should new systems be regulated

[James Kovacich]

Martial arts have been in America long enough for the new systems to be sprouting up, as they are.

Should there be a standard, or maybe regulation.?
Explain.

[Master of Blades]

Regulation.......Nice idea but I doubt it would work :shrug:

Standard......A little better but whos to say who sets the standard?

Its a nice idea but I doubt it would work...:asian:

[Blindside]

No, there is no standard for the "old" arts, how can you set up a standard for the new? You have a product that essentially cannot be tested under rigorous conditions (unless it is a sport), so you cannot establish any outside standard of good or bad.

Reinstating challenge matches as the standard of quality would do alot to improve the situation, but that won't fly in good ol' litigious USA.

Let the buyer beware,

Lamont

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
Regulation.......Nice idea but I doubt it would work :shrug:

Standard......A little better but whos to say who sets the standard?

Its a nice idea but I doubt it would work...:asian:

you stole my answers

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Blindside
No, there is no standard for the "old" arts, how can you set up a standard for the new?

And there it is in a nutshell.
Who is and who isn’t qualified to teach.
This has been and always will be a problem in the arts. I remember reading about this problem in an article that was about sword schools 300 years ago. Seems it was a problem back then as well.

Also, the more arts I am exposed to the more I realize there is no such thing as “new arts”.
I can usually find any “new art’s” technique in some old art.

[James Kovacich]

Thats what I say, we create new training methods at most. New techniques, not likely!

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
Thats what I say, we create new training methods at most. New techniques, not likely!

What training methods do you use presently?

[James Kovacich]

The short version.

It boils down to being effiecient in all fighting ranges. Some ranges you will be better than others, thats OK as long as you have at minimum an understanding of all ranges and excel in some. To gain an understanding of all ranges, they must be practicing separately in order to get that deeper understanding while also practiced together to develop the flow from range to range.

I'll give some better examples later tonite.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
The short version.

It boils down to being effiecient in all fighting ranges. Some ranges you will be better than others, thats OK as long as you have at minimum an understanding of all ranges and excel in some. To gain an understanding of all ranges, they must be practicing separately in order to get that deeper understanding while also practiced together to develop the flow from range to range.

I'll give some better examples later tonite.


That's what we "traditionalists" do know and have done for a long time.
How is yours different?

[jfarnsworth]

I don't think there's anyway you could regulate a new art. If someone wants to make up something then my hat's off to them for trying. Unfortunately for that individual it would be a long struggle to make it get off of the ground and then keep it alive. Techniques have been thousands of years old, all we do is a variation of each.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Techniques have been thousands of years old, all we do is a variation of each.

I agree.
If not the exact same technique.

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
If not the exact same technique.

Absolutely, now your talking. :)

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
That's what we "traditionalists" do know and have done for a long time.
How is yours different?

I've seen alot of systems out there but I haven't seen any "traditional" systems cover all ranges effectively, at all.

This is becoming personal. Thats an out right lie to say you've trained that way all along. I've been to your site and that site in Poland. THAT IS NOT ALL RANGES!!

Come on give me some credit. I didn't ever say mine is "better" or "so" differant.

But I do something that I know you guys don't do. This is not new, just smart. If you box, I grapple, you grapple, I box.

Don't be confused, grappling is not always on the ground. But the ground is effective if your out matched in another range. And thats what I'm talking about. You can't match a great fighter at his own game. If he is a great boxer or an aggresive brawler, well maybe you don't have to try and match him in his range, take the fight to another range that you work well in. If your proficient truely in "all ranges" then you have a chance to survive.

I've put a lot of years in "all ranges" learning them in separately in schools that focus on one range (like most schools do)!
All I'm doing is putting it all together. You guys should't dog me like you do!

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
I've seen alot of systems out there but I haven't seen any "traditional" systems cover all ranges effectively, at all.

This is becoming personal. Thats an out right lie to say you've trained that way all along. I've been to your site and that site in Poland. THAT IS NOT ALL RANGES!!

Now I am a liar…….
Uh…. sorry sporto those few mpegs don’t hardly cover all of what we do.
You are proving yourself to be rather uneducated……



Originally posted by akja
Come on give me some credit. I didn't ever say mine is "better" or "so" differant.

No you haven’t which is the only thing that has kept me from really tearing into you.




Originally posted by akja
Don't be confused, grappling is not always on the ground.

Oh really??? And here I thought tuite was only performed from the mount position. :rolleyes:

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Now I am a liar…….



Oh really??? And here I thought tuite was only performed from the mount position. :rolleyes:

Isn't it?


I'm over defending traditional karate. I love it, know what it covers and if people choose not to find out well it's their loss not mine.

Also, if karate groups can't come together to put in an olympic bid where only sporting rules apply I can safely say the chances of them coming together to come up with a standard by which to judge newly formed martial arts is less than zero.

Cheers
Sammy

[Angus]

"New arts" generally ARE "regulated". I would say, however, that it's probably more of a problem than anything because the thing is "regulated" by is the national head of sokeship council, or whatever it's called. It only serves to make things worse and less authentic, if you ask me, but it helps more people think they can and should make their own system. Yuck.

[James Kovacich]

My primary technique comes fro Jun Fan Gung_fu and BJJ and I'm blending traditional Jujitsu with the BJJ. Thats all. Not worth arguing over.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by akja
you stole my answers

:rofl:

[rmcrobertson]

After reading some of the arrogant and self-aggrandizing discourse on this thread, I'm darn glad the arts aren't regulated. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, ya know...and every time this issue comes up, I suspect somebody's looking for power.

[A.R.K.]

I feel that it is better in the long run that there is no standard or regulation. Otherwise such fine systems as JKD might never have been birthed. Certain Non-American groups were highly upset that Bruce was teaching 'yanks'. To the point of 'grudge match winner take all' taking place.

There are those that violently resist anything new. Either physically or verbally with antagonism. Fortunately, although there is nothing 'new under the sun', better ways of expressing these ideas occasionally come to the forefront.

As a result we enjoy many such fine systems as Judo, JKD, BJJ, Agni, ToroSomoDo etc etc. It is a long list. And it is important to remember that at some point ALL styles/systems were new.

Take care.

[Bujingodai]

This just isn't possible. With all the reasons a style may get started or why one would change sides, jump ship or whatever, nah. Also how can you regulate what the particular goals are vs just waza?
As far as the world sokeship thing goes. I agree, total waste no verification at all,just a cheap certificate. I have met some pretty pathetic practitioners who are a member of that.
Hopefully you can regulate arts by association. Stay away from the cowboys and your rep and likely your standards will stay high.

Any just rambling

[DAC..florida]

I believe that new styles/arts in america are regulated by the consumer how many of you have seen a dojo open and close in the same year, not all dojos that dont make it are bad arts but think abuot it!

If new styles where to be regulated then I ask by whom?

Training hard breeds warroirs...........

[A.R.K.]

If new styles where to be regulated then I ask by whom?

As I said, its a good thing that it really can't be. And if it were on what basis or authority would it be judged. The regulators would come from systems that were at some point new. As long as it works its fine. As long as the intentions behind it are sound, its fine.

In the end there will always be those that resist change. There will always be those who speak against the new. They may feel threatened, jealous, envious or simply narrow in their outlook. But does it really matter? Will it stop someone? No.

[Disco]

Allow me to use this analogy. The automobile was invented. Did we stay with the original model, No. Did we stay with the basic concept, Yes. Every year there are new models. They get better looking, faster and safer (better engineering). We've learned how to do it better with our own flavor added.

From the history of Martial Arts that we/I have been educated in, the starting point was Sholin Kung Fu. If in fact this is the unequlvocal truth, then unless you practice SKF, all other styles are a hybrid. Now there is nothing wrong with a hybrid. Somebody saw something or someway to do it different, sometimes better, someways easier but allways trying to achieve progress. I have no Idea of just how many variations of different style from different countries there are. I would venture a guess that it's high triple digits. Nobody can re-invent the wheel. But every year they do re-invent it's look. New styles/systems/methods, whatever you choose to call them, boils down to basic human nature thinking of ways to try to make it better (The given here is that they are real practitioners and not charlatan's). The biggest advantage of the human race is their ability for rational thinking and adaptation. For those that choose to take that bold step (starting something new/different) I hope that they indeed have found a positive and productive venue to enhance the Martial Arts Community and I wish them well. I learned early on in life that change is inevitable. When I accepted it I actually learned more.

[A.R.K.]

Good post.

As I mentioned earlier there are only two, well perhaps three ways that a system can 'begin'. First, an individual simply 'creates' it and starts teaching it. This can be good or bad. If it's based on sound previous knowledge and experience without the greed attachment then that would be fine. The person can 'assign' himself rank in that system out of thin air if he wishes or base it off of previously earned ranks. Either way no one can really say yea or nay as this is the example set in previous generations around the world.

Secondly, an individual trains within an established system and then requests permision to begin a new system and is granted that permision. But again, rank of the founder in the new system is still 'created' as there is no one able to 'give' it to him...or can they? Actually, not only 'can' they but they 'do' in many instances from around the world. Call it recognition or promotion it has been done and as such is a precedent to follow.

Thirdly, an individual trains and wishes to 'create' a new system. Wishing not to 'promote' himself he seeks not only peer review but actually review from those with more experience than himself. They in turn, if satisfied, 'recognize' that individuals right to do so and honors the rank.

As I said in another thread, a Grandmaster of one style can not only recognize an individual from outside the style with rank in his style but can recognize an individual outside his system in their system, at least initially. It has been done countless times by those before us so the precedent has been set. It will be done countless times here after so the trend has been set. Who is to regulate or say otherwise? No one. They could not because at some point their own system was new and in some way fell in some shape or fashion into one of the three senerios above.

And although there is nothing really new, some interesting things of value have come about that we all now enjoy individually and as a group. Very inspiring :)

[Aegis]

Or (call me crazy) the instructor could create a new system and not bother giving himself any rank. Then he could promote his students to however high he feels they deserve, without ever giving himself a rank OR title. That way it would have to be the system people looked at rather than some made up title/rank.

Anyone know of a case where this has happened?

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Aegis
Or (call me crazy) the instructor could create a new system and not bother giving himself any rank. Then he could promote his students to however high he feels they deserve, without ever giving himself a rank OR title. That way it would have to be the system people looked at rather than some made up title/rank.

Anyone know of a case where this has happened?


I agree with you but that would never work.
Being the badest mother in the valley doesn’t mean squat unless you have all the BS rank and BS titles to go with it. :rolleyes:

You see today’s martial artist simply MUST have all the bells and whistles to get perspective students attention.
They must have not just one but a few high dan ranks (bloated of course) in an obscure unverifiable style of course…..nothing less than 8th or 9th dan will do, they must also have titles like Soke. It doesn’t matter that their technique sucks and is far inferior to your average shodan or that they have never stayed in one style long enough to know it but merely “dojo hopped”.
Some even have bogus PhDs that were earned through the mail and the only written material required to receive it was signing a check.
They might also claim to have taught military or law enforcement.
(Which is a joke. Law enforcement is actually legally limited to the types of techniques they can and cannot use. Teaching the military is also not what is appears. )

Students need all these fictitious props to feel secure that they are getting their moneys worth too. :rolleyes:
As we all know, any martial artist that is worth his salt MUST have high rank, must have a title, must have taught some sort of law enforcement or military.:rolleyes:

[Phil Elmore]

The power to regulate something is the power to ban it. Resist any and all calls to establish any sort of "governing body" for the martial arts.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
The power to regulate something is the power to ban it. Resist any and all calls to establish any sort of "governing body" for the martial arts.


Amen!

[Disco]

Sharp Phil, Kirk. I remember (vaguely), reading in a Martial Arts mag a few years back. Putting oversite by the Goverment on the Martial Arts in America. They wanted to be big brother to the dojo's. They referenced the position of other countries that the arts have the backing / recognition from their governments. Have you guys ever read or heard anything on this? I'm glad that it has never come to pass, but if they thought of it once they just mite think of it again. Weve got gun legislation up the gazoo. I can see it now: well my right foot is registered, but I have to get a special permit for my left..................

[Cthulhu]

Regulation would never work (who? how? what set of guidelines?). Standards are silly.

Only two things can determine the viability of any 'new' system: time and acceptance of peers.

TKD is relatively new, but given time, it's been spreading like crazy. The same can be said for JKD.

Any new system has to withstand the test of time, and that must be coupled with continued growth of student and instructor population during that timeframe.

Cthulhu
diggin' his new 'puter

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Regulation would never work (who? how? what set of guidelines?). Standards are silly.

Only two things can determine the viability of any 'new' system: time and acceptance of peers.

TKD is relatively new, but given time, it's been spreading like crazy. The same can be said for JKD.

Any new system has to withstand the test of time, and that must be coupled with continued growth of student and instructor population during that timeframe.

Cthulhu
diggin' his new 'puter

I kind of touched on that but it wasn't heard amonst all the stuff.
What I said as I have found is my opinion and not that of a whole lot of other people. But here it is, I said:

My art is not a style, it is a system. Anybody can create a new system but a style will stand the test of time.

Which naturally any new system has yet to have accomplished.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
I agree with you but that would never work.
Being the badest mother in the valley doesn’t mean squat unless you have all the BS rank and BS titles to go with it. :rolleyes:

You see today’s martial artist simply MUST have all the bells and whistles to get perspective students attention.
They must have not just one but a few high dan ranks (bloated of course) in an obscure unverifiable style of course…..nothing less than 8th or 9th dan will do, they must also have titles like Soke. It doesn’t matter that their technique sucks and is far inferior to your average shodan or that they have never stayed in one style long enough to know it but merely “dojo hopped”.
Some even have bogus PhDs that were earned through the mail and the only written material required to receive it was signing a check.
They might also claim to have taught military or law enforcement.
(Which is a joke. Law enforcement is actually legally limited to the types of techniques they can and cannot use. Teaching the military is also not what is appears. )

Students need all these fictitious props to feel secure that they are getting their moneys worth too. :rolleyes:
As we all know, any martial artist that is worth his salt MUST have high rank, must have a title, must have taught some sort of law enforcement or military.:rolleyes:


Interesting perpective but we haven't established that anybody in these threads that dojo hopped technique sucked or their rank was based on signing a check.

Of course with an outside source money changes hands, but that dosen't mean that those are the guidelines for recognition. Being awarded rank from someone who has an organization that is recruiting members based on what they actually know is not ficticious. There are many people out there who are very well versed in the martial arts and it would be a great loss not let them teach.

I will admit that you can order any kind of certificate that you want for money. But I can also tell you that nobody that I've associated myself with does that.

Also Yiliquan1 stuck his training out there to be scrutinized by us in the "points to ponder "thread. I followed suit. "We" are still waiting for those of you who contributed to to that thread to put your training out there for us to see. I've heard many requests by many people to verify 1 individuals rank in particular. But "nobody" doing the requesting is putiing their training out there for us, just there opinions which nobody seems to really cares about anyway.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja

Also Yiliquan1 stuck his training out there to be scrutinized by us in the "points to ponder "thread. I followed suit. "We" are still waiting for those of you who contributed to to that thread to put your training out there for us to see. I've heard many requests by many people to verify 1 individuals rank in particular.

Be specific. Who's rank are you interested in?


Originally posted by akja

But "nobody" doing the requesting is putiing their training out there for us, just there opinions which nobody seems to really cares about anyway.

Who's opinion are you referring to?

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
Interesting perpective but we haven't established that anybody in these threads that dojo hopped technique sucked or their rank was based on signing a check.




Is that so?

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Is that so?

Yes,
that is so!

I'm not attacking you, remember I was the attackee for several days and you know as well as I do that with all the minds in the world, this can go on forever.

Standards can very, its a simple matter. And I am man enough to admit that I was wrong saying those things about meeting you guys. But set aside all the B.S. we've addressed over the last several days. Nothing can take away from my abilities and I should not be held back from teaching.

I can only speak for myself, period. I was evaluated by someone qualified to do so. They could have a differant standard. There is no number one governing body for the arts although some people think theres should be the one.

But Yiliquan1 did set the stage in the points to ponder thread. And there were many people who had there opinions but nobody has returned since he posted and set the stage for everybody. It seems only he and I are willing to deliver the goods in its entirety!

I don't care what anybody thinks of me. I just come here to learn.

I do know you have a wealth of knowledge that would benefit me considering I am a "student" of Matsumura Shorin Ryu, that you should know if you've read my posts. And you should give me at least a tiny bit of respect for waiting to teach it until I receive a teaching certificate from George Alexander. Thats why I only teach the traditional arts to my family, because they are registered students of my instructors. Eventually I will teach both modern and traditional to the public but I've spent the last 8 years molding myself into what I beleive I should be and that is what my teaching should reflect for now.

I never intended for the public to think that I'm trying to present something superior. But you went to my site and the key was right in front of your face the whole time.

Kokon Ryu Bujutsukan

Maybe my Japanese sucks but I do practice both traditional and modern martial arts.

Have a good day!

:cool:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
I do know you have a wealth of knowledge that would benefit me considering I am a "student" of Matsumura Shorin Ryu, that you should know if you've read my posts. And you should give me at least a tiny bit of respect for waiting to teach it until I receive a teaching certificate from George Alexander.



George Alexander?
Uh.........don't even start me on that...........

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
George Alexander?
Uh.........don't even start me on that...........

Come on this is America and he is well respected here in America. You can't expect the American martial arts to be as they existed in Japan and Okinawa. But since you brought it up. Go for it.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
Come on this is America and he is well respected here in America. You can't expect the American martial arts to be as they existed in Japan and Okinawa. But since you brought it up. Go for it.


You brought his name into this.

While I have heard George is a fairly decent Martial Artist I do know that he goes to Okinawa to Kise Fuse’s dojo.

Kise is notorious for selling dan rank to foreigners that come over for short "budo tours". One person I know went to his 3rd class at Kise’s dojo and was asked to test for 4th kyu (freen belt). So if you want to get some rank from an Okinawan go to Kise’s.
Or you could go to Yabiku Takaya the cab driver that sells Hohan Soken dan ranks to foreigners as well.

Plus I know George does video training/testing. Alexander’s historical research leaves a lot to be desired as well.

I also know many of George's top studetns left when he went "commercial" too.

[James Kovacich]

I've done my research. But george was a student of the late Yuichi Kuda. It could be that he got his higher rank from Kise though he states it from the All Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate and Kobudo Association.

Really my goal is to buid a training organization and as it grows I will be able to quit working in Silicon Valley and travel to train with my Instructors and my students full time.

George being in Tennessee and me in Ca., he fits the bill to fit into my plans as well as my other instructors. My closest instructor is George Kirby who is in L.A. and while I'm down there I plan to train with Joe Moreira too.

[A.R.K.]

Yes, that is so. Inuendo and biased opinion does not constitute actual fact. Hostile e-mugging even less so. But not everyone can be counted on to be polite I suppose. :rolleyes:

On a different topic;

Akja,

I know it does not matter to you any credentials I have, I think you would be more interested in my ability. I have read your posts with great interest and though we may differ a bit here and there we seem to be on the same sheet of music on the majority. From what I have seen you have solid training and sought out not only peer review but testing from those above you. You chose a medial that others may look down on, but I don't think its keeping you up at night is it? :D The bottom line is what YOU know and what YOU can teach others. And you [and I] followed in the foot steps of those before us.

I began training in the early 70's. Pangai-noon/Uechi-ryu was very prominant in the area. As happens with many styles there are politics and strife from within that filters down to the students occasionally. Uechi-ryu for example has gone thru such strife and continues to do so. The effects of which are not lost on American practitioners, as well as the rest of the world. Many splinter factions have been produced as a result, be it Pangai-noon ryu, Pangai-noon or simply 'Okinawan Karate'. New lines have developed but the techniques for the most part remain the same.

I taught in Incirlik AB, Turkey in 86 as a Nidan to military personell off duty. Even though the system is limited [they all are in some regard], I continued throughout the 90's teaching and progressing. I taught Executive Protection Agents as well as LEO personel as I was now well into a career with the County Sheriff. Ryushikan does make a good point that Police/Corrections is limited to certain state approved techniques & tactics. For example, when I instruct recruits in Academy DT we have to go by F.D.L.E. standards. In-service is different and more advance techniques can be used.

However, LEO are encouraged to seek outside training i.e. Martial Arts. And depending on the technique it can be applied. Perhaps not a kick to the head :D But many techniques can be used in application. For example I teach recruits the 'goose neck' i.e. bent wrist transporter/takedown. The recruit learns the basics of pain compliance with regards to the wrist. That is the extend of this technique in Academy training. However, if I train a Deputy off duty in my school and show him multiple techniques with the wrist he can then justifiably use them on duty. He need merely articulate that do to the principle[s] learned in the academy he applied an appropriate application to the situation.

I recieved my 8th last year, I've already given the name. There has been a separation taken place due to things that are no ones business except us. Although I am constrained by ethics [I am a Deputy] and my personal morales [I am a Christian] I wish this man the best and will not speak ill of him. And my reluctance to subject his name to those here who quite frankly have a hard on for me is out of respect. A particular individual here seems to take great delight in smearing people justly or unjustly. Skeletons his closet do not reflect on me nor did they effect my training. However I have discontinued any desure to advancement nor do I see it as possible would I want to do to politics above me. If I'm being too vauge for some's taste...to bad, don't care. My training is sound and that is the bottom line.

Shuri Te was taught to me by my friend Robert Harmer and he honored me with Shodan. We were in the Academy together in 1990. I was forced to discontinue contiuous training with him in 95 due to an accident that disabled my wife. But continued personal training as best I could with others of similar Okinawan styles. He and I got together as best we could when the times were appropriate. It also gave me the opportunity to flesh out ZDW. I had begun teahing it in 95 just prior to her accident in that system although it was in it's infancy and incomplete. It was not even named.

I was granted Godan from Michael Dunn who has extensive experience in Okinawan styles. Although some differences in forms, the techniques were similar. And to be honest, I'm no longer big on forms. It was in person btw. If anyone has a problem with this, to bad. I had a very good understanding of the system by Shodan, the rest is ability, time in grade etc. Agree or disagree, its a mute point.

As an Police Instructor I have the unique opportunity to train with those people I once only read about in magazines. S.E.P.S.I. has people come in to train advanced courses throughout the year. People like Moti Horenstein, Hunan Yadin, Peter Boatman, Gracie etc. Also I have the opportunity to go to seminars with people like Joe Hess etc. Doesn't make me special in the slightest, but it presents me opportunites that take advantage of at every opportunity. I anyone here wishes to question my role and involvement in Police training I'll refer you to the training section Sgt. and he will be more than happy to fill you in on my LEO training background. It's listed in short form on my bio and at length on my site.

Again, the DOES NOT make me special! It makes me blessed. I am fortunate to have come into contact with so many fine folks throughout my MA and LEO career.

Last year I accepted invitation to become the Florida Representative for the KYHA and I gladly accepted. It opened up alot of doors for training and fellowship with alot of fine people around the world. Btw the Ph.D is legite not mail ordered as someone with absolutely NO knowledge made the implication. I could see this type of behavior from someone living near an individual that new FIRSTHAND there was something questionable. But for someone living on the other side of the planet, who has NO knowledge whatsoever to be a smart ass, to make unsubstantiated inuenos is ridiculous.

The reason I chose to respond with some background highlights to YOU Akja is because you had enough respect and courtesy not to e-mugg me the first day I said 'hi'. You didn't become antagonistic in your first post to me and then follow it up with TEN posts, minutes apart in which you became more and more hostile without even giving me the chance to reply to the FIRST one. You have expressed a level of maturity, as have many others here, that was not present in a small hand full here.

And I want you and the others to know I appreciate you not jumping down my throat from day one. I want you and others to know I appreciate being made welcome here to learn and contribute, cause maybe...just maybe I do have something to contribute :) I think you might know how I feel about being on the defensive from the start...

This may not be my life history all the way back to kindergarden but it is the most I feel the need to share at this time with people, most of which, I don't know. As I get to know some better I will open up more and share experiences. But to those that just feel the need to be arrogant, antagonistic and unprofessional...have a nice day :cool:

I am confident in my training and in my ability to teach. I have been doing so since the 80's. I have earned the respect of men who have vastly more experience than I. I seek continually to improve. I seek continually to fellowship. If there are some here that don't want to receive that fellowship then so be it. But considering the amount of PM's and personal email I have received there are those here I can fellowship with. I consider you amoung them.

I will pay you the highest compliment I can...If I were not an instructor and lived in your area I would seek to have you as an instructor.

I now return you to the reguarly scheduled program :D

Take care.

P.S. Please excuse the numerous typos, I was in a hurry. Thanks.

[James Kovacich]

Zhao Dai Wei,
I accepted what you were saying because I not only heard you, I was listening. I've been to your site and your place in American martial arts is well deserved. Actually you've given us more info on yourself than most of the accusers have given us on themselves!:D

People in other parts of the world and here too are always going to discredit us for anything we do. Who cares. I have a student who was fortunate enough to be trained by an old Thai fighter from Thailand. Yet this guy asked me to train him because he wants to be a cage fighter. Why did he come to me? It wasn't for a certificate, thats for sure!:D

Everybody has somebody to blame and pick on, thats fine for them. But while they are trying to figure what to say next I'm still going to be teaching fighters to fight! :D

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei

I recieved my 8th last year, I've already given the name.


What was that name again? I think I missed it………

[A.R.K.]

What was that name again? I think I missed it………

Thats odd, I emailed you a novel's worth. You didn't think much of it as I recalled. You have made up your mind about me so I doubt there is little that I can do to change it.

I think I'll just be nice and pleasant to you and when you try to rip me a new one....I'll just still be nice and pleasant to you.

Have a wonderful day. Looking forward to learning much from you :)

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Thats odd, I emailed you a novel's worth. You didn't think much of it as I recalled. You have made up your mind about me so I doubt there is little that I can do to change it.


Shall I post the email you sent me and let others try and figure out the answer to my 3 questions?
Maybe they can figure out where you wrote the answers because my dumb Cajun ass sure couldn't.

This is going to be like that game called “Where’s Wally?”
Things to try and find:

Where/who he got an 8th dan from.

Which organization in Kobe granted him a Soke title.

Which Okinawans are teaching Shurte ryu in Okinawa

This is the message from Zhao Dai Wei........good luck:

Is it really going to satisfy you? To you I'm just an 'over-ranked yank'. You haven't shown me the least little courtesy. You disregard anything positive I have said to you. You disregard any courtesy I have extended to you. You ignore the names of those GM's that I have listed above me. You are welcome to contact GM Stern at any time. He knows me, he's flying in to teach the ILMAM/GCMAG seminar on the 22nd for children's charity. He felt confident enough in my credentials to ask me to be the Florida representative for the KYHA. He knows the people I have listed and he knows that they know me.

Before I met any of them I didn't know ther was the word Soke. I didn't care, and still don't. If it is wrong then it is because those WAY above me are wrong, however I respect them. They gave me the title of Grandmaster because of who I've trained under, what I've accomplished etc. Give me SOME credit, I don't have a McDojo. I don't scam people, I made $170 extra this month on karate do help support myself and my family. I have to because my wife is disabled and we are one income. So I teach what I can on the side and teach in the Police academy in every area other than driving. It keeps me from my family sometimes for days because I still work my normal duty hours at the jail, but I have NO choice. So cut me some slack partner. I'm not Hitler, I'm not some scam artist, I'm not 'ruining' the good name of Martial Arts.

When I developed Zhao Dai Wei I had a choice, wave a wand and say I'm a 25th degree BB or try to go to those that ARE my betters and say 'please help me'. I have never played politics and don't know the first thing about how to. I have been fortunate to come in contact with several gentlemen who are down right decent human beings. They have more experience and put me in contact with heads of systems/organizations. One was the KYHA. Pappasan has almost 60 years in the MA's. He trained with/under people like Mas Oyama. He has ties to Japan, Korea, Saudi etc. Instead of me saying I'm this or that I sought out the wisdom and direction of people of this stature. They looked at me and what I had with a microscope. My system is registered in Kobe, Souel and Rydlk [sp?]. I have all the 'wall candy' in two boxes in the back of my closet so I don't have all the info you want at this time, but I do have it, I'm not lying to you. Why is it in boxes in my closet, because hanging them on a wall does not effect who I am or what I know. I have solid technique and have taught people in a manner that truly has saved their lives.

Brad was my Sensei [I don't call people master in regards to myself because only Jesus Christ is my master]. The rank is valid, I hesitated because their are...personal issues involved afterward that I wish to remain behind closed doors. I will go no further in this area becuase it is of a delicate nature and I wish to bring no disrespect to anyone above me.

I was granted a Shodan in Shuri Te by Robert Harmer. Because of work schedule differences our training times differed. Also the accident that disabled my wife occured shortly afterwards. My training continued with many others along the way. All American. I have no ties to Okinawa in this discipline. Shortly after meeting Michael Dunn I asked him to test me. He is not Shuri but is Goju and earned his rank in Okinawa while stationed there...the HARD WAY. Does he know ALL the kata associated with Shuri, no not all. But all the kata was completed by Shodan for me. The rest was time in grade, skill proficiency etc. He is a registered Master as well with the Kukkiwan. Not that this has anything to do with Shuri but to say both his Dan's come straight from oriental dojo's. He looked at all of my stuff but was more concerned with practical application than form because of similar backgrounds i.e. military and LEO. The techniques he and I use are extremely similar. He has associates that are in the shuri arena as well and is very familar. So I got Godan from him. If you wish to blast me on it..well there is your ammo.

Just for fyi, I have given up progression in both disciplines because of my focus on ZDW. I honesty don't care about 'rank' and rarely wear it. It is on my site the way it is, not for my ego [ I lost that years ago] for the edification of my students. If something is wrong i.e. Soke then I take the hit on it. I'm not Japanese but have attempted to give ZDW 'some' flavor' out of respect for those before me. Trust me, I'm not in it for the money and I am not some evil bastard, and I do desire peace between us.

[A.R.K.]

My friend, you do whatever will make you happy. I'm pretty much done doing the tango with you. So I think I'll just be a happy camper regardless of whatever is said. I said in the beginnign I was hear to fellowship....and I've made a fair start with some folks. I'm gonna keep the trend going.

Take care.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
My friend, you do whatever will make you happy. I'm pretty much done doing the tango with you. So I think I'll just be a happy camper regardless of whatever is said. I said in the beginnign I was hear to fellowship....and I've made a fair start with some folks. I'm gonna keep the trend going.

Take care.


That's run away............:rolleyes:

[Aegis]

Brad was my Sensei [I don't call people master in regards to myself because only Jesus Christ is my master]. The rank is valid, I hesitated because their are...personal issues involved afterward that I wish to remain behind closed doors. I will go no further in this area becuase it is of a delicate nature and I wish to bring no disrespect to anyone above me.

Ok, so so far we know that some guy named "Brad" was your sensei. How informative. And how convenient that there are "personal issues" surrounding this rank. If there are real issues with the rank, don't claim it. If there aren't, then elaborate.

My first rule of looking for a teacher is this: If he keeps his training history a secret, then don't train under him. Simple as that. If someone isn't willing to share their training past, then it's probably because it isn't worth mentioning it.

The basic idea is this: claim whatever rank you like. No-one with any legitimate experience will take you seriously unless you provide decent background that can be verified.

Now that I've said that, I'm going to lurk in the background for a bit longer.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
That's run away............:rolleyes:

LOL! Stop baiting the poor guy :shrug: :rofl:

[A.R.K.]

No-one with any legitimate experience will take you seriously unless you provide decent background that can be verified

My credentials have already been checked and verified with organizations like the KYHA. It is one of the largest and oldest in this country. It has strict standards and it's membership has fine, solid men.

Don't need to prove anything here to you or anyone after the shabby way I was treated for saying 'HI'.

If anyone here doesn't like it....to bad so sad :rolleyes: Those that have run off at the mouth are not people I would associate with anyway. I fellowship with professionals not internet wannabes.

Btw, I HAVE opened up to some here privately that I have found courteous. I have shared some solid information as well publically. Those who continue to flame me have lost the benefit of such information. But considering the amount of email/PM I have received it hasn't been lost on everyone. There are professionals here with a winning mind set. And I'm glad and humbled to know them now.

Peace and love.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
My credentials have already been checked and verified with organizations like the KYHA. It is one of the largest and oldest in this country.

So which is it……….are you recognized by the bogus nonexistent organization in Kobe, Japan or by this KY whatchmacallit?


Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
It has strict standards and it's membership has fine, solid men.

Sounds like a Viagra commercial.


Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Don't need to prove anything here to you or anyone after the shabby way I was treated for saying 'HI'.

yet another excuse……..


Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
I fellowship with professionals not internet wannabes.

How do you live with yourself then?


Ya know………..you could have nipped this in the bud by just posting your credentials with the info asked for about 50 posts ago and it would have all been forgotten by now.
However, since you didn’t and continue to side step and baulk when asked to produce your claims will always be suspect.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei


Don't need to prove anything here to you or anyone after the shabby way I was treated for saying 'HI'.



I agree that does come across like an excuse for not answering. Everyone is welcome on this site as far as I know But for a first post you put some pretty interesting stuff that was bound to cause arguments. I would have waited till you know the people and the kind of reactions you would get THEN put up the confrontational stuff. Just me I guess.....:shrug:

[chufeng]

My credentials have already been checked and verified with organizations like the KYHA. It is one of the largest and oldest in this country. It has strict standards and it's membership has fine, solid men.

...and so, you should be proud to post them here...to be counted among them as an excellent teacher...

Why are you so reluctant to post the information?

I am not interested in the excuse that you were treated unfairly...you have a chance to clear everything up; yet, you persist in NOT providing information...

Quite frankly, I don't care that you started your own system...
I don't care if you charge $1.00 or $100.00 dollars a month for lessons...
I hope your students are getting what they pay for...but, I would like to know WHO promoted you...

If you choose to reply...please, no more whining about how unfairly you've been treated...answer the question...or not...if not, that will be enough...I don't need excuses OR your insistance that someone else PROVE your credentials don't exist...since you've never produced them here, the only way anyone could say they don't exist is to come to your school and ransack through everything there...and then go to your home and ransack through everything there...and then the BEST they could say is that the credentials aren't at the school or the residence...

It almsot seems that you are embarrassed to tell us who promoted you...I don't get it.

peace, love, etc.
:asian:
chufeng

[A.R.K.]

No, just pissed off at the crappy treatment and lack of opportunity at the beginning to offer clarification. Thats not whinning that is fact. I was raped over a barrel by some hot headed folks.

So be it. I have posted a reply in the other thread.

[chufeng]

Saw your other post...thanks...

:asian:
chufeng

[A.R.K.]

You are welcome....and thank you for a fair shake. :asian:

[DAC..florida]

Dont you get tired of being bashed by these people...........



Hard training breeds warriors......

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
Dont you get tired of being bashed by these people...........



I get tired of seeing people that claim bloated dan ranks & Soke titles & PhDs with dubious qualifications to support such ranks and titles.

[A.R.K.]

D.A.C.

Yes I do. But I have no control over what another person thinks, feels or says. I can only live who I am.

Btw, give me a PM some time and tell me what agency your with. I'm P.C.S.O.