Hell hath no fury...

[Just4Kicks]

My story begins with a party, and an unfortunate encounter with a off bit of finger food. To make matters worse, I had a taekwondo grading to attend for my black tip. After a good sleep, a bath and abstinence from anything resembling food; I decided to go.

I was a bit dizzy but persevered, I didn't want to miss it. If any of you remember, there was a guy who has been bashing me up in class, unfortunately I was paired with him to spar. I managed to get a few hits in (just missing because it is no contact) and he got frustrated and sucker punched me in the jaw.

My lip split and my teeth went through my skin, I have a few loose teeth and a big black bruise. Blood went pouring down my chin and all over my gi, I didn't block the punch because I wasn't on my game.

The thing is, this guy has a track record of injuring girls in class and at gradings; he broke a girl's foot last time.

I don't want to sound weak and whiny, but I'm not here to be bashed up all the time. Sure I get the occassional mistake, no biggie; but this is too consistent.

I'm 17, and my mum is really protective; I'm worried she won't let me go anymore. I do not want to give up taekwondo, I live for it. Any tips on dealing with the situation?

[BrandiJo]

Talk to your Inst, no contact is no contact is no contact. I have NEVER been hit to the point where it split my lip and we do use contact. The person should have enough control and if he doesn't then the inst NEEDS to know.

[Jade Tigress]

This is a problem, and you're NOT being whiney. That is abuse. He broke a girls foot? He hit you hard enough to loosen teeth? He shouldn't be allowed to train. What does your instructor have to say about it? You must talk to him. Yes, you should expect to get hit at times, maybe a bloody nose, a bloody lip, bumps and bruises, it's part of training. But a breaking someones foot and loosening another's teeth? I'm sorry but no, that's not training, that's abuse. Make the SOB pay for your dental bill.

[morph4me]

It isn't whiney to stand up for yourself. This guy is obviously a misogynist and that neeeds to be addresed by either your instructor or some of the higher ranking guys in the class. Personally if I were the instructor I'd set up a sparring session for him with everybody in the class, starting from the lowest rank, no contact and ending with the highest ranked, full contact.

Talk to your instructor and if that doesn't help find another TKD school. While some contact should be expected, so should control, especially at the higher ranks.

[tellner]

You aren't being whiny. This sort of behavior is completely unacceptable, and there is no reason you should put up with it. I'm surprised and a bit angry that your instructor is so clueless that he doesn't see what's going on. Someone who purposely injures other students does not belong in the school no matter how long he's been there. Someone who does it more than once is a reflection on the teacher who allows it.

This is a guy who fundamentally dislikes women. He especially doesn't like women doing things that he thinks only men should be allowed to do like martial arts. His behavior is classic sexual harrassment and isn't any different than the 'man' who leaves naked pictures of himself on a co-worker's desk. It's designed to hurt women who are invading what he sees as his territory. It will not get better ifyou shut up and take it. It will only get better if it earns him bad consequences.

If you can't get him to change his behavior and the head instructor won't do anything, then leave. You're at a school where the teacher isn't doing his job. You're being forced to put up with things that you absolutely shouldn't have to. And let's face it. There are more martial arts schools than you can shake an authentic red oak Japanese bo staff at. This one isn't anything special. You're paying money to be there. Feel free to fire a teacher who doesn't perform up to a minimum standard.

[Sukerkin]

Very sound advice and support being given here :tup:.

If your instructor wont or can't deal with the problem then it is time to take your shoes elsewhere.

As an aside, Gal06, much kudos for having the self control not to deck the chap there and then - I doubt many would've been so restrained at your age in similar circumstances :o.

[exile]

Yes to all of the above posts, but I gotta say, I'm troubled by the fact that this guy has accumulated a track record such as the one you describe, and nothing has been done about it.. There is a major failure of oversight here. The guy sounds like a loathsome jerk, but jerk or not, he isn't supposed be in a position to do what you say he's done: he should have gotten a fairly savage talking-to from the instructional staff at your school long ago, and been bounced if he had continued to injure women afterwards.

If your teachers are on the ball, they should already know what this guy is like and what he does—in which case, there's a big problem, because they are allowing him to persist. If they aren't on the ball and don't know the facts involved, there's also a big problem: part of their job, a big part, is to know that sort of thing. Either way, you should at least scout out the possibility of switching to another school. If I were your mum, you can bet that I'd be seriously considering pulling you out of TKD; if you make moves to improve your own situation by doing some legwork on alternative sources of training, you can preempt the crucial decision and make it clear to her that you aren't willing to allow yourself to be used as a punching bag, and she'll be much more inclined to let you continue training—you can count on it! So a bit of research on other dojangs in your area on your part might be in order...

[arnisador]

Lots of good advice here. You're paying for this experience; if the instructor won't listen to your concerns and protect his students then definitely go somewhere else. If someone is trying to hurt you, sooner or later he'll get a lucky shot in no matter how good you are. If the instructor isn't on top of this, and you don't feel you can approach him, you're in the wrong school regardless of how much you like the other aspects of it. However much you like TKD, it isn't worth a lifelong injury from a dislocated knee or the like. Next year at 18 you'll have so many more options.

But before going there...speak with the instructor. (Possibly you'd feel better approaching an assistant first but sooner or later you'll have to go to the top for something like this unless the assistant has excellent people skills and handles the guy himself.) If you know other women have the same perception, ask them to do the same. Before or after that, you should certainly have the right to "bow out" and decline to work with someone. I have done that many time with wild individuals. Even if I think I'm better than them, sooner or later everyone gets lucky. See what happens if suddenly female students start saying "no thanks" to being paired with him and just sitting that round out. If it costs you a grading one time, well, that's what happens.

This will not get better on its own.

[shesulsa]

I'm particularly happy to see gentlemen on this board agreeing that this is too much. Yes you didn't block, but he clearly lacks control and has some kind of problem. I'm also quite incensed your instructor hasn't stepped in.

It's already been said, but to echo and corroborate; sit down with your instructor. If s/he tells you that if you're gonna play you gotta pay, and he won't do you any favors by being polite ... there *are* safer ways to *effectively* train.

As to your mom, if you wanna make her proud, tell her you're going to sit down with the instructor - and DON'T SPAR WITH THIS MORON UNTIL YOU DO. Just politely refuse. This should show her that you are out to take care of yourself, even in a defense venue.

Good luck and please keep us posted!

[jks9199]

With what's been given here -- I'm beginning to wonder about the competence of the instructors.

There is no way someone with a track record of deliberate disregard of the rules to the point of injuring other students should be getting away with it. Especially if the pattern is either injuring females or weaker or smaller students. That's encouraging and tolerating a bully...

If this went on in my class... I'd probably deliver a very clear object lesson, and I'd strictly limit who that student could spar till I was confident in their control. If there wasn't reasonable progress shown -- well, I don't need a student like that.

[thardey]

You have to hit pretty hard to loosen teeth, especially if you're wearing a mouthguard, which I assume you are. This wasn't an accident. If I could, I would be happy to come spar with him for you :-)

At least make him pay for your dental bills, but first talk to a lawyer. Most fights these days are fought on paper, and a legal paper trail of these kinds of "accidents" may protect other women down the road.

How old is this guy?

[Lisa]

It is your mum's job to be protective. We mom's didn't go through nine months of pregnancy and child birth just to have you all go out and get yourself injured all the time. :p

All I can do is echo the advice given. Speak to the instructor, get his feedback and then go talk to your mom and tell her what proactive things you have done to prevent this from happening again. We moms like that. Makes us think we are raising you right. ;)

I am curious what your instructor's reaction was when this all happened? His reaction will speak volumes as to what kind of man/woman he is.

There was once a guy in my karate class that felt that because we were the same rank, he could kick me as hard as he wanted to. My instructor didn't put up with that and he learned, albeit a little bit of the hard way.

[CoryKS]

This guy habitually causes injuries to the women he works with despite a no contact policy, and yet the instructor continues to pair him with women.

To me, this doesn't sound like cluelessness. You don't fail to see a bloody gi or a broken foot. Are you completely certain that your instructor doesn't share this boy's point of view regarding women?

[Empty Hands]

Well, the others covered what I normally would have said, so I will just say this: always wear a mouth guard, "no contact" or no. You wouldn't have been injured nearly as badly with one on. One senior kenpoka I train with even insists on them for bag work. Accidents happen, you never know where a fist might accidentally fly - although clearly in this case it was no accident.

[Andy Moynihan]

My story begins with a party, and an unfortunate encounter with a off bit of finger food. To make matters worse, I had a taekwondo grading to attend for my black tip. After a good sleep, a bath and abstinence from anything resembling food; I decided to go.

I was a bit dizzy but persevered, I didn't want to miss it. If any of you remember, there was a guy who has been bashing me up in class, unfortunately I was paired with him to spar. I managed to get a few hits in (just missing because it is no contact) and he got frustrated and sucker punched me in the jaw.

My lip split and my teeth went through my skin, I have a few loose teeth and a big black bruise. Blood went pouring down my chin and all over my gi, I didn't block the punch because I wasn't on my game.

The thing is, this guy has a track record of injuring girls in class and at gradings; he broke a girl's foot last time.

I don't want to sound weak and whiny, but I'm not here to be bashed up all the time. Sure I get the occassional mistake, no biggie; but this is too consistent.

I'm 17, and my mum is really protective; I'm worried she won't let me go anymore. I do not want to give up taekwondo, I live for it. Any tips on dealing with the situation?



So if I understand your post correctly:

1) During a sparring engagement in which everyone involved was TOLD no contact, our aforementioned assmunch popped you one hard enough to break skin and loosen teeth just because he has terminal testosterone poisoning, and

2) either the instructor was not present and was allowing sparring to commence unattended, in which case were I your father his ass would be MINE, or

3) That instructor WAS present and either saw the incident occur, or saw the bright red blood against a bright white dobok and did nothing, in which case were I your father his ass would also be MINE.

If that be the case, you need to bring your mom AND your mom's lawyer down there and raise royal hell.

Everyone is there to help everyone learn, not to serve a single bully's vanities.

[newGuy12]

The thing is, this guy has a track record of injuring girls in class and at gradings; he broke a girl's foot last time.

Well, then, its not just you. You may have to talk to your Master Instructor about not freesparring with him.



I don't want to sound weak and whiny, but I'm not here to be bashed up all the time. Sure I get the occassional mistake, no biggie; but this is too consistent.
You are not being whiny.



I do not want to give up taekwondo, I live for it.
No, you most certainly do NOT. Don't give up. There will be a way to continue practice. You will find a resolution to this, if you just persist! If you give up, your life will not be as full! You must not miss out on this!

[Just4Kicks]

Thanks guys, just to clarify the questions I'll write a brief outline.

I was at a grading with many instructors present
It was noticed, it was kinda hard to miss
He is somewhere in his twenties
He has injured three girls, one broken foot, slit lip and heaps of bad bruising
He prefers me as a target for some reason, I suppose I don't back down in sparring like most of them do.
I have spoken both the man and the Head Instructor about this before (for details see my other threads in here)
It was no contact sparring
I haven't sparred him for a long time, since the last incident actually, which has had an effect on my training. We line up, seniors in the first row and juniors in the back. So the seniors turn and pair up with the juniors, and I now never get the chance to spar the black belts. Which I hate because I don't get a chance to learn as much.

Everyone else at the school is excellent, the black belts are skilled, humble and patient. This hard head didn't go through with the resident female black belt so he hasn't been 'worn in' I guess. Sometimes I really want to put him in his place, he hurts some of my junior belt friends at times; bad bruises and the like. It makes me livid, he's too far up to have so little control. Sure a green belt, but not a black tip!

I've suffered elbows to the temple during three step and palm blocks to the cheek in one step from green belts or lower, I get that. But when one gets higher up they get stronger, but power with no control is not strength at all.

[Andy Moynihan]

Thanks guys, just to clarify the questions I'll write a brief outline.

I was at a grading with many instructors present
It was noticed, it was kinda hard to miss
He is somewhere in his twenties
He has injured three girls, one broken foot, slit lip and heaps of bad bruising
He prefers me as a target for some reason, I suppose I don't back down in sparring like most of them do.
I have spoken both the man and the Head Instructor about this before (for details see my other threads in here)
It was no contact sparring

Then it seems to me you have your answer already.

Get out, find another school.

[arnisador]

Then it seems to me you have your answer already.

Get out, find another school.

I have to agree with this, based on the full picture now given. This sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

My guess is that with this type of individual "putting him in his place" will only be taken as encouragement by him to ignore the no contact rules. If you start playing "what's sauce for the goose..." then you've elected to play by the rule that excessive contact is OK when you think it's warranted. I have certainly done this before...but I have also decided not to play that game sometimes. As I get older I take that route more and more; someone, someday will put him in his place for me. (This will probably be a woman who knows how to do a heavy, Muay Thai-style roundhouse to the thigh and has the speed to punish him with it every time he moves.) I advise taking the high road.

I can only conclude that the head instructor sees his aggressiveness and willingness to bend the rules in order to win as evidence that he is hungry, a go-getter, rather than evidence that he's too immature for his rank and is a danger to the students and hence to the continued existence of the school as well (which is how I read the situation based on your comments). These people should be directed to a MMA school where they can see what an aggressive fighter is really like.

Why do you keep paying to go there?

[CuongNhuka]

I hope my Y cromosome allows me to be present, now this sounds somewhat similar to something that happened at my school, twice acctually.

The first was a very large rolly-polly individual who was mean as... well, you get it. He would send people home injured all the time, and people would even quite to get away from him. Now, this was before my time, so this is all hear-say. Well, my Sensei (who was not a Sensei at this point), this guy, and young lady were getting instruction in grappling (we include Judo in our style). Well, they were doing some grappling-prep thing, were they were sitting back to back, and they would go at it from there. Well, there Sensei decided this was unfare, since the young lady was just that, a young, thin (not really frail, but you know what I mean), lady, against a big huge 250 + guy. So, they were put into a wrestling position, with him on his hands and knees, and her with one arm around his neck/shoulder, and the other supporting her upper body.
Well, he grabbed her supporting arm, and slammed her on the matt, hard. She already had a messed shoulder, so yah. This was one of several events. Well, my Sensei's Sensei had to leave eventually, my Sensei took over, and put up with him. He had been lead to beleive that it's not what Cuong Nhu is about to kick people out. Eventually, my Sensei couldn't take it any more, and kicked the guy out.

The second is quite recent. But, I have to go. I'll post probably tomorrow morning.

[newGuy12]

I have to agree with this, based on the full picture now given. This sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

I would tend to agree with this. Are there other dojangs in your area? You should find out. Think about changing schools.

Perhaps this student will quit, but IF this has been brought to the attention of the Instructors (I take it that it has, they were there), then that is troublesome to me. Do not let this interfere with your training. You can learn TKD at some other dojang if necessary. I hope that you are not in a contract at the present school?

In any event, haha, know that you have much respect here, and if you continue to practice this TKD, this adventure will become part of your knowledge. You see, some people teach us what to do. Others teach us what NOT to do. Don't they?





High Regards and Much Respect,

Robert

[grydth]

This guy habitually causes injuries to the women he works with despite a no contact policy, and yet the instructor continues to pair him with women.

To me, this doesn't sound like cluelessness. You don't fail to see a bloody gi or a broken foot. Are you completely certain that your instructor doesn't share this boy's point of view regarding women?

I agree with this opinion entirely. If the instructor were doing his job, this abuse would've been stopped decisively long ago. What a coward the guy who hit you is! He counts on you to follow the rules, which you did, and then hits you with a cheap shot. A woman hater and a coward.

I also say find a different school. Your mother's right to be protective.... but the instructors at your school have a duty to protect you and the other students. They have not done that. You are in martial arts, I'd presume, to avoid having thugs beat you - no reason to get abused like this at your martial arts school.

Best wishes - all places are not like that one!

[Sukerkin]

That's a good last sentiment from NG there.

I know that it could be a hard uprooting to go and find another place to train but, like the other 'experienced' (e.g. OLD :D!) practitioners who have already said so, my recommendation is that you give it one last try with a talk to your sensei and if that yields no 'gold' then go elsewhere.

I've been on the reverse of such a situation in that in my Lau Gar days there was a very 'angry' young lady brown belt who would bewail the living bejezzus out of the lower ranked male students, including me.

She had 'issues' with men it seems and it held her back for years from advancing.

Of course, altho' it's horribly un-PC to say so these days, the rules are different when the 'shoe is on the other foot', especially then, so we were expected to just put up with it. Many did not tho' and they quit martial arts entirely rather than just seek a place without a resident 'problem' student. Many schools have such people at one time or another and different ones are dealt with in different ways. Some get the 'short hard shock' treatment and respond to it, some need to be coaxed into self-control and some have to be ejected.

Don't let one chap, who has not yet learned his lesson one way or the other, drive you away from what you love doing is the final advice. By all means get away having to interact with his influence by going to another school but don't give in.

[Kacey]

As has been said, no contact is no contact. As you say, accidental contact from junior is one thing - intentional and excessive contact from someone who is almost a black belt is unacceptable. I, too, will echo the advice of those who have posted before me: talk to the instructor. If nothing changes, find another school.

Allowing this misogynistic bully to continue to spar - especially with women - is, at best, criminally negligent, and if your instructor, no matter how technically proficient he is, allows such behavior, then his own attitudes are questionable. The best interpretation I can think of is that he doesn't wish to lose the money this student generates - perhaps having several other students leave because of his behavior will point out the error of that thought. Other, less pleasant interpretations also present themselves, but I don't have the information/experience with this instructor to be able to truly speculate.

[shesulsa]

Yup, I agree of course.

If you want to get the instructor's attention? Turn in your uniform and current rank, thank your instructor and every other worthy training partner for his/her time (except the problem student) and walk out.

Don't forget to bow. Because if you don't you will lower yourself to this cretin's level.

There are many places to train.

Good luck!

[tellner]

I haven't sparred him for a long time, since the last incident actually, which has had an effect on my training. We line up, seniors in the first row and juniors in the back. So the seniors turn and pair up with the juniors, and I now never get the chance to spar the black belts. Which I hate because I don't get a chance to learn as much.

Thinking on your clarifications and building on what has been said...

I have a friend who was in law school. By rule all papers and tests were anonymized. He kept getting what he considered unfair, snarky evaluations from a professor. So he went to her with his midterm. He said "I don't really mind being treated like this. I don't even mind that I'm paying to be treated like this. But if I'm going to pay so much to be treated like this you're going to have to wear a little leather bikini. I'm here because I want to be. You're here because you have to be."

Your contract with your teacher is pretty simple. As long as he provides competent instruction and makes a good faith effort you will continue to pay him and contribute to the atmosphere he wants by following the school customs. If he doesn't hold his end up you don't have to reciprocate. You write a check every month to this guy to get the best instruction you can afford in what is essentially an esoteric hobby and sport with a touch of the exotic. To put it very bluntly, you are paying for a service. You are employing the teacher to provide what he promises.

I know it's not as simple as that. He stands in front of the class. You call him "Master" or "Grandmaster" or the Korean equivalent of "Sensei". There's all this ritual and groupthink that makes him a larger than life character who eats solid steel and defecates ball bearings. A lot of class is dedicated to little things that reinforce your subservience and his larger-than-life image.

Difficult as it may be you need to forget all that. He's a man doing a job. Your a customer with a legitimate beef. He's only "Master" as long as you go along with the fiction. If he stands by while people break his customers' bones there's no reason to share the fantasy any longer. Give him one more chance, and then fire his worthless ass for malicious incompetence.


Everyone else at the school is excellent, the black belts are skilled, humble and patient. This hard head didn't go through with the resident female black belt so he hasn't been 'worn in' I guess. Sometimes I really want to put him in his place, he hurts some of my junior belt friends at times; bad bruises and the like. It makes me livid, he's too far up to have so little control. Sure a green belt, but not a black tip!

I've suffered elbows to the temple during three step and palm blocks to the cheek in one step from green belts or lower, I get that. But when one gets higher up they get stronger, but power with no control is not strength at all.

That is criminal. I mean literally criminal. He's causing potentially serious injuries with malice and cruelty, using his superior size, strength and "skill at the destructive arts" to quote a line from an old legal case to hurt people. You shouldn't put up with it. The teacher sure as hell should have done something years ago. By "do something" I mean "chew him out the first time, throw him out the second".

The teacher's inaction tells you that customers' broken bones, dental injuries and worse are a fair trade for the jerk's sixty bucks a month.

There is a word for that. It is not a good word. Especially when it's prefaced by "cheap".

I would strongly recommend that when you talk to the teacher about this you do so as a woman, not a student. Don't wear your uniform. Don't wear jeans and a t-shirt. Wear your most businesslike clothes. Do not refer to him by any title except "Mister". This is not a time where he is the Master and you are the disciple. This is a time when he has screwed up badly, and you are bringing it to his attention and threatening him with the loss of your business.

[tellner]

No. I was wrong. I won't remove the previous post, but I realize that it was the wrong advice.

This kind of thing is legally actionable. "Due care and diligence", "reckless disregard for safety and well being", "promoting an unsafe environment", "tolerating criminal battery", "had been made aware of". All those good words. This is a serious matter that could, perhaps should, involve lawyers and the loss of business licenses. It is not something that someone who is legally a minor - albeit a very brave, competent and level headed one - should have to deal with on her own.

Get as many of the affected young women together as you can. Get other students, preferably older ones who have seen and commented on the appalling negligence. And get your parents and the parents of the affected young ladies involved. It is quite obvious that the teacher holds girls in contempt or this never would have happened. He must be confronted with something that he has no choice but to acknowledge - a group of angry protective parents whose daughters have been injured by his malign neglect.

[tellner]

But before going there...speak with the instructor. (Possibly you'd feel better approaching an assistant first but sooner or later you'll have to go to the top for something like this unless the assistant has excellent people skills and handles the guy himself.) If you know other women have the same perception, ask them to do the same. Before or after that, you should certainly have the right to "bow out" and decline to work with someone.

Good advice. But you're being way politer and more tolerant than I would be. Seriously.

[jks9199]

Accidental contact is just that -- accidental.

It may or may not be hard. It is not intentional. It's not a result of frustration. It's what happens when you've got two people moving around. It's followed by an apology, prompted by the hitter's realization that they screwed up.

It also shouldn't be a chronic pattern, unless there's also clear evidence the person is working on it. (For example, in learning to teach children, I had to really learn to control my own inherent strength and power... because what felt like "nothing" to me WASN'T to them. But I learned.)

And this is where there's a problem. I'm not seeing any evidence that they're actually addressing the source of the injuries. Just how serious an injury will it take for them to decide this guy's a problem?

[exile]

Andy, Tellner, Shesulsa, Kacey, Sukerkin and the others above who are telling you that you need to extricate yourself from this situation are 100% correct, I believe. The MA world is, alas, one of those places where defectives with violent tendencies can find niches in which their need to bully others, suitably camouflaged, can go unchecked. All that they need to do is find a school with management that is either on the same page with them, or so negligent and unconnected to what's happening on floor, that they have no idea how their instructors or students are treating their other students. It sounds to me like you've had the very bad luck to wind up in one of those places.

Tellner's point about legal redress is worth thinking about seriously. Any restaurant whose kitchen hygene were as bad as this school's instructional integrity and responsbility seem to be would be shut down by the health inspectors permanently....

[Just4Kicks]

After the grading, I am told that he was yelled at by the senior instructors. I'm not sure how much trouble he got in or if it will change anything, and I know they have been upset with him for quite some time.

The thing is, recently we thought he had changed, but he's had a relapse. When he spars the lower belts he won't let them get a move in, he attacks vigorously and blocks HARD when they do attack.

I'm moving away soon, so this will not really matter for me I suppose. I'm worried about my friends though, I'm going to talk to my mentor about it all on monday.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, its been a lot of help to sort out my feelings over this.

[newGuy12]

When he spars the lower belts he won't let them get a move in, he attacks vigorously and blocks HARD when they do attack.

That is not good. Good freesparring practice should be like a conversation, give and take. Freesparring in this way is like listening to a speech. There is no give and take, and it is not conducive to learning good technique!



I'm moving away soon, so this will not really matter for me I suppose. I'm worried about my friends though, I'm going to talk to my mentor about it all on monday.

Well, then, this may end up being resolved by the move, then. Your friends will also find a resolution if they continue to seek out instruction, either at this school or at some other school. The student who REALLY wants to learn this TKD will not be denied, they will find a way!

[Just4Kicks]

Also, I was wondering how I should treat the injury, my lower lip has swelled and one of my teeth are numb. Do I just leave it or do I get disinfectant or something?

You're right newguy12, I'm going to find a way to practice it regardless; I'm just concerned over finding a good school. I've had good instruction so far and I don't want to go to a sub par school.

[shesulsa]

Also, I was wondering how I should treat the injury, my lower lip has swelled and one of my teeth are numb. Do I just leave it or do I get disinfectant or something?
OH GOSH! We all forgot to ask about that!

Your lip should be iced and you should see a dentist as soon as possible. Have the dentist look at your lip and see if he can do anything, if not you may have to see a specialist depending on how severe the injury is.

Talk to your parent(s) before you do anything or go anywhere - they will need to monitor your health. Anything put into the mouth will absorb rather quickly and if you have an allergy or sensitivity no one knows about you will need to be observed.

I'm concerned mainly about infection and a numb tooth usually isn't good.

[Kacey]

OH GOSH! We all forgot to ask about that!

Your lip should be iced and you should see a dentist as soon as possible. Have the dentist look at your lip and see if he can do anything, if not you may have to see a specialist depending on how severe the injury is.

Talk to your parent(s) before you do anything or go anywhere - they will need to monitor your health. Anything put into the mouth will absorb rather quickly and if you have an allergy or sensitivity no one knows about you will need to be observed.

I'm concerned mainly about infection and a numb tooth usually isn't good.

I agree - ice, and go see a dentist as soon as possible. If you can't get in to see a dentist, go see a regular doctor. Go to the Emergency Room if you have to - but go NOW. Let us know what the dentist (or other doctor) says.

As far as the guy you had a problem with - beating up on juniors is heinous. So you can beat up a white or yellow belt - so what? The purpose of having juniors spar with seniors is so they can learn from them; if there's a senior who can't beat a junior then something is wrong with the senior - or at least with the senior's training. This is a power play on his part, pure bullying. I'm glad you're moving - but I would still suggest that you talk to your instructor; the more evidence he has against this putz the better.

[jks9199]

After the grading, I am told that he was yelled at by the senior instructors. I'm not sure how much trouble he got in or if it will change anything, and I know they have been upset with him for quite some time.

The thing is, recently we thought he had changed, but he's had a relapse. When he spars the lower belts he won't let them get a move in, he attacks vigorously and blocks HARD when they do attack.

I'm moving away soon, so this will not really matter for me I suppose. I'm worried about my friends though, I'm going to talk to my mentor about it all on monday.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, its been a lot of help to sort out my feelings over this.
He was "yelled at." After deliberately injuring multiple students, in flagrant disregard of the established rules. Wow... I presume that if he was participating in the grading, he was being graded as well. The very barest minimum sanction he'd be looking at from me would be absolute failure of the grading. And, taking you at your word, given his track record... He'd be done. He wouldn't be welcome back in class until he convinced me that he intended to learn to control himself. I can't afford to have students so deliberately injuring other students -- and I'm NOT running a professional school.The liability is just too great.

You thought he'd changed... but with lower belts, he's not helping them train, he's just learned to disguise beating up on them as "hard blocks." He bullies them by not giving them those necessary moments of success that come from having a technique work as advertised. At best, he's selfish. More likely, he's a bully. And that's at a minimum.

If the the instructional staff at the school isn't addressing his behavior in a very effective, very thorough, and very real manner, you have every right to demand an explanation. And to demand a response. Training absolutely carries some risks of injuries. But you should not be beaten up regularly in the manner you describe.

[Live True]

I'm moving away soon, so this will not really matter for me I suppose. I'm worried about my friends though, I'm going to talk to my mentor about it all on monday.

Please let us know how the talk goes on Monday, and certainly let us know about the doc check up on the lip and tooth!

Hoping this jerk gets what he deserves and that you heal quickly!

[morph4me]

Definetly get your mouth checked by a dentist, the human mouth is a breeding ground for bacteria and can easily become infected.

As far as the misongynistic jerk is concerned, if he were my student I'd make sure that his rank reflected his lack of control, and only allow him to spar with black belts until he showed me the appropriate control to regain his present rank and be allowed to spar with lower ranking students.

[tellner]

What they said : See a dentist. It may be too late for ice to do any good.

The school's insurance should be paying for every single bit of your treatment.The only reason you got that injury was their negligence. They knew he was dangerous. They had allowed him to continue training after he had injured several people. It's not even "should have known". It's "was repeatedly made aware and made no effort to insure customer safety".

And while I agree with jks9199 he or she is not going nearly far enough. This guy would have been bounced from any reputable school months ago. The fact that he is still there demonstrates utter contempt on the part of the owner for the safety of his students and a complete lack of professionalism.

Get your parents and the parents of the other young women who've been beaten up to pay for every penny of medical care. And let what passes for a chief instructor know that he's getting off easy. It could easily be the school and everything he owns.

[Sukerkin]

Tellner I empathise with your passion completely but I think it's introduced a brain-keyboard hiccup in this instance. Check that your last paragraph says what you want it to (or elaborate so that dullards such as I can re-interpret what we think we're reading :D).

[Tez3]

Tellner, you've hit the nail on the head, absolutely the school should be paying for the treatment!
I'm afraid I have an old fashioned instructor, the first time he would see something like this he would warn them, if they did it again he would say nothing but he'd spar with them himself then throw them out, he gives people one chance and one chance only with something like this.

I was sparring sometime ago with a guy who was considerable bigger than myself though ranked lower, he swept me and I went down, fair enough but as I getting back up he swept me again very hard and I went down twisting my knee badly. This guy had gone too heavy before so Mick my instructor said nothing but put his gloves on (we don't use shin guards, body protectors etc) and motioned for the big guy to go on the mat, he smirked thinking it was a great honour. Mick proceeded to take him to pieces, not striking hard but in enough places fast so that the guy knew he could be destroyed if Mick wished. Then Mick placed a delicate kick to an atemi point on the inside of the thigh (not the groin) and the big guy dropped to the floor on his knees, he turned red, white then grey and rushed of the mats outside where he threw up.
None of the rest of us could say anything, it was an amazing display of control but power at the same time.

[tellner]

Tellner I empathise with your passion completely but I think it's introduced a brain-keyboard hiccup in this instance. Check that your last paragraph says what you want it to (or elaborate so that dullards such as I can re-interpret what we think we're reading :D).

Well, I am a little ticked off, and some of it is for personal reasons.

But that said, here it is as clearly as I can say it:

The best you can say about the school is that they are appallingly negligent. They have allowed a situation which they know to be dangerous to develop and continue. The person in question had injured students several times in the past. He has continued to do so even after being warned. Now, I'm not an attorney, but I don't think it's unreasonable that they could and should be held responsible for the consequences of an unsafe situation they allowed to develop.

If the owner(s) object it can be pointed out that the consequent rise in the school's insurance rates and the expense of the deductible is a small price to pay. There are several students who were injured due to a situation which the should have done something about. If it were to go to court a predatory attorney could take the owner for quite a bit on that basis alone. If the school is a sole proprietorship, as many are, or if a court rules that there is reason to breach the wall between corporation and owner it could worth everything the chief instructor owns by the time everyone injured gets a piece.

Given that "Make good the harm you did" is very generous indeed.

[Sukerkin]

Ah, I think you missed my point mate. I interpreted what you meant from the tone but what you typed was this:

Get your parents and the parents of the other young women who've been beaten up to pay for every penny of medical care. And let what passes for a chief instructor know that he's getting off easy. It could easily be the school and everything he owns.

Which, to my idiot brain at least, does not state what you, clearly, intended to.

Wish I'd just PM'd you now :o.

[Steel Tiger]

Its very sad that we have to admit this guy is an Australian. I had hoped, for your sake, that he had disappeared, never to return, but here he is again. This guy is a beast with some serious issues and a badly deformed view of the world.

Lots of good advice that I cannot but agree with. There is one thing though. There are clearly a number of women in your class, many of whom have had encounter with this fella, and I suspect those who haven't know what he is like. I would like to suggest a little sisterly solidarity and send him to Coventry, so to speak. The upper echelons might start to work things out if all the women in the class refused to train with the ape.

However, the fact that he has been involved in more than a few incidents with no serious repercussions indicates to me that there might be a certain degree of blokeyness about the school. While he may get castigated for his actions, he is suffering no meaningful punishment. This says to me that there is an implicit acceptance of his behaviour. These are Aussie men who can be mind-numbingly sexist. I grew up with guys who would fit exactly into the description you have given of this guy.

It may seem like a tough thing to change schools after so much work, but it may just be the right thing to do. You never know, it might be incredibly rewarding.

[shesulsa]

I have to say, getting "yelled at" is just plain not enough.

I've never made the gym pay for medical treatment for any of my injuries, but I've never been subject to these kinds of circumstances. Hence, I'd suggest you ask the gym to pay for your dental and doctor bill as well.

Further, if you're moving soon anyway, it would be easier to keep training there and just plain refuse to work with the oaf ... but still. I'd feel a lot more satisfaction, if it were me, to see a higher up don gloves and teach the ass a thing or two.

I dunno - maybe they're trying to turn a problem he has or something but you didn't sign up to be the heavy bag, nor did anyone else.

If it were one person getting this, I'd say less (and have) but as it's more than one and they're all female ... well ... it's time to do something about that good old boy's club.

I'm also not one to run to court and I'm not saying you don't have grounds according to local laws here in the U.S. and perhaps you may have a moral obligation in the eyes of others to shut this operation down. But there are less expensive ways to do so. Like ... find another school you *really* like (even better if you can get all the roughed-up girls to join you) and have a piece in the paper about the challenges of being female in the dojang. Mention the other school in general terms (that TKD school in *that city* didn't seem too female-friendly to you). The message will be clear.

[arnisador]

I agree that while a lawsuit may be merited it's surely the hardest way to go about it. (Imagine the lawyer asking you why you kept returning to a situation you knew to be dangerous.) See the dentist. Submit the bill to either the school or the individual, sure. But unless you're seriously injured, I'd advise chalking it up to experience and moving on.

It's fun to fantasize about someone teaching him a lesson. Many of these types don't get it even then and just take it as a sign that beating on others is the mode. Who knows what's going on in his head. But, extricating yourself from a dangerous situation is the very nature of self-defense. I don't work with these people anymore. I'm too old and take too long to heal, and even if I am the more competent fighter he (or she--rest assured that some women have something to prove to men*) will surely get in either a lucky shot or a cheap shot when we are practicing a technique back-and-forth in drill rather than sparring. If I'm out for three weeks that's just three weeks of degrading skills for me. Why do that for some jerk?

In any event, the legal strategies may be formally justified but I don't think they're for you. (I'd give different advice to the woman with the broken foot.) Find another school. Explain your actions to your mother. As a parent I can say that I beg my kids to take such initiative. My 17 year old son would walk into a spinning propeller if I didn't tell him to keep his eyes up while he's walking. Taking the initiative is a good sign.


(*No, of course I don't mean the time I worked out with shesula in Buffalo! She was very nice.)

[shesulsa]

I agree that while a lawsuit may be merited it's surely the hardest way to go about it. (Imagine the lawyer asking you why you kept returning to a situation you knew to be dangerous.) See the dentist. Submit the bill to either the school or the individual, sure. But unless you're seriously injured, I'd advise chalking it up to experience and moving on.

It's fun to fantasize about someone teaching him a lesson. Many of these types don't get it even then and just take it as a sign that beating on others is the mode. Who knows what's going on in his head. But, extricating yourself from a dangerous situation is the very nature of self-defense. I don't work with these people anymore. I'm too old and take too long to heal, and even if I am the more competent fighter he (or she--rest assured that some women have something to prove to men*) will surely get in either a lucky shot or a cheap shot when we are practicing a technique back-and-forth in drill rather than sparring. If I'm out for three weeks that's just three weeks of degrading skills for me. Why do that for some jerk?

In any event, the legal strategies may be formally justified but I don't think they're for you. (I'd give different advice to the woman with the broken foot.) Find another school. Explain your actions to your mother. As a parent I can say that I beg my kids to take such initiative. My 17 year old son would walk into a spinning propeller if I didn't tell him to keep his eyes up while he's walking. Taking the initiative is a good sign.


(*No, of course I don't mean the time I worked out with shesula in Buffalo! She was very nice.)

I couldn't agree more*.

*Thanks and returns.

[tellner]

While a lawsuit may be difficult, the credible threat of one is a great bargaining position should the owner of the school not see reason. Lois Bujold said "A weapon is a tool for making the enemy change his mind." It does not have to be fully employed to be effective. One probably need not sue. All that is necessary, should the owner not take the complaint seriously, is that it could be done.

Sukerkin, on rereading I see what you mean. Let's put it down to vapor lock brought on by mixing coffee with amphetamines :(

[Just4Kicks]

I have training tonight and the dentist tomorrow, but if there is anything wrong they can't do much. If I have damaged a nerve they won't know something's wrong till the tooth turns black and if the root is broken I'll need it pulled out.

Hopefully no real damage was done, except for my lip which looks like it may be infected. It was looking alright for a while there too.

No one at the school wears mouth guards, but I'm getting one made now because it just ain't worth it. Hmmm.... what colour should I get?

I'm not going to spar him, I'm done with that now. My lip makes it nearly impossible to eat or drink without a straw and everyone thinks I have an abusive boy friend. I think I might talk to my friends about not sparring him, because he really has zero control.

[jks9199]

"No one at the school wears mouthguards"...

I think that just clinched it for me. The school is being run irresponsibly.

Mouthguards are inexpensive, but basic safety items for sparring. Not only can they protect your teeth and reduce the extent of trauma to the mouth... they play an important role in reducing the likliehood of concussion, too.

I'm not saying that mouthguards need to be worn all the time in class -- but if you're sparring, it's time for the mouthguard.

[BrandiJo]

Mouth guards are cheep and easy to use. There is NO reason not to wear one they come in all different shapes and colors and sizes so you are able to find one that fits and works for you. Not requiring one is well beyond irresponsible.

I made the mistake of not having one once, my inst pulled me a side and told my a story of when he was sparring, apparently one of them (i forget who) was not wearing a mouth guard, and got kicked hard in the mouth, sucks in and of its self, but thats not all the nail of the big toe got wedged between the front teeth and was ripped off. That was a painful and bloody lessen learned. so wear one for your safety and for those you train with .. plus eww having someones foot in your mouth!

[shesulsa]

"No one at the school wears mouthguards"...

I think that just clinched it for me. The school is being run irresponsibly.
For real.


Mouthguards are inexpensive, but basic safety items for sparring. Not only can they protect your teeth and reduce the extent of trauma to the mouth... they play an important role in reducing the likliehood of concussion, too.

I'm not saying that mouthguards need to be worn all the time in class -- but if you're sparring, it's time for the mouthguard.
Props, friend. I don't think many people understand the importance of mouthguards in preventing concussion. Thanks for bringing it up.

[newGuy12]

I have training tonight and the dentist tomorrow, but if there is anything wrong they can't do much. If I have damaged a nerve they won't know something's wrong till the tooth turns black and if the root is broken I'll need it pulled out.

Please let the dentist decide if there is anything that can be done. You are too young to not have this taken care of properly. You have a lot of years left to live, so do not let this go without treatment.



I'm not going to spar him, I'm done with that now.
I say this is a good thing. You should tell you Master Instructor that you do not wish to spar with this student, period. If that means that he/she kicks you out of the school, well, that's it. No more sparring with this guy.


My lip makes it nearly impossible to eat or drink without a straw and everyone thinks I have an abusive boy friend.
Haha! This lip is not so important as the teeth, but the dentist can tell you if it is very serious. If it is just puffed up and you cannot talk and so forth, then remember this: We wish to avoid these injuries, but, if and when they occur then you can always know this:

If someone comes up to you on the street and tries to grab you and force you in a car or something, you will NOT have to worry about "Oh, what if they bust my lip if I fight back!" NO! hahaha! That has already happened to you, and it will not kill you! This will only make you NOT to be fearful of the contact. You will get this "prize" from what happened!

Some students would quit and stop practicing if this happened to them, but you will not quit, and so even these bad things have some good parts about them. You now know that if someone DOES get a good strike to your mouth, well, then, okay, that did not kill you this time, and --- you can give it back, too! You will be stronger with time and can BAM! give it right back! That's right!

And everyone who see's you just might think that this is a strong girl, one who practices hard, even if contact like this ensues. You better not mess with this strong girl, because she will not give up so easy, NO!

[Live True]

[quote=jks9199;894439Mouthguards are inexpensive, but basic safety items for sparring. Not only can they protect your teeth and reduce the extent of trauma to the mouth... they play an important role in reducing the likliehood of concussion, too. [/quote]

Can you elaborate on how a mouthgard can prevent concussion?
Thank you!

[BrandiJo]

Can you elaborate on how a mouthgard can prevent concussion?
Thank you!

If i remember correctly it helps absorb some of the impact as they are a plastic/ rubbery compound, also the way you hold it in place (bitting down) keeps your head more stable, so less movement of the head less chance of the brain getting rattled ... i don't remember where i heard this from, nor do i know it if is 100% correct so take it with a grain of salt and weigh it against others inputs here as i am sure someone is more knowledgeable them me will soon be ringing in :)

[arnisador]

While a lawsuit may be difficult, the credible threat of one is a great bargaining position should the owner of the school not see reason.

Full agreement! The owner would be taking a gamble if he didn't agree to pay the dental bill--it's a small price to pay against the possibility of losing a suit against several clients. But going forward with the suit would likely be challenging too. It's a great example of the law encouraging a reasonable compromise between the parties, even if it doesn't settle the issue of the overly aggressive individual who is the pirncipal source of all this grief.

By the way, I never wear a mouthguard...but the instructor where I train strongly encourages it and requires that everyone own and bring one (which I do). Hypocrite that I am, I make my son and his $5000 worth of orthodontically straightened teeth wear one.

[newGuy12]

I never wear a mouthguard
Neither do I, but we all have good control at our school, so, life is a risk I suppose.

[theletch1]

Try this (http://www.brainpads.com/Med_sportsDentistry.htm) link and this (http://www.sportsdentistry.com/concussion.html) link and finally this (http://www.fightdentist.com/gpage3.html) link for some info on mouthguards and concussion.

[Kacey]

I agree with the above - mouthguards are cheap; teeth do NOT grow back.

[Live True]

Thanks for all who replied with information on mouth gards and concussions....definately sounds like a cheap alternative to lots medical care. Thanks all!

Taekwondo gal...hope your dentist appointment goes well!

[Steel Tiger]

I have training tonight and the dentist tomorrow, but if there is anything wrong they can't do much. If I have damaged a nerve they won't know something's wrong till the tooth turns black and if the root is broken I'll need it pulled out.

Hopefully no real damage was done, except for my lip which looks like it may be infected. It was looking alright for a while there too.

No one at the school wears mouth guards, but I'm getting one made now because it just ain't worth it. Hmmm.... what colour should I get?

I'm not going to spar him, I'm done with that now. My lip makes it nearly impossible to eat or drink without a straw and everyone thinks I have an abusive boy friend. I think I might talk to my friends about not sparring him, because he really has zero control.

The more I hear about this school the less there is to like about it. Once again, like the others, I have to say it might be time to take your hard earned experience and apply it in another school.

I am also happy to hear that you are considering getting your friends not to work with him. It should drive home the point to the higher ups.

[jks9199]

The more I hear about this school the less there is to like about it. Once again, like the others, I have to say it might be time to take your hard earned experience and apply it in another school.

I am also happy to hear that you are considering getting your friends not to work with him. It should drive home the point to the higher ups.
From what's been posted...

It's shameful that it went this far. It's embarassing to ME that someone's abhorrent behavior like that was tolerated and apparently rewarded...

It's shameful that the instructional staff there didn't respond to this jerk's stunts. It's pitiful that a student is having to bring the problem WHEN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VISIBLY INJURED to their attention.

At this point -- I've got to say it's time to get the hell out of there. It ain't worth it, even if you have to eat the costs of breaking a contract. It's gotta be cheaper than the medical costs are going to be!

[granfire]

I have read the story a few days back on another forum and the more I read the more upset I get.

In essence a grown man is allowed to beat up on teenage girls, leaving a black lip and busted teeth...that is beyond wrong!

There is no point in talking to the instructors evidently since this guy has a LONG track record.

The rules for our school state that at anytime you can remove your head gear and bow out of a sparring match. I have been hit hard in the jaw where it was sore for a couple of days. But to bust a tooth and blacken the tissue...the force is too hard! Especially when you do not expect it in a no contact match!! That is malice, not an accident!

Please, by all means, present the offender and the school with your medical bills. If your tooth is indeed broken, you will need some extensive treatments and there is no reason those two parties should not come up with the cash since they screwed up royally!

As to the mouth guard, the color is not that important as the fit. We use top only in orange. The color I guess to be visible enough to make sure at a quick glance the piece is in and not so dark you can't tell the color from blood - but we are no contact so that has not come up as far as I know. You can also ger a double mouth piece like the boxers. Might send a message when you put it on.

Definetly discourage your teenage friends to spar this sicko! Life is too short! It is just not worth it! And the more I read about it, the more mad I get. Any of the instructors in my area would have torn this guy a new one, including the boot out of the school. But Maybe it's just being in the States where anybody suits everybody at the drop of a hat...the liability to have that guy around is just too big!

And no, the instruction in the place is also not top notch if that is allowed to continue. Sparring matches should not me decided by the luck of ranking and attendance, but by size and skill...and age to a degree. I do get to spar juniors, boys that are about 13 years old and a few older girls, but they are my size or bigger...NO WAY do I beat the snot out of them. They are kids, not punching bags. The rule at our place is that the more experienced help the lower ranks out, though you do get to request their assistance if you want to work on something...elbows to the temple in one steps? broken feet...busted lips and teeth....gawd...turn Mum lose already! Enough is enough!!!

[HelloKitty]

I read the post and the replies and I think like Steel Tiger, jks and granfire. It's not possible this guy is repeatedly beating up lower grades and the worst thing happened to him was "being yelled" by the instructors.

Besides, things like "no one in the school uses mouthguard", etc shows lack of care for the students. IMHO this simply can't happen.

Think if this guy doesn't have self control and the instructors don't seem to care, anyone assure you he'll not lose control and hit you or something again. I think you can perfectly practice in other school, because there you are exposing yourself.

"Once, shame on him. Twice, shame on you".

I wish you the best,

[granfire]

Anything new? How did the dentist visit go?

[blackxpress]

Whiny, shminy. You're right, they're wrong. There's no excuse for that kind of shenanigans in a dojo. Our sensei would have a cow if something like that happened. I've trained with teenage girls in the past and we didn't cut them any slack but we would have been mortified if something like this had happened. For that matter, we won't tolerate the men punching each other in the mouth. Anybody that doesn't know how to pull a punch shouldn't be allowed to spar. I realize accidents happen but broken teeth and broken feet are way outside the category of "accidents." A fat lip is an accident. What happened to you was no accident. That guy needs to be banned from the dojo. Period. If he'd have done that to one of our female students he'd be history.

Bottom line: Make the school pay your bills. If they refuse, sue the crap out of them. And, by all means, find a better place to train where they don't tolerate such neanderthal behavior.

[exile]

Whiny, shminy. You're right, they're wrong. There's no excuse for that kind of shenanigans in a dojo. Our sensei would have a cow if something like that happened. I've trained with teenage girls in the past and we didn't cut them any slack but we would have been mortified if something like this had happened. For that matter, we won't tolerate the men punching each other in the mouth. Anybody that doesn't know how to pull a punch shouldn't be allowed to spar. I realize accidents happen but broken teeth and broken feet are way outside the category of "accidents." A fat lip is an accident. What happened to you was no accident. That guy needs to be banned from the dojo. Period. If he'd have done that to one of our female students he'd be history.

Bottom line: Make the school pay your bills. If they refuse, sue the crap out of them. And, by all means, find a better place to train where they don't tolerate such neanderthal behavior.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

TKDG, you have got to find a school where you're treated decently. Suppose this had happened to one of your good friends, someone you really cared about. Would you tell them to soldier on, that that's just the way it is and they have to take it? I don't think so! You'd insist that they find a better place to train....so why would you ignore the same advice you'd give them?

[Dagney Taggert]

BROKE a girl's foot????? This guy sounds like an insecure sniveling baby who has crappy, low end, fighting spirit and zero self esteem. He is the one who is whining, not you.

During one of my first BJJ classes, I had a blue belt (male, who outweighed me by about 80 pounds), throw a few snarky moves around when he knew I had no clue about any defenses. My instructor put this a quick stop to this after about 45 seconds, literally. And very low fanfare, all he said was "Are you going to at least teach her the defense for that?"

You sound like a terrific, fine young woman. Take your abilities to an equally terrific, fine dojo. MA is a life long process. Do not allow bad mentoring to cut your training short before your prime and spoil your passion.

Dagney

[SiMui]

Is there an update on what happened to TKDG06? I'm curious with how it all panned out. I hope someone paid, and I hope you are taken care of!

[Fiendlover]

I'm your age and i had a similar issue with abbuse from an instructor herself. She wasn't an owner but still an instructor and during sparring one time (contact) she wanted to get me back for i beat her last time (and i was a green belt at the time) and she kept punching me in the face which is not allowed! You're only supposed to hit wear you have gear and the face is not allowed but she wouldnt stop. punch after punch went at my face. Afterward I didn't want to tell anyone because I thought it was whimpy so my mm did (who saw it) but I wasn't in as injured as you were. I didn't even bleed. But she's an instructor and she should know better and your partner should also have known better and not get out of control like both our partners did.

You should definately tell your instructor, because that is definately out of hand. My main instructor talked to her and she had to apologize which she didn't, instead she started talking about guys and how she had to show them up and eventually she got kicked out completely for abuse among other things.

Your instructor will handle the situation and it is best you tell him before your partner continues to abuse other girls.

Good luck with that, I wish you the best, and i hope he gets what he deserves.

[Just4Kicks]

Hey guys, I left that school a few months ago and I'm now cross training in Judo and Taekwondo (Olympic). The school is a tad too centered on tournament, which really isn't practical in my opinion, but they do take more precautions which I appreciate. Judo has been fantastic however, I've shaped up my rolls and break falls and most of it is really useful.

As for the incident; thankfully my teeth are fine but I have a nice lump in my lip still from the punch but you can't see the scar tissue. A good reminder I suppose! I guess I tend to learn the hard way, perhaps I'll learn quicker next time.

I left the school, and from people who still attend I heard that the guy has been curbed and is finally civil towards the ladies ( My mentor took it up to him). Here in Australia we don't sue so much, and because there was nothing terribly wrong (I think I flinched just enough thankfully), I didn't press charges.

I know that I shouldn't have taken it for so long; I'm no one's punching bag. But I'm older and hopefully wiser now; thank you for your support.

Fiendlover: I totally understand what you mean; I didn't want to seem weak especially because I was the highest ranked girl there most of the time. It was me the other girls looked to, so I had to hang tough. But there are many kinds of strength; I was just displayed my obstinate refusal to back down. Once someone reaches a certain belt, you have to expect more of them. You DON'T take your personal issues with you onto the mat.

I don't think that I shouldn't be allowed to spar guys, how can I be prepared if I don't? Mixing up sparing is a good thing,it keeps thing fresh. This wasn't a lack of control but more of a lacking of caring. He had to prove he was better than me by shedding some blood.

[Sukerkin]

You're welcome :rei:.

[terryl965]

Well as an Instructor and a male, I need to say this he is not a man at all. If he was, at my school he would have been deck by me or anyone of the men in a class, as men we need to understyand what the rukes of engagement is and even if it is full contact(sorry here Ladys) my male student will not go 100% just for the fact you ladys do not need a 250 lb. man beating on you. Hell I do not need a 250 lb man beating on me :rofl:, if your instructor will not intervien it is time to leave and find a school with some dignity and morals. Best of luck to you in your training.

[Kacey]

Fiendlover: I totally understand what you mean; I didn't want to seem weak especially because I was the highest ranked girl there most of the time. It was me the other girls looked to, so I had to hang tough. But there are many kinds of strength; I was just displayed my obstinate refusal to back down.

There are, indeed, many kinds of strength - and admitting when someone is out of control and injuring people is one that many people don't learn for others; I'm glad to hear that you did. Ultimately, in the long run this is the best example you can set for others.

When I was a yellow belt, there was a female blue belt who thought she was hot stuff... and she used to prove it by beating on all of us who were junior to her. We told the senior student, who sparred her the way she sparred us... and then explained to her why he'd done it, and that bullies were not allowed. She never did come back after that.


Once someone reaches a certain belt, you have to expect more of them. You DON'T take your personal issues with you onto the mat.

Definitely!


I don't think that I shouldn't be allowed to spar guys, how can I be prepared if I don't? Mixing up sparing is a good thing,it keeps thing fresh. This wasn't a lack of control but more of a lacking of caring. He had to prove he was better than me by shedding some blood.

And that's exactly the wrong attitude for a martial artist to have - it's a street-fighter mentality, and not appropriate in the dojang. I'm glad someone finally knocked some sense into him, and I'm sorry it took so long and such injuries, along with good students leaving, for someone to do it.

Thanks for the update!

[Touch Of Death]

It isn't whiney to stand up for yourself. This guy is obviously a misogynist and that neeeds to be addresed by either your instructor or some of the higher ranking guys in the class. Personally if I were the instructor I'd set up a sparring session for him with everybody in the class, starting from the lowest rank, no contact and ending with the highest ranked, full contact.

Talk to your instructor and if that doesn't help find another TKD school. While some contact should be expected, so should control, especially at the higher ranks.Having no control and hating women are not the same thing.
sean

[Touch Of Death]

I have read the story a few days back on another forum and the more I read the more upset I get.

In essence a grown man is allowed to beat up on teenage girls, leaving a black lip and busted teeth...that is beyond wrong!

There is no point in talking to the instructors evidently since this guy has a LONG track record.

The rules for our school state that at anytime you can remove your head gear and bow out of a sparring match. I have been hit hard in the jaw where it was sore for a couple of days. But to bust a tooth and blacken the tissue...the force is too hard! Especially when you do not expect it in a no contact match!! That is malice, not an accident!

Please, by all means, present the offender and the school with your medical bills. If your tooth is indeed broken, you will need some extensive treatments and there is no reason those two parties should not come up with the cash since they screwed up royally!

As to the mouth guard, the color is not that important as the fit. We use top only in orange. The color I guess to be visible enough to make sure at a quick glance the piece is in and not so dark you can't tell the color from blood - but we are no contact so that has not come up as far as I know. You can also ger a double mouth piece like the boxers. Might send a message when you put it on.

Definetly discourage your teenage friends to spar this sicko! Life is too short! It is just not worth it! And the more I read about it, the more mad I get. Any of the instructors in my area would have torn this guy a new one, including the boot out of the school. But Maybe it's just being in the States where anybody suits everybody at the drop of a hat...the liability to have that guy around is just too big!

And no, the instruction in the place is also not top notch if that is allowed to continue. Sparring matches should not me decided by the luck of ranking and attendance, but by size and skill...and age to a degree. I do get to spar juniors, boys that are about 13 years old and a few older girls, but they are my size or bigger...NO WAY do I beat the snot out of them. They are kids, not punching bags. The rule at our place is that the more experienced help the lower ranks out, though you do get to request their assistance if you want to work on something...elbows to the temple in one steps? broken feet...busted lips and teeth....gawd...turn Mum lose already! Enough is enough!!! Chill; its a contact art.
Sean