Art most commonly trained in for high-risk careers...

[Blaze]

Hey gang

I'm a security officer in a fairly high-risk environment, and feel the need
to upgrade my H2H training beyond the basic training I got with the job.

What martial arts are most commonly trained in among other high-risk,
need-to-survive careers like police, military, security, bodyguards,
etc? And why?

Thanks for the help!

[AceHBK]

Hey gang

I'm a security officer in a fairly high-risk environment, and feel the need
to upgrade my H2H training beyond the basic training I got with the job.

What martial arts are most commonly trained in among other high-risk,
need-to-survive careers like police, military, security, bodyguards,
etc? And why?

Thanks for the help!

Oh that's easy....every martial art is. For example...ask this question to 20 different people from 20 different countries and they will more than likely say the art that is practiced in that country.

Find something that complements your size and your abilities. That is the one thing about Martial Arts...you need to know yourself before you pick a art, or you could juist go around and try and see what works but if you honestly sit down with yourself and say.."hey im 6'0 200lbs and I don't like to really kick and I prefer to use my hands b/c of upper body strentgh and all" then that will narrow your choices down some.

Actually I hate to say this but go watch the Human Weapon they show different countries and what martial art different army's and police officers
use. That wya u could say..hey that interests me and nah that doesnt and what not. Watch then go visit some schools and ask questions.

Trust me there is no 1 MA better than the other and you will see when 50 different people try and tell you why theirs is better than someone else's. Not the art it is the person and the amount of time and dedication they put into it that makes it effective.

[Bigshadow]

You are probably going to see all sorts of arts.

I do know that many people from prison guards, police officers, FBI agents, active duty military (including special forces), executive protection services, and other high risk careers, train in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. The reason? My opinion is because Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is a battlefield tested weapons based martial art and it lends itself very well to empty hand combat.

With that said, I am sure there are just as many folks in other arts that work in the same fields. So, good luck in your search.

[Blaze]

Good answers so far guys.


I do know that many people from prison guards, police officers, FBI agents, active duty military (including special forces), executive protection services, and other high risk careers, train in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. The reason? My opinion is because Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is a battlefield tested weapons based martial art and it lends itself very well to empty hand combat.

This is exactly what I meant. I know there's all kinds of different arts trained
in depending on the country of origin, but I meant what ELSE do they train in
besides their required basic training to increase their chances of survival and
become better in their field of work.

[arnisador]

Usually, they train in whatever is availble. They get whatever official training they get as part of their job and the rest depends on what is town, or taught by a buddy. You'll get answers ranging from Aikido to Zulu stick fighting because of that.

So...what's available near you?

[Blaze]

Near me there are all the usual suspects... Karate, TKD, Judo, Aikido,
Jui Jitsu, MMA, Kung Fu of different varietes, Ninjutsu, Kenpo, FMA,
etc. A couple hours drive there is a Systema, which I think looks
promising but would require me to train in my home gym most of the
time with frequent trips to that dojo for hands-on instruction.

Any and all insights are welcome.

[Guardian]

Hey gang

I'm a security officer in a fairly high-risk environment, and feel the need
to upgrade my H2H training beyond the basic training I got with the job.

What martial arts are most commonly trained in among other high-risk,
need-to-survive careers like police, military, security, bodyguards,
etc? And why?

Thanks for the help!

What is the high risk environment that you speak of, the answer will or should dictate the responses. Being a Security Guard at a Major Hospital or protecting property or people, each job will vary in what you should or think about taking.

[Omar B]

You gotta give us more information man. The type of place you work (using a MA like LINE designed to kill would be a bit much for working in say a hospital), so we can have an idea of how far one usually ends up going. Also your build (hight, weight, flexability, strength) would be nice too.

Like this, you work in a mental hospital, you are a medium hight guy of about 190 pounds, not particularly strong with reasonable flexibility I would suggest judo.

[Xue Sheng]

Hey gang

I'm a security officer in a fairly high-risk environment, and feel the need
to upgrade my H2H training beyond the basic training I got with the job.

What martial arts are most commonly trained in among other high-risk,
need-to-survive careers like police, military, security, bodyguards,
etc? And why?

Thanks for the help!

I China, police/military Sanda, but good luck finding a real teacher of that outside of China. They are here but rare.

Others I guess Krav Maga, Systema and things similar. Think restraint as what is needed not stand up knock down fighting so I am not sure if Krav Maga and Systema wold be right either, some of hat could get you sued.

So you have to consider how far you can go legally and there are some things in Police/Military Sanda that would get you in court real fast in the US but not make any difference in China.

I use to work in security and I spent some time working in a hospital that had a mental health and detox unit and I used my Taiji to do a lot of redirecting and take downs and the Qinna for holds, but I also had a bit of a jujitsu background and TKD as well as some other CMA.

Never EVER did I hit anyone that is a QUICK way to get sued.

[towknee]

Offering only a personal opinion.....have done many years traditional karate.
Recently pursued Systema and some independent self-defense. Excellent experience. Will do more.
Am also doing an accelerated sports training program for simple physical fitness improvement. Don't discount these types of programs.

Have a very strong training partner who did Krav Maga. He reports an excellent experience. He and his wife will do more.
A recent post in the "general" topics section mentions CrossFire. Very intersting videos. I took notes of some of their training techniques.

Take a look at various sites related to System, KM, Crossfire, etc..they don't spend a lot of time on "traditional" practices common to karate,etc..

They do more limited but very focused self defense stuff. They do serious physical fitness. I did Systema because someone close locally offered the experience. No complaints. I would definetly do Krav Maga based on my training partner's experience. (He moved to another state. Not offered in my immediate area.)
Take a look at the literature. Do some research. At least take the principals these "systems" espouse to use as a guide for where you think you want to train.
Then tell me what you choose so I/we can have a clue. :-)

Luck.
stan

[towknee]

Sorry. Crossfit. Not Crossfire.
luck.

[Blaze]

Hey guys

I'm a hair over 6' tall and 205 lbs, stronger than most. Not the
most flexible, but not the least either.

I basically patrol a few buildings in the downtown sector of my city,
inside and out. Not the greatest neighborhood either. Can attract all
sorts of trouble. I've heard I'll need to be prepared for all types of things
from disgruntled employees to crackheads trying to mug and/or kill
people, and possibly you.

Not allowed to carry a firearm in this position, so it all comes down to
H2H on this job.

Plus I'm looking into progressing with this career into armed and
possibly private security positions, so something I can build on
to further my skills and confidence is good.

Thanks!

[still learning]

Hello, Have you look into JUDO?

Aloha,

[Blaze]

Anyone else?

[jks9199]

You're looking for a magic answer.

You won't find one.

There are some styles that will likely give you quicker results for self-defense than others (Krav Maga, for example, compared to aikido) but all will, if trained for reality, give you practical defense skills. You'll find cops who train in every style from aikido to Zulu spear fighting, if it's available in their area. A lot depends on your goals; are you looking to save your ass, or to arrest the other guy? Different approaches are needed.

You may want to look at some of the Reality Based Self Defense programs, like Peyton Quinn's Adrenal Stress Training, as well as some direct law enforcement/security defensive tactics schools. Just be careful; there are lots of folks who claim to teach that sort of thing without the experience or skills...

[Xue Sheng]

You're looking for a magic answer.

You won't find one.

There are some styles that will likely give you quicker results for self-defense than others (Krav Maga, for example, compared to aikido) but all will, if trained for reality, give you practical defense skills. You'll find cops who train in every style from aikido to Zulu spear fighting, if it's available in their area. A lot depends on your goals; are you looking to save your ass, or to arrest the other guy? Different approaches are needed.

You may want to look at some of the Reality Based Self Defense programs, like Peyton Quinn's Adrenal Stress Training, as well as some direct law enforcement/security defensive tactics schools. Just be careful; there are lots of folks who claim to teach that sort of thing without the experience or skills...

Agreed

Blaze

I have known police officers that trained Karate, Aikido, TKD, Aikido, Judo, Taijiquan, Xingyiquan, Bagua, Wing Chun, Jujitsu, JKD, MMA, etc. It is all up to what you are looking for and what fits you best. Actually I am told there is a rather large LEO contingent in the one and only MMA/Muay Thai School in my area. I imagine if there were a Systema school and a Krav Maga school in my area it would be populated by a lot of LEOs as well.

Like I said Police/Military Sanda is quite effective but it is hard to find a real teacher of it in the US and many of the things being taught to you, at least in my state, will get likely land you in court or at least get the person you had the encounter with a get out of jail free card.

Edit:

I knew one LEO that trained, Kendo, Karate, Aikido, Baguazhang and Xingyiquan. It was what he was looking for and he loved martial arts.

[Guardian]

Hey guys

I'm a hair over 6' tall and 205 lbs, stronger than most. Not the
most flexible, but not the least either.

I basically patrol a few buildings in the downtown sector of my city,
inside and out. Not the greatest neighborhood either. Can attract all
sorts of trouble. I've heard I'll need to be prepared for all types of things
from disgruntled employees to crackheads trying to mug and/or kill
people, and possibly you.

Not allowed to carry a firearm in this position, so it all comes down to
H2H on this job.

Plus I'm looking into progressing with this career into armed and
possibly private security positions, so something I can build on
to further my skills and confidence is good.

Thanks!

Thanks for the information, personally I would recommend some Reality Based Personal Protection as mentioned here, check it out, since you are unarmed any good combat training would work, it sounds like your looking for something quick and easy to learn, because the other arts mentioned are not quick and easy by no means, some that are modified yes, but most no.

Just my recommendation would be the Personal Protection, find some bouncers in your area and find out if they trained in anything other then possibly their size and take that up, most really good clubs have excellent trained bouncers, check them out and see where they learned if they did.

Heck, if you have a big enough city, check out the police depts training course and see if you can hook up with their training manager.

[Blaze]

Excellent suggestions, thanks everyone! :D

[TKDJUDO]

Hello, Have you look into JUDO?

Aloha,


Seems like that's the only martial art you recommend seeing that you've recommended Judo in all of the other posts. Don't you see he's looking for Hand to Hand combat, not grappling ?

[jks9199]

Seems like that's the only martial art you recommend seeing that you've recommended Judo in all of the other posts. Don't you see he's looking for Hand to Hand combat, not grappling ?
Grappling is part of hand to hand combat...

It's not the whole thing, but it is part of it.

For street effective function, you want to learn at least enough grappling to handle it if you're grabbed, thrown, or just knocked down. Learning to fall without getting hurt is also a good idea...

[Doc_Jude]

I don't know where you are, but take a look at this:
http://www.cliffstewart.com/
Cliff Stewart and some of his top students are very active in security and bodyguard work. His W.A.R. vids are pretty good too. I can get you a good lead on them if you PM me.

[tellner]

Masaad Ayoob said about Guru Cliff that "he has more black belts than a men's clothing store" and that he's where the professionals go to train.

It's true. Cliff Stewart is an amazing and very dangerous man who turns out top rank professional students. There's a lot of stuff in his mix from Kenpo and grappling to Silat, lots of Silat, and his vast experience.

[Blaze]

I don't know where you are, but take a look at this:
http://www.cliffstewart.com/
Cliff Stewart and some of his top students are very active in security and bodyguard work. His W.A.R. vids are pretty good too. I can get you a good lead on them if you PM me.


Not familiar with this guy, but seems like I should be. Thanks for the
suggestion.

Interestingly, one of the realistic self defense teachers in my city teaches
Parker Kenpo combined with Silat, Kali/Arnis and Kuntao. Seems similar and
maybe my best option.

[woot]

I would say that whatever the art may be, it most likely has a lot of joint lock and takedown techniques.

[Blindside]

Blaze,

Where are you? Maybe someone on the board can provide a suggestion.

Lamont

[SensibleManiac]

Hi I would agree that suggestions would depend on your area.
If your looking into some DVDs, the ones I would recommend are from Richard dimitry, check out www.Senshido.com (http://www.Senshido.com)
Also Marc MacYoung has some very good stuff. He can be checked out at:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
Also thse dvds are cost effective and extremely effective:
www.Stealthselfprotection.com (http://www.Stealthselfprotection.com)
I've worked security in high risk environments before and material from all three have proven beneficial.
You'll most importantly want to train with real resistance and do some emotional climate training.
And if you're looking into a Martial art then yes Judo is very good for that, however Reality Based stuff does offer a more "street" oriented approach.
When it's for real you need an approach that helps you develop your awareness and effectiveness.
I'm extremely grateful to have had both in my training as this helped me get out on top of a few situations that could have ended badly.

My best advice is to never stop training or learning and always stay focused when working dangerous places and neighborhoods. Part of me misses it just thinking about it and a greater part of me doesn't.
Best of luck.

[shesulsa]

I've worked a little in security - not much but a little.

What I strongly suggest you do is start shopping. Put your feet to the pavement and go see these guys. Talk to the head instructor there about training LEO and SO's specifically, who does it and what does that entail. Ask if you have to go through the ranking system to get the knowledge and ask if you can hang out for a night or two to watch or even participate if you sign a waiver.

See them all. Every single one, even if you *really* like the third or fourth one.

If you're interested in martial arts on the side and don't mind going through the ranking system anyway, that's fine - but if you just want some extra training then you need to find out who will give that to you and at what cost.

Then, go with what you think is right, that will suit your requirements. As security your focus is usually on asset protection, you'll need H2H and possibly CQC, pain compliance and control, good cuffing techniques (if you're allowed to carry and use cuffs - we were), education in non-firearms weaponry depending upon what you're allowed to carry in your area.

See if you can find someone who not only trained but worked with or for law enforcement on some level if you can. They'll have more practice, likely - and that's my opinion from seeing folks teach stuff and who haven't been in the field.

While you're asking around, ask opinions on firearms training and weapons retention - you *will* need retention no matter what you carry.

Good luck and stay safe.

[shesulsa]

You'll also want to learn some verbal judo, de-escalation techniques, threat level determination.

[Cruentus]

Near me there are all the usual suspects... Karate, TKD, Judo, Aikido,
Jui Jitsu, MMA, Kung Fu of different varietes, Ninjutsu, Kenpo, FMA,
etc. A couple hours drive there is a Systema, which I think looks
promising but would require me to train in my home gym most of the
time with frequent trips to that dojo for hands-on instruction.

Any and all insights are welcome.

I am of the opinion that the art won't actually matter for your job that much; it will be the tactics that you use rather then the physical skills or techniques.

I don't recommend any art at all. I recommend something reality based.

But, if you want to do an art because you enjoy training and there is that added benefit that it will help you, then I recommend that you pick something grappling oriented because you are in security. As a security officer you will have use of force issues, and may have to grapple to control people rather then beat on em. Also, have it be interactive rather then forms based or esoteric and "self-improvement" oriented. Out of the list, Judo, Jujitsu, and MMA are all good. Systema is OK, but it might not be worth the travel depending on your situation.

You could also do something weapons based as a great alternative choice, like FMA. If you run into the possibilities of dealing with weapons at your job, this might help.

But really, you could take TKD if you enjoy it, and it wouldn't matter that much. It will be your tactics that you use on the job that will matter, not the technique or "style"...

[Cruentus]

Oh... and I should mention that unless it is shooting, stay away from target focused based systems. That has been real popular lately, but I am of the opinion that it's crap.

[TaiChiTJ]

You're looking for a magic answer.

You won't find one.

There are some styles that will likely give you quicker results for self-defense than others (Krav Maga, for example, compared to aikido) but all will, if trained for reality, give you practical defense skills. You'll find cops who train in every style from aikido to Zulu spear fighting, if it's available in their area. A lot depends on your goals; are you looking to save your ass, or to arrest the other guy? Different approaches are needed.

You may want to look at some of the Reality Based Self Defense programs, like Peyton Quinn's Adrenal Stress Training, as well as some direct law enforcement/security defensive tactics schools. Just be careful; there are lots of folks who claim to teach that sort of thing without the experience or skills...


Good advice.

I would make the time to visit all these schools that you say are around you and just watch. Don't nag and waste time but do spend a minute with the instructor. Does he or she look like someone you would want to learn from? Mention your job and career aspirations. Does the teacher think the curriculum the school presents educates a security officer walking alone on concrete or asphalt, alone, with nothing but a baton, at 2 or 3 in the morning? Is a multi-opponent attack simulated, and how soon in the syllabus? If the teacher says something like, "Oh sure, 3rd year students get into that...", think about whether you want to wait that long. How are multi-opponent attacks simulated? with you barefoot and wearing a nice comfortable gi, in a room well lit with the bright flourescents? If that's the case, its going to be up to you to shut the lights off in your garage with some friends simulating attacks to get close to the real thing.

good luck!
:supcool:

[Blaze]

Wow, you guys are awesome. The great suggestions and advice just
keep coming... and coming...

Lots for me to think about. Thanks again everyone!

[harold]

Hey gang

I'm a security officer in a fairly high-risk environment, and feel the need
to upgrade my H2H training beyond the basic training I got with the job.

What martial arts are most commonly trained in among other high-risk,
need-to-survive careers like police, military, security, bodyguards,
etc? And why?

Thanks for the help!

Try different things such as Krav Maga, Systema, and Filipino Martial Arts. A good Kenpo school might be worth checking out but I would suggest that you be wary of any sport oriented martial art.While the aerobic content of these programs is good, the combat aspect, in my opinion, leaves a lot to be desired. As Bruce Lee said (paraphrasing) ' use what works for you and discard what doesn't'

[shesulsa]

I thought I'd return here and point out that we have a new section on MT for law enforcement (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=216), security and protection (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=217).

Please visit!