Joint Pain?

[jfarnsworth]

Anyone else here have any problems with their knees no holding up as well anymore? I've found here lately that my right knee bothers the heck out of me quite often. I take the glucosamine/chondroitin combo. and it helps a lot. I also devote two days out of the week just to strengthen the leg muscles. Under the advice of a trainer on specific exercises that will help ease my knee pain. After doing umteen thousand kicks in my life I figured this to most likely be the problem to my knee but I'm curious about the rest of you all.:asian:

[Matt Stone]

You'll miss your knees when they're gone...

I have degenerative joint disease and arthritis, and I admit that it makes deep stances and repetitive kicks less than comfy most times. But, I simply adapt what I do somewhat without compromising the essential elements of what makes the techniques/stances strong and powerful.

Good luck!

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[Klondike93]

Well I've had both knees "scoped" now, but the left one is the only one I think that's been damaged from kicking too much. After I had the right one done it didn't want to bend very far, then I got kicked in the back of it helping a brown belt and it's been fine ever since. I can squat all the way to the floor now for the first time in 15 years so it's all good now.


:asian:

[cali_tkdbruin]

Yup, I'm in the bad knee club :(
Until a couple of years ago I used to play a lot of basketball. I hurt my left knee a few years back, and instead of going under the knife I thought I'd take the advice to rehab it without getting cut. The result was that it hasn't really been the same since that injury. Even though I kept playing ball I was eventually forced to quit because of this.

And, just last week during sparring training I got BLASTED on the same knee by my opponent's side kick... :eek:
All that was heard was the echo of my knee cap getting hammered as if I were hit with a crowbar. I just wanted to run outside the dojang, dragging my limp leg, and let out a big ass scream! :wah:
But, I thought to myself I'm a BB, I have to tough it out. There's no tapping out allowed. :mad:
So, I gathered myself and I told the Sabumnim I was ready to continue scrapping. Luckily for me my partner also hurt his foot when he pounded my knee so he couldn't continue. :shrug:

Anyway, I don't have a broken kneecap but I do think I will have to get it scoped after all.

[Klondike93]

I do think I will have to get it scoped after all.

You will feel so much better when you do, then you'll ask yourself why you waited so long.

When I had my left knee done back in 93, that's what got me back into some serious training again. Before getting done I hadn't been training very hard because it just flat hurt too much afterwards. Then after getting the right done in 2001 all is good now with both, I can even squat all the way to floor again (which I hadn't been able to in like, forever!)


:asian:

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
And, just last week during sparring training I got BLASTED on the same knee by my opponent's side kick... :eek:
All that was heard was the echo of my knee cap getting hammered as if I were hit with a crowbar. I just wanted to run outside the dojang, dragging my limp leg, and let out a big ass scream! :wah:
But, I thought to myself I'm a BB, I have to tough it out. There's no tapping out allowed. :mad:
So, I gathered myself and I told the Sabumnim I was ready to continue scrapping. Luckily for me my partner also hurt his foot when he pounded my knee so he couldn't continue. :shrug:

Anyway, I don't have a broken kneecap but I do think I will have to get it scoped after all.


Good lord man, that makes me cringe just to even think about it.

[Cliarlaoch]

Yeah, I've been there... I'm only 20, for crying out loud, and I've had the muscles on the outer side of my right knee tear once, and had cartilage snap in the knee joint itself once as well (different occasions). Not fun. I just wear a knee brace on the right knee now (I've been advised not doing so is not wise, so I've kept it on during training for years). I also use a lot of leg strenghtening exercises as well. If you folks want, maybe we can compile some of the stuff from PT or from other experience that can be used to help deal with knee injuries? It might be a constructive way to help Jfarnsworth and others like him (I.E. ME!!!!) out.

Not to mention, since I've been told if I ain't careful I'll be in a wheelchair by the time I'm 50 on several occasions, I'd like to play it somewhat safe. :P

[Quick Sand]

I have knee problems but they're not from injury. They're just inherited. They started in when I was only 10 years old. It's not as bad these days but I still take Advil sometimes. I just started taking Glucosamine about a week ago so I'll see in a few weeks if that helps at all. I'm only 21 at this point.

I have a quesiton though. When I was first diagnosed by my doctor, he told me not to do any weight bearing activity that had my knees bend past 90 degrees. I figured things like squats were out. That was about . . . . 7 or 8 years ago.

I took a health course last term though, and our prof said that squats are actually really good for you knees and going all the way to floor is actually better for you knees then stopping at a 90 degree bend. She's had knee problems and was a serious olympic style weight-lifter for many years.

What have you guys found? Do squats help or hurt your knees? How far down do you go?

[Klondike93]

Before I had my knees scoped I couldn't do any squats at all, just hurt too much.

Now I don't have much problems at all. I do them all the way down, very slowly. They're called '40' count squats cause you start counting to 20 as you squat and at 20 your at the bottom. Then you start back up ending at 20 and your standing up. Of all the leg work I've done these have helped me the most.


:asian:

Klondike

[XxTKDPenguinxX]

This might sound a little...wippy... but I wear martial art shoes when doing exercises that don't require a lot of pivoting on my feet (no form work, kicking drils, etc.) I found that, when barefoot, it help absorb the shock to my knees when jumping and moving about the dojang.
I used to just be barefooted when I trained, but as the years went on, I discovered that my knees and feet would hurt so bad in the mornings, that I could hardly walk. It got to the point I dreaded training (sometimes still do).

[Shodan]

Another member of the bad knee club here. Back in 1995, I blew out my right knee during the middle of my 2nd brown test. I just stepped in to block a punch and POP...there it went. It had been hurting during the training for the test, so I had a neoprene brace on it during the test. No huge injury directly to the knee that I could think of......just a lot of wear and tear from Kenpo over the years- kicking, stretching, etc.

Nowadays, the aches and pains come and go. Sometimes, the knee is fine and I can move on it like I never had to have rehab. surgery.....then there are other days where it feels very fragile or gets achy. Recently, I have apparently strained something in the back of it cuz I am having a heck of a time straightening it. Last night for class, I wore my knee brace for the first time in a long time- it is a de-rotational knee brace that won't allow me to straighten my leg past 15 degrees when I kick and won't let the same type of injury happen to it again. For some reason, today my knee is worse!! Very stiff and sore.....bizarre. The weather (cold especially) seems to bug it nowadays too and sometimes the good leg starts to act up......my suspician is that it is from babying the bad leg and making the good leg work too much.

I am really looking forward to trying the glucosomine stuff but won't be able to take it for awhile as I am currently pregnant. This is another issue with the knees right now- I have to be very careful stretching and working on the knee......there is a hormone released during pregnancy that allows your ligaments to become more stretchy than normal. So.......I'll have to take it easy for awhile....but later, when I can try the glucosomine, maybe the achiness will get better- I've heard it really works well for some people.

Hope all your knees feel better soon.......no fun having them act up when we need them to be stable in the sport we do.

:asian: :karate:

[Tae Kwon Doughboy]

That's what I'm dealing with right now. Got the results from the MRI today. The doctor says there is nothing structurally wrong with my knee! It is feeling better but it still isn't 100%. He doesn't recommend TKD to anyone much less adults so he wants me to do the right thing and quit, or at least for a month.

This week I found that there is a place that teaches Tai Chi and watched one of the classes. I also recognised how much I miss the "feeling" I have when I was practicing Tia Chi.

I guess I have a decision to make this weekend. I love both TKD and Tai Chi but can't afford to take both.

As a kid my knees would give out but I grew out of it. In my 20s I had trouble with the cartilige in both knees floating which was painful and scary. A doctor told me to drink warm gelatine and wear ankle weights for a month. Haven't had that problem since.

I think I will do that again to see if it helps with my current problem.

[karatekid1975]

Another member of the bad knee club here. I pulled my hammy really bad about two years ago. Then I hyper extended the knee on the same leg. I was told that my leg muscles are weak, which is causing too much stress on my knee. Now my left one aches, because I favor the right one.

I can kick with the right one, I just can't land on it (for jumping kicks). It hurts like a *****!

I think sharing leg stregnthening exercises is a good idea. Anyone want to share?

[TigerWoman]

I've taken glucosamine sulfate and MSM for 6 six years and it certainly makes a difference whether I can participate in TKD. Taking ibuprofen to prevent inflammation which comes from too much jumping causing synovial fluid buildup and more cartilage/calcium/bone pieces floating around causing more pain. A wicked circle which with ibuprofen a half hour before exercise, a brace to keep my knee aligned and supported better, and icing it with a dixie cup of frozen ice-just peel back the edge and ice around the knee slowly until numb then move on, afterward.

One of my cartilage tears healed from glucosamine, all that puffiness on one side of my knee is gone and no more edge of pain! But the MRI that I had about 9 months ago, said I had another on the other side, but is really little. I don't feel that one. But my knee ligaments are unstable especially if I do some stretching exercises like squats or the lotus position stretch if pressed too far. I can't do very many side to side movements either. I always had knees that would go out of joint too easily, caused by sitting like a M when I was a kid. But I do knee exercises too to strengthen that VM muscle, hamstring pulls with a stretchy band for the back of my knee. Also I found that just walking helps alot. My knee became much more stable, I think, because of that. But there is the other thing that I am nearly 55 and would like to be able to walk the rest of my life so better quit this jumping thing. TW

[hardheadjarhead]

Anyone else here have any problems with their knees no holding up as well anymore?

I'm two months out of an ACL reconstruction. Its going well, but once its healed I'll have to see where I am. The doctor shaved some cartilage out of there, and found a bit of arthritis (not as bad as he first thought).

I'm 47...the stuff wears out. I was lucky it took as long as it did, I guess. One of my black belts is 22 and he's got ruined knees. He has such promise, too.

Got achilles tendonitis/tendinosis, too. Oh joy...

Stick with the glucosamine. Another good anti-inflammatory is fishoil. The stuff works. It suppresses prostaglandins that cause inflammation.


Regards,

Steve

[shaolinchi]

I'm not sure if anyone has perscribed this yet. But you could try Tai Chi. I had chronic knee problems, and honestly the Tai Chi has helped me greatly over the past few years. I would honestly perscribe this treatment to anyone that could take it.

[Faye]

well, speaking of knee problem, I do have some complaints. First, I dont' feel knee pain at all when I was training, but when I'm done and just standing there, I can feel some pain around my knees, not bad at all, but some aching is there, is this a bad sign? SHould I start taking the glucosamine combo? I'm in my early thirties.

Also, I used to play volleyball as a kid, and I have no clue whether I have seriously hurt my knees before, but lately, i felt like my right knee "pops" quite easily. I know it's not dislocated because one, it wasnt very painful, but it pops to a point that I will fall right away, but I can get back up immediately and continue wtih whatever I was doing (sparring was one incident where it "popped". What I mean by pop is that, i felt like my right knee popped out of place and back in within a split second...

Anyone with similiar experience? Thanks!

[The Kai]

I take flax seed oil for the same effect as fish oil. As far as keeping your knees healthy my #1 problem is running. For years ran to get in shape to tourny's problem I am just big enough so the pounding really messes with me. Running however is probably the best stamina builder out there thou..........

[bignick]

Being a bigger guy..as the name implies...i do suffer some knee problems...thankfully it's not usually enough to bother me or make me stop training...but i try to take care of them...cause i plan on using them for a while...

[Disco]

A couple of suggestions if I may...... 1) Taking glucosamine has proven to be helpful, so taking it is a plus. 2) Wrap or knee brace the knees to assist in strength and limit "Air KIcks". 3) Limit the amount of actual kicking done to the heavy bag or focus mitts. Granted, you have to practice to become good at anything, but moderation is the key to longevity in the arts. Start with this mindset early in training and you can be around for a long time. :asian:

[TigerWoman]

well, speaking of knee problem, I do have some complaints. First, I dont' feel knee pain at all when I was training, but when I'm done and just standing there, I can feel some pain around my knees, not bad at all, but some aching is there, is this a bad sign? SHould I start taking the glucosamine combo? I'm in my early thirties.

Also, I used to play volleyball as a kid, and I have no clue whether I have seriously hurt my knees before, but lately, i felt like my right knee "pops" quite easily. I know it's not dislocated because one, it wasnt very painful, but it pops to a point that I will fall right away, but I can get back up immediately and continue wtih whatever I was doing (sparring was one incident where it "popped". What I mean by pop is that, i felt like my right knee popped out of place and back in within a split second...
!

My knees used to dislocate alot as a teen, but I kept popping them back in with no damage. A few years ago, I did it doing tornado round kick after being near exhausted and landed wrong. I put it back in but injured the meniscus/cartilage, it was torn. I took glucosamine SULFATE which is better than glucosamine CHONDROITIN which is more common. Not all supplements are the same. That one healed but have a new one now. Start now and keep your joints/cartilage healthy. It takes 3 months for it to really get into your system. I ran for twenty years and lost alot of cartilage so I'm bone on bone practically on both knees.

Also, MSM, is also a good supplement. It alleviates any inflammation from use which starts the pain and swelling.

Also ICE your knees afterwards or cold pack them, ice til numb then move around the knee. This is great and your knees will thank you. They won't swell up and cause pain.

Its better to take Advil or ibuprofen 1/2 hr. before a workout so no swelling or pain starts. Two hours later after workout when you are already in pain is really too late, it keeps the pain down but the damage is done.

I also wear braces to keep my patellas in place when jumping since I am prone to them going out of joint. (I use a velcro complicated one for my really bad knee-got it from a orthopedist)

There are other threads as well for strengthening your hamstring so the quad muscles do not take over - something like the hamstrings should be 80-90% of the strength of the quads. Also theVM quad muscle on inner side of the thigh needs to be strengthened so your knee ligaments keep your joints in place too. VM Exercise: sit on floor legs extended in a V, turn your toe out and lift slowly, one leg at a time, 20 reps. and hold for ten seconds.

That's most of what I've learned. Too late, might I add. Start now.:D
TW

[Faye]

Tigerwoman-

question for you, when you say you dislocate and pop them back in..i'm a bit confused, because I never actually have to pop it back in. It almost always happen when I land after a kick. I even had that problem when I was doing the warm up axe kicks. It sort of to "pop", and then i never have to do anything, it just gets back in place, and usually it's not painful afterwards.
Last saturday, after the second pop in a week, i can feel some soreness on my right knee a few days after, I'm just worried----is that the same as dislocating my knee?

I will start taking glucosamine sulfate.

[Raewyn]

What is scoping???? I have a problem with my left knee. It's what they call a patella femular (I think thats the correct spelling) an irritation between the knee cap and the bone. I got told it was unoperable. It is just an annoying ache. Apparentley there is nothing that can be done except rest it for ages and ages and hope that is gets better.

[TigerWoman]

Tigerwoman-

question for you, when you say you dislocate and pop them back in..i'm a bit confused, because I never actually have to pop it back in. It almost always happen when I land after a kick. I even had that problem when I was doing the warm up axe kicks. It sort of to "pop", and then i never have to do anything, it just gets back in place, and usually it's not painful afterwards.
Last saturday, after the second pop in a week, i can feel some soreness on my right knee a few days after, I'm just worried----is that the same as dislocating my knee?

I will start taking glucosamine sulfate.

Faye, when I dislocated my knee it was all the way out of the socket and couldn't have moved back unless done manually. Its really painful, excruciating in fact. I'm not a doc, so keep that in mind, but it sounds to me like your knee isn't staying where it should be so you hear a sound when it gets back in place. You probably have more cushion-cartilage too, so it slides easily. If I were you, I would wear a brace. If it slides out all the way doing a twisting jump, you risk damage and definitely more pain. Are you in TKD? I was trying to remember. If so that is all the more reason to use a brace-better safe than sorry! I've gotten quite used to mine. TW

[Faye]

Tigerwoman,

I think i get it now!! Mine slipped out of place as well, but not all the way, and it went quickly back into place. But I sure should wear some braces. I bought some of those elastic bands, I wonder if those provide enough support. Yes, I'm in taekwondo, I'm the one who asked all those spinning hook quick questions!!
Thanks for all your support/advises!

[TigerWoman]

Tigerwoman,

I think i get it now!! Mine slipped out of place as well, but not all the way, and it went quickly back into place. But I sure should wear some braces. I bought some of those elastic bands, I wonder if those provide enough support. Yes, I'm in taekwondo, I'm the one who asked all those spinning hook quick questions!!
Thanks for all your support/advises!

I just had a patellar, under the knee band for a while. That seemed okay enough to keep my knee in joint. Some of the elastic ones that don't have an additional hole in the back can't really be irritating. I liked the wrap around neoprene ones the best. But there is a neoprene, inexpensive, that has the hole in front and not in the back. It is a slip on. Also a neoprene velcrom inexpensive, that has both holes and wraps, cooler. Now I wear the under the knee thing on my right, my good knee, and the wrap around that has an additional insert that velcros in so my patellar doesn't slip. It keeps my side ligaments more supported. Then my hamstring in the back of the knee gave me trouble. So its a constant exercise thing for the hamstring.
My heavy duty one is a Hely & Weber (no hard pieces inside) from a orthopedist.. The other knee strap is a Kneed-It, from a catalog. The Cho-Pat strap was okay but not as good. (I think I have gotten them ALL) TW

[Tkang_TKD]

LOL! One more member of the bad knee club. My bad knees come mostly from athletics at the junior high/high school level, and continued athletics through out my life.

For the most part, I get a lot of pains in my right knee, and occassionally in my hips. Other than that, for the most part I tend to be injury free.

Ironically enough, I've only had one minor TKD related injury, and that was a strained hamstring.

I've hurt myself much more often in "non-contact" sports, such as softball, basketball, etc...

Anyway, I use neopreen knee braces on both knees and one of those slim wraps that is designed to stabilize the knee cap. They took some getting used to, but for the most part I have full range of motion, and thanks to the stabilization, I tend to be relatively pain free during training. Pain on off days is another subject though...LOL

[Faye]

Tigerwoman-

I just checked it out with my doctor today, he said i have patella lateral subluxation (partial dislocation). Will have to wear braces, he said no TKD for a week until he evaluate my MRI. (he's worried about ACL tear, which i doubted, but better that than sorry.) I'm suppose to test for my green belt next week too. :(
Just thought to give you an update.

[Shodan]

Faye-

Ouch!! I hope you are still able to test. Do you have a knee brace you can use if you do decide to test? I hope your MRI comes back okay- I blew out my knee on my second brown test, so you might want to delay your test if the doctor thinks you should. Get that knee strong before you push it too far.

Best of luck-
:asian: :karate:

[Faye]

Shodan,

Thank you! I am using a knee brace right now, to make sure i don't really pop it out. But I am not in pain at all. My doctor just want to make sure it's okay. I think i'll be fine, he said no tkd until MRI's back, i just got it done an hour ago and result will be in soon! will keep you all posted!

[Gary Crawford]

At 41, I am absolutely a member of the club.Mostly from stupidity though.When I was younger(and didn't quit until way after I should have),I was a die hard skateboarder,mostlty vert.I was skating a large half-pipe ramp on day after I hadn't skated for a couple weeks.I was getting carried away with myself way too early in my warm ups and attempted a high allyoop air before I got my balance dialed in.I didn't feel right and I bailed,not knee sliding down the ramp,I landed flat footed on the flat bottom.I saw my right knee seperate about five inches!I suffered with it instead of getting surgery.It was bearable until five years ago when I was kicked really hard in a sparring.I had a hard time with it for about eight months until one day,I turned and felt a big pop!All of a sudden,my knee felt great.I guess it was slightly dislocated till then.I don't feel totally confident with it when I kick with my left these days unles I wear a really tight support.

[Faye]

Gary- the thing is that I think the pressure on the leg is stronger when I'm kicking with my left leg because i'm planting my right knee on the floor, especially the jump kicks. I do wear a tight support right now, and I'll just have to wait and see what the doctor say. I don't suppose there are alot I can do besides the physical therapy to strengthen my quads.

[Gary Crawford]

I do allot of self-therapy.Leg lifts on the weight bench,but I get the most benifit from balancing with my left leg up and sqatting slowly with my right.

[Faye]

Hi all-

Just want to let you all know, my MRI result came back and it revealed ACL complete torn! I was surprised as hell because I did not feel any pain at all, no swelling no pain, i have full range of motion. The only reason i went to the doctor was becauase of my slight knee cap slipping in and out twice.
i wonder if this tear happened years ago because I really feel NO pain, nothing.
So, i either have to get surgery or do physical therapy and wear a knee brace. I will go with the latter just to see how it goes..
Really strange, no symptoms at all.

[TigerWoman]

Wow, you must have torn that awhlle ago. I have a friend who tore hers falling off a horse but she is in TKD as well, She was a orange belt then. She had a lot of pain, was out for awhile, and came back very slowly. She had trouble with spins at first (with no ACL, no surgery done), but slowly she adjusted. She's in her 30's. She is a red belt now but has had it fairly easy so far for requirements. I guess you have to make that decision to repair it and go through the rehabilitation period or do without. I wonder if any others on this board have torn ACLs and haven't had them repaired.
??? TW

[Faye]

I talked to my instructor today, and he actually had his ACL torn as well (from football), didn't repair it for 7 years and continued with martial arts. And then he eventually did get it repair. I, too, am curious if anyone has it torn and never fix it. I think i'm okay, with physical therapy, I should get stronger and be fine....
hopefully.

[donald]

I had a mcl injury about 8-10 years ago. which they said was only a streching, or bruising. after ward it would hurt me here, and there, and i even had a little more checking of it about 3 years ago. well this past may i stepped into a hole at work, and twisted it. i went to the urgent care that afternoon, and was told it was a sprain, but if it still bothered me in a week or so to have it checked further. it did, and i did. after some more care, and then finally an mri. i was told i had a tear of the lateral minscus, and they reccomended surgery. its been 9 months since the sugery, and it still is weak, and painful. especially going up/down elevations. thank The Lord Jesus that recently it has felt better while walking etc., but still feels wobbly at times, and painful. after(second opinion) surgery was told by surgeon,"saw some evidence of arthritis, but no need to be concerned about that for 10-20 more years"!!! my question is. has anyone else had an experience like this?
thanks,
By His Grace, 1st John 1:9

[jfarnsworth]

Good to hear that it is doing somewhat better. :asian:

[TigerWoman]

I've had two meniscal tears. I tore one doing a tornado round kick, dislocating and I scraped my knee back in instead of going to the ER. So it tore and then a couple of years ago I had an MRI for another problem and I tore the other side but my old one healed. Whenever I tore those, my hamstrings by the knee were sore I noticed. I also had trouble walking up and down stairs as it was unstable and buckled. Every once in a while it still does in class particularly when my hamstrings are sore.

I take Glucosamine Sulfate and if you do a search there is quite a bit written about it on MT. Anyway I do alot of knee exercises to keep the muscles, quads particularly the inner ones, and hamstrings strong plus wear a non-metal brace. Squats are great-not over 90° though. Its been working pretty good but still there is wear and tear from the discipline I'm in. I jumped on Friday, forgot myself, and paid for it this weekend. I really have to stop jumping altogether. Good luck on yours! TW