I learned my first Kata last night!

[MantisStyle21]

Forgive me I mispell this but, I learned my first bo kata "Shu Shi No Kun". I am so stoked! I just went outside and did it about 5 or 6 times. Any Kata I learn will be particularly exciting for me, because noone can really figure out how to do it left-handed after them all doing it right-handed for so long.

Sadly I'm left handed =[ So it took me about 10 minutes but I finally figured out the movements and footwork for the Kata. I then did it for the rest of class cause I had to do it right-handed. I wanted to repeatedly do it cause I felt something was missing. So I did it for the 45min and I'm excited to say I've got it to the point where I can do it without having to stop! So yay! Just had to let everyone know =]

Take Care!

[terryl965]

That is great keep up the good work

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

Great to hear! Keep training!

[exile]

Forgive me I mispell this but, I learned my first bo kata "Shu Shi No Kun". I am so stoked! I just went outside and did it about 5 or 6 times. Any Kata I learn will be particularly exciting for me, because noone can really figure out how to do it left-handed after them all doing it right-handed for so long.

Sadly I'm left handed =[ So it took me about 10 minutes but I finally figured out the movements and footwork for the Kata. I then did it for the rest of class cause I had to do it right-handed.I wanted to repeatedly do it cause I felt something was missing. So I did it for the 45min and I'm excited to say I've got it to the point where I can do it without having to stop! So yay! Just had to let everyone know =]

Take Care!

Hi MS—can you clarify something for me? My exposure to formal MA patterns is KMA hyungs and Japanese karate kata, and it's not clear to me, from my own work with these forms, what a `left-handed' version would be. A lot of the forms are more or less symmetrical, and even where there is asymmetry, it's not clear that a lefthander would have any particular difficulty executing them any differently from a righthander; there's no sense in which you would be expected to `transliterate' any of them into a mirror-image form.

For example, in the Rohai kata I do, there are three crane stances in which the left arm is in a high block over the head, the right hand is low with the palm parallel to the floor, the right knee raised in the typical crane posture with the upper leg perfectly parallel to the floor, facing to the left of the embusen line, while the upper body is faces the embusen line directly. The first two times, the follow up-moves are a knifehand block, at a 45º angle to the embusen line, a lefthand lunge punch, righthand reverse punch and another lefthand lunge punch—to the right side in the first case and the left side in the second. There's symmetry in the way the two moves are mirrored on the right and left side of the embusen line at the same 45º angle, but there's an asymmetry too: the crane stance in all three cases is a balance on the left leg, with the left arm high, and the raised knee (which I suspect would translate in a realistic bunkai to something like a knee kick to the assailant's abdomen) always the rightside leg. I cannot imagine a lefthander having to invert the kata so the asymmetries become mirror-imaged. I see you do Shaolin KF—is this a feature of how kata are structured in your system? Please forgive my ignorance about CMA hsings; I'd appreciate any light you could shed on this lefthand/righthand business...

[Drac]

Congrats..I remember the thrill of learning my first kata, I felt I was really training..Best of luck to you..

[MantisStyle21]

Hi MS—can you clarify something for me? My exposure to formal MA patterns is KMA hyungs and Japanese karate kata, and it's not clear to me, from my own work with these forms, what a `left-handed' version would be. A lot of the forms are more or less symmetrical, and even where there is asymmetry, it's not clear that a lefthander would have any particular difficulty executing them any differently from a righthander; there's no sense in which you would be expected to `transliterate' any of them into a mirror-image form.

For example, in the Rohai kata I do, there are three crane stances in which the left arm is in a high block over the head, the right hand is low with the palm parallel to the floor, the right knee raised in the typical crane posture with the upper leg perfectly parallel to the floor, facing to the left of the embusen line, while the upper body is faces the embusen line directly. The first two times, the follow up-moves are a knifehand block, at a 45º angle to the embusen line, a lefthand lunge punch, righthand reverse punch and another lefthand lunge punch—to the right side in the first case and the left side in the second. There's symmetry in the way the two moves are mirrored on the right and left side of the embusen line at the same 45º angle, but there's an asymmetry too: the crane stance in all three cases is a balance on the left leg, with the left arm high, and the raised knee (which I suspect would translate in a realistic bunkai to something like a knee kick to the assailant's abdomen) always the rightside leg. I cannot imagine a lefthander having to invert the kata so the asymmetries become mirror-imaged. I see you do Shaolin KF—is this a feature of how kata are structured in your system? Please forgive my ignorance about CMA hsings; I'd appreciate any light you could shed on this lefthand/righthand business...

When I said "left handed" I meant that you were leading with the left instead of the right ^_^, I assume it wouldnt be terribly hard for anyone to teach it to me left handed, but I would jsut rather do it right handed than cause any confusion cause they switched it to their opposite hand lol.

[newGuy12]

Hello MantisStyle21!

Is this the your kata?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MHax1lCRRA

If so, I perceive a sense of "handedness" in this kata. That is, it is not as symmetric as some other kata that I have been able to see.

Also, do you own your own bo? If so, is it the "real" kind, the ones that are strong and heavy? If I ever learn the bo, I will get my own staff, and it will be the heavy kind, the real kind!



Regards,

Robert

[exile]

When I said "left handed" I meant that you were leading with the left instead of the right ^_^, I assume it wouldnt be terribly hard for anyone to teach it to me left handed, but I would jsut rather do it right handed than cause any confusion cause they switched it to their opposite hand lol.

OK, thanks for the explanation, MS, and best of luck with your ongoing training.


Hello MantisStyle21!

Is this the your kata?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MHax1lCRRA

If so, I perceive a sense of "handedness" in this kata. That is, it is not as symmetric as some other kata that I have been able to see.


It's true, they tend to be symmetric at the outset, but the more difficult ones get some of their difficulty from that very fact of asymmetry. Learning an asymmetric kata as your first one is kind of being tossed into the pool at the deep end, eh?

[JWLuiza]

I do the Sho version, the video is the Dai... which one do you do?

[MantisStyle21]

Hello MantisStyle21!

Is this the your kata?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MHax1lCRRA

If so, I perceive a sense of "handedness" in this kata. That is, it is not as symmetric as some other kata that I have been able to see.

Also, do you own your own bo? If so, is it the "real" kind, the ones that are strong and heavy? If I ever learn the bo, I will get my own staff, and it will be the heavy kind, the real kind!



Regards,

Robert

That isn't the one I've learned. Yes, I do own my own Bo, I own a White Wax Wood Bo. Also, I own an Iron bo its 8lbs >.> lol I'm still not used to it


I do the Sho version, the video is the Dai... which one do you do?

I do Sho as well.

[Andrew Green]

Bo Kata are not symetrical and tend to favour a right handed grip pretty heavily. Some people compensate by doing the kata both ways though.

Anyways, here is the form, with 3 variations from different styles: http://kata-reference.com/index.php?cat=1&style=7&kata=75

[Andrew Green]

Also, do you own your own bo? If so, is it the "real" kind, the ones that are strong and heavy? If I ever learn the bo, I will get my own staff, and it will be the heavy kind, the real kind!


Heavy is not always better, just depends on how you fight. What matters is that it doesn't break on impact, but a rattan bo can be a very good weapon, and is light. It does however require a different style of fighting them a log.

[searcher]

Just for clarification, the kata on the kata-reference sight that is labeled Yamanni-ryu version is not Shushi no kon. It is actually Shuji no kon, a different kata.

As for bo, I agree with AG on heavier not always being better. I have several bo of varying size and weight. My favorite is a purple heart wood bo and it is actually not as heavy as it would be thought to be. It is, however, extremely durable.

[Karatedrifter7]

Congrats. Are you still doing Northern Mantis too?

[tshadowchaser]

congrats on learning your first form

[MantisStyle21]

Congrats. Are you still doing Northern Mantis too?


Aye, I'm loving every second of it!

[Kacey]

Congratulations on learning your first kata - and thanks for the explanation of handedness; I was wondering that too, since the TKD forms I know are all preset, and, as exile said, more or less symmetrical... although they get less and less symmetrical as you go up.

[CuongNhuka]

If so, is it the "real" kind, the ones that are strong and heavy? If I ever learn the bo, I will get my own staff, and it will be the heavy kind, the real kind!

Are you talking, like, using oak only? Or do you mean not one of those aluminum things?

[newGuy12]

Are you talking, like, using oak only? Or do you mean not one of those aluminum things?

I've never learned to use a bo staff (or any other weapons). I remember a Kenpo Teacher telling me one time, though, that some people use a "tapered" bo for forms in competition, because they can move them faster. He told me that these tapered bos are not as strong as the "real" ones.

If I were to be taught the bo, I would prefer to always practice with a "real" one -- that is, one that would not break. You see, I would like to be able to pick up any staff and use it.

I believe that if one were to practice with a heavier bo, then one could use a lighter one easily. However, if someone practices with a light bo, perhaps they would be at a loss to use the heavier one. This adds nothing to the thread, of course, because I know nothing about the staff. I appreciate the comments regarding which bo to use (a "log"! --> hahahaha! that was a good one! --> I can imagine someone trying to use a telephone pole!)

[CuongNhuka]

Well, heres the skinny. Yes people use tapered bos. No, they don't go any faster. The end that is tapered will go faster, the other slower. Resulting in the same speed. Some styles use bo's that are supposed to be tapered (like Wing Chun). They may not be able to withstand as much contact at the tapered end, but since it moves faster it is used more as a 'whipping' weapon.

There are really no bo's that will break too easily. However, oak and other heavier woods will last longer. Here's the trade off, you don't know when it will break. With lighter woods (like rattan and wax wood) the ends will start to expand when it is close to it's breaking time. Heavier woods wont. My Sensei told me that when he was doing Aikido they would use red oak in there boken. One of them had the end splinter while doing cutting drills.

There are actually styles that are based off using a really heavy bo, so you get stronger for the lighter ones. By the way, by 'really heavy bo' I mean a 6 foot iron bar. It's called tetsubo jutsu.

[searcher]

I've never learned to use a bo staff (or any other weapons). I remember a Kenpo Teacher telling me one time, though, that some people use a "tapered" bo for forms in competition, because they can move them faster. He told me that these tapered bos are not as strong as the "real" ones.

If I were to be taught the bo, I would prefer to always practice with a "real" one -- that is, one that would not break. You see, I would like to be able to pick up any staff and use it.

I believe that if one were to practice with a heavier bo, then one could use a lighter one easily. However, if someone practices with a light bo, perhaps they would be at a loss to use the heavier one. This adds nothing to the thread, of course, because I know nothing about the staff. I appreciate the comments regarding which bo to use (a "log"! --> hahahaha! that was a good one! --> I can imagine someone trying to use a telephone pole!)


I have and use a tapered bo for "open" weapons in competition. It is 3/4" in the middle tapered to 1/2" at each end and is very light. It gives me the ability spin and throw the weapon in my creative forms. I do the majority of my training with my heavy bo, since the forms are really made for it. The use of each style of bo has its purpose and place. To not explore other types of use would be to limit my training and knowledge.

[CuongNhuka]

It is 3/4" in the middle tapered to 1/2" at each end and is very light.

Ohh, that... forgot about doing that... not usre if there are style that actaully use those, or if they compition only.