Multiple Styles

[Fabio]

I'm just curious to know other people's opinion when it comes to practicing multiple styles. Do you feel like it is very beneficial or does one style interfere with the other? Is it best to take on a new style when you're very proficient with your current one or not necessarily? I'm just curious to know what your thoughts are. What styles complement each other best? and if you practice multiple styles, what are they and what are your thoughts on combining them?

[Flying Crane]

I practice several styles, mainly because I seem to have an insatiable curiosity, not because I feel I need to fill holes in one style with elements from another.

In my opinion, it is far better to develop a solid knowledge and skill level in one style first, before training in others. If you try to do more than one as a beginner, you will not make progress. If you wait until you are solid in one style first, then you may be able to progress in two styles at once.

I think this is a very personal thing. For many (most?) people, training in one system is PLENTY. Other people are able to handle more than one. If your one system is being taught by a skilled instructor, and if you are happy with the methods and the training, then it probably offers you everything you need and you should not feel that you are lacking. Don't be in a hurry to train in other styles simply to rack up a list.

My own experiences are with systems that tend to be fairly different from each other. Again, it's not to fill gaps, but rather my own personal curiosity and interest. The methods that the different arts use are quite different, and I simply found it interesting to learn them. My roots in the martial arts are with Tracy lineage kenpo karate. Later, I got into capoeira for about 7 years or so, which is quite unlike anything else. I have also spent about 10 years learning some Chinese methods, including Wing Chun, Tibetan White Crane, and Taiji Chuan. All of these systems approach combat from a fairly different direction, and have different ideas about how technique ought to be applied.

I've found it to be very rewarding to train in these systems. However, It does make it more difficult to keep on top of it all. I have learned a tremendous amount of material, and I do try to work on it all regularly with the exception of capoeira which I have mostly departed from. If I had stuck with only one system from the beginning (I've been training for close to 24 years now) I am sure I would be much better at that one system. However, I have done this with my eyes open, and I felt the range of experience was worthwhile, so I have spread my efforts out over several arts.

I generally do not find myself getting confused from one system to the other. Again, because their methodologies are quite different, it has been pretty easy for me to compartmentalize them and separate them from each other when I am training.

There have been some exceptions to that rule, however. I have recently been learning Tam Tui from two different sources, under two different instructors, at the same time. Tam Tui is an old form common to a number of Chinese systems. I have been learning it from my Kung Fu sifu, but at the same time I've been learning it from my Kenpo teacher, as Tracy Kenpo has also adopted a version of this form. But the two versions I have been learning are not identical. They are definitely similar, clearly from a common root. But they are different enough that I need to really concentrate to make sure I am keeping each version separate.

[terryl965]

I beleive a person has the right to do what makes them happy and not tend to worry what other people think.

[Fabio]

Agreed. I'm extremely happy with the style I study (Kyuki-Do). I’m extremely fortunate I found a style I can truly enjoy, identify myself with and have access to excellent instruction.

I’m just curious to know what other members here think.

[still learning]

Hello, There should be NO limits on what a person wants to learn.

For many people learning more than one martial is a CAN DO thing!....We do Kempo and some Judo...they are completely different yet many things are the same....like the takedowns and throws.

Some schools and Instructors "DO NOT LIKE THIS"....Best to check with your teachers first!

Going to Martial art Seminers that is different from your school is a good thing to see and learn what others do!

There is a difference between Jack of ALL trades and a master of one trade? ....depends mostly on the individual

Aloha ...still able to chew gum and walk...

[Xue Sheng]

I'm just curious to know other people's opinion when it comes to practicing multiple styles. Do you feel like it is very beneficial or does one style interfere with the other? Is it best to take on a new style when you're very proficient with your current one or not necessarily? I'm just curious to know what your thoughts are. What styles complement each other best? and if you practice multiple styles, what are they and what are your thoughts on combining them?

I too have insatiable curiosity but I currently train only 2, Taiji and Sanda, but I have trained several at once in the past and I think you should be able to train what you like when you like but neither of my sifus would agree as it applies to a beginner and if you want to train with these people you follow their rules.

Also of late I am starting to see the difference between insatiable curiosity and what I really need to learn if I want to get better at any of the styles I train. Although I am not quite ready yet to listen to myself just yet but I do believe I can happily train the 2 I currently train for a very long time and never stop learning and if I want I can add another that I have trained before I can probably handle that but I do not think I am up to doing greater than 3 any more nor do I think I could go train a drastically different style and do any of the training justice anymore. It would just ends up WAY to much to remember and at times things can contradict one another and keeping those straight in my head in front of the correct sifu would get REALLY difficult if I go past 3.

And finally they have to have at least some similarity and luckily what I do is all CMA so they do share some rather interesting similarities.

[Sanchin-J]

I think if you look into most styles, the similarities to other styles becomes rather evident, so its only natural to want to delve into other similar styles to see techniques not offered in your own. I study Sanchin-Ryu Karate, that is the art I've decided to dedicate myself to, but that doesn't mean I have to close my mind off to learning anything outside our own system of training. Most of the martial artists I speak with or know have studied other styles and do in some cases use some of those techniques in their primary art.

I consider myself to be a scholar or as I put it to someone else recently, when it comes to martial arts, "I think of myself as a book containing the knowledge of what I've learned, yet if you turn to the last page, you will see a blank page with no number at the bottom which indicates that my education in the arts will never end and that there is always room to learn more."

There are probably styles out there which prohibit learning other styles in addition to theirs, and while I certainly understand why that could be an issue, I am certainly glad my own choice in styles allows me to remain open minded and free to seek knowledge.

[stickarts]

I think it depends upon the persons memory, time to train, desire, and aptitude. I developed a good base in one art before adding another. I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of training in multiple arts. I am constantly practicing and teaching which is how I can maintain it all, and luckily I have a very good memory. I see enough inter-relationships between the arts and they don't conflict for me. You do reach a point where you have to pick and choose how much to train in. When you try to do TOO much you get good at none of it.

[bdparsons]

From a previous post on the same subject a few years back:

The best thing to do is perfect your basics in the system your in. This should be at the high brown/black belt level. I wouldn't worry about cross training until you are extremely comfortable in the style you're currently in. If you feel it may be lacking in a certain area, talk to your instructor. Most styles are taught in a building-block manner. You may find that you just haven't reached the point where certain things are taught. First and foremost make sure you are comfortable with the instructor, then stick with it.

One note of caution: When you reach the intermediate level of any art you choose, you will likely begin to second-guess your style and your instructor. Practically everybody does it at one time or another. I call this the "Green Belt Expert" level. There is a large drop-out rate at this level because one of three things happen: a) You as a student see how much more there is to cover before reaching black belt, feel that it is too much and also feel that you've learned enough to take care of yourself, which usually isn't the case. (This is especially true of arts with a lot of material such as Kenpo and Hapkido.) or b) Your instructor doesn't have the "awe" factor they had when you began. You're used to them, and feel bored with their methods of teaching. Not that it's bad, it's just "the same old thing week in and week out". or c) a combination of the a and b.

There are thousands of "Green Belt Experts" out there, bouncing from school to garage to back yards to schools... you get the picture. Wouldn't be surprised if there are more than a few that frequent forums such as this one, trying to impress everyone with their "knowledge". Guard heavily against this syndrome! You'll only be cheating yourself. Get a solid grounding in one art, whichever you choose, then move on. When you do you will not only discover new things, but you will learn to appreciate the strengths of your original art.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

[Sanchin-J]

That was a great post from Bdparsons, and all in all it's relatively true to what happens. I myself am around the level he mentioned, not quite a brown yet, but certainly not your average orange or white belt beginner any longer. On a very personal level I'll show the courage necessary to admit that I've been one of those "Green Belt Experts" in the past. I wouldn't say his definition fit my circumstances exactly, but I did feel as a 16 year old young man, that I had learned enough to move on and be able to successfully defend myself and I had lost interest in the seemingly same old class and was relatively unimpressed with my instructor. Granted, we all wanted to be Billy bad arse, and wanted to wear a black belt as teenagers, it's just the way it is. In a lot of ways, I considered my former art to be tamed and ineffective, and I wanted to be an action hero, movie star martial artist with a dazzling arsenal of high flying techniques.

I was young, I thought I knew everything, and wisdom isn't a natural trait bestowed to raging hormonal teenage boys at that age. Later on in life, after going through some serious or complicated situations and experiences, I began to understand how things worked in a much clearer perspective. Twenty or so years later, my perspective is completely different, I respect my instructors, love the classes, and can truly say that I've learned a lot about the martial arts not just as a student studying multiple arts, but as an older wiser person who over time has gained wisdom and understanding.

[tshadowchaser]

speaking for myself only
Anything I learn benefits my knowledge and can be a tool for improving

[kailat]

Speakin on behalf of myself also. I feel learning is essential nonetheless. In my opinion I treat martial arts like gaining an education. if u can teach your mind to cross train between english, math, history, social studies, and the plethora of other things were taught from an early age and keep it seperate. Why can't we do the same w/ martial arts? Many people play basketball, baseball,football all 3 different sports all three different regulations and each require different physical attributes. On the same note Martial Arts really isn't much different.

Again thats my opinion. Get a base and stick with it, if u feel confident as you maintain your study in that system begin to look into another that you enjoy. Standup to Grappling arts 2 seperate arts yet many do it often.

Thanks again

[YoungMan]

One is hard enough. You can study one thoroughly, then try another later on. I don't mean as a high color belt, I mean wait until you are 3rd-4th Dan. By then, you have enough mastery and aren't struggling physically to get things down.
The other way is to get a superficial knowledge of one style, get a red belt or 1st Dan, think you know enough, and start a different style.
Definitely ask your Instructor as a sign of respect even if you are higher ranking. If he says "yes", great. If he says "no", respect his decision.

[Doc_Jude]

I find that it's a good idea to get the basics of a style down before getting involved in another. Sometimes the learning curve can be retarded to the point of frustration when practicing multiple style. Right now, my primary art is Pentjak Silat, with my secondary art being Escrima. They happen to complement each other pretty well, so I'm fortunate in that respect.
As said above, ask/consult your instructor & get their advice if you feel that would be prudent or required under your current student/teacher dynamic.

[LawDog]

Practicing multiple styles at the same time can be done but you must be willing to give up much of your free social time and have a good divorce lawyer on retainer. I have done this for most of my martial arts career, I came close to a divorce a few times in doing this.
My suggestion for training in multi systems at the same time,
* the other systems should not be close to your main system. You can then learn in area's that you are not familiar with,
* talk this plan over with people who are within your social and works inner circle,
* make sure that you can give X amount of time each and every week,
* don't carry over one styles way into another's,
* let all of your instructors know what you are planning, in this way they will not feel that you are training behind their back, good p.r.,
* make sure that you can afford this multi training over a predetermined period of time.
Good luck and have fun.

[searcher]

I study multiple styles and I have found it very beneficial to my understanding and development. Exposure to others is essential, IMO, to your understanding of how others do it and what to expect from other styles, in competition or maybe even on the street. Some of my training in other styles has not been aided by school closings or disagreemnents with other instructors, but it has always helped me out.

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I study multiple styles. After I learned one form in one style which took about 5-6 months to be decent. I had the choice to perfect it or move on to another form within the style or pick a different style to try the first form. I decided to learn from the new style and learn the first form which again took about 5-6 months. Though I continue to learn more I still go through reviews for all the forms as a way to perfect it and know it in depth. It works fine for me as I study with my teacher privately one on one I feel with learning multiple styles is you get out as much as you put in just my opnion.

[chinto]

I'm just curious to know other people's opinion when it comes to practicing multiple styles. Do you feel like it is very beneficial or does one style interfere with the other? Is it best to take on a new style when you're very proficient with your current one or not necessarily? I'm just curious to know what your thoughts are. What styles complement each other best? and if you practice multiple styles, what are they and what are your thoughts on combining them?


I would suggest that you study only one art till you are at least a shodan or its equivalent. From there you might if you feel the need look at training in something else as well. but I think its a bad idea to try and learn two arts at once..

[tellner]

It really depends on what they are and your state of development. Once you've got a firm grounding in one thing it's easier to pick up another without having all the cross-training issues. There are more problems when the disciplines you're studying are very similar. Karate and Thai boxing are close enough that there will be some serious cross-training difficulties. Karate and archery not so much. Then you have the "too many girlfriends problem". If you do too many different martial arts at once you won't get too far in any of them. There's a certain amount of uninterrupted study that's required to burn in a martial art. If you're doing a whole bunch of stuff you may have a lot of fun picking and choosing, but you'll never be able to get past the beginning stages at any one of them. How many is too many? When is too soon? There's no single answer to that question. It varies a lot from person to person. At the same time there's a point of diminishing returns in everything. If you train a thousand hours a day eight days a week in one system there will come a point where the extra time you're putting in isn't getting you that much farther. You'll get more out of your classes and personal practice by doing something complementary. All the BS about loyalty to the spirit of the Art is just that. These are ways that people figured out about how to fight. They aren't the Unholy Ichor of Great Cthulhu. All of the Great Men of Old learned stuff, learned other stuff and mixed it together to suit. Progress in the martial arts came from them standing up, dusting themselves off and saying "Well, that didn't work. If I'm going to fight him I'll need to try something else" or looking at the bodies lying on the floor and thinking "Damn. I've really got to figure out how to deal with that before I come up against it."

[Xue Sheng]

I would suggest that you study only one art till you are at least a shodan or its equivalent. From there you might if you feel the need look at training in something else as well. but I think its a bad idea to try and learn two arts at once..

My Sanda Sifu would agree. He had no problem with my taiji, I had trained i for many years, but he had a prolem with my Xingyquan because he could not understand how I cold be a beginner at both Xingyi and Sanda and do any training justice.


It really depends on what they are and your state of development. Once you've got a firm grounding in one thing it's easier to pick up another without having all the cross-training issues. There are more problems when the disciplines you're studying are very similar. Karate and Thai boxing are close enough that there will be some serious cross-training difficulties. Karate and archery not so much. Then you have the "too many girlfriends problem". If you do too many different martial arts at once you won't get too far in any of them. There's a certain amount of uninterrupted study that's required to burn in a martial art. If you're doing a whole bunch of stuff you may have a lot of fun picking and choosing, but you'll never be able to get past the beginning stages at any one of them. How many is too many? When is too soon? There's no single answer to that question. It varies a lot from person to person. At the same time there's a point of diminishing returns in everything. If you train a thousand hours a day eight days a week in one system there will come a point where the extra time you're putting in isn't getting you that much farther. You'll get more out of your classes and personal practice by doing something complementary. All the BS about loyalty to the spirit of the Art is just that. These are ways that people figured out about how to fight. They aren't the Unholy Ichor of Great Cthulhu. All of the Great Men of Old learned stuff, learned other stuff and mixed it together to suit. Progress in the martial arts came from them standing up, dusting themselves off and saying "Well, that didn't work. If I'm going to fight him I'll need to try something else" or looking at the bodies lying on the floor and thinking "Damn. I've really got to figure out how to deal with that before I come up against it."

Hey, How do you know my first MA teacher the Unholy Ichor of Great Cthulhu :D

Agreed

[YoungMan]

Practicing one style seriously will take a great deal of your time, energy, and commitment. How in the world do you practice two or more, and still balance work, family, school, friends, and other aspects of life? That's why when I see so called "Grandmasters" who claim high ranks in multiple arts, I think "yeah right". High rank in one is a major commitment. Anything more would be impossible.

[tellner]

Rank and skill are two entirely different things. One of them is status in an organization. The other is knowledge and ability. Personally, I'm more interested in the second than the first. Remember what I said earlier. Every single martial arts style and system out there is the result of someone combining things from more than one source to make something that (in his or her opinion) worked better. If they'd had your attitude we'd still be at the stick and stone stage. Yes, the parade of belts, twelve sixth dans, a tenth, a fifteenth, two seconds and a fourth is ridiculous. But I know a fair number of people with solid credentials in several things. Teaching certificates in a couple kinds of Eskrima, a Black Belt in BJJ, an Associate Instructor under Guru Inosanto, a Thai boxing teaching credential (and a few professional fights to go along with it) and a Guru in a style of Silat? That's very common. And every one of them means something.

[geezer]

[quote=JadecloudAlchemist;928167]I study multiple styles. After I learned one form in one style which took about 5-6 months to be decent. I had the choice to perfect it or move on to another form within the style or pick a different style to try the first form. I decided to learn from the new style and learn the first form which again took about 5-6 months. quote]
Snort! You've got to be kidding. If you can grasp anything with any depth in 5-6 months, you are either the most gifted MAer around or you're kidding yourself. Cross training can be very useful, but you have to be realistic. I suggest that you take a close look at what the others are saying here, especially the wise old guy with the Pavaroctopus singing the Wagnerian tribute to the "Old Ones".

[ChingChuan]

Apart from all the things like getting a solid base in one art, not overdoing it, etc, I think it's important that you really want to learn that second/third / fourth / etc art.

I've been interested in the sword arts since I was about nine, but I've never been able to study them because there is no-one who teaches it in my city. Though I was a bit of a martial arts freak, it 'died' down a bit and I never realized that I could also study another art, so I just 'forgot' about it after a while. Two years ago, however, I decided that I really needed to get some physical exercise because I had muscle aches after every P.E. class, so eventually I discovered Pencak Silat and started following classes. My old 'passion' for martial arts was revived again by reading things on the internet and the desire to start learning Iaido (or another sword art) grew and grew... Now I'm 17 and old enough to travel to another city to learn Iaido, so now I cross train in Iaido & Jodo, even though one can't say that I've got a solid grounding in Pencak Silat (I've been doing it for only two years). The only problems that I've encountered regarding cross training so far are about the stances (the stances in Iaido & Jodo all have the feet pointing to the front) and the way you look at your opponent (I've been taught to look at the shoulders / base of throat' and in Jodo you meet their eyes). Now I've practiced a bit and I think I'm fairly able to differentiate between the two. It only takes a bit of practice / effort and if you are willing to do that, what's the problem? If you really want to learn a second art (for whatever reason) and willing to put in the effort, I think you'll be able to do it...

Of course, it would be stupid to start training three arts without any experience in one, because learning a martial art itself has to be learned. It's the same with 'normal' schooling - in primary school you aren't taught as much subjects as in high school because you need to learn how to study- you need to get used to using your body in a certain way. But I don't think that this learning phase has to last until you are very proficient in your primary art... It's all about your own motivations.

[jks9199]

[quote=JadecloudAlchemist;928167]I study multiple styles. After I learned one form in one style which took about 5-6 months to be decent. I had the choice to perfect it or move on to another form within the style or pick a different style to try the first form. I decided to learn from the new style and learn the first form which again took about 5-6 months. quote]
Snort! You've got to be kidding. If you can grasp anything with any depth in 5-6 months, you are either the most gifted MAer around or you're kidding yourself. Cross training can be very useful, but you have to be realistic. I suggest that you take a close look at what the others are saying here, especially the wise old guy with the Pavaroctopus singing the Wagnerian tribute to the "Old Ones".
I disagree; it depends on the form and the student's background. I'd expect an experienced student to achieve a pretty high level of understanding of our first form in only a few months. In fact, I've seen people with no prior training learn THAT form well, with good understanding, in only a few months. It's a pretty simple & direct form.

But there are other forms that do take years to really learn and understand.

[geezer]

[quote=geezer;929161]
I disagree; it depends on the form and the student's background. I'd expect an experienced student to achieve a pretty high level of understanding of our first form in only a few months. In fact, I've seen people with no prior training learn THAT form well, with good understanding, in only a few months. It's a pretty simple & direct form.

But there are other forms that do take years to really learn and understand.

You're probably right if you are talking about an experienced practitioner learning another form in a similar style. But if you're talking about a green belt jumping from Shotokan to Tai Chi to Bjj to Wing Chun to...? I'd really have my doubts. If you are trying to learn significantly different arts and do more than scratch the surface, it's going to take some time.

[JadecloudAlchemist]

You've got to be kidding. If you can grasp anything with any depth in 5-6 months, you are either the most gifted MAer around or you're kidding yourself. Cross training can be very useful, but you have to be realistic. I suggest that you take a close look at what the others are saying here, especially the wise old guy with the Pavaroctopus singing the Wagnerian tribute to the "Old Ones". 5-6 months of doing the same form over and over again does not mean I have Learned it in depth which I never claimed. I did claim if to learn it decent enough and of course to the satisfaction of MY TEACHER otherwise I would not be allowed to move on the next part of the form. Also I do go back and go into the form in depth just in my training I do things differently.
Another reason as I stated before is you get as much as you put in meaning for one part of the form I learn do I practice that form for at least an hour a day. So if the form has 8 parts and I learn a new part once a week that would be 2 months in which my form was not up to par another 4 months does the form look good enough to my teacher.
I hope that clarifies things a bit more.

[MJS]

Yes, IMHO, it is possible to train in more than one style at a time. Usually, the first concern that comes up is, "How do you find the time?" Well, sure, that can be an issue. Most of us work 40hrs a week, sometimes more, and there are only so many classes a week and only so much time you can devote, so....

Now, while everyones goals will vary, I do it not for the rank, but for the sake of learning and expanding my knowledge. After around 10yrs, on and off, due to my work schedule, I tested last month for my Black Belt in Arnis. I tested with 3 others who also have many years in, but never tested on a regular basis. Was that a concern for me, that it took that long? Not really, because as I said, I'm not chasing rank.

Another concern is "Can you be effective if you're only training in something 1 or 2 times a week?" IMO, yes. Sure, you progress at a slower pace, but again, what are your goals? To learn an art or to test every month so you can have a new belt to hang on the wall? Of course, supplementing those classes with privates and informal workouts is also a big plus. :)

I do feel that you should have a base art first, before taking something else on. Myself, Kenpo is my base, and I didn't cross train until I was Brown. The 3 arts..Kenpo, Arnis and BJJ blend very well.

[YoungMan]

As another poster said, if you plan on studying two or more arts together, better have a good divorce lawyer on reatiner, because no wife (unless she is extremely understanding and doesn't mind not seeing you) would put up with that.

[JadecloudAlchemist]

studying two or more arts together, better have a good divorce lawyer on reatiner, because no wife (unless she is extremely understanding and doesn't mind not seeing you) would put up with that. I study 2 arts and I work a 40 hour work week and still managed to see my wife and spend time. If you know how to manage your time it works out fine.

[MJS]

I study 2 arts and I work a 40 hour work week and still managed to see my wife and spend time. If you know how to manage your time it works out fine.

Yes, I second that!!! My wife works days (8:30am to 5pm) Monday thru Friday, weekends and holidays off. I work 4pm-12am all the time. My days off rotate every 3 weeks, so needless to say, her and I are like 2 ships passing in the night.

I was training in the arts long before I met her, so she knew that this was something I enjoy and didn't plan on stopping. She is supportive of my training and even on days when we're off together and it happens to be one of my training days, I always make time with her afterwards. :) Like you said, if you know how to manage your time, it works out! :)