question about five swords

[KrayONE]

wats up guys. Im relatively new here but sometimes come by for a lil read now and then. But something has been bugging me the past few days on the technique five swords. when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist what if u miss w ur inward block and ur opponents roundhouse puch knocks ur own check hand into ur own face? I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys!

[Blindside]

wats up guys. Im relatively new here but sometimes come by for a lil read now and then. But something has been bugging me the past few days on the technique five swords. when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist what if u miss w ur inward block and ur opponents roundhouse puch knocks ur own check hand into ur own face? I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys!

You should be moving inside arc of the punch, if you miss the inward block, your left hand gets to deal with a lower power shot than if you stayed in place. Also you have the left in place to absorb the shot should you miss, there is nothing wrong with tucking that left arm against the side of your head in a high gaurd.

If you were going to deal with the attack primarily with the left you would position the left hand differently.

Lamont

PS: Could you please type in full words "u" and "ur" are really annoying.

[michaeledward]

First things first ... Don't miss your block.

There are several thoughts about where the left hand should be.

Some people say that the right hand is in the high zone, so the left hand should be covering the middle zone. I can buy that.

Some people say that the right hand should be blocking at the forearm, and the left hand should be right next to the right hand, blocking at the wrist. This puts the left hand in a great place for the heel palm. I can buy that, too.

I don't know what you mean about the '45', unless you're talking Colt.

Either way ... welcome. and keep training.

[KrayONE]

thanks for the quick replies! what i mean about 45, its everything is stronger at a 45 degree angle ie: upward blocks, inward blocks, extended outward blocks, so with that the left hand that is a positional check and not an actual block or anything its said to be kept close to you, but it would be weak, in case you DO miss with your right inward block :)

[Jim Hanna]

Well, you're right that the classical inward block should be done to a 45, i.e. 10:30 and that it is the strongest of the inward block variations.

However, if you step into 12:00 and execute a classic inward block, you will not be able to block at the brachioradialis muscle/radial nerve UNLESS you're uke starts too far back--which is what often happens.

So, you have a choice: you can step in and do an inward block to 9:00 which will attack the biceps but you must then use the left hand to block the forearm. The inward block is not as strong, of course.

Or, you can do a cutting inward strike i.e. block at the biceps and cut or rake through.

Or, you can do a classical inward block by stepping in and striking the brachial plexus tie in at the deltoid/pec.

So many variations--the one thing that I dislike though is when the uke starts so far back that, in actuality, the kenpo practitioner does not even have to block. As long as he does not move, then the punch won't reach him.

Jim

[michaeledward]

I would not, personally, spend my time worrying about a 45.

I would be paying attention to a) establishing my base, b) facing my work, and c) having a complimentary angle to the incoming attack.

[Ray]

when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist Every block is a strike. Every strike is a block. I teach beginner's to block with the forearm, and as they gain experience and expertise they find they can block with a hammerfist or a handsword.

[ChadWarner]

wats up guys. Im relatively new here but sometimes come by for a lil read now and then. But something has been bugging me the past few days on the technique five swords. when you step forward with your inward block and u have ur left hand as a check, where exactly is this positional check meant to be? since its not supposed to be a strike to the inside of the wrist what if u miss w ur inward block and ur opponents roundhouse puch knocks ur own check hand into ur own face? I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys!

Attack the attack. The attack can be at the bicept and inside of the wrist. Accompanied by said movements is the step forward, important because the step is in part designed to control depth of penetraition by your opponent. The reason why the opponents hand even touches you is because you are not controlling his depth of penetraition. Hard to say exactly what the problem is without seeing it though. Just my best guess though- take action sooner, might just be that you are waiting too long.

[KrayONE]

Attack the attack. The attack can be at the bicept and inside of the wrist. Accompanied by said movements is the step forward, important because the step is in part designed to control depth of penetraition by your opponent. The reason why the opponents hand even touches you is because you are not controlling his depth of penetraition. Hard to say exactly what the problem is without seeing it though. Just my best guess though- take action sooner, might just be that you are waiting too long.

I'm talking about the opponents roundhouse punch knocking my own check hand into my face, if i somehow do NOT block with my initial inward block/ inward hammer fist or whatever floats your boat here, just wondering your guys' opinions on where this left check hand should be positioned. again thanks for all your input, very fast input...

[MJS]

I learned this technique with 2 knife hand blocks to the punching arm. One thing to keep in mind is to begin your defense before the punch gets past the half way point. Considering I'm moving in and not back on this technique, I don't want to rely on just one hand to block the punch.

[ChadWarner]

I'm talking about the opponents roundhouse punch knocking my own check hand into my face, if i somehow do NOT block with my initial inward block/ inward hammer fist or whatever floats your boat here, just wondering your guys' opinions on where this left check hand should be positioned. again thanks for all your input, very fast input...

Yes and controlling his depth of penetraition (meaning how far you let him step forward and or turn his upper body into you) can be crucial. The further in he steps and turns his upper body the more power you have to deal with. Think of it like when a quarter back gets his arm bumped right before he releases the ball. His power stroke is diminished, the ball doesnt go as far and falls into enemy hands. I am thinking you are allowing too much power to come your way. Find the path of least resistance, meaning cut his circle in half. Step in before your opponent steps all the way in or, and I say or, gets to the end of his power stroke by completing the rotation of his upper body into you. This should alleviate the force of the round punch thereby cancelling the oppenents ability to move your hands in any direction.

[bushidomartialarts]

I learned this technique with 2 knife hand blocks to the punching arm. One thing to keep in mind is to begin your defense before the punch gets past the half way point. Considering I'm moving in and not back on this technique, I don't want to rely on just one hand to block the punch.


I'm with MJS on this one. I learned (and teach) two chops to the arm...one at bicep and one at forearm. I figure you're in the neighborhood, why not go for some limb destruction?

[KrayONE]

I'm with MJS on this one. I learned (and teach) two chops to the arm...one at bicep and one at forearm. I figure you're in the neighborhood, why not go for some limb destruction?

Yeah thats how instructors at my studio teach five swords, but if i am not mistaken Mr. Parker taught five swords with an inward block only and left hand checking. Mr. Wedlake on this clip mentions that using two chops to the arm is a different technique (defying the storm) and deviates from some specific principles and concepts when its changed to two strikes or blocks to the arm. For example Mr. Wedlake adds that using the left hand as a block or strike to the wrist brings your next strike out of the line of sight, and travels more, and economy of motion suffers. Again more of your thoughts!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9P1reISfk1A

[Blindside]

Yeah thats how instructors at my studio teach five swords, but if i am not mistaken Mr. Parker taught five swords with an inward block only and left hand checking. Mr. Wedlake on this clip mentions that using two chops to the arm is a different technique (defying the storm) and deviates from some specific principles and concepts when its changed to two strikes or blocks to the arm. For example Mr. Wedlake adds that using the left hand as a block or strike to the wrist brings your next strike out of the line of sight, and travels more, and economy of motion suffers. Again more of your thoughts!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9P1reISfk1A

If my back hand is going to be the primary on the defense, my front hand won't be going after a target on the arm. In this case, I'd just use a left extended outward and at the same time try to thrust a forearm into the neck going for a brachial stun.

Lamont

[KrayONE]

If my back hand is going to be the primary on the defense, my front hand won't be going after a target on the arm. In this case, I'd just use a left extended outward and at the same time try to thrust a forearm into the neck going for a brachial stun.

Lamont

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.

[Blindside]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.

Who's ideal phase? I've seen Five Swords taught very similar to what I describe (handsword to the neck instead of my use of the forearm), and I think its become a standard with the AKKI.

Lamont

[michaeledward]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.

There are several techniques in the system, in which the ideal phase teaches us to use a Left Extended Outward Block against an incoming right roundhouse. It is a perfectly legitimate, and probably a necessary, self defense move.

You are correct that it is not the self-defense move we learn in Five Swords, but don't rule it out.

[Ray]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse. I'm more looking for ideal phase thoughts, lets stay on topic.In General, since I'm a lefty I would much rather block with my right and strike simultaneously with my left; But 5 swords doesn't teach us that, it teaches us a two-handed simultaneous blocks (if that's the way your teacher teaches it).

Else it teaches left block with a right strike to the head of the humerous, or one of various alternatives.

[KenG]

i learned it with two chop blocks one to the forearm one to the bicep but as with any technique that is just the way we are taught to learn it.. there is countless ways to change it due to different situations...

[Touch Of Death]

I'm talking about the opponents roundhouse punch knocking my own check hand into my face, if i somehow do NOT block with my initial inward block/ inward hammer fist or whatever floats your boat here, just wondering your guys' opinions on where this left check hand should be positioned. again thanks for all your input, very fast input...Were that the case you started to far away.
sean

[KrayONE]

Were that the case you started to far away.
sean

so if u step inside the eye of the storm your saying the punch should go behind my head? i thought that would only apply to storm attacks, to avoid the whipping of the club.

[Touch Of Death]

so if u step inside the eye of the storm your saying the punch should go behind my head? i thought that would only apply to storm attacks, to avoid the whipping of the club.No, this one too.
Sean

[KrayONE]

There are several techniques in the system, in which the ideal phase teaches us to use a Left Extended Outward Block against an incoming right roundhouse. It is a perfectly legitimate, and probably a necessary, self defense move.

You are correct that it is not the self-defense move we learn in Five Swords, but don't rule it out.

I agree, but not being left handed i dont feel comfortable using my left to defend someones right roundhouse. on the other hand im more comfortable using a left inward for a straight punch, i wouldnt of said that earlier in my training though :)

[KrayONE]

No, this one too.
Sean

ok i might be confusing myself, im thinking more along the lines of a hooking roundhouse punch, not a haymaker punch haha.

[Blindside]

ok i might be confusing myself, im thinking more along the lines of a hooking roundhouse punch, not a haymaker punch haha.

While I'm not sure what you mean by a "hooking roundhouse," if the punch has any sort of a decent hook, and you are trying to do an ideal phase Five Swords, you've "chosen" the wrong technique. His fist will hit your head about the same time, your right hand will hit his arm, the arm configuration is all wrong for an inward block.

Lamont

[MJS]

Most people are not left handed, and imho i would not use any block with my left for an opponents right roundhouse.

Why not? What is your block of choice then?

[MJS]

so if u step inside the eye of the storm your saying the punch should go behind my head? i thought that would only apply to storm attacks, to avoid the whipping of the club.

Personally, if I have the chance to move in I'm going to take it. If I can jam the punch I'm going to take advantage of that. Also, keep in mind, that its better to move in asap, so you can execute your defense before the punch gets too far. In other words, lets assume its one of those wide haymakers. Before that punch gets half way, the defender should be doing something.


ok i might be confusing myself, im thinking more along the lines of a hooking roundhouse punch, not a haymaker punch haha.

Hmm...if its that tight of a hook, you'd be better off a) getting off line, b) bob/weave or c) cover the side of your head with your arm and take the hit.

[KrayONE]

Why not? What is your block of choice then?

if it were a right hooking roundhouse id try and gauge distance, step back while simultaneously executing a right inward at or below the forearm. now i have not learned a technique yet utilizing a left outward extended, so if u read carefully i said that a left inward used to be very uncomfortable for me, and a left outward extended for me i have no confidence in using it, but if im in between and forced to think of something quickly that is most likely the block ill use lol.

i read someone saying that a roundhouse punch is not suitable for an inward block, so why than Mr. Parker instill Sword of Destruction to go from a right outward extended to a "possible" right inward block for a possible right roundhouse?

[KrayONE]

While I'm not sure what you mean by a "hooking roundhouse," if the punch has any sort of a decent hook, and you are trying to do an ideal phase Five Swords, you've "chosen" the wrong technique. His fist will hit your head about the same time, your right hand will hit his arm, the arm configuration is all wrong for an inward block.

Lamont

naw, i have never chosen to do an ideal phase five swords for a hooking roundhouse.

[MJS]

if it were a right hooking roundhouse id try and gauge distance, step back while simultaneously executing a right inward at or below the forearm. 1)now i have not learned a technique yet utilizing a left outward extended, so if u read carefully i said that a left inward used to be very uncomfortable for me, and a left outward extended for me i have no confidence in using it, but if im in between and forced to think of something quickly that is most likely the block ill use lol.

1) What about this tech? Look at #2.

Calming The Storm: Right Roundhouse Club

1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right roundhouse club swing.

2. Step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right neutral bow as you simultaneously execute a left extended outward block to the inside of your attacker's forearm and execute a right vertical punch to your attacker's head.

3. Execute a right palm strike to your attacker's right shoulder and frictionally slide down your attacker's arm, checking it. As you finish the slide, ending at your attacker's forearm, shift into a right forward bow facing 12 o'clock as you take advantage of torque and execute a left vertical punch to your attacker's solar plexus.

4. Shift back into a right neutral bow as you execute a right backfist to your attacker's right ribs.

5. Cross out towards 7:30 taking the weapon with you.




i read someone saying that a roundhouse punch is not suitable for an inward block, so why than Mr. Parker instill Sword of Destruction to go from a right outward extended to a "possible" right inward block for a possible right roundhouse?

Not sure who said that, but I don't believe it was I. Actually, now that I think about it, Arcing Blades, a Tracy tech. is off of a right roundhouse punch. The block for the punch...a right inward block. :)

[KrayONE]

1) What about this tech? Look at #2.

Calming The Storm: Right Roundhouse Club

1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right roundhouse club swing.

2. Step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right neutral bow as you simultaneously execute a left extended outward block to the inside of your attacker's forearm and execute a right vertical punch to your attacker's head.

3. Execute a right palm strike to your attacker's right shoulder and frictionally slide down your attacker's arm, checking it. As you finish the slide, ending at your attacker's forearm, shift into a right forward bow facing 12 o'clock as you take advantage of torque and execute a left vertical punch to your attacker's solar plexus.

4. Shift back into a right neutral bow as you execute a right backfist to your attacker's right ribs.

5. Cross out towards 7:30 taking the weapon with you.





Not sure who said that, but I don't believe it was I. Actually, now that I think about it, Arcing Blades, a Tracy tech. is off of a right roundhouse punch. The block for the punch...a right inward block. :)


aww man sorry, ive learned that! i had a brain fart err something... grrr. and i was practicing calming the storm last night at work LOL. I think its my disdain for that technique causing me to leave it out haha. I always found that technique so awkward, going from the left outward extended to the full left verticle punch to the solar plexus, but right side no problem!!! definately going to work on calming the storm!

[michaeledward]

KrayOne ...

You will learn other techniques that also use that left extended outward against a right round house.

If the right outward in Sword of Destruction is workable for you, then I am certain with time and practice, you will find the left outward workable for you as well.

[Touch Of Death]

if it were a right hooking roundhouse id try and gauge distance, step back while simultaneously executing a right inward at or below the forearm. now i have not learned a technique yet utilizing a left outward extended, so if u read carefully i said that a left inward used to be very uncomfortable for me, and a left outward extended for me i have no confidence in using it, but if im in between and forced to think of something quickly that is most likely the block ill use lol.

i read someone saying that a roundhouse punch is not suitable for an inward block, so why than Mr. Parker instill Sword of Destruction to go from a right outward extended to a "possible" right inward block for a possible right roundhouse?You keep talking like you are blocking this strike full force. Try jumping in the center without extending your arms. Just cover your head with your left (like in Muay Thai) and as soon as you feel a bump with the right roll out of the inward position into an outward. Just this small little motion should take his head off; if not, hit him with the left.
Sean

[Jeff Harvey]

I was always taught that the first move is two inward blocks utilizing the hand sword. The targets for the strikes (again as I was shown) should be the bicep and the the forearm. But apparently my training has been somewhat different from a lot of other's, because every time I post a response, someone flames me about it.

[nlkenpo]

I was always taught that the first move is two inward blocks utilizing the hand sword. The targets for the strikes (again as I was shown) should be the bicep and the the forearm. But apparently my training has been somewhat different from a lot of other's, because every time I post a response, someone flames me about it.

I won't flame you :enfo: BUT....

If you look at the angle your body will be in by the time of the block, your left hand couldn't effectively execute an inward block to the forearm.

If you execute inward blocks with the right and left hand simultaniously, they would hit exectly the same spot, now wouldn't they?

If from that position your left hand would have to go towards the forearm, the motion would automatically be outward. If I would have to name the movement involved, it would be an "diagonal outward downward hammerfist" while the method of execution would be "whipping". The right hand would execute a hammering inward block. BTW: I'd choose for a left outward handsword instead of the hammer, but I guess that's personal preference.

Another point is the rotation of the body. While stepping forward into the first move, my body rotates counter clockwise. This rotation supports any right inward arm-basic (in this case a hammering block), but takes away power from a left inward arm-basic. It does support any left outward basic, which would be another reason for using forementioned outward move instead of any attempt to a left inward block.

Just my observation...

Marcel

[Dstew]

I have read all the responses to Mr. KrayOne's question about Five Swords. There are many good and practical answers. However if you read what Mr. Parker wrote in his manual for the ideal phase for this technique you will find that he does not say to execute an inward block to the right roundhouse punch. He does say to execute a right inward STRIKE to opponents right punch with your left hand checking. Common sense tells you that the left check should attempt to contact your opponents left arm somewhere between the wrist and elbow with the strike contacting opponents right bicep. And hopefully your timing will allow to to interrupt his attack before it reaches the point of power. In essence you are interrupting your opponent at the beginning or at least in the middle of his sentence.That is why we are stepping into the attack towards 11:00. The same principle applied in Calming the Storm. Mr. Parker did not stipulate what the strike was. So I think either the handsword strike or hammerfist to opponents right punch would be acceptable to Mr. Parker. Again this is just the ideal phase when learning the technique. Use whatever strike you do most effectively. You can call the strike a block if you like, because as stated by someone earlier blocks can be strikes and strikes can be blocks. I remember Mr. Parker saying that whatever works is right.
You have to find the way that works best for you when applying Mr. Parker's teachings.
However as I said the Ideal Phase is to execute an inward strike to opponents left roundhouse punch with the left hand checking. When in your school execute according to your instructors foundational teaching. When in a technique line or in real combat it's your choice ! Mr. Parker's manual is a guideline for you to develope your own style.

[Dstew]

Correction :

In my last post I mistakingly said that Mr. Parker did not specify what the first strike is in Five Swords. The name tells it all. The first strike is a handsword strike. With three more handsword strikes in the lower belt version of the technique and the fifth handsword strike in the extension.
Thus you have " Five Swords " !

[hongkongfooey]

I've learned Five Swords two different ways. The first way was with two shuto blocks, the second was with a hammering strike to the attacker's forearm. I like the second version better. The double hand sword version is lacking in power on the first shot to the neck because of the short travel from the bicep.

[hongkongfooey]

Correction :

In my last post I mistakenly said that Mr. Parker did not specify what the first strike is in Five Swords. The name tells it all. The first strike is a hand sword strike. With three more hand sword strikes in the lower belt version of the technique and the fifth hand sword strike in the extension.
Thus you have " Five Swords " !


You don't need the extension to get five swords. Just change the heel palm/ horizontal thrust to a hand sword to the bridge of the nose, and change the uppercut punch to a hand sword to the ribs (think of parting wings). Just change the weapons. :asian:

[Doc]

The technique "Five Swords" has undergone significant changes and revisions over time, depending upon era, lineage, and instructor preferences.

Originally called the "do this, and then later the "Five Count" before techniques were given metaphorical names, it consisted of all open handed "knife-hand" applications, that terminated with a "spear-hand" (Japanese influenced) to the solar plexus, thus using "5 swords."

Later, revised under the Chinese Kenpo influence, the spear-hand became a punch. (Historical Note: some mistakenly call it an "upper-cut" but Mr. Parker termed it an "Inverted Horizontal.") but the name remained unchanged.

Later versions added additional movements after the strike to the body that brought the attacker downward, with a finishing hand-sword to the back of the neck, and it became "Seven Swords."

Than the open handed blocks were replaced with closed hands, the finger thrust to the eyes became a heel-palm, but was still counted as an open handed move so it once again was back to "Five Swords."

Than the "extension" came along (so to speak) and it became "Seven Swords" for some, and "Five Swords plus extension" for others, depending upon lineage. The base concept today remains unchanged for many, and regardless of the number of "swords" actually used, the technique remains a staple of the Ed Parker influenced arts as "Five Swords."

Everything always depends upon who taught you, when they taught you, and what they wanted to teach you.

[supermommaloha]

Hi, I am sitting here with Grandmaster Frank Trejo, reading some of the questions on this web site forum to pass time and he said to tell you that it's better for them to hit your "check" first, than hit your face first....hope this helps!

[kenpo3631]

The technique "Five Swords" has undergone significant changes and revisions over time, depending upon era, lineage, and instructor preferences.

Originally called the "do this, and then later the "Five Count" before techniques were given metaphorical names, it consisted of all open handed "knife-hand" applications, that terminated with a "spear-hand" (Japanese influenced) to the solar plexus, thus using "5 swords."

Later, revised under the Chinese Kenpo influence, the spear-hand became a punch. (Historical Note: some mistakenly call it an "upper-cut" but Mr. Parker termed it an "Inverted Horizontal.") but the name remained unchanged.

Later versions added additional movements after the strike to the body that brought the attacker downward, with a finishing hand-sword to the back of the neck, and it became "Seven Swords."

Than the open handed blocks were replaced with closed hands, the finger thrust to the eyes became a heel-palm, but was still counted as an open handed move so it once again was back to "Five Swords."

Than the "extension" came along (so to speak) and it became "Seven Swords" for some, and "Five Swords plus extension" for others, depending upon lineage. The base concept today remains unchanged for many, and regardless of the number of "swords" actually used, the technique remains a staple of the Ed Parker influenced arts as "Five Swords."

Everything always depends upon who taught you, when they taught you, and what they wanted to teach you.

Thanks again Doc. Your statement just re-affirms what Mr. Wedlake told me about the technique. I love it when I hear other students of Mr. Parker telling the same stuff. I just makes my belief that much more concrete. :asian:

[Doc]

Hi, I am sitting here with Grandmaster Frank Trejo, reading some of the questions on this web site forum to pass time and he said to tell you that it's better for them to hit your "check" first, than hit your face first....hope this helps!

Tell Frank I said, he's still master of the obvious.

[Touch Of Death]

Hi, I am sitting here with Grandmaster Frank Trejo, reading some of the questions on this web site forum to pass time and he said to tell you that it's better for them to hit your "check" first, than hit your face first....hope this helps!Pollynesian parralysis. Mr Parker uses to say.
Sean

[Kenpo1981]

I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys![/quote]

As soon as you bend your arm beyond 90 degrees, I believe the bicep is engaged and it curls your arm, therefore an opponent could trap your arm against your body more easily. Greater than the 90 degrees and the triceps are engaged, which extends your arm and would allow you to resist a trap more effectively.

I think some of that would be offset if the person being trapped was a stronger person in comparison to the person trapping. How aware one is that the trap is coming would make a difference as well perhaps.

[Touch Of Death]

I thought everything at a 45 is stronger so if u leave it close to u its weak, please correct me if im wrong. Thanks Guys!

As soon as you bend your arm beyond 90 degrees, I believe the bicep is engaged and it curls your arm, therefore an opponent could trap your arm against your body more easily. Greater than the 90 degrees and the triceps are engaged, which extends your arm and would allow you to resist a trap more effectively.

I think some of that would be offset if the person being trapped was a stronger person in comparison to the person trapping. How aware one is that the trap is coming would make a difference as well perhaps.[/quote]The force of his body comming in will just bounce off structuraly supported by your body bent all the way, giving you enough space to strike with a full range of motion through the target.
Sean