new to wing chun

[matsu]

evening guys.
i have just started wing chun under sifu tony and master james sinclair at their headquartes in essex england.things are going well so far.... i think:)
having done both shotokan and ishinryu karate for nearly 10 yrs i am not sure wether it is andvantage or not having previous knowledge.
so any advice members have will be handy.
i am borderline ocd with anything i do so the science and body mechanics of wing chun facinate me. i have a few dvds and books and am very confused with the differences coming thru via different schools of thought anf forms etc.
i believe i have found the best school around my area and my sifu is particualrly patient with me for which i am grateful.
i get my wall bag monday yay!!!
please- any help muchly appreciated.
matsu
england

[Frost]

Hello and welcome to the world of wing chun. There are som many different perspectives and ideas that float around I can understand the confusion that you are going experiencing. What kind of questions do you have? I'll do my best to help you if I can.

[matsu]

thanks bud.
i am having a lot of trouble just getting me head into the differnce stance and body shapes used in wing chun. ridiculous because when explained it is pure simplicity but the years of structured training is making it troublsome.
last nite we were retreating with a block using the forearm- i am sorry my terminolgy is non existent at present
is there somewhere that logs all the basic terms i can use to memorise?

the other question is mostly about lineage and how the diff schools have evolved..... for now
lol
i am sure i will try to use the wealth of experience

thanks for the early input.
matsu

[geezer]

i am borderline ocd with anything i do so the science and body mechanics of wing chun facinate me. i have a few dvds and books and am very confused with the differences coming thru via different schools of thought anf forms etc.
matsu
england

Borderline ocd??? Well you've come to the right place. Wing Chun will certainly keep you occupied! I would suggest that for now, don't worry about the differences between the various branches of WC/WT. Just focus on getting really good at what your Sifu teaches you. Good luck!

[CuongNhuka]

I train in Wing Chun and Cuong Nhu, which is heavily Shotokan, it is a bit of a double edged sword. On the one hand, you do have prior training, so you are less likely to just retreat when attacked in Chi Sao. On the other hand, you might have a hard time reacting appropriately in Chi Sao.

Have fun!

[dungeonworks]

thanks bud.
i am having a lot of trouble just getting me head into the differnce stance and body shapes used in wing chun. ridiculous because when explained it is pure simplicity but the years of structured training is making it troublsome.
last nite we were retreating with a block using the forearm- i am sorry my terminolgy is non existent at present
is there somewhere that logs all the basic terms i can use to memorise?

the other question is mostly about lineage and how the diff schools have evolved..... for now
lol
i am sure i will try to use the wealth of experience

thanks for the early input.
matsu

Matsu,

I am in the same boat and gave been doing Wing Chun now for 2 months. My background is mainly Koei-Kan-Karate-Do, Kickboxing (American rules), and Tae Kwon Do so I do feel your pain. I am solely training Wing Chun (Ip Man>Ip Ching>Garner Train) right now and will do so untill I feel comfortable with the new structure and striking I am learning. It is sooooo much different!

Gary

[geezer]

I train in Wing Chun and Cuong Nhu, which is heavily Shotokan, it is a bit of a double edged sword.

I really don't want to get off topic... but Wing Chun and Shotokan? That sounds like a bit of a paradox. I usually think of Shotokan as being very hard, with long stances, hard blocks and "one-punch kill" philosophy. WC is flexible, yielding, has narrow stances and stresses rapid, multiple-striking attacks, like chain punching. How do you handle these apparent contradictions?

[OnlyAnEgg]

Welcome to Martial Talk!

[CuongNhuka]

I really don't want to get off topic... but Wing Chun and Shotokan? That sounds like a bit of a paradox. I usually think of Shotokan as being very hard, with long stances, hard blocks and "one-punch kill" philosophy. WC is flexible, yielding, has narrow stances and stresses rapid, multiple-striking attacks, like chain punching. How do you handle these apparent contradictions?

Simple. I let what comes out, come out. Many techniques from Shotokan, can be altered slightly so as to blend with Wing Chun, and vice versa.

[Trueblood]

...having done both shotokan and ishinryu karate for nearly 10 yrs i am not sure wether it is andvantage or not having previous knowledge.
so any advice members have will be handy.


For what it's worth, I started training in Wing Chun after around nine years training in other arts. I think that, on balance, it's more than likely going to be an advantage. You'll need to break some old habits, but you've probably practiced movements that are similar enough to what you'll see in WC that you'll pick them up a little more easily.

You might also be able to integrate some of your other techniques in to your current training, which can be fun.

Cheers,
Trueblood

[Frost]

I trained in different arts before I started my Fut Sao Wing Chun training. I find that it helps to not make you an insular fighter.

By insular I mean that sometimes people get used to sparring with someone that only does Wing Chun. As a result, they get good at fighting their own style. For example, let's face it, we throw centerline punches, and not too many other arts focus on it as much as wing chun does. If you only practice defending against that, you are going to have a hard time with other types of attacks.

Having had prior training allows one to be more conscious about the variations that may occur in a fight.

[tenth1]

welcome to wing chun, have fun

[matsu]

thanks guys
i will fire some questions as and when i need to.
i,m not sure i,ll,be of any help to anyone else for a while..............mmmmmm at least a decade lol!

matsu

[brocklee]

For what it's worth, I started training in Wing Chun after around nine years training in other arts. I think that, on balance, it's more than likely going to be an advantage. You'll need to break some old habits, but you've probably practiced movements that are similar enough to what you'll see in WC that you'll pick them up a little more easily.

You might also be able to integrate some of your other techniques in to your current training, which can be fun.

Cheers,
Trueblood

In my experience, knowing other styles made it even tougher for me to pick up WC properly. When I transitioned from WT to WC I had problems getting rid of, what I like to call now, bad habits. I believe the benefit to knowing another style is that you have better body control.

Other then that, WELCOME to WC!!! :D

Once you get hooked, you'll use its concepts in everyday situations.

[qwksilver61]

Rotsa Ruck!

[matsu]

thanks guys.
i seem to have developed some very "bad habits" lol
and having been away from martial arts for a few yrs and weight traininh heavily seems to have set my body to stone- i cant seem to get that flexibility and flow moving again... but its only been a few months and at my age(;) i cant afford to rush it!

thanks again
i,ll be in touch.
matsu

[brocklee]

Rotsa Ruck!

HAHAHAHA

[brocklee]

thanks guys.
i seem to have developed some very "bad habits" lol
and having been away from martial arts for a few yrs and weight traininh heavily seems to have set my body to stone- i cant seem to get that flexibility and flow moving again... but its only been a few months and at my age(;) i cant afford to rush it!

thanks again
i,ll be in touch.
matsu

Yeah, weight training heavily and WC don't really mix. Muscle mass adds resistance to your relaxed punch, causing you to have to swing around the muscle. There's a guy that does a demo on youtube and he looks silly and doesn't appear to apply the concept, but does have the moves down. If I we're him I would have taken up ba qua (sp?) or something with a bit larger movements. jmo

[matsu]

god i hope i dont look that bad.
i have always had trouble relaxing my shoulders and breathing right.
karate suited me in that aspect but i cannot do high kicks and the impacting techniques now with hip and low back injuries anymore so i felt wing chun would suit me.

ive been upto 19stone at 6ft2".
am down to 16 and half.
lots of cardio and low carb diet to get me to under 16.
i hope i can get over this obvious "problem"

thanks again
matsu. x

[dungeonworks]

How many pounds (lbs.) are in one stone? Isn't it like 8 lbs. or something???

[matsu]

fourteen i think!

i read in our crossed threads post you did isshinryu karate. is that any connection to the ishin ryu that sensei ticky donovan developed?

matsu

[dungeonworks]

fourteen i think!

i read in our crossed threads post you did isshinryu karate. is that any connection to the ishin ryu that sensei ticky donovan developed?

matsu

Matsu, I did Koei-Kan-Karate-Do founded by Eizo Onishi (http://www.koei-kan.com/KanchoEizoOnishi.aspx) (link). It has some Isshinryu influences I am told but I never trained in the style itself. I was referring to the only styles around my town when I was young and starting. The only schools within my reach to train at back then were Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, Ishinryu, and Koei-Kan. I started in TKD and then switched to Koeikan-Karate-Do under Sensei Inasio Anzures for about 6 yrs. I started after he broke away from the Koei-Kan group so the Koei-Kan I learned was a little different in the way of tighter stances and increased footwork. Sensei was a kickboxer and thus a lot of our sparring was heavily influenced in that respect as well as boxing influenced. We still did Bogu sparring (full contact karate with bogu helmet) and the katas in the Koei-kan system, but kickboxing was where my heart was at so naturally I really focused on it. Koei-Kan is a great system of karate in my opinion and it has worked for me in a few situations, specifically the throws which are from Judo and especially my striking I learned there. It worked well for my body type 5'10" 205 lbs (back then!!! :burp:). Now, a shoulder injury, 25 lbs, and a few yrs older, Wing Chun is filling in the gaps and arming me with things an aging body can handle more adequately than Koei-Kan/Kickboxing did in my 20's. I did like Tae Kwon Do too and I still to this day appreciate the value of their kicking techniques, but as a style by itself, I feel my agility is not where it should be to get the most from it or as much as I could as younger guy.

For the most part, I feel some styles are just better suited for specific builds and athletic levels, and that is just my opinion. My attitude is that of a life long student and I think most every style has at least something to gain from it but the practitioner will thrive most in a style that physical attributes and athletic ability as well as natural tendencies/instincts fit the style. I think their is a style for each of us and we just need to find it. I really like what I am seeing and learning so far in Wing Chun and my training group is a mix of some very good people to be around, not unlike my Koei-Kan days.

Later Matsu
Gary

[matsu]

thnaks gary for taking the time to answer.
thats a very mixed bag of tricks you carry with you.
the ishin ryu i started with was under sensei simon kidd and sensei ticky donovan who i believed developed it as a pure competition fighting style.
ticky donovan was a prolific fighter and he was part of the english team that beat japan on their own soil. he then managed the british team for amny yrs and was hugely successful.
i stopped thru injury and work commitments.but loved the constant sparring aspect.
then i started shotkan a few yrs later back to white belt and graded thru to brown belt. but i was never gonna make black belt my hips and low back would never let me be as dynamic or controlled in my high kicks as needed to be.
i can get the high kick even now but its a single technique i cannot recover from quickly enough to repeat or change to another successfully.
i also missed the sparring as we didnt do that much,probably only as a competition approached. weird tho as one of the instructors was a devastating competitive fighter!
i too love watching tkd for its kicks but i think i have found the thing for me.
i just hope i can do wing chun justice. i love it and it has become a very dominant aspect in my everyday thinking.
and every spare sec at work sees me doing something in mini practice,mush to my co workers abuse and mickey taking.
i am trying to read and watch everything i can but as the lineage changes and the styles vary from club to club it is confusing at times.
again thank you for your input.
matsu

[KamonGuy2]

Getting a bit back to topic.....

The two styles (karate and wing chun) have always been considered as two sides of the coin

One is a hard style
One is a soft relaxed style

Yet what people miss is that together, they compliment very well
They allow people to develop both hard and soft energy. Fight both long and short range. And develop all the muscles in your body

If you are just a soft fighter, you will get stuck
If you are just a hard fighter, you will get stuck

It is nice to have both ways of fighting under your belt

Bruce Lee started exploring this towards the end of his life

[dungeonworks]

thnaks gary for taking the time to answer.
thats a very mixed bag of tricks you carry with you.
the ishin ryu i started with was under sensei simon kidd and sensei ticky donovan who i believed developed it as a pure competition fighting style.
ticky donovan was a prolific fighter and he was part of the english team that beat japan on their own soil. he then managed the british team for amny yrs and was hugely successful.
i stopped thru injury and work commitments.but loved the constant sparring aspect.
then i started shotkan a few yrs later back to white belt and graded thru to brown belt. but i was never gonna make black belt my hips and low back would never let me be as dynamic or controlled in my high kicks as needed to be.
i can get the high kick even now but its a single technique i cannot recover from quickly enough to repeat or change to another successfully.
i also missed the sparring as we didnt do that much,probably only as a competition approached. weird tho as one of the instructors was a devastating competitive fighter!
i too love watching tkd for its kicks but i think i have found the thing for me.
i just hope i can do wing chun justice. i love it and it has become a very dominant aspect in my everyday thinking.
and every spare sec at work sees me doing something in mini practice,mush to my co workers abuse and mickey taking.
i am trying to read and watch everything i can but as the lineage changes and the styles vary from club to club it is confusing at times.
again thank you for your input.
matsu

The Isshinryu I mentioned was the traditional Okinawan style. Sounds like we're on the same road Matsu. It is fast becoming an addiction for me and I too have my past Karate work around to learn Wing Chun....especially the "reeelaaaaax" part or it. If I had a dime for every time I hear that in class! :D

[dungeonworks]

Getting a bit back to topic.....

The two styles (karate and wing chun) have always been considered as two sides of the coin

One is a hard style
One is a soft relaxed style

Yet what people miss is that together, they compliment very well
They allow people to develop both hard and soft energy. Fight both long and short range. And develop all the muscles in your body

If you are just a soft fighter, you will get stuck
If you are just a hard fighter, you will get stuck

It is nice to have both ways of fighting under your belt

Bruce Lee started exploring this towards the end of his life

Very well put Kamon Guy. My Sifu is of the same opinion and that is exactly the mind frame I am in. I have no intention of cross training outside of Wing Chun until I can dial in my structure and become more fluid in it. Between that and doing 2-3 things at once, my work is cut out for me so to speak.

[LoneRider]

evening guys.
i have just started wing chun under sifu tony and master james sinclair at their headquartes in essex england.things are going well so far.... i think:)
having done both shotokan and ishinryu karate for nearly 10 yrs i am not sure wether it is andvantage or not having previous knowledge.
so any advice members have will be handy.
i am borderline ocd with anything i do so the science and body mechanics of wing chun facinate me. i have a few dvds and books and am very confused with the differences coming thru via different schools of thought anf forms etc.
i believe i have found the best school around my area and my sifu is particualrly patient with me for which i am grateful.
i get my wall bag monday yay!!!
please- any help muchly appreciated.
matsu
england

Well previous experience can be both helpful and hurtful. My line of Wing Chun is from Yip Man's line and my previous Martial Arts experience (on this post: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62330) helped in the conditioning area, and how to counter various styles out there. It was a little problematic at first because there were quite a few concepts that were a little foreign to me. At the time I first started Wing Chun (2.5 years ago) I had recently had two years of Western Boxing under my belt. Some of my bad habits included elbow distance too close and lapsing into old sport boxing habits.

Anything from Yip Man's line of Wing Chun are the best books to read. But as you get better founded in your art, be sure to research other arts and other systems others may use against you in a fight.

Regards,

Lone Rider

[Just Tel]

I'm in the same boat too. Done nigh on 20 years of Shotokan and then Goju before branching out. When WC found me I struggled with it to say the least, not the moves they were easy to learn it was the drills, the sensitivity and the changing energies. Unfortunately my WC instructor does not teach me anymore and I am left with just the moves yet it is the sensitivity and energy control that I really wanted to master and the only way I can see to do this is with a knowledgeable partner.

With your previous knowledge I just think it allows you to make your WC more your own.

[matsu]

thanks for the comments.
i am finding the movements ok to get but i do it in the wrong way...too long step on my toes too much etc.
it will come good... in time !
matsu