http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHwRusYVJHI

I could be missing something but it looked like a simple shuto to the side of the neck. Nothing magic about knocking someone down with that, especially if they've already been mentally prepped to fall down.

I like how he lifts his foot up and moves it out of the way so he can fall down after getting "knocked out"

I like how he lifts his foot up and moves it out of the way so he can fall down after getting "knocked out"
The slap out ukemi is nice too... :rolleyes:

I could be missing something but it looked like a simple shuto to the side of the neck. Nothing magic about knocking someone down with that, especially if they've already been mentally prepped to fall down.

I don't believe he was mentally prepped at all. I believe this was a simple demonstration of Kyusho.

As for the Ukemi, I don't know. It somewhat looks like it, but doesn't look like he easily got back up again. Looking at other knock out footage, its about the same reaction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVAL24D04t0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85NHVbJ0t7U

I wonder how old that clip is
interseting to see the two togeather on the floor

I don't believe he was mentally prepped at all. I believe this was a simple demonstration of Kyusho.


That it was, a standard demo of Kyusho, but not a physical KO.


As for the Ukemi, I don't know. It somewhat looks like it, but doesn't look like he easily got back up again. Looking at other knock out footage, its about the same reaction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVAL24D04t0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85NHVbJ0t7U



And they do the same thing. When people get KOed they do not step out of the way or fall cleanly like that. Watch how boxers and MMA fighters fall when they get KOed, the knees buckle out and the go straight down, not gracefully lie down like these guys.

It's all in there head.

This isn't a boxing match.

and when the people fall in these demos it is far from graceful. There just not getting throttled and thrown to the ground. It certainly wasn't like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7MGgxbhho

I do not believe Mr.Dillman was expecting this.

This isn't a boxing match.


That it is not, however the physical reaction to being Knocked out would remain the same, regardless of the cause.

I like how he lifts his foot up and moves it out of the way so he can fall down after getting "knocked out"

Maybe this needs to go to The Great Debate in order to get to the bottom of Oyata's credentials? That would be an interesting thread for all parties involved.

This isn't a boxing match.

and when the people fall in these demos it is far from graceful. There just not getting throttled and thrown to the ground. It certainly wasn't like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7MGgxbhho

I do not believe Mr.Dillman was expecting this.

I totally agree, in the emergency room we often see patients on a daily basis, who have passed out, with huge lumps on their heads, and black eyes, broken noses. People generally fall straight back or straight forward when they pass out, where ever their weight has shifted.
It as a common practice to twist the patients nipple (this is the stuff in the trauma room you don’t see.) of patients to see if they are aware of any stimulus or to see if and suspected faker, is faking unconsciousness.
Another test is to hold the patients hand directly above their face and drop it. An unconscious person, the hand falls right on there nose. A patient faking unconsciousness,
will let the hand fall to the side of their face, or on their chest or side.
I have long been suspicious of Dillman.

ifted.
It as a common practice to twist the patients nipple (this is the stuff in the trauma room you don’t see.) of patients to see if they are aware of any stimulus or to see if and suspected faker, is faking unconsciousness.


You came very close to owing me a new keyboard with that :p

You came very close to owing me a new keyboard with that :p

Then its a good thing he didn't tell you about the catheter... ;)

Then its a good thing he didn't tell you about the catheter... ;)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Damn, I just repped you for something else... Carol, you're going to have to cut down on reppable one-liners and such... I can't keep up with 'em!

I wonder how old that clip is
interseting to see the two togeather on the floor

That must have been one of the 6 or so seminars George attended




Cheers
Sam:asian:

Nice video!!!! I was there. It was at Mr. Oyata's annual seminar in Kansas City area and Dillman had been there all day taking notes and getting information on his recorder...but he hadn't done any physical training at all. Not a single drop of sweat.

So....several of us conspired and suggested to Master Oyata that he use "Georgie" for his uke at the kyusho demo. He agreed, not knowing what we were up to.

The strike to Dillman's neck was made with the tips of the first two fingers...nice shot.

It just warms my cockels to see this again. Thanks!

:angel:

Maybe this needs to go to The Great Debate in order to get to the bottom of Oyata's credentials? That would be an interesting thread for all parties involved.

From what I've heard, Oyata Sensei is a REAL kyusho master. People I respect greatly have been totally impressed with his knowledge. I am curious as to his background though. It'd be nice to see where all that comes from...

Oyata is a "real" Kyusho master, and I have met people who have done some training in the Okinawian arts in country.

Anyway, "real" Kyusho is not rocket science or magic tricks; it's simple effects of hitting people in vital areas. If you smash someone on the side of their neck or base of the skull and cause the brain to slosh around, you'll likely get a knock out, or some stars and a black out.

People just make this out to be more then it is, that's all.

My take, anyhow...

C.

Oyata is a "real" Kyusho master, and I have met people who have done some training in the Okinawian arts in country.

Anyway, "real" Kyusho is not rocket science or magic tricks; it's simple effects of hitting people in vital areas. If you smash someone on the side of their neck or base of the skull and cause the brain to slosh around, you'll likely get a knock out, or some stars and a black out.

People just make this out to be more then it is, that's all.

My take, anyhow...

C.

Hey Paul you are definately right on here. Oyata is the real deal with Kyusho but the truth of the matter is that this is not rocket science and or magic but really rather simple stuff just like you pointed out. One even has to ask if it is good to knock these people out so often? Does it predispose them to being knocked out in a real confrontation? Is it potentially causing them to maybe have a concussion? If so then maybe these individuals should rethink what they are doing at seminars.

Bottom line I can teach someone to knock someone else out in less than twenty seconds if the other person just stands there. (nothing secret and really nothing special) Now teach someone how to do that against a resisting attacker and they are successful, well that is special! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

I do not believe Mr.Dillman was expecting this.

You honestly believe he had no idea what was coming? He was asked to stand there while Oyata Sensei demonstrated technique but Dillman somehow believed he wasn't actually involved in what was about to happen?

I'm not questioning anyone's ability or guilabilty here and there's no need to be defensive.

WOW,
I have seen people KO in the dojo. and they do not get back up that fast. legs go out and body falls with no base.
My 2 cents.

Kosho

You honestly believe he had no idea what was coming? He was asked to stand there while Oyata Sensei demonstrated technique but Dillman somehow believed he wasn't actually involved in what was about to happen?

I'm not questioning anyone's ability or guilabilty here and there's no need to be defensive.

No just from his reaction I didn't think he knew he was going to get knocked out. Sure have a technique done, but with that kind speed and accuracy? I don't think he expected that. Its certainly takes a good amount of training (which is an understatement) to do what was done on that video. It was static technique, not done in action, but that doesn't mean it wasn't effective, the technique was taken out of context to show the end result i.e: I hit here, he goes down. I don't really think he went down gracefully, but I'd rather spend more time training then arguing on the internet.

No just from his reaction I didn't think he knew he was going to get knocked out. Sure have a technique done, but with that kind speed and accuracy? I don't think he expected that. Its certainly takes a good amount of training (which is an understatement) to do what was done on that video. It was static technique, not done in action, but that doesn't mean it wasn't effective, the technique was taken out of context to show the end result i.e: I hit here, he goes down. I don't really think he went down gracefully, but I'd rather spend more time training then arguing on the internet.

If I'm at a shime waza seminar and the instructor asks me to come up front, I'm probably not going to be surprised when he chokes me out, regardless of his speed and accuracy.
We obviously see this differently. Let's move on.

Hey Paul you are definately right on here. Oyata is the real deal with Kyusho but the truth of the matter is that this is not rocket science and or magic but really rather simple stuff just like you pointed out. One even has to ask if it is good to knock these people out so often? Does it predispose them to being knocked out in a real confrontation? Is it potentially causing them to maybe have a concussion? If so then maybe these individuals should rethink what they are doing at seminars.

Bottom line I can teach someone to knock someone else out in less than twenty seconds if the other person just stands there. (nothing secret and really nothing special) Now teach someone how to do that against a resisting attacker and they are successful, well that is special! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

Thankyou!! I "believe" in pressure points. I know what it feels like to have them hit and ti hit people on them. I don't know what it feels like to do either of these if the other doesn't want it to happen. Just sayin'

Thankyou!! I "believe" in pressure points. I know what it feels like to have them hit and ti hit people on them. I don't know what it feels like to do either of these if the other doesn't want it to happen. Just sayin'


I to believe in pressure points as well. However they are in essence pretty simple to learn and effect particularly on someone just standing there. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

What year was this?

From what I am told by a few of my seniors and what the video looks like I'd say circa early 1980s. The footage definatly looks that old and from what I've seen of footage and photos of that time thats what Dillman and Mr. Oyata would have looked like.

Sorry I am 3 months late on this one...

In our kyusho training we recognize a few different levels of KO. Only the 3rd level is unconciousness. At the first level you are dazed and may fall down. This appears to be where Dillman is at in this clip. At level 2 there is dizziness and physical disassociation, almost always falling down. Level 3 out.

And I do believe that getting KO'd this ways does make one more susceptible to getting KOd this way. I don't know why, but I've seen it to be true in a few people.

The pressure point knock outs also tend to work far better on the students of the Kyusho instructor. Funny that!!

Cheers
Sam:asian:

It as a common practice to twist the patients nipple (this is the stuff in the trauma room you don’t see.) of patients to see if they are aware of any stimulus or to see if and suspected faker, is faking unconsciousness.

Why not the standard sternum knuckle rub to check responsiveness? Do you find that the nipple is more effective, if not more appropriate? :rolleyes:

The pressure point knock outs also tend to work far better on the students of the Kyusho instructor. Funny that!!

Cheers
Sam:asian:

Yeah, it's really similar to how wing chun mostly seems to work against wing chun students.

Bottom line I can teach someone to knock someone else out in less than twenty seconds if the other person just stands there. (nothing secret and really nothing special) Now teach someone how to do that against a resisting attacker and they are successful, well that is special! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

Yep. It's called "Boxing"

Yeah, it's really similar to how wing chun mostly seems to work against wing chun students.
Oh, don't forget how Aikido works best against Aikido students, and kenpo works best against kenpo students. It's all a conspiracy, dontchknow?

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Oh, don't forget how Aikido works best against Aikido students, and kenpo works best against kenpo students. It's all a conspiracy, dontchknow?

Well actually Aikido does work better on Aikido students. I guarentee if it was used in the street the attacker wouldn't fly through the air as they do in class. Read a book called 'Angry White Pyjamas'.It's a true account of a guy's experiences with the riot police course at the Yoshinkan Aikido dojo in Japan. Some 5th dans get in a fight and punch on and no aikido is used at all, they just punch on. You will definitely find that PP ko's are definitely more effective on the pp students than outsiders.


Cheers
Sam:asian:

Ummmmm hey, I have a bridge for sale…cheap!



Aaron “anatomy is best not learned form a cheerio box” Fields