the Best of the Best?

[Jas0n]

Is there anyone who can be considered the Best Martial Artist of all time? Is there somone alive now who is considered to be the best living?

No arguing, No flames, just curious...

[A.R.K.]

I think you might need to break it down into categories. Best in the ring. Best in forms. Best in 'street fighting'. Best in techniques etc

I personally like the way Bruce Lee was heading in regards to not teaching specific techniques but what worked for the user. I liked the direction he was going.

I DO NOT like the way they butchered 'Game of Death'.

This should be an interesting thread. :)

[DAC..florida]

Deciding the best of all time! I dont feel anyone here is qualified to accurately judge this but......In my opinion I always liked what "superfoot" could do with his legs.

I also agree with Zhao dai Weh about bruce lee!

TRAINING HARD BREEDS WARRIORS.....

[sweeper]

what do you mean by "not teaching specific techniques but what worked for the user. " ? Bruce lee altered technique per individual? Like he altered the biomechanical motion? Or do you mean he taught diffrent stuff to diffrent people based on their aptitude and physical peramiters?

[Kirk]

Being a kenpoist, I gotta chime in for the man, Ed Parker. Not
only is he responsible for Bruce Lee's acting career, he's
responsible for many ma-ists career. His art was a strong gift to
the world, as well as his leadership, and his promotion of martial
arts in "the western world" via his IKC tournaments. His influence
in the martial arts community in American and abroad is still felt.

[Jas0n]

Originally posted by Kirk
Being a kenpoist, I gotta chime in for the man, Ed Parker. Not
only is he responsible for Bruce Lee's acting career, he's
responsible for many ma-ists career. His art was a strong gift to
the world, as well as his leadership, and his promotion of martial
arts in "the western world" via his IKC tournaments. His influence
in the martial arts community in American and abroad is still felt. I Wonder how he would have done against Bruce Lee?

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Jas0n
I Wonder how he would have done against Bruce Lee?


They trained together, and shared ideas together. Bruce stayed
at Mr Parker's home for a period of time as well. They have both
publicly stated their extreme respect for each other. Many of
Bruce Lee's students left JKD to study Kenpo .. and many of Mr
Parker's black belts left kenpo to go study with Bruce. Dan
Inosanto being the most famous, probably. He was a Parker
black belt, and then went and studied with Bruce Lee. Although
keeping a good relationship with Mr Parker.

As to how he would've done .. no idea.

[Shinobi]

Ashida Kim

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Shinobi
Ashida Kim
Bah, Count Dante by far! He has the title of World's Deadliest Man ever!

[Shinobi]

Dante ph33rs Frank Dux! :D

[Jas0n]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Bah, Count Dante by far! He has the title of World's Deadliest Man ever! Is this a joke?
I went to a website of his and he seems like a Circus freak to me...

[Samurai]

Frank Dux, Ashida Kim, and Count Dante are jokes.

Great...now I am no Ashida Kims ***** List. I need to watch my back for the Astrological Ninja Attacks.

[Shinobi]

Yes, yes you do. I am his hired Assassin ya know.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Jas0n
Is this a joke?
I went to a website of his and he seems like a Circus freak to me...

haha...:rofl: don't worry man...it's a joke...and a pretty funny one at that.

[Shinobi]

Count Dante is muh hero!

[fist of fury]

Don Knotts

[Shinobi]

Gomer Pyle

[D.Cobb]

What about Gilby? He wrote books about some pretty damn unbelievable martial arts from all around the world. I'm not sure if his first name was John or Frank.

He claims he used to take his students to a redneck bar somewhere and cause one of the local good ol' boys to get real mad with the student. It was then up to the student to diffuse the situation orally rather than fistfully. If he failed to do so, he failed his black belt test.

:rofl:

--Dave

[Nightingale]

hehe. somebody give me some serious answers other than Ed Parker, Ashida Kim and Bruce Lee... I'm gonna post a poll on this. interesting topic.

[Johnathan Napalm]

Mas Oyama, founder of KyoKuShin Karate.

[Chronuss]

I respect Bruce for what he contributed to the knowledge of the human body and the mechanics of motion. again, Mr. Parker for his theories of motion and conservation of motion and wasted energy in motion. as said before, both men studies together and respected one another for their contributions to the Arts and their ideas. I also like Chuck Norris and Dolph Lundgren. and considering Mr. Norris is nearing his seventies, the man is in better shape than I am he's fifty years my senior, and he could still kick my butt with his pinky toe.

[Johnathan Napalm]

Dolph Lundgren? What is he good for?

[Infight]

Hey, Bruce Lee? HAHAHA, you must be kidding me, chinese colonization did not well to US, what the hell you think martial art is, thats the first point, a movie? a builder of character and body?
a self defense martial art?
Well to me, the best art martialist is called Rickson Gracie, hes a dedicated guy, unbeated till today, dunoo starred movies, but fought alot and never lost ( in real life ), control his diet, has a great character, perfect health and body, and has a great knowledge of how a fight must go on.
Now you gonna say that skinny, without nutrition, light, and KUNG FU FIGHTER is a good Martial Artist, cmon! Even i can beat him, he cant beat even Weeping Goldberg!

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Infight
Hey, Bruce Lee? HAHAHA, you must be kidding me, chinese colonization did not well to US, what the hell you think martial art is, thats the first point, a movie? a builder of character and body?
a self defense martial art?
Well to me, the best art martialist is called Rickson Gracie, hes a dedicated guy, unbeated till today, dunoo starred movies, but fought alot and never lost ( in real life ), control his diet, has a great character, perfect health and body, and has a great knowledge of how a fight must go on.
Now you gonna say that skinny, without nutrition, light, and KUNG FU FIGHTER is a good Martial Artist, cmon! Even i can beat him, he cant beat even Weeping Goldberg!

I understand where your coming from. In Brasil "the fight game" is differant than here. I've spent a lot of time with pure BJJ stylist so it is really easy for me to almost picture what you say.

But at the same time, my Sifus father was a student of Bruce Lee in Oakland. He is in his mid to late '60's and he is still bad.

You also have to consider what the state of the martials were in America when Bruce was alive. His theories on technique was advanced for that day. It may have been a bit differant if Helio came to America at that time. But Bruce would of embraced it and learned all he could. That is a true martial artist!

Not many people can truthfully say that in those days thet were doing what he was. The movies were not his actual technique although he did work it in more and more as he became more valuable to the movie buisness.

But I think the question refers to the best martial artist ever. In submisson I would say Rickson as an instructor there are so many so I will go to my upline Bruce (which is obviously biased) but THE BEST ACTIVE FIGHTER IS ROY JONES JR.!!

That really is a hard one to nail it down to just one!

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Jas0n
I Wonder how he would have done against Bruce Lee? You guys must never have heard the story when Mr> Parker allowed Bruce Lee to stay with him and how they exchanged ideas. Bruce after some time became arrogant and argued with Mr Parker who told him to leave. Bruce challenged Mr. Parker in front of his house. One thing you guys need to know is that Mr. Parker was a deadly street fighter and since there are no rules in street fighting.......guess what happened? Bruce came at him and Mr. Parker locked him up and dropped him on his head. You see the longer you train you realize Mr. Parker also added jujitsu to the kenpo arsenal. This story was told to us at the Conatser seminar last year in Scottsdale by the only witness to the fight.

[Ronin]

The longer you are in the MA the more dirt you uncover.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Ronin
This story was told to us at the Conatser seminar last year in Scottsdale by the only witness to the fight.

And that was ... ?

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Ronin
You see the longer you train you realize Mr. Parker also added jujitsu to the kenpo arsenal.

Well, long before it was known as Kenpo Karate, it was called Kenpo Jutsu. It originally had all that stuff in it. From what I've heard Mr. Parker dropped it from the syllabus because it conflicted with the principles and concepts required to make Kenpo such an effective 'multiple opponent art'.

Also, didn't Mr. Parker hold Dan ranking in JuJutsu, before he studied Kenpo?

--Dave

:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
Well, long before it was known as Kenpo Karate, it was called Kenpo Jutsu. It originally had all that stuff in it. From what I've heard Mr. Parker dropped it from the syllabus because it conflicted with the principles and concepts required to make Kenpo such an effective 'multiple opponent art'.

Also, didn't Mr. Parker hold Dan ranking in JuJutsu, before he studied Kenpo?

--Dave

:asian:

Kirks got the copy of the certificate if you want to see it, he will post it again, I'm sure.

Mitose called it Kenpo Jiu Jitsu.

The Kenpo Jutsu I think is another lineage.

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Ronin
You guys must never have heard the story when Mr> Parker allowed Bruce Lee to stay with him and how they exchanged ideas. Bruce after some time became arrogant and argued with Mr Parker who told him to leave. Bruce challenged Mr. Parker in front of his house. One thing you guys need to know is that Mr. Parker was a deadly street fighter and since there are no rules in street fighting.......guess what happened? Bruce came at him and Mr. Parker locked him up and dropped him on his head. You see the longer you train you realize Mr. Parker also added jujitsu to the kenpo arsenal. This story was told to us at the Conatser seminar last year in Scottsdale by the only witness to the fight.

Isn't the line "....fighting has no rule..", one of B Lee's favourite lines too? How could he got fouled up in this?

I really hate this type of hearsay where all the parties are long dead, and now you have this dude," the only witness to XYZ whatever". LOL it is practically a license to BS.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Isn't the line "....fighting has no rule..", one of B Lee's favourite lines too? How could he got fouled up in this?

I really hate this type of hearsay where all the parties are long dead, and now you have this dude," the only witness to XYZ whatever". LOL it is practically a license to BS.

Yea, well, 1 of my Sensei beat both of them.:D

[Johnathan Napalm]

Yeah, and who can argue otherwise! If anyone has any doubt, they can go ask Parker and Lee! lol

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Yeah, and who can argue otherwise! If anyone has any doubt, they can go ask Parker and Lee! lol

I did, they told me in my dreams.:D

[Kroy]

Helio Gracie (and this is coming from a kenpo man). Not just for what he did for BJJ. But by changing the way most martial artist in North America train now.:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Kroy
Helio Gracie (and this is coming from a kenpo man). Not just for what he did for BJJ. But by changing the way most martial artist in North America train now.:asian:

Most people in North America are training differant now?:D

[silencethehero]

Prof. Moses Powell is the best living today.

[Kroy]

Yes, many martial artist have begun to add grappling to their training due to the popularity of BJJ in the UFC.

[silencethehero]

"Granpa Lee?
Hey, Bruce Lee? HAHAHA, you must be kidding me, chinese colonization did not well to US, what the hell you think martial art is, thats the first point, a movie? a builder of character and body?
a self defense martial art?
Well to me, the best art martialist is called Rickson Gracie, hes a dedicated guy, unbeated till today, dunoo starred movies, but fought alot and never lost ( in real life ), control his diet, has a great character, perfect health and body, and has a great knowledge of how a fight must go on.
Now you gonna say that skinny, without nutrition, light, and KUNG FU FIGHTER is a good Martial Artist, cmon! Even i can beat him, he cant beat even Weeping Goldberg!"

The US was very fortunate that the Chinese came here. We've been blessed with many constructive things from them. That's like saying Brazil suffered from their exposure to the Japanese. Let's be realistic, without the Japanese there would be no Brazillian JJ.

Rickson is very good at BJJ. I respect him for that. However, there are martial artists out there who don't deem in necessary to flaunt their skills, bet on fights, have public challenges or enter octogons. Bruce Lee's diet was awesome and his work ethic unmatched. He trained 7 days a week for 5 hours a day. Being skinny has nothing to do with your ability to fight. Look at the size of some of the guys Rickson has beaten. He isn't a very big guy at all.

When it comes down to it though, BJJ isn't really Jujutsu now is it. Shouldn't it be called Brazillian Wrestling or Brazillian Submission Techniques? Who did the marketing for it anyway?

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by silencethehero
"Granpa Lee?
Hey, Bruce Lee? HAHAHA, you must be kidding me, chinese colonization did not well to US, what the hell you think martial art is, thats the first point, a movie? a builder of character and body?
a self defense martial art?
Well to me, the best art martialist is called Rickson Gracie, hes a dedicated guy, unbeated till today, dunoo starred movies, but fought alot and never lost ( in real life ), control his diet, has a great character, perfect health and body, and has a great knowledge of how a fight must go on.
Now you gonna say that skinny, without nutrition, light, and KUNG FU FIGHTER is a good Martial Artist, cmon! Even i can beat him, he cant beat even Weeping Goldberg!"

The US was very fortunate that the Chinese came here. We've been blessed with many constructive things from them. That's like saying Brazil suffered from their exposure to the Japanese. Let's be realistic, without the Japanese there would be no Brazillian JJ.

Rickson is very good at BJJ. I respect him for that. However, there are martial artists out there who don't deem in necessary to flaunt their skills, bet on fights, have public challenges or enter octogons. Bruce Lee's diet was awesome and his work ethic unmatched. He trained 7 days a week for 5 hours a day. Being skinny has nothing to do with your ability to fight. Look at the size of some of the guys Rickson has beaten. He isn't a very big guy at all.

When it comes down to it though, BJJ isn't really Jujutsu now is it. Shouldn't it be called Brazillian Wrestling or Brazillian Submission Techniques? Who did the marketing for it anyway?

Yo, silencethehero, when you want to quote someone just click the quote button on the bottom right corner, its right above the reply button. It first that I thought that was your quote but as I was reading it it sounded like I already read it before.:D

BJJ evolved the way it did because the way it was "tested" and modified to meet the needs.

But if you want a practice some good grappling, blend Traditional Jujutsu with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. You'll see things from a new light.:asian:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Isn't the line "....fighting has no rule..", one of B Lee's favourite lines too? How could he got fouled up in this?

I really hate this type of hearsay where all the parties are long dead, and now you have this dude," the only witness to XYZ whatever". LOL it is practically a license to BS.
I agree, it doesn't sound right to me. Ed Parker still talked good of Lee after Lee's death.

[MartialArtist]

I do like Rickson, although I would not consider him the best. Rickson is very skilled, and very talented, and he's more open to new ideas. He isn't arrogant about his style on how his style is better than this and that unlike Royce.

[silencethehero]

Originally posted by akja
Yo, silencethehero, when you want to quote someone just click the quote button on the bottom right corner, its right above the reply button. It first that I thought that was your quote but as I was reading it it sounded like I already read it before.:D

BJJ evolved the way it did because the way it was "tested" and modified to meet the needs.

But if you want a practice some good grappling, blend Traditional Jujutsu with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. You'll see things from a new light.:asian:

Thank you for the tip.

[rmcrobertson]

So--y'all equate being the best martial artist with being the best fighter? Interesting.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Ronin
You guys must never have heard the story when Mr> Parker allowed Bruce Lee to stay with him and how they exchanged ideas. Bruce after some time became arrogant and argued with Mr Parker who told him to leave. Bruce challenged Mr. Parker in front of his house. One thing you guys need to know is that Mr. Parker was a deadly street fighter and since there are no rules in street fighting.......guess what happened? Bruce came at him and Mr. Parker locked him up and dropped him on his head. You see the longer you train you realize Mr. Parker also added jujitsu to the kenpo arsenal. This story was told to us at the Conatser seminar last year in Scottsdale by the only witness to the fight.


I've only just really started reading this thread and that story is pretty annoying. BECAUSE Bruce Lee is considered by many to be the BEST all that is saying to me is "Yeah Bruce Lee got rude, But our founder, He whupped his ass so he must be the best!".

Not a very good story for the point your making :asian:

Says the man with the Pink Belt :shrug:

[lonekimono]

is there anyone out here who was alive when dante was around ?i know i was, anyway the man is dead because of the dojo wars back then.



yours in kenpo:asian:

[Kroy]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I've only just really started reading this thread and that story is pretty annoying. BECAUSE Bruce Lee is considered by many to be the BEST all that is saying to me is "Yeah Bruce Lee got rude, But our founder, He whupped his ass so he must be the best!".

Not a very good story for the point your making :asian:

Says the man with the Pink Belt :shrug:



So how does one obtain a PINK belt?

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Kroy
So how does one obtain a PINK belt?
You have to spam your way to 2000+ posts and prove yourself in the art of spam, then I might award you one young grasshopper.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
You have to spam your way to 2000+ posts and prove yourself in the art of spam, then I might award you one young grasshopper.


I hope for your sake your not implying I spam :shrug:

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I hope for your sake your not implying I spam :shrug:
Implying????
Hell No, he just came right out and said it! Damn you're slow today....

--Dave

:rofl: :rofl:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I hope for your sake your not implying I spam :shrug:
I'm the master here, and I'm not awarding you a pink belt because you dared to practice in another art and not solely my art. My art is ultimate, so I don't know what you were thinking but you were expelled from my school long ago. Don't give any secrets or I'll have to kill you. For my sake? Please, you couldn't even defeat my super secret ninjas nonetheless take on the ultimate one... Me.

[The Psycho Guy]

Well, I have no idea, but here's my Top Ten of all time.

1. Masaaki Hatsumi
2. Miyamoto Musashi
3. Yang Lu-Chan
4. Alexander the Great
5. Ed Parker
6. Wong Fei Hung
7. Hattori Hanzo
8. Masutatsu Oyama
9. Gichin Funakoshi
10. Jigoro Kano

Those are the best that I can think of off the top of my head. Bruce wasn't on there because I don't hold him up that high. I'm sure he was great, but he was no master (in my opinion). And that attitude:shrug: ! Anyway, that's my input for now.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
I'm the master here, and I'm not awarding you a pink belt because you dared to practice in another art and not solely my art. My art is ultimate, so I don't know what you were thinking but you were expelled from my school long ago. Don't give any secrets or I'll have to kill you. For my sake? Please, you couldn't even defeat my super secret ninjas nonetheless take on the ultimate one... Me.

Well.......when you put it like that :asian:

[roryneil]

This is not a popular opinion but I don't see the evidence of Bruce Lee being a great fighter other than people just saying it is so. Looks good on films but so can Jean Claude.
Another person who should be mentioned is Chuck Norris. Not flashy but he always won.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by roryneil
This is not a popular opinion but I don't see the evidence of Bruce Lee being a great fighter other than people just saying it is so. Looks good on films but so can Jean Claude.
Another person who should be mentioned is Chuck Norris. Not flashy but he always won.


Watch some tournys :asian:

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu
I think you might need to break it down into categories. Best in the ring. Best in forms. Best in 'street fighting'. Best in techniques etc

I personally like the way Bruce Lee was heading in regards to not teaching specific techniques but what worked for the user. I liked the direction he was going.

I DO NOT like the way they butchered 'Game of Death'.

This should be an interesting thread. :)

I don't know if anyone has said this or not as i'm couldn't be bothered reading 52 posts. At the time of Bruce Lees death he was moving more towards being a movie star and less in the martial arts so it is very hard to say whether his art would have gone to massive heights with him around or if he would have just left the name to someone like Dan Inosanto to develop. Who know's
Cheers
Sammy

Cheers
Sammy

[lonekimono]

BULLSH#@ MR HANDMAN, DON'T WAST YOURSELF,

ARE YOU ALONG?(whatever he says)
what style are you? you can say that my style is the art of fighting without fighting, show me,

boy when i here of Lee,, anyway got to go batman is coming on tv land.

yours in kenpo

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by lonekimono
BULLSH#@ MR HANDMAN, DON'T WAST YOURSELF,

ARE YOU ALONG?(whatever he says)
what style are you? you can say that my style is the art of fighting without fighting, show me,

boy when i here of Lee,, anyway got to go batman is coming on tv land.

yours in kenpo


After long and careful consideration......I have come to the conclusion that you are CRAZY!!!!! :erg:

[lonekimono]

OK but look joe,you and i have alot in common,i love to eat and you love to cook:D
about the crazt part? well it's only on sundays:confused:


yours in kenpo

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by lonekimono
OK but look joe,you and i have alot in common,i love to eat and you love to cook:D
about the crazt part? well it's only on sundays:confused:


yours in kenpo


Well someones been looking in my profile :p And its all the Chocolate :D

[lonekimono]

could you just see if we all were in the same dojo\dojang\kwoon\
should i keep going? :o anyway we all would have alot fun.
you would hit me,i would lose it AND THAN I WOULD GO CRAZY:eek: :eek: :eek: but i don't train on sundays, only if i get paid lol


yours in kenpo:asian:

[Master of Blades]

Didnt understand a word you just said but lets just leave at the fact that your happy and I'm happy. :D

Now lets get this thread on track :asian:

[lonekimono]

just having fun blades, try to stay with me:p

ok now it's your turn:confused:

yours in kenpo

[Kope]

Is there anyone who can be considered the Best Martial Artist of all time? Is there somone alive now who is considered to be the best living?

Considering that none of us have seen any of the great martial artists that preceeded us all by centuries, it's a rather foolish question.

The fact that many of the answers given here focus on people who are as celebrated for their media presence as for anything else goes a long way to demonstrating how narrowly we understand our own heritage.

I would guess that the greatest living martial artist is probably some dedicated student of someone like TT Liang who is too busy being good at what they do, and hopefully passing it on to others, to worry with celebrity and being on the cover of the latest MA rag.

I would guess that the greatest martial artist of all time was probably some monk no one has ever heard of practicing in some out of the way temple who had enough humility to recognize that he still had more to learn.

All that are guesses. What I know is that no one mentioned in this thread is the proper answer.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Kope


I would guess that the greatest martial artist of all time was probably some monk no one has ever heard of practicing in some out of the way temple who had enough humility to recognize that he still had more to learn.



Was? Or IS? ;)



Originally posted by Kope


All that are guesses. What I know is that no one mentioned in this thread is the proper answer.



Actually you DONT know.....As you said we will never be able to tell so it very well might be Bruce Lee......Or as you said some Hidden Monk who is too busy giving to take anything. But as with Love, it is all within the Eye of the Beholder :asian: