*WARNING - LINKS TO PAIN AND INJURY* how is this possible?

[Tuvok.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X4kg-wFTxQ...feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X4kg-wFTxQ&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKEENCpRdIY...feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKEENCpRdIY&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH8t-okjT38

on the Same Place?

[Hand Sword]

:erg:

Eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guardian]

I just had to look LOL LOL, those were unreal, dang, talk about pain.

[terryl965]

way to much pain

[kaizasosei]

yikes! makes me cringe.
of course it's possible-you saw it. theres another clip where someone breaks the other guys back.
checkit out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEnVbnucYtc&feature=related

aside from being shocked by the injury, it's amazing how flexible the body is without bones.

[Hand Sword]

Well, that's one way to escape from that hold.

[Tuvok.]

Theese Videos with broken Back or Broken Legs, should be fakes?

[Blindside]

Why do you think they are fakes?

[shesulsa]

A double ankle fracture (known as a tib-fib) is *very* common. While these can be difficult to watch, it's important to note what part of the shin these guys are kicking with, the improper foot placement for that skipping-in kick as well as his inproportionate lower leg mass.

The guy with the broken back shoulda tapped. (no nastiness intended)

[tshadowchaser]

ouch

painful to even watch

I must agree with Shesula that it is important to notice how the injury occured not just what was the results

[Cruentus]

Injury can occur when you do any kind of contact sport.

I will say that fragile bones can occur from steroid use as well. I am not saying that all these instances were because of that, but that is just something to keep in mind.

[KempoGuy06]

im really kind of speechless

B

[IcemanSK]

Yeow!

[JadecloudAlchemist]

From watching the cage matches I noticed the kicks were kicks using the shin area to the Shin area of the opponent. From the impact of the strike against a harder surface(opponent's Shin) caused the break. The bone itself could be weak from different factors Steriods was mentioned Genes Bone mass density. The point to me is if you have not conditioned that area well enough using it to strike a conditioned area could result in that. Also improper technique as seen in the Wrestling clip can also damage it. The same could be said about the damage to the Radial if you block with the forearm with improper technique or conditioning or against someones Bone density being thicker.

[rabbit]

A double ankle fracture (known as a tib-fib) is *very* common. While these can be difficult to watch, it's important to note what part of the shin these guys are kicking with, the improper foot placement for that skipping-in kick as well as his inproportionate lower leg mass.

The guy with the broken back shoulda tapped. (no nastiness intended)

What do you mean inproportionate lower leg mass? Too much muscle???

[Tuvok.]

well everybody broke the Leg on the same place

[Cruentus]

well everybody broke the Leg on the same place

Warning: long post ahead! :)

That particular area is not really meant to be slammed into a hard object (shin, elbow, knee would be a hard object), and therefore it is suseptable breaking.

There was a show, either on Natl' Geographic or one of the sports stations that was covering athletes, and seemingly "inhuman" feats, and scientifically analyzing how these athletes are able to perform such feats.

They did a great segment on martial artists who do competitive breaking where they break bricks, cinderblock slabs, ice, wood, and so forth with various different parts of their body. Anyhow, these giant dudes were slamming into all different types of hard objects, and it was pretty cool. What was cooler, though, was when they hooked them up to sensors attached to load cells to get a figure of how much force per square inch they were generating. They did this specifically with a forearm break, where the expert breaks through a series of cinder blocks with the forearm.

Anyway, They estimates how much force he generated on the forearm, and I forgot the exact figure. But the explanation was that a "normal" untrained person's forearms would break under that kind of force. However, due to training, the expert breakers bodies were able to adapt with training, build more calcium and stronger bones and tissue in those areas to make them more resilient to damaging themselves. This, added with appropriate technique allows them to break objects with parts of their body where ordinary people would break themselves.

I assume that it is the same with shin or instep roundhouse kicks. If you are training and conditioning, you are less likely to break that bone because your body will adjust. Technique plays a role as well. This is why "shin conditioning" in Thai boxing was an important part of training. Now-a-days in MMA, not much attention is payed to this type of conditioning and technical awareness, so it leaves athletes more suseptable to this type of injury. If you add genetics or medication or steroids that might weaken bones, some athletes will be more suseptible then others.

There are 2 lessons we can take away from this. 1 is that if I am teaching self-defense to people who aren't martial artists, and who are not compulsive enough to spend time doing body conditioning every day, then I am not including Thai kicks and such into the program. There are other techniques that are effective that will leave them less open to injury; and the fact is if you crack or break something by delivering a strike in self-defense, you could be worse off then when you started.

The second lesson is that if you are an athlete training for fights, put the time into adding body conditioning into your program. You don't have to be esoteric about it. Just be sure your can hit hard-density heavy bags with your techniques before you get into the ring.

C.

[shesulsa]

What do you mean inproportionate lower leg mass? Too much muscle???
Look at how freakin' huge the guy is ... and then look at his tiny little ankles. I would say 2/3 of that guy's lower leg is WAY under proportioned for his overall size. If his bone structure is such that this is his natural build, he had absolutely NO business making that move - there's no way in Honolulu that lower leg would hold up under that kind of torture.

I'd like to see the guy count to three (whinny ... whinny ... whinny). :P

[tellner]

Jesus Christ! (pbuh)

Especially the broken, argh, good Lord, ouch, ohnoohnoohno back.

Thai, Iron Palm and Cimande training build up the bones gradually through increasingly hard contact over a long time. It's not so much the thickness of the forearms or lower legs. It's the density of the bones which you can increase. But if your technique is stronger than your tool, and you hit something hard something just has to give.

The broken back is a damned good argument against machismo. If he's got you, he's got you. Tap out and move on.

[SageGhost83]

Warning: long post ahead! :)

That particular area is not really meant to be slammed into a hard object (shin, elbow, knee would be a hard object), and therefore it is suseptable breaking.

Looking at how frail the human body is to begin with, would it be out of bounds to say that the human body is not a weapon and was never meant to be used as such? Perhaps that is why we humans are tool-users or are meant to be tool-users first and foremost? I am leaning more towards tools these days - the ole' body hasn't been so nice to me after all of these years of full-contact training :lol2:.

[SageGhost83]

But if your technique is stronger than your tool, and you hit something hard something just has to give.

Yeah.....something like my wrist and forearm during my first ever clean breaking of the boards. To this very day, hammerfist is not a part of my personal skill set :lol:.

[Cruentus]

Looking at how frail the human body is to begin with, would it be out of bounds to say that the human body is not a weapon and was never meant to be used as such? Perhaps that is why we humans are tool-users or are meant to be tool-users first and foremost? I am leaning more towards tools these days - the ole' body hasn't been so nice to me after all of these years of full-contact training :lol2:.

Well, I think that might be a good observation, but I think that it is a little deeper then that. The body is adaptable and will adapt to extreme amounts of stress. But, given that we are tool users, as a species we have evolved to not be as resilient as we perhaps were once before. Further, most of us don't push our bodies to that thin line between pain and injury to force the body to adapt to stress.

That said, I am a big advocate of tools. Our brains and adaptability is what has allowed us to survive, not our brawn.

[tellner]

Yeah.....something like my wrist and forearm during my first ever clean breaking of the boards. To this very day, hammerfist is not a part of my personal skill set .

If you look at old boxing manuals and pictures you'll see a lot more body punching, backfists and hammer fists and a lot less jabbing and crossing to the head. An awful lot of matches ended when someone's hands were too broken to go on.

[Tuvok.]

well thats nice but for me its not clear
nobody I have seen in my life and never, that one that is a Profi have a Broken leg, only because a litle Bit Leg Kicking

[shesulsa]

well thats nice but for me its not clear
nobody I have seen in my life and never, that one that is a Profi have a Broken leg, only because a litle Bit Leg Kicking
Well, we've talked about it much here, trying to explain. Most people don't understand that kicking a person is a lot harder than kicking a bag.

Have a nice day.

[jks9199]

well thats nice but for me its not clear
nobody I have seen in my life and never, that one that is a Profi have a Broken leg, only because a litle Bit Leg Kicking
Let me try explaining what happens when someone breaks their shin kicking someone...

It's not really hard to understand. The shin bones (there are really two of them) are relatively small bones; think of them as kind of like broomsticks. Now, if you hit a broomstick flat on a wall, it will rarely break, right? But... if you whack that broomstick against a lamp post about 1/2 or 2/3 down the broom stick... it's gonna snap, right? Someone kicks, and they hit at the wrong angle or with the wrong part of their leg, and their FOOT will continue on in the arc of the kick, even though the upper portion of their shin stopped on knee block or leg. Something's gotta give, just like that broomstick against the lamp post. (Why doesn't the blocking leg break? Frequently there's some flex in it -- and it's more stationary, not accellerating.)

Why'd the big pro wrestler's leg break when he jumped down? 'Cause the bones couldn't take the sudden application of his weight on them that way. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some hairline fractures (like shinsplints can be) that made that the weakest point in his leg, too.

[pad256]

great vids of some really painfull stuff

Paul

[woot]

I have to admit that is some of the grossest stuff I've seen.

[SageGhost83]

If you look at old boxing manuals and pictures you'll see a lot more body punching, backfists and hammer fists and a lot less jabbing and crossing to the head. An awful lot of matches ended when someone's hands were too broken to go on.

Hehehe, now that's hardcore. People were swinging some serious heat back then to break both hands. I did not know that about boxing, thanks for the information :asian:. I am always learning new and interesting things on this site!

[jks9199]

Hehehe, now that's hardcore. People were swinging some serious heat back then to break both hands. I did not know that about boxing, thanks for the information :asian:. I am always learning new and interesting things on this site!
They were also fighting with no gloves... Head shots, hitting elbows, and so on will tend to break hands up, even if they are reasonably conditioned. You can eventually condition your hand to strike solid targets -- but people move, and you'll end up catching something wrong.

It's kind of instructive, to me, to notice the stances shown and used by the classic, bare-knuckle boxers, compared to modern boxers.