Whats your opinion on street fighters? I have encounterd many and i think that they are "low class" fighters, they may beat a martial artist, but they dont do it with dignity or style.

I have seen many black belts in karate just fall to peices against a street fighter, because of the pure rage and aggression that they have as well as the unpredictablity, it over powers the opponent it seems......

I personally dont like competiton fighting, i dont think it is what martial arts is about, i think a kung fu practisioner should not be in any "kung fu competitions" or "championships" i think it disgraces kung fu, to me a person who practises kung fu should be a real gentlemen

Please, this is just my personal opinion and i AM NOT forcing it on anyone, im just giving my opinion and would like to know yours

Have you encounterd any street fighters? What are they like?

Whats your opinion on kung fu competitions, are you fore or against them?

wayne

:asian:

An A$$ whuppin is still a whuppin no matter if it is by a martial artist or a street fighter. As for competition it is not everybodies cup of tea, but to think it degrades I think you are trying to deify people. Competition can show some one where their holes are in their defense so that they don't get the whuppin from the street fighter.

Originally posted by wayne
Whats your opinion on street fighters? I have encounterd many and i think that they are "low class" fighters, they may beat a martial artist, but they dont do it with dignity or style.

Who cares about dignity or style? Effectiveness...that's the key.

I have seen many black belts in karate just fall to peices against a street fighter, because of the pure rage and aggression that they have as well as the unpredictablity, it over powers the opponent it seems...

You hit upon something important. It's called, Mindset. If you are not willing to go all the way and someone else is, right from the start, you are at a severe disadvantage on the street. You have to make up your mind what you are in the Martial Arts for before this happens and cultivate the same Mindset or fall prey to it.

That does not mean you become a raving lunatic or a criminal, it simply means that you can turn it on and off when you need it. Takes some time...

Have you encounterd any street fighters? What are they like?

By some people's definition, I would be a "Streetfighter."

As for the Streetfighters I have met, there are several different groups of them...

I knew one guy who kicked everybody's ass that he ever fought. He thought that quite the accomplishment.

The only problem was, he only fought people he knew he could beat. A bully. If he would have run into someone with his Outlook and Mindset, another Bully, that was stronger, faster or more skilled, he would have been wasted in moments.

Other Streetfighters are devious along with being ruthless, they will Pearl Harbor you right after they smile at you...or they turn to leave the area they will wheel and take a shot at you. Sucker Puncher or not, Pearl Harbor Artist or not, it IS effective. In most cases, action beats reaction and you have to prepare accordingly.

I have known others, Bikers and whatnot, that were fast, strong, skilled in Martial Arts, others not, some Boxers...and they were ruthless and you would be hard pressed to defeat them if they really wanted a piece of you.

Like I said, you have to decide what you are trying to obtain from Martial Arts before all of this happens. It is almost a certainty that you will not be fighting your style and you might be fighting someone who is willing to go all the way.

If you are in it just for Spirituality or as a Cultural thing, that's fine too...just realize that those things are not necessarily what we are talking about...

I was in a martial arts competition once that was full of streetfighters who trained martial arts. I believed that martial artists should be respectful, and honorable also, but got a reality check when walked into this competition. A group of streetfights joined these competitions just to woop up on people. The guy I came across did nothing but go for the knock out, he had style and a lot of ruthlessness, but no cup. I didn't intentionally kick him there, but since I got sick and tired of the judge saying show some style and show technique and this guy doing nothing but trying to knock my head off, I started to front kick him in the soft part of his gut, but got something else soft. I did it with style and grace and attitude and got some good results.
My intention to learn Martial arts was to learn how to defend myself and luckily I learned in a semi controlled environment who could be my biggest threat.
I do not like to compete, but I do see the value for some. Competition is a way for people to interact, get feedback on their abilities etc. etc. but what I appreciate most is, it is a way for me to see other arts in action. Competition and tournements are a way for us to learn and see other arts.
I had a streetfighter friend who studied martial arts, he was big strong guy who had seen a lot of street battles. He asked me to train with him, and I started to get the best of him while we were training sensitivity, so he picked me up and put me on the hood of a car. He didn't do it intentionally he had just "crossed over" into his streetfighters mindset. I appreciated that lesson because it again showed me who could be my biggest threat.
Bob

Let us not forget "Mike Tyson!!!! Now he is a prefect example of a streetfighter, with some style and grace.......

Bob

Originally posted by Bob
Let us not forget "Mike Tyson!!!! Now he is a prefect example of a streetfighter, with some style and grace...

Bob

I remember in the late 80s when he was just a brawler that tried to box. :D

Now, after prison and whatnot, he bites people and kicks old guys in the nuts during fender benders. [Actually happened]. :D

Street fighting? Cool!!! One thing that I've noticed is that many of today's martial artists tend to emphasize sport fighting instead of fighting. My instructor has drilled it into our heads that our sparring is not representative of true combat. He's trained us on what a sparring response and what a real life response would be. Sparring has limitations, such as no below the belt, no face hits. In a street fight, you get hit in the face, you get groin kicks. On the street, there are NO rules, so it's best to be prepared for and be able to do anything.

I mean when we spar in class I expect hit somebody in the face or to get hit in the face by somebodyelse. Do I try to hit them full power?? No, well not all the time. ;) I think sparring can be used constructively for refinement and conditioning. You just have to be clear with your partner on what is acceptable and what is not, i.e. dislocating a your buddies collar bone. Sound familiar BOB???

RK

Interesting points guys. Its easy to forget when you're training and sparrin in the controled enviroment what it's like on the streets. No rules, no fair play. Survival, and whatever works.

You either win or lose a fight.

If you lost and it's in a competition I think you should try to learn what you can from your loss and be thankful it was in a competition and not in an attack on the street.

Confucius says;
Only the most wise and the most foolish do not change.


Dojang.co.uk (http://www.dojang.co.uk/)

Frank Trejo once asked when the best time to hit someone was.

The answer = When they ain't lookin'.

And the best time to be hit by Frank Trejo would be NEVER!!!

Biting in boxing is quite frequent. There is a lot of dirty underhanded stuff that goes on that people often never even see. I myself have started applying a neat move that Vladimir from Systema taught me. It's hard to see when done right and very effective.

So you gonna keep it to yourself Gou, or are you going to share the move?

I remember reading a story once about some fencing Masters who had agreed to a duel. I can't remember the details, or find the link that has them (may be somehwere on the ARMA/HACA website), so bear with me:

Two fencing Masters agree to a duel. They both agree to arrive at the agreed upon spot, alone. Master 1 arrives first and waits. When Master 2 arrives, Master 1 says something like "We agreed to come alone, who are all these people with you?" When Master 2 turns to look, Master 1 stabs him.

Later on a friend of Master 1 asks how the duel went and Master 1 replies: "I taught him a trick he had not seen before"

If the story is familiar, and anyone has more details, please let us know. I love a happy ending....

Pierre

If he shared it then anyone who gets to train with him would always be looking for it.

A couple of them.

The first is a destruction using the chest. If you know the punch is coming in and can't stop it or roll, thrust the chest forward beyond the estimated distance so the punch doesn't reach full extenstion. It in effect, breaks the punch, along with knuckles, even in a glove.

In the clinch a lot of people will try to use elbows. Use your pec/shoulder to strike. It sounds silly but it works and is a nice set up for an elbow.

That's so crazy...










...it just might work!

:D

Cthulhu

the true streetfighter is a guy who is doing his own thing, and fighting is just something he knows to do. anybody can be one streetfighter, even the martial artist. but a streetfighter is a guy who gets into it on the street, while the martial artist who is not one just talks about it.

i give you an example. a martial artist, who is no good at it, decides that he is no longer a martial artist, he just calls himself a streetfighter. so he makes theorys and techniques and makes fun of martia artists techniques. he is nothing but a guy who made his own style. but to make it sound effective, he calls himself "streetfighter/realistic combat/street servival expert". yeah whatever.

a martial artist who goes to competitions, and trains every day. this man is not really a streetfighter, until he does it for real, and he knows the difference. the problem with martial artist is that they make to many throies that sounds good and "realistic", but they really dont know.

streetfighters dont run around calling himself a "survival specialist" those guys are using those big words to sound tough. anybody can be one, but just because you are one, it dont mean you are a great fighter. the same goes for the martial artist. but a guy who fights in the competition knows more about what it feels like to hit someone, what it felt like when he got hit, and what doesnt work than the guy who makes viedoes and articles with theory and made up stories.

anyway the advantage of a streetfighter is hes been there. the martial artist who appreciates competition hes been there too. but the "streetfighting expert" who never been there, and he never even been to the competition (like these fat guys with tapes and books), they are fooling themselve and the ones who buy there stuff.

too much theory and ideas. not enough training and testing.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
... what it feels like to hit someone, what it felt like when he got hit...

That's where I agree with you. It's kind of like those boxer vs. karate guy stories we've all heard. The boxer is used to getting hit, and hitting someone for real, so is more prepared for the reality than most tradtional martial artists (this is not a knock - seriously!). Someone (I have no idea who, sorry), once said that studying mixed martial arts, etc, were akin to taking the express elevator to the 5th floor, while studying a traditional martial art is like taking the cargo elevator to the 10th floor.

Nobody looks good in a street fight. I've never seen a graceful neanderthal, which is what you are in a street fight.

Tournaments are games, plain and simple. I hate shooting pool- but I wouldn't go so far as to say it sux- just not my cup of tea. I have some pretty forms I compete with at tourneys, but I teach and train in nasty techniques suitable for any gutter as well.

Never place limits on yourself- the world will do that for you.

I've had a little tiff just the other day. Technically it was a streetfight, but it didn't get very ugly. It was a heated argument, well, I had no idea what was going on and then pop to the nose. I back up, a little dancing, and I just out did him, bloody nose and all. MA might work, might not, but conditioning will always improve your chances.

In street fighting you assume your life will be taken. You do not think, you do. There's a difference between being "aggressed" and being jumped, stabbed and "riverdanced". The situation will be what it is and no one ever KNOWS. Be as ready as you can and learn some good fighting techniques. The best thing to do to prepare yourself is to be very fit. Buy some running shoes and keep your surroundings in mind. If you're attuned to the street trust your vibes and don't walk anywhere that will put you in a comprimising position or situation. 99% of self defense IS common sense. Don't go to the wrong areas, run if you can, fight with all the ferocity and ruthlessness you can muster if you have NO CHOICE and do it immediately. In the tussle, if you think, you're dead.

I've come across some guys in my time who are as hard as nails and if they want a piece of you you'd want to be good. The most common trait they all seem to share is this:
THEY HIT DAMN HARD. I MEAN REAL REAL HARD.
They all mainly seem to have something in they're life which has really affected them and at just the thought of it, makes them feel like drawing blood on the first percieved challenger. It's like something just explodes in them and comes out through to the fist.
No one can stand let alone fight back after being belted bare knuckle like that
And another thing is they won't hesitate for a second. It's very easy to issue a challenge to these sort of people and someone always has to hit first. Chances are it'll be them and it will be hard.
And yes, some of them actually look real good and real tidy doing it. Clean and fast. Then theres a mess.

I've come across some guys in my time who are as hard as nails and if they want a piece of you you'd want to be good. The most common trait they all seem to share is this:
THEY HIT DAMN HARD. I MEAN REAL REAL HARD.
They all mainly seem to have something in they're life which has really affected them and at just the thought of it, makes them feel like drawing blood on the first percieved challenger. It's like something just explodes in them and comes out through to the fist.
No one can stand let alone fight back after being belted bare knuckle like that
And another thing is they won't hesitate for a second. It's very easy to issue a challenge to these sort of people and someone always has to hit first. Chances are it'll be them and it will be hard.
And yes, some of them actually look real good and real tidy doing it. Clean and fast. Then theres a mess.

I hear that. Some guys hit like a train. Not just big guys either. I swears by them bare knuckles. Half my JKD is based on it.