MA vs. Non MA in the civil service fields

[kailat]

Whether you work in : Security, Personal Protection, Corrections, Police, Bouncing, Doorman, Body Guarding etc... U get the point!

From anyone in these fields have you ever stated your martial arts training on your application? If so what was the outcome?

WHY I ASK:

Several years ago when I was trying to get into the law enforcement field, I was going to be a correctional officer/jailer at a County Jail.

Having passed through the initial phases of testing I had to go in on an interview. Upon the interview it was brought up that I was a Martial Artist and I had listed all my accomplishments and the disciplines I studied etc..
To make a long story short I feel I was singled out and not hired due to my training. One officer in general made it a point to haggle and make snide comments and remarks during the interview concerning martial artist and training etc..

Anyway it left a bad taste in my mouth and since I have never mentioned my martial arts ever on an app or during an interview.

It wasn't until later on as i worked in the correctional field (diff location) that my training was obviosly becoming to light as we were going through our annual "defensive tactics course". I just had always done the program never once leading on my background. I seen many individuals who come in stateing they were such and such black belts in this system or that system and had this all high and mighty I can do that better attitude. The minute they got thier button pushed by an offender and got squashed their egos were bruised and they disapeared from the job. Its kinda comical now looking back on it.

After several years in that work environment I never was harmed or attacked by offenders because my quietness and abilities quickly began to speak for themselves. Till one day was finally approached and asked what I train in. It was obvious my take downs, Defense, joint locks were far cleaner than even those that taught the DT courses.. I never let on to all that I done. About 4 years ago I was doing a DT course for my job and the teacher was someone I had never met before but he impressed me enough to talk to him aftr the class. Come to find out we had alot in common and he had FMA background. We later hit it off and became friends and he started having me help out teaching Police depts and the SWAT in our town. Needless to say it later landed me a position on the police dept. and I am now a certified Defensive Tactics Instructor and developed alot of respect amongst our dept and staff.

So my initial question I guess is after my rant. Has anyone ever felt singled out or haggled by others due to your MA training and or background?

[swiftpete]

Well I can't say I've been singled out in a work environment for that, other than general stuff like 'hey ninja, jump up there and fix that', generally light heartedly as my workpartner knows I train. In my personal life though, I don't like anyone knowing that I train as I find whenever the subject comes up then people start saying negative comments. Not sure why really but anyone that doesn't train usually has something to say about it and the people that do train are defending whatever it is they do.

Most of my mates don't even know that I now have my second dan or even that I got my first, as I see it as a personal thing, one of my best mates, who I train with and is the same grade knows (obviously!) but I just can't see any advantages of telling other people, especially strangers/aquaintances.

[TKDJUDO]

In my personal life though, I don't like anyone knowing that I train as I find whenever the subject comes up then people start saying negative comments. Not sure why really but anyone that doesn't train usually has something to say about it and the people that do train are defending whatever it is they do.


I agree. Sometimes, people criticize you for your art even though they dont practice it! What really aggravates me the most is when they say that it sucks or its not practical.



It's kinda surprising that you weren't hired at your first interview because don't correctional officers need some kind of training to defend themselves against criminals ? Anyways, it's good that you landed another job because seems like the second job is more rewarding

[kailat]

"It's kinda surprising that you weren't hired at your first interview because don't correctional officers need some kind of training to defend themselves against criminals ? Anyways, it's good that you landed another job because seems like the second job is more rewarding "

TKDJUDO;

Yeah it could of been my age at the time, could of been my lack of experience I don't know. It was my first type law enforcement interview so I was totally unprepaired for a "BOARD" type interview. One thing they always do is throw many questions at you by 5 or 6 different people. I think it was kinda intimidating to me at that time. Of course the more of these type of interviews you do, the more comfortable you get w/ them and after a few you become a pro at them LOL...

Nonetheless I also think the one officer that was criticizing me and ostracising my martial arts background was either A) trying to see me fold on his questions or B) just got a kick out of putting someone down. ALot of people out there like that ya know?

Truth:: The one thing i've found after working in corrections or law enforcement for the past several years, and Police are the worst in my personal opinion they have the "Im better than you attitude".. Myself being a sworn police officer one thing I will never do is have that attitude nor will I ever stoop to having this "holier than though" mentality. I know so many of those ALL & Mighty mentalities in the field. MAN its just discouraging. But all thats for another topic / discussion ; )

At anyrate yes I think there is alot of greatness, and appreciation that comes within my field.

After all that was my whole purpose to get into this field " to help others" not destroy them.

[Xue Sheng]

I worked security for a state office and a state college and I never mentioned or put on a resume or application that I trained any martial art. But after I went to work I eventually mentioned it and I never had any issues with anyone because of it. The only issue I ever had was one guy I worked with grabbed the triple section staff I had brought in that night, because someone asked to see it, and he started the Bruce Lee noises and tried swinging it around, I asked him to stop and he didn't listen but then he hit a nearby sign breaking it into a few pieces and causing a recoil that hit him in the head. I had repeatedly told him prior to this that it was not a toy.

Another guy I worked with at this same job was a boxer and he was constantly asking me about joint locking but other that that I had no issues.

I did mention the fact I trained martial arts at one interview for a job in security at a hospital and it did help me get the job actually.

[Taiji_Mantis]

I used to put it down on applications, but I don't anymore. Most of the time in my experience, it doesn't mater anyway. Respective Departments have their own training requirements (usually PPCT or CDT) that are conducted annually, and that is what they use to meet their requirements. All of the cops I trained with trained in BJJ regularly anyway,and in my opinion the four or eight hours a year is hardly enough for training.

I am currently an instructor for the Asset Protection and Protective Services Industry. Part of the IFPO based curriculum is defensive tactics, and I am certified to teach PPCT Defensive Tactics (ground avoidance ground escape), but I have a MMA friend of mine come in to train my students in a much more consistent fashion.

Will they put that on their resumes? No. But the CERTIFICATION offered by PPCT (soon to be Warrior Science) will be on them for sure. For some reason that is more employable than saying "black belt."

[tshadowchaser]

I used to put it down on app. but stoped as I really do not want people knowing I study. I thought at one time that stateing that i had practiced for "X" number of years would show that I could be didicated and that I strived to keep doing what I was doing and learning but I found that most employers (unless they study) could care less and lok on the people who study as "brawlers, nuts, etc.

[terryl965]

I used to put it down on app. but stoped as I really do not want people knowing I study. I thought at one time that stateing that i had practiced for "X" number of years would show that I could be didicated and that I strived to keep doing what I was doing and learning but I found that most employers (unless they study) could care less and lok on the people who study as "brawlers, nuts, etc.



I have to agree.

[jks9199]

Like anything else on a resume, if you think it'll boost your chances or make you look better than another candidate, put it down. If it's relevant, be sure to put it down, though I probably wouldn't list most ranks below black belt or the equivalent. So, if you're applying to be a phys ed teacher, or a personal trainer -- it's probably worth listing. For a computer programmer? Probably not. For security or law enforcement... There's no solid answer. Most LE agencies will ask you to list any and all organizations you're a member of; that's probably all you need to do to list it, unless they ask specifically. Realize that most private security companies or LE agencies don't really care if you've got a dozen black belts, unless you also have recognized certificates of directly related training, like PPCT, Tony Bluaer's SPEAR, etc. or military/LE defensive tactics certifications that pertain to the job. If they're looking for night watchmen or door guards... they don't want green beret wannabes that are going to create a nightmare when they jump someone.

[Guardian]

I have never listed it on my resume or an application, now if the interviewer ask me, then I will give alittle brief on my qualifications, just enough though to convey a point and that's it, other then that I keep that out of it.

[Sagat]

I've always had it on my resume, it's a big part of my life, it's nothing to be embarressed or ashamed about. Sure people might give you sh$t here and there, but it's always in good fun and who cares anyway?!?! If you train often enough, sooner or later they'll find out anyway.

I work in the security industry and I'd say it's helped me get jobs if anything.

If somoene doesn't hire me, they don't hire me. If it's because of my martial arts experience then f*#k em, I probably wouldn't want to work for them anyway.

I rememeber one interview in particular. When he asked me about my training, he told me he'd seen it [Muay Thai] on Foxtel and that it's 'pretty full on'

'I wouldn't want to meet you in a dark alley' he said to me.

I replied 'Actually you WOULD want to meet me in a dark alley, cause I have a good nature and cause of my training, you'd have a better chance getting out of there un-harmed'

Yeah, I got the job.

[punisher73]

I referenced it when I interviewed for the school liaison position I am currently in. It was a question about working with kids/teens etc. I used it as an example to teach communication skills, deescalation, how to deal with peer pressure etc. It impressed them alot, and was one of the things that tipped the scale in my favor.

Having worked in both the jail and LE, most of the people who talked about their skills were people who just had to feel better about themselves. I never talked about mine, but people quickly found out and asked questions after I "proved myself" in their eyes. Later it helped with me being selected to become a DT instructor for our department. I noticed though that the big negative attitudes usually came from the older guys that started in the 70's. Most of the younger guys didn't have problems with it.

As an aside one guy always brought in books on MA and even brought his "numchucks" in and was swinging them around and hit himself so hard in the head he almost knocked himself out. He was a good guy and a friend of mine, but people never forgot that and would bring it up years later.

[Paul B]

I have never brought it up on any job apps..probably because I never filled out an app for my first stint at "working the door."

My friend's Dad owns the bar..she knew I was looking for a part-time job and there you go.

I think it's probably not the best idea to put it out there unless it's a specific question during the interview,though. The general public's ideas about the people who study MA (and MA in itself) are rarely flattering.

Too many bad movies for them mean too many headaches for me while trying to explain exactly what it is that I "know." Meh..

[Bodhisattva]

"It's kinda surprising that you weren't hired at your first interview because don't correctional officers need some kind of training to defend themselves against criminals ? Anyways, it's good that you landed another job because seems like the second job is more rewarding "

TKDJUDO;

Yeah it could of been my age at the time, could of been my lack of experience I don't know. It was my first type law enforcement interview so I was totally unprepaired for a "BOARD" type interview. One thing they always do is throw many questions at you by 5 or 6 different people. I think it was kinda intimidating to me at that time. Of course the more of these type of interviews you do, the more comfortable you get w/ them and after a few you become a pro at them LOL...

Nonetheless I also think the one officer that was criticizing me and ostracising my martial arts background was either A) trying to see me fold on his questions or B) just got a kick out of putting someone down. ALot of people out there like that ya know?

Truth:: The one thing i've found after working in corrections or law enforcement for the past several years, and Police are the worst in my personal opinion they have the "Im better than you attitude".. Myself being a sworn police officer one thing I will never do is have that attitude nor will I ever stoop to having this "holier than though" mentality. I know so many of those ALL & Mighty mentalities in the field. MAN its just discouraging. But all thats for another topic / discussion ; )

At anyrate yes I think there is alot of greatness, and appreciation that comes within my field.

After all that was my whole purpose to get into this field " to help others" not destroy them.

Hm. I can't imagine that if I wanted to "help others" I'd choose police officer.

I might choose EMT, Fireman, Social Worker, or any of a hundred other jobs.

But not police officer.

[geezer]

Hm. I can't imagine that if I wanted to "help others" I'd choose police officer.I might choose EMT, Fireman, Social Worker, or any of a hundred other jobs.But not police officer.

Are you thinking about this from the perspective of the criminal or that of the rest of the people the Police are sworn "to protect and serve". Hell, I even have a friend who's a felon and he tells me that if the cops hadn't busted him, he'd be dead today. Funny how things work out sometimes.

[bootcampbj]

Hi Kailat, thanks for sharing your experience, I´ve had similar and I´m glad it´s worked our for you in the end. :)


As to your question, Ive worked in Private, Government and Commercial Security and found in each that I would always get somewhat singled out due to my Martial arts backround, I found it came down to the fact you work with so many people, there´s bound to be a certain percentage who react positively and negatively.

For the most part I´d say I got singled out positively more often but for little gain, where as the negative singling out was for substantial loss similar to your situation.


As you now know from your own experiences, in the security/law enforcement industries, it´s your character and personal skills employers most keenly identify with and hire on these days, they figure they can teach a good person all the skills needed for the job.

So I don´t go into my Martial arts backround unless asked, and try to keep it as humble as possible ¨just a hobby to keep me fit¨.

I´m quite similar to yourself, I keep it to myself, only my close friends generally know. It was that way even back in my youth.


- Bj

[MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE]

If there's one thing I learned in the Corps is that you don't volunteer for anything...especially information.

While going through the Corrections academy we were questioned if any had MA training. I kept silent. The guy that proudly claimed Karate experience got raked over the coals when he couldn't escape a very sneaky choke from behind grab. It got so bad for him he almost quit the academy.

At my current job I had to put my hands on someone and afterward got questioned if I knew a little "something". I claimed nothing other than what the job officially taught us. Which is something less said about. One day things will go FUBAR and the jackals will come looking for a sacrificial lamb. I won't be me because they can't prove I know a little "something".

[sgtmac_46]

I wouldn't put it on there, as most administrators who do hiring wouldn't know what they hell you were talking about. It's good to do, but not good to talk about to those who don't know what you're talking about.

[MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE]

I wouldn't put it on there, as most administrators who do hiring wouldn't know what they hell you were talking about. It's good to do, but not good to talk about to those who don't know what you're talking about.

This reminded me of a guy at my last job that let it be known he was MA "capable". Y'know the type that wears "Tapout" gear and talks a little too loud about MMA on TV fights? Yeah, that guy. Now much to his chagrin, he's now the first guy they call whenever a patient decides to act out.

I'd rather be left alone, lie in the cut and handle my business when I need to, than be the guy they go running to whenever someone has a mental meltdown.

[sgtmac_46]

This reminded me of a guy at my last job that let it be known he was MA "capable". Y'know the type that wears "Tapout" gear and talks a little too loud about MMA on TV fights? Yeah, that guy. Now much to his chagrin, he's now the first guy they call whenever a patient decides to act out.

I'd rather be left alone, lie in the cut and handle my business when I need to, than be the guy they go running to whenever someone has a mental meltdown.

True enough.

[Hudson69]

In my Guard unit a friend of mine got picked to go to Army Combatives Instructor School because he runs a dojo in Colorado Springs. At my last agency several of the DT Instructors, myself included, had been picked to be instructors just for that reason; because we have a MA/MMA background; might not be the same though because they were looking for MA type people to make instructors... So when the posting came out that was on the job post.

Other than that I have never promoted myself or heard of anyone else doing that unless they were actively looking for those skill sets; even then I think everybody who applied and got it found out they wanted. We knew we were going to be sent to a DT Instructor school specifically. No one wanted to volunteer for anything they didn't have a good idea of what they getting into first. Military or Cops do not really volunteer for anything unless they get the skinny first.

[sfs982000]

I have worked both Govt. and Civilian security and I've never openly admitted to my martial arts background, but I've also never denied it either if asked. For me I don't think that it would've made much difference in the hiring process where I worked.

[bluewaveschool]

I never have put it down before, BUT... now that I am the head instructor of the TKD class at the local YMCA, I may in the future.

[Brian R. VanCise]

For myself it has always been a positive. It has in the past helped me out in getting a job. When I went through the academy it also became known when the DT & PPCT training started and helped quite a bit as well! Instead of being threatened the DT instructor's were appreciative of anyone with boxing, martial arts and or wrestling backgrounds. I think if you are secure in yourself and not overly putting it out there to much that it can only help! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Daniel Sullivan]

I list it on my resume because I am an instructor part time for a local school. I do not work in security, but it has been a means of demonstrating that I can communicate material to others effectively.

Comments have always been positive. Most often, it has been viewed in the same way that employers view an applicant coaching little league or having some other community involvement.

Daniel

[BloodMoney]

Ive found that martial arts (and also just general fitness interests) often look good on an application personally. It shows discipline and respect (generally) in much the same was as say military service might. Who doesnt want a well disciplined honorable person working for them? of course this isnt always the case with individuals or individual jobs but yeah, generally ive found it a positive. I just put down martial arts under interests though I dont list off all the arts or rankings etc.

My instructor went to work in a big prison overseas and told us how they came to do unarmed training, and guys tried telling him how to fight (which is somewhat amusing as he was in our local paper for fighting off like 6 guys and saving some lady etc, and is clearly a big well built guy who knows something). He just said nothing until sparring came round and he basically swept the floor with everyone. The immediately put him on the special cell extraction/swat team of the prison ;) Soon he was training everyone else...




'I wouldn't want to meet you in a dark alley' he said to me.

I replied 'Actually you WOULD want to meet me in a dark alley, cause I have a good nature and cause of my training, you'd have a better chance getting out of there un-harmed'



Exactly what I say. Because I am trained I know not to stomp on peoples heads on the ground, because its dangerous you could kill them, and I know how to keep my cool and control someone while minimizing the damage to them. Also im not the kinda of person to randomly start ****, so yeah I reckon us martial artists are probably some of the best people to run into in a dark alley!

[Josh Oakley]

If I didn't list it, it would show up as a 2 year gap in employment. I'd rather have the stigma of being a martial artist. That being said, it actually HELPED me get the job.