Vegan martial artists...?

[taitsechien]

just wondering if there are any vegan martial artists out there... if your training is better or worse because of your diet... that type of stuff... i personally am vegan and train in muay thai, fu style tai chi, and gen-jitsu karate... and i think that veganism has really picked up my game...

[chinto]

just wondering if there are any vegan martial artists out there... if your training is better or worse because of your diet... that type of stuff... i personally am vegan and train in muay thai, fu style tai chi, and gen-jitsu karate... and i think that veganism has really picked up my game...

well where I live in the past there was a name for vegans ... dead in the winter.
vegans are a modern thing in the world except for very very mild climates. you can not survive on only plant produced food in colder climates and with out some sumplaments is unable to provide you with all the nutrients needed. Humans are omnivores and need the mix of animal meat and fish and vegetation and nuts in variety to be healthy.

[Doc_Jude]

Some vegan guy named Danzig (yeah, I know. It's cool) just won his weight class on that Ultimate Fighter show. Serious competition, all those guys are serious athletes.
I read his diet posted somewhere but I don't remember where, look it up.

[Doc_Jude]

well where I live in the past there was a name for vegans ... dead in the winter.
Yeah, I've heard that old joke too.


vegans are a modern thing in the world except for very very mild climates. you can not survive on only plant produced food in colder climates and with out some sumplaments is unable to provide you with all the nutrients needed. Humans are omnivores and need the mix of animal meat and fish and vegetation and nuts in variety to be healthy.

Humans aren't omnivorous. Higher order primates get no more than 5% animal protein in their diets (see Goodall) and the majority of that is insect matter, which happens to be twice as bioavailable to our rather long digestive tract. They only rarely eat anything larger, occasionally bushpigs & the like, about 2% of their diet annually being meat. Who knows what we could do if we ate like our primate cousins that we share almost 99% genetics with (apes, chimps, bonoboes, orangutans). A chimp half your size can tear your arm off & beat you to death with it if he wants to. Raw foods, mostly greens and fresh fruit.

"Omnivorous" is a bit of a misnomer. 95+% Raw Vegan would be more accurate.

[Shuto]

link (http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB120122116182915297-lMyQjAxMDI4MDIxNTIyMjUxWj.html)

It's not exactly what you are looking for but here's a link to a WSJ article about Tony Gonzales, an NFL athlete who is a vegan.

[Jin Gang]

Yes, I know many vegan martial artists. Back in Boulder, Colorado, there is practically a whole commune of them. I have been vegetarian, but not vegan. I don't know that it affected my training one way or the other, it didn't have any negative effect.

[kaizasosei]

im not a vegan or even a vegetarian...actually i love a good steak, roast beet and even raw things like various sashimi. however, in my experience, there are countless troubles that can be avoided by not eating meat. from digestion issues to viruses and disease, one should look to eat meat for its nutritional value, but in my opinion that is more like a once/twice/three times ok, but not everyday. another reason is you can't know the exact quality unless you know the land the creature and how the meat was handled or treated. this applies to fish also, although it is probably the healthier meat in most cases.
best to have diverse eating habits and eat tons of vegetable and fruits.


j

[taitsechien]

who said dead in the winter... ha ha... i live in utah... it gets pretty cold out here during the winter and i survive just fine... If your vegan you can survive as long as you eat right and take conscience steps towards getting everything you need out of your diet... i admit when i first became vegan i didn't pay much a attention to my body... i just ate pp and js all day... and i got sick... but now i feel much better... and i train pretty hard... i box Monday Wednesday and friday mornings... i do muay thai tuesday and thursday nights... i do fu style tai chi on wednesday nights... and saturday mornings i just open train... i'm also on an indoor soccer team... far from dead in the water... in fact i'm probably swimming faster than some of my non vegan friends... haha

[Doc_Jude]

who said dead in the winter... ha ha... i live in utah... it gets pretty cold out here during the winter and i survive just fine... If your vegan you can survive as long as you eat right and take conscience steps towards getting everything you need out of your diet... i admit when i first became vegan i didn't pay much a attention to my body... i just ate pp and js all day... and i got sick... but now i feel much better... and i train pretty hard... i box Monday Wednesday and friday mornings... i do muay thai tuesday and thursday nights... i do fu style tai chi on wednesday nights... and saturday mornings i just open train... i'm also on an indoor soccer team... far from dead in the water... in fact i'm probably swimming faster than some of my non vegan friends... haha

The thing about eating meat... we can survive on it, yes, we can get plenty of nutrients out of it. But, try eating 95% meat and 5% fruits&veggies, see how long you last. Reverse that to 95% fruit&veg and 5% meat, you'll have a optimum body & great health.

I think he was talking about being vegetarian in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word. The shift towards more meat allowed us to get out of East Africa, allowed us to survive the last Ice Age and circumnavigate the globe, since you don't know what plants are poisonous or not from one place to the next w/o experimentation. On the other hand, a deer is a deer, a pig is a pig, a duck is a duck, a rat is a rat, a fish is a fish(for the most part). The only rule is if you don't know the animal well, stay away from the organs.

[Sanchin-J]

I can't imagine much would change in regards to your studies and practice, as long as your diet kept in mind some of the more important things you need as a physically active person. You'll want your calcium, vitamins, some protein, etc, all of which can be obtained without eating meat.

Speaking as the guy who in his younger years rose to the challenge in our local steak house of consuming "The Big One" however, I think I pretty much lose all real credibility when speaking about vegetarian diet so that's an issue in itself you'll have to explore hehe.

[taitsechien]

oh... hunter gatherers... that makes sense but i we have come along way since the times when we needed to hunt to survive and progress... if you look at things for what they are... you don't need meat to survive... i'm definitely not here to preach... veganism is a personal choice... i just strongly believe that cutting meat and diary from my diet has helped me grow in my martial arts... it might just be in my head...

[HelloKitty]

I think the really important think for a vegan thinking on training hard in martial arts is going to the doctor and ask about it. It's not just a thing of just only vegetables or related, stop eating meat, etc. Because OK you don't need meat to SURVIVE, but intense physical activities such as MA are very demanding.

[chinto]

who said dead in the winter... ha ha... i live in utah... it gets pretty cold out here during the winter and i survive just fine... If your vegan you can survive as long as you eat right and take conscience steps towards getting everything you need out of your diet... i admit when i first became vegan i didn't pay much a attention to my body... i just ate pp and js all day... and i got sick... but now i feel much better... and i train pretty hard... i box Monday Wednesday and friday mornings... i do muay thai tuesday and thursday nights... i do fu style tai chi on wednesday nights... and saturday mornings i just open train... i'm also on an indoor soccer team... far from dead in the water... in fact i'm probably swimming faster than some of my non vegan friends... haha

actually if you are a strict vegan and in a cold environment with out central heating and modern helps like that ... dead in winter is reality. in a cold environment you need more calories then vegetable matter can give you. think of the kind of calories that a combat troop would burn in a snowing freezing aria .. that is the kind of calories you need to have to survive with out central heating... before all the modern conveniences . humans do not have the gut length that any of the other primates have, and so can not get as much nutrition out of vegetation. Our brains need more nutrition and meat and fish are very very high in nutritional density. so before all the modern conveniences and vitamins and other supliments a vegen would not make it.. a vegetarian who did dairy might with enough butter and cream and eggs in the diet as they provide the calories from the fats and the proteins you need in a high stress environment like a cold climate. tropical ones you could survive possibly.

[Carol]

Personally, I am very uncomfortable with "promoting" a type of diet. I have a helluva lot better things to do than to micromanage what someone else eats.

But for me? I went (back) to being a vegetarian on New Year's. My kitchen is vegan (except for the cat food), and I'm happy with the choice. If I wasn't, I wouldn't still be following it.

[chinto]

Personally, I am very uncomfortable with "promoting" a type of diet. I have a helluva lot better things to do than to micromanage what someone else eats.

But for me? I went (back) to being a vegetarian on New Year's. My kitchen is vegan (except for the cat food), and I'm happy with the choice. If I wasn't, I wouldn't still be following it.

good for you! just thank technology, and our modern conveyances for the fact that you do have that option. up until about 1920-25 for most people in the United states and the rest of the world the problem was to get enough calories to survive. today it seems that for much of the world that is very much not the problem.

[Carol]

good for you! just thank technology, and our modern conveyances for the fact that you do have that option. up until about 1920-25 for most people in the United states and the rest of the world the problem was to get enough calories to survive. today it seems that for much of the world that is very much not the problem.

Completely agree.

For me, the choice I made is possible because of technology, but it was also made in spite of it. Technology has brought about many wonders, but along with it came overly processed foods and a sedentary lifestyle. I see it as my body reacting to the environment I'm currently in. I feel better with the diet that I'm following. If I were to relocate up to...say...Alaska, and had to live life out on the Bering Strait....I suspect my vegetarian habits would go out the window quite quickly :D

[taitsechien]

actually if you are a strict vegan and in a cold environment with out central heating and modern helps like that ... dead in winter is reality. in a cold environment you need more calories then vegetable matter can give you. think of the kind of calories that a combat troop would burn in a snowing freezing aria .. that is the kind of calories you need to have to survive with out central heating... before all the modern conveniences . humans do not have the gut length that any of the other primates have, and so can not get as much nutrition out of vegetation. Our brains need more nutrition and meat and fish are very very high in nutritional density. so before all the modern conveniences and vitamins and other supliments a vegen would not make it.. a vegetarian who did dairy might with enough butter and cream and eggs in the diet as they provide the calories from the fats and the proteins you need in a high stress environment like a cold climate. tropical ones you could survive possibly.

... i happen to know a few overweight vegans haha
i think being a strict vegan in a primitive place without heat or modern conveniences has plenty of problems... for example if you don't kill animals you won't have fur to wear and keep you warm... but things, like tofu (which is high in vitamins), have been around much longer than "modern technology"... and foods like pasta for example are a good source of calories, and carbohydrates... also mans ability to create fire is a wonderful way to keep warm... about gut length the human digestive system is twelve times the length of the body... Carvivores animals have a very small digestive tract... meat takes much longer to digest... and creates excess waste... the idea of... in a cold environment feeding an animal grains and vegtables so you can later eat the animal seems a bit silly... when you could just eat the grains and vegtables for yourself... although eating meat was a necesity for surival when we where in a very primitive state(before the invention of tools)... i feel that we, or i personally, do not need meat in my diet it all, or any animal byproduct for that matter...

if i ever come across as offensive please let me know... i'm only trying to explain my beliefs... and learn about others... since becoming vegans i've realized there are flaws to my diet... and by discussing it with nonvegans... i can learn to better my diet...

[geezer]

actually if you are a strict vegan and in a cold environment with out central heating and modern helps like that ... dead in winter is reality. in a cold environment you need more calories then vegetable matter can give you. think of the kind of calories that a combat troop would burn in a snowing freezing aria .. that is the kind of calories you need to have to survive with out central heating... before all the modern conveniences . humans do not have the gut length that any of the other primates have, and so can not get as much nutrition out of vegetation. Our brains need more nutrition and meat and fish are very very high in nutritional density. so before all the modern conveniences and vitamins and other supliments a vegen would not make it.. a vegetarian who did dairy might with enough butter and cream and eggs in the diet as they provide the calories from the fats and the proteins you need in a high stress environment like a cold climate. tropical ones you could survive possibly.

In modern times, couldn't you get enough calories and remain vegan by eating massive amounts of chocolate...or ....donuts? --mmmmmm

[taitsechien]

In modern times, couldn't you get enough calories and remain vegan by eating massive amounts of chocolate...or ....donuts? --mmmmmm
haha... way good idea...

[chinto]

In modern times, couldn't you get enough calories and remain vegan by eating massive amounts of chocolate...or ....donuts? --mmmmmm

in modern times you provably could.. but there are other nutrients that may or may not be lacking depending on diet.. once agian modern technology is your savior that way.

[Doc_Jude]

in modern times you provably could.. but there are other nutrients that may or may not be lacking depending on diet.. once agian modern technology is your savior that way.

Modern Technology is the savior of Human meat eaters, too. Much more so, buddy :roflmao:

[mijemi]

I'm not vegan but have been vegetarian since I was 12 and feel that I am healthier in some ways for it which would certainly help my martial arts. However, I need to watch my diet exactly else I very quickly go downhill and fatigue which leaves me with no energy to train.

[geezer]

Yeah, I've heard that old joke too.
A chimp half your size can tear your arm off & beat you to death with it if he wants to. Raw foods, mostly greens and fresh fruit.
"Omnivorous" is a bit of a misnomer. 95+% Raw Vegan would be more accurate.

OK, I admit it, I was just joking around about "massive amouts of chocolate". I do love chocolate, but swore off the stuff last June while getting in shape for a summer escrima camp. By September or October, I had dropped from 190# to 150#. Now I eat massive amounts of bananas, and other fruits and veggies for snacks, and I have been doing a lot of pull-ups, brachiating (hand-over-hand swinging) and knuckle walking along the floor. I find myself disenchanted with my overly cerebral Wing Chun training and feeling a strong attraction for grappling arts. You know, the ones where you can tear the arm off someone twice your size. And my wife says I'm getting hairier every day.

[Mic]

i agree with out the tech we have today most places a vegan would not survive.Also i am offended by being compaired to a monkey, i do not think of myself as a primate but as a man which is very different no matter what DNA says.But when it comes down to it i think callcium you get from dairy and proten you get from meet are better sorces then soy and such, besides just that thought of a juciy stake prepaired very rare makes my mouth tingle and water lol.

[geezer]

i agree with out the tech we have today most places a vegan would not survive.Also i am offended by being compaired to a monkey, i do not think of myself as a primate but as a man which is very different no matter what DNA says.

No reason to get racist, or rather SPECIES-IST! First off, Chipanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangs, and even baboons are not monkeys, but great apes. Let us not denigrate our primate cousins, but rather learn from them. Now settle down and have a banana, you'll feel better.

[chinto]

... i happen to know a few overweight vegans haha
i think being a strict vegan in a primitive place without heat or modern conveniences has plenty of problems... for example if you don't kill animals you won't have fur to wear and keep you warm... but things, like tofu (which is high in vitamins), have been around much longer than "modern technology"... and foods like pasta for example are a good source of calories, and carbohydrates... also mans ability to create fire is a wonderful way to keep warm... about gut length the human digestive system is twelve times the length of the body... Carvivores animals have a very small digestive tract... meat takes much longer to digest... and creates excess waste... the idea of... in a cold environment feeding an animal grains and vegtables so you can later eat the animal seems a bit silly... when you could just eat the grains and vegtables for yourself... although eating meat was a necesity for surival when we where in a very primitive state(before the invention of tools)... i feel that we, or i personally, do not need meat in my diet it all, or any animal byproduct for that matter...

if i ever come across as offensive please let me know... i'm only trying to explain my beliefs... and learn about others... since becoming vegans i've realized there are flaws to my diet... and by discussing it with nonvegans... i can learn to better my diet...


ok, fat has a lot more calories then carbohydrates do, meat has more nutrition for the weight the vegetables do, though again to much of any thing including water is a bad thing too.... the biggest problem for people into the early 20th century was to NOT starve to death or suffer from malnutrition. we, humans are Omnivores. its simple, we need a balanced diet of animal and/or fish and/or dairy product proteins and fruits and vegetables to get all the nutrition and calories to survive. you can in an equatorial or similar climate survive on only vegetables,and fruits, but only if you are not doing a lot of hard labor or other wise stressed badly. the technology we have now reduces the calories needed by heating the spaces we live in, and the amount of hard physical labor we need to do. so yes you can be a vegan and survive, but if you are say doing hard manual labor.. then its unlikely you can do so even short term if there is cold or any other stresses on you and get enough calories from vegetables and fruits and grains. That is why combat rations are not vegetarian with out some kind of fats added. my great uncle was a dairy farmer till he died. even with central heating he burned over 7,000 calories every day!!! a combat soldier in combat is expected even in warm weather to burn at least 5000 calores a day... usually more. in a cold climate like mountain warfare or arctic warfare they figure a lot closer to 12,000 calories a day is needed to sustain them....

[taitsechien]

... although i disagree with chinto on most points... i think that i've strayed from what i was going for on this thread... i feel that being vegan has helped me really step up my training... i feel that my body is now better prepared for internal training... if there are other vegans... or people that have had experienced a change from their diet (good or bad) in martial arts... i'd like to hear about it...

[Doc_Jude]

ok, fat has a lot more calories then carbohydrates do, meat has more nutrition for the weight the vegetables do, though again to much of any thing including water is a bad thing too.... the biggest problem for people into the early 20th century was to NOT starve to death or suffer from malnutrition. we, humans are Omnivores. its simple, we need a balanced diet of animal and/or fish and/or dairy product proteins and fruits and vegetables to get all the nutrition and calories to survive. you can in an equatorial or similar climate survive on only vegetables,and fruits, but only if you are not doing a lot of hard labor or other wise stressed badly. the technology we have now reduces the calories needed by heating the spaces we live in, and the amount of hard physical labor we need to do. so yes you can be a vegan and survive, but if you are say doing hard manual labor.. then its unlikely you can do so even short term if there is cold or any other stresses on you and get enough calories from vegetables and fruits and grains. That is why combat rations are not vegetarian with out some kind of fats added. my great uncle was a dairy farmer till he died. even with central heating he burned over 7,000 calories every day!!! a combat soldier in combat is expected even in warm weather to burn at least 5000 calores a day... usually more. in a cold climate like mountain warfare or arctic warfare they figure a lot closer to 12,000 calories a day is needed to sustain them....

So... anyways...

This guy is VEGAN...
http://www.peta2.com/outthere/page/200-macdanzig_pledge.jpg

So is this guy...
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/d/d9/Holmes.keith.jpg

So is this guy ( the bigger guy on the right) ...
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f114/jim_jude_3/l_6e14e9057dc92ed0a574a3b18b4f8f2f.jpg

So is this guy...
http://www.petakids.com/feat/xtremeVeg/photos/colin.jpg

Since we're living in the 21st Century, we can look at these guys and see that a vegetarian or vegan diet can be VERY positive for martial artist and serious athletes.

[Doc_Jude]

i agree with out the tech we have today most places a vegan would not survive.Also i am offended by being compaired to a monkey, i do not think of myself as a primate but as a man which is very different no matter what DNA says.But when it comes down to it i think callcium you get from dairy and proten you get from meet are better sorces then soy and such, besides just that thought of a juciy stake prepaired very rare makes my mouth tingle and water lol.

I've never wanted to eat a "juciy stake". Is that some new kind of brain food???
Oh, & despite what you might like or not, you're a hominid. It's genetics, get over it. You've got +98% identical genetics with all these guys...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Bonobo.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Orangutan.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Pongo-Headshot.jpg
http://www.ideaphotos.com/Video-Clips-Slide-Shows/Funny-White-Gorrila-Smiling.jpg
Fortunately, belief is not required.

[chinto]

hay feel free to be vegan if you wish.. I would suggest you make sure you check with a physician and dietitian and other health care professionals if you train hard.... my point was that 100 years ago you could not be one and train and be healthy.. today is not 100 years ago..... if you are happy and use the vitamins that they suggest you can do so now... if that is what you want.. go for it! but do not say some how that is how humans were intended or evolved to live... that would be both a lie and stupidity. with modern technology and conveniences, it is viable, but that is your choice. I am not convinced it is optimal.

[Doc_Jude]

hay feel free to be vegan if you wish.. I would suggest you make sure you check with a physician and dietitian and other health care professionals if you train hard.... my point was that 100 years ago you could not be one and train and be healthy.. today is not 100 years ago..... if you are happy and use the vitamins that they suggest you can do so now... if that is what you want.. go for it! but do not say some how that is how humans were intended or evolved to live... that would be both a lie and stupidity. with modern technology and conveniences, it is viable, but that is your choice. I am not convinced it is optimal.

Okay. Thanks.

[Josh Oakley]

hay feel free to be vegan if you wish.. I would suggest you make sure you check with a physician and dietitian and other health care professionals if you train hard.... my point was that 100 years ago you could not be one and train and be healthy.. today is not 100 years ago..... if you are happy and use the vitamins that they suggest you can do so now... if that is what you want.. go for it! but do not say some how that is how humans were intended or evolved to live... that would be both a lie and stupidity. with modern technology and conveniences, it is viable, but that is your choice. I am not convinced it is optimal.

Tell that one to the Shaolin monks.

[chinto]

Tell that one to the Shaolin monks.

my understanding is that the shaolin monks historically ate some meat a few times a year or at least at eggs and cheese and such that would give them the fats and other things they need. the southern temple in fuchou province would have had fish from time to time I am sure .. and eggs.
you can not train hard on veggies alone with out some kind of protein's added. even beens and rice under real stress fall short. but there were times when 1/2 of china was malnourished as well... some are today I am sure too. there is a reason that the Japanese gained an average hight increase of about 6 inches between 1945 and 1965! its called nutrition.
like I said before as an adult, eat how you wish, but please for gods sakes do not put infants and young children on vegin diets!!! there are graves with infants and small children in them because adults were that irresponsible!

[Doc_Jude]

http://www.vegsource.com/

Please folks. The site above is an infinitely better resource for info on vegetarian/vegan diets than some of the posts here (that are largely opinion).
Happy reading.

[Bodhisattva]

just wondering if there are any vegan martial artists out there... if your training is better or worse because of your diet... that type of stuff... i personally am vegan and train in muay thai, fu style tai chi, and gen-jitsu karate... and i think that veganism has really picked up my game...

I train MMA and am not vegan but am vegetarian.

I think the lack of meat definitely hurts me athletically but am vegetarian for ethical reasons.

I make up for it with cage free eggs and cheese.

[TheOriginalName]

If i may throw in my 2 cents: Diets are very personal things. What works for one person may not work for another. We each have slightly different bio-chemistry and motabilisms and thus each of us will find that different things work best for us.

My ex-wife was at first a vegiterian and then became a vegan. It worked for her - but that said, she put a lot of energy and time into ensuring that she got all the nutrients and vitamens that she was missing due to the lack of meat and related products (eggs, dairy etc).

Personally i think any diet requires balance - but that if those who choose the vegan lifestyle (i call it a lifestyle because it does have effects beyond just diet) do their research and have the support of their doctors (you should consult a professional before making any radical change to your diet) then they can be as healthy as any meat eater.

Again the thing to stress here - it's all about balance and getting the nutrients that your body needs. If you don't fuel your body right then everything will go wrong.

So in my opinion, vegan or meat-eater it doesn't effect your training. The quality of the fuel you use for your body is what matters.