Technique of the middle finger? and foul words?

[still learning]

Hello, When someone shows you the middle finger? or foul words to you and "you""... got angry,mad,fear or a bad reaction to it?

Did you know they "WON" because the purpose was to get you to react that way!

It is amazing how nasty words and a sign language (middle finger) can cause people to fight or yell at each other.....shows this technique works well. (to cause a bad reaction inside of you)

The technique of the middle finger ...can it be defeated? How?

Can you win and know how to win=win here?

What are some of your suggestions for self-defense against the middle finger and "F" words,etc plus?

Aloha ( using two fingers instead of one)....later on the three finger technique...."

PS: How many burgers you want? this is where the three finger technique works well!

[MAFHonolulu]

I have to admit, I don't think I've ever been given the finger or sworn at really, except in jest. I have, however, had people be rather rude to me or been able to tell they were angry even though they didn't exactly swear. My best strategy is usually to just assume that they must have had a bad day, like maybe their lover broke up with them, or their dog died.

[MJS]

Hello, When someone shows you the middle finger? or foul words to you and "you""... got angry,mad,fear or a bad reaction to it?

Did you know they "WON" because the purpose was to get you to react that way!

It is amazing how nasty words and a sign language (middle finger) can cause people to fight or yell at each other.....shows this technique works well. (to cause a bad reaction inside of you)

The technique of the middle finger ...can it be defeated? How?

Can you win and know how to win=win here?

What are some of your suggestions for self-defense against the middle finger and "F" words,etc plus?

Aloha ( using two fingers instead of one)....later on the three finger technique...."

PS: How many burgers you want? this is where the three finger technique works well!

Some people thrive on egging others on. They 'win' if the 'victim' loses his cool, fires back with a comment, etc. IMHO, I think the best thing to do is simply ignore the person. As hard as it is at times, its the best way to go. I do my best, although there are times when I really have to bite my tounge, but I know that by ignoring, the other person will get tired due to the fact that its no longer any fun, if they can't make you angry. :)

[Sensei Payne]

the answer to this question is...Situational.......basiclly, there are way too many variables in thiss question to answer directly...but this is my answer to my students...

Remember your Dojo kun

• Strive for a good moral character
• Keep an honest and sincere way
• Cultivate perseverance or a will for striving
• Develop a respectful attitude
• Restrain my physical ability through spiritual attainment


and follow them the best way you know how.

[MBuzzy]

I'm with Terry. Ignore them and walk away. If they follow you, walk away again. If they get violent, then react. Until then....they're just words. Seriously.....people who get angry about that kind of stuff and beat people need to grow up and get over it.

[Kacey]

People who use gestures or words to provoke a reaction are, generally, bullies - and the best way to deal with bullies is to walk away and not display the reaction they try to provoke. Sadly, this is quite difficult for many people.

[newGuy12]

I think that I see the middle finger and cursing and so forth most in traffic. If you drive a car on a crowded street, where there are too many cars, maybe "close calls" happen, or someone does not follow the protocols -- wait for the end of the merging lines to merge, do not merge before the lines end, or something.

So, another driver feels like they are "cut off" or something, and -- there goes the middle finger and the yelling.

Now, there are some places where people sit around, drink alcohol, and then feel like a big shot, or whatever. That causes people to get angry, to have misperceptions, and then, "Hey, $!!$@@# you, you !@#$!!" And, then, the other person responds in kind, it keeps escalating, and, bam -- a chair or whatever goes flying.

That's a mess.

Usually in traffic, I just slow down, I yeild (I let the other driver by, whatever). I was a taxi driver once and we watched a WHOLE lot of videos on how to be a courteous driver, to follow protocols. That will usually diffuse the anger enough.

As for drinking, I do not drink alcohol, or hang out with people who are drinking -- I am too old for all of that, and I don't have the need to "give it back" when someone gives me the middle finger salute because I am fully an adult. That is a game for young people (men, I would think, more than women?)

-----------------

Oh, no burgers, I have ONE Pineapple, from the Land of Ed Parker to eat as a treat tonight. -- Good Food is important!!!

[newGuy12]

You know, I don't want to be too verbose here, but this is something that has been on my mind a lot lately. Even tonight, I spoke to an aquaintance about this martial art school, thinking that he might wish to join me in this training. He told me, "Oh, you are swimming in a sea of violence".

Somehow, that does not seem so true, and I can't put my finger on it. You know, a lot of scriptures exist in many different cultures that speak about kindness, and so forth.

I should not have made it sound like it is reasonable for a young person to just dive right in there and "take the bait", to go ahead and "get their licks in". This day in age its different. Young people shoot each other!!! That was never heard of when I was in high school. It never happened. So, the stakes are higher.

Also, (this is true) -- one time there was a PhD who came to a college campus for a colloquium. Well into the talk (when people were starting to nod off), another freaking PhD who was in attendance took issue with one of the things the man was putting on the black board. He was very vocal and ended up physically struggling with the guest over the marker, to make correction to an equation.

It was shocking.

They did not come to blows, but there was a physical struggle over the marker for a short bit.

Can you imagine? It goes to show that anyone can "loose their head" if they are not careful. They were caught up in the moment and tuned in to far or something.

[Cirdan]

I always asume people giving the finger are angry because they have run out of toilet paper. Why? The middle finger was originally a technique for umm.. wiping your own behind.

[Kreth]

The middle finger was originally a technique for umm.. wiping your own behind.
You know, I find this more believable than the tired "English longbowmen/Pluck yew" myth. :p

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

Personally anytime someone throws me the middle finger I just thank them for reminding me that in my own mind I'm number one!

[Sukerkin]

OT - Kreth, it is not the 'bird' that is attributed historically to English longbowmen but the 'Vee'.

The story is that it was a sign of defiance and retribution to show the French that the bowman still had their first two fingers and thus could still shoot their bows.

Why was that a focus for them? Because the French allegedly used to cut those fingers off captured longbowmen so that they could not shoot again.

I have to say that that is more than a little difficult to back up historically, tho' I have to say I have not looked into it too deeply so there may well be a reference that I'm unaware of that proves the link.

Back to your scheduled thread programming :D.

[Kreth]

OT - Kreth, it is not the 'bird' that is attributed historically to English longbowmen but the 'Vee'.
Well, the myth has popped up here, and some choose to believe it, even though Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.asp) has debunked it. It's basically a variation of your story.

[theletch1]

One of the concepts that we drill constantly in my aikido dojo is the idea of Ma-ai. Stand facing your opponent, put out your arm as your training partner puts out theirs, your fingers should just touch. This is Ma-ai...the last, closest distance at which an unarmed attacker can be and not be considered a threat. At that distance, our drill tells us, the person can swing 'til their arm falls off, kick 'til their knee pops out or swear 'til their head explodes...and they're no danger to us. Any closer than that and we go into another thought process but at that distance or more they are no threat to me and are therefore not high on my anxiety list. One of the earlier posters stated they just assumed that the person "flipping the bird" had had a lover leave them or pet die. That is a great way to see it. It's very aiki and a good way to keep someone else from getting under your skin.

NewGuy, I've been a truck driver for the last 12 years and know exactly how you felt driving a taxi. It's a zen test every day.

[Touch Of Death]

Hello, When someone shows you the middle finger? or foul words to you and "you""... got angry,mad,fear or a bad reaction to it?

Did you know they "WON" because the purpose was to get you to react that way!

It is amazing how nasty words and a sign language (middle finger) can cause people to fight or yell at each other.....shows this technique works well. (to cause a bad reaction inside of you)

The technique of the middle finger ...can it be defeated? How?

Can you win and know how to win=win here?

What are some of your suggestions for self-defense against the middle finger and "F" words,etc plus?

Aloha ( using two fingers instead of one)....later on the three finger technique...."

PS: How many burgers you want? this is where the three finger technique works well!Just ask if that is how many ***blank*** you have, had, or want. They usually laugh depending on the creativity of the joke. Then if all else fails, hit them with "finger Set":)
Sean

[SKB]

Ok so I know people think by using the finger and curse words you are some how a bully or mentally weak or whatever? I am not a bully but if I start cursing at you, and the other things people think are rude, you might not want to blow me off! Maybe, just maybe some of us who use the finger are trying to tell the rest of you something? Cut me off in traffic, to the point I have to react before you hit me and yes you will get the finger! I know it is immature of me to do it since I should just let you into the space I was occupying and be happy you invaded my space and be all zen like about it........ because your time is more valuable then mine.......
You piss me off I am going to let you know. Keep pissing me off and you might not like me. I aint trying to be an ass but really get off your soap boxs for a minute. I get tired of people being rude to me and I'll let them know! What is rude?

Say I'm standing in line to get a soda at a fast food joint. You just walk up and cut in front of me! Now should I just let you do it? Of course in the bigger picture of life it means nothing BUT I think you should have to stand in line like everyone else, so I tell you! Here is a good one which really happened......

Guy is talking to my wife and her friend in a bar for like five minutes. He is not happy since the girl he is hitting on is not interested (no not my wife). At one point he grabs my wife by the arm. Nothing real serious but she has to pull away. I walk up and tell him something along the lines of "That will be enough you can go the **** away." This idiot takes it as an affront to his manhood and pulls his own sports coat down over his arms and waits for his friend to take his jacket off so we can have some sort of chivalrous boxing bout????? Well the wife told me to leave him be and when he finally got the jacket off I told him "You can go now." This dude walked away after a few minutes. Don't you think he should of got the hint I was not playing? Instead he tells me I can not talk to him using such language????? I know this is long but really maybe folks need to think of it in a different light then just that persons dog died??? Maybe they won't give you the finger or curse you out if you pay attention to what it is YOU did to piss them off???

[still learning]

Hello, Learning to be mature and being mature is a good thing to know.

Using foul words or showing some kind of sign language or aggresive body language is NOT A SIGN OF MATURITY!

Ignoring the finger and language's...is the first sign of a mature person!

2nd sign is the hands on the pistol grip! ...(onlyl kidding)

HOW MANY OF US ARE REALLY A MATURE PERSON AND CAN BEHAVE THAT ALL THE TIME?

2nd sign is NOT using those middle fingers and dirty words... a mature person will not go there.

Aloha ( my wife thinks I am not mature? ...so I show her some of my fingers? )....thumbs up!

[SKB]

Some folks are not raised in enviorments were cursing is so bad. Some of you might of been but really there is a whole segment of society were curse words flow! It has nothing to do with being mature.

If you see a scary/bad person and they are cusing and showing you the evil finger are you just going to turn and walk away? I'll give you a hint....... odds are you are going to get hit in the back of the head. I'll go back to my statment from earlier........ Why is the person yelling and cusing and making a fuse? DID YOU DO SOMTHING TO THEM? There really are people who live out there in the world who are not going to turn the other cheeck! I think it comes around to living in the real world!

For the purpose of this thread I think maybe the quickest counter to the finger "technique" might be an quick "Sorry did not mean to do that?" Instead of finding some social high ground and standing on it.

[Kreth]

I'm with SKB here. I've known people who couldn't put together a sentence without the odd profanity, but who were great people. I've also known the type who were polite in person but would stab you in the back as soon as you turned it.
Sometimes aggresiveness and yes profanity is the best way to deal with a situation. I've talked my way out of a few fights by detailing to my opponent in a loud and profane manner exactly what I was going to do to him if he didn't "back the **** off." Sometimes walking away is the best response, sure, but sometimes you have to establish dominance to avoid getting jumped as you try to walk away.

[bushidomartialarts]

One way I discuss this with my students...

Usually, somebody swearing at or giving you the finger isn't cussing or flipping off you.

Usually, they're in a bad mood about something unrelated and you just happen to be handy. It's not personal. The person might not even know you. They're not cursing you, they're cursing themselves because they're in pain about something in their own lives.

Somebody in that mental state needs our compassion, even our guidance. Not our anger.

[still learning]

Hello, We grew up with our role models (mom, dad,grand parents,cousins,friends,relatives,who ever we look up too,).

Just because they use bad words or middle fingers doesn't make it right?

As we get older we can make our own choices of language to use and which fingers we want to use or not use.

When you learn this is bad? ...then a mature person learns NOT to follow those bad role models. Everyone can change if they want to.

There is NO excuse for use bad words or use of middle finger. A mature person knows this...and will not behave this way.

Growing up is NOT easy to do....any habit is hard to change...BUT can be change if you want too! .............Aloha

[CuongNhuka]

Ahhh yes... 'Punk Fu'... (in deep pseudo-Chinese voice) only good against newbies, back to Training Daniel-san!.... Still Learning-san...

[newGuy12]

Back To Training!!!

[Kreth]

There is NO excuse for use bad words or use of middle finger. A mature person knows this...and will not behave this way.... in your opinion. I just thought I'd put that in since you forgot it.

[still learning]

... in your opinion. I just thought I'd put that in since you forgot it.

Do you believe it is just my opinion here on this? Can you imagine if our leaders (President)use those words and show there fingers at you? or your father and mother too?

How will most people react seeing someone doing those things? Mature people knows the value of correct behavior!

Some people live where these acts are consider exceptable.....(now this is my opinion here?).

Your right all the above is MY OPINION! This "One" has been known to be incorrect at times.

Thank-you for the reminder............ (all or most of the post are opinions).

Aloha (the correct answers are what you believe)........or want to believe.. just an opinion here....

[Kreth]

Do you believe it is just my opinion here on this?
You're right, I was wrong. There is never a time when profanity is correct.



Oh, say hi to Wally and the Beav for me, would you?



:rolleyes:

[Touch Of Death]

Do you believe it is just my opinion here on this? Can you imagine if our leaders (President)use those words and show there fingers at you? or your father and mother too?

How will most people react seeing someone doing those things? Mature people knows the value of correct behavior!

Some people live where these acts are consider exceptable.....(now this is my opinion here?).

Your right all the above is MY OPINION! This "One" has been known to be incorrect at times.

Thank-you for the reminder............ (all or most of the post are opinions).

Aloha (the correct answers are what you believe)........or want to believe.. just an opinion here....Hello... Dick Cheney!!!!!
Sean

[newGuy12]

Well, it seems to me that its best to use standard English to communicate with. Now, I am not skilled like that. I make manner errors. I should get a good book on grammar and study it, but, there are only so many hours in the day, right? We can only study so many things. Our time is limited.

But, many people are put off by vulgarity. Don't think its not so. We all know that if people use foul words, it puts the speaker in a bad light!

[Kreth]

But, many people are put off by vulgarity. Don't think its not so. We all know that if people use foul words, it puts the speaker in a bad light!
It all depends on context. I'm reasonably certain that if my band is playing out, I can yell, "How the **** are you guys doing tonight?" and no one will be offended. But then some in this thread want to deal in absolutes...

[Sukerkin]

Not necessarily absolutes, Kreth, but certainly attitudes and inculcated standards of what is acceptable.

I've seen many bands in my time (been in a couple too) and a great many fell into the cliche trap of offensive language on the mike to prove just how out-of-control and rebellious they are. It didn't impress me when I was a 'teen and it doesn't impress me now.

I've also known many ex-servicemen whose language would fry your eyebrows. I don't like it but it's the way they talk so I filter out the curses to get to what they are actually saying - tho' I might remind them that **** is not a universal noun, adverb, preposition or verb :D.

Swearing only has value if you mean it and don't use it all the time. In the ever immortal words used when trying to show some behaviour as underdeveloped, it's not big and it's not clever. I try not to but I have to confess that if someones language is liberally and consistently littered with expletives then it does have the sad effect of my revising my opinion of them downwards (until I get to know them better at any rate).

Whilst I agree that in some circumstances some may find that belligerent posturing and abuse are effective deterents, I've never found a use for them. That's largely because if I'm angry or scared enough for them to come to the surface, I've reached the stage where I actually stop talking and start acting - it's a mental wiring thing :shrugs:.

It's individual as well as cultural when all is said and done but I do feel that in general terms such visceral gestures and words are best reserved for those times when a person may trully need them ... why am I reminded of Spock in Star Trek IV at this point :lol: ... "Is this not the time for a colourful metaphor, Captain?". ROFL.

[Kacey]

Hello, When someone shows you the middle finger? or foul words to you and "you""... got angry,mad,fear or a bad reaction to it?

Did you know they "WON" because the purpose was to get you to react that way!

It is amazing how nasty words and a sign language (middle finger) can cause people to fight or yell at each other.....shows this technique works well. (to cause a bad reaction inside of you)

The technique of the middle finger ...can it be defeated? How?

Can you win and know how to win=win here?

What are some of your suggestions for self-defense against the middle finger and "F" words,etc plus?


The above was the original question. From that perspective, it is my opinion that people who use obscene gestures and/or terms for the purpose of provoking a response - not people who are using obscene gestures and/or terms as a response - people who are deliberately provoking others are often bullies.

Does that mean that I think that all people who use obscene gestures and/or terms are bullies? Of course not - but neither do I think that it enhances conversation when any term is used as verb, noun, adjective, and preposition - it annoys me, in the same way that it annoys me to hear people use "like" or "y'know" every third word; it becomes verbal filler that exist to slow, confuse, and/or derail actual communication.

As for the actual questions - how do you react, and how can that reaction be defeated - I react, generally, with boredom or disdain, as I usually have little interest in conversation with anyone who finds it necessary to repeat any word or gesture over and over for effect, rather than using a variety of terms and gestures to add depth and detail to their communication. How that reaction can be defeated depends largely on the person who is using the terms and/or gestures, their purpose in doing so, and my interest in having a continuing relationship of any type with the person in question. If it is a short-term interaction, I will generally ignore it; if it is a longer-term interaction, I will either ignore it (in the hopes that it will go away) or discuss it (because I want to have a meaningful conversation with the person).

[SKB]

"IMHO" you have got to be kidding me! Do some of you not get out much? There is a great big world out there and guess what??????? People use curse words all the damn time!!! Of course in polite society, as you stick your pinky out to drink your tea, you might not but the rest of the world does!

You may look down your nose at the guy cusing you out but maybe you ought to be watching for what is coming? If I cuse you out or throw the 'bird' at you then YOU did something to piss me off!!! Not my dog died or any other babbling crap you can come up with! I am pissed at YOU you might want to set aside your thoughts on curse words and listen to what I am saying!!

If some thug starts yelling and god forbid using curse words at you the last things you want to do is turn your back on them or tell them to stop using that langugage!!!!! Think of the cursing as if a dog just growled at you or a rattler is making noise! Or here is an idea........ test your idea of just ignoring the person or whatever!

Find a dog you don't know, think of growling as cursing for dogs, now make the dog growl, keep doing what is pissing the dog off and at some point lets see if you get bit!

[still learning]

Hello, The world is made of "good people and "bad people."

Good behavior and Bad behavior? Choices we all can choose to use!

Use good words or bad words..(NOT A RIGHT).....using bad words/middle finger does not solve problems....only create's more tension.

We must learn how to defend ourselves with the "right" returning actions...thru ignoring, thru proper body language, a mature mind ( not acting like the losers),not being childish,positive thinking, readness, and many more positive's ways of looking at things.

Also preparing ourselves for the worst?
.................................................. .................................................. ..
For those who feel it is OK to use foul words and middle fingers?
(which is a learn reactions from role models)

Cannot see other ways to react....others point of view...and no considerations of others.....this behavior is very SELFISH ACT!

To bad the world has "lots" of bad behavior's ? ..WE MUST ALL LEARN TO LIVE WITH! and be prepare to handle THEM!

Hawaii ? home of all kinds of languages and fingers).....Hula use their hands to tell a story! Many people also use the fingers to taste food?
Haven't found the best tasting finger yet! ...middle one?

Aloha (with the shaka sign)..for those who know what it is........"Howzit"..among others too (positive)

[Kacey]

"IMHO" you have got to be kidding me! Do some of you not get out much? There is a great big world out there and guess what??????? People use curse words all the damn time!!! Of course in polite society, as you stick your pinky out to drink your tea, you might not but the rest of the world does!

You may look down your nose at the guy cusing you out but maybe you ought to be watching for what is coming? If I cuse you out or throw the 'bird' at you then YOU did something to piss me off!!! Not my dog died or any other babbling crap you can come up with! I am pissed at YOU you might want to set aside your thoughts on curse words and listen to what I am saying!!

If some thug starts yelling and god forbid using curse words at you the last things you want to do is turn your back on them or tell them to stop using that langugage!!!!! Think of the cursing as if a dog just growled at you or a rattler is making noise! Or here is an idea........ test your idea of just ignoring the person or whatever!

Find a dog you don't know, think of growling as cursing for dogs, now make the dog growl, keep doing what is pissing the dog off and at some point lets see if you get bit!

"What is right is not always popular, what is popular is not always right" - this quote is attributed to so many people that I won't try to attribute it to a particular author - nonetheless, it makes my point quite clearly. Simply because everyone does something does not mean that that particular activity is appropriate - and too many people feel that their own negative behavior is excused by the negative behaviors of others. How many people speed, or drink and drive, or make rude comments about someone who annoys them... and then complain when they either get called on it (by the police, by others around them, etc.) or when others do the same things to them? I know quite a few - but just because many people react that way doesn't make it right - just common.

I see this all too often with students at the middle school where I teach; I will stop a student in the hallway and ask why the student did something against school rules (screaming, tripping people, kicking, grabbing things from others, etc.) - the most common answer is "s/he did it to me first". So... that means (to the students - and to way too many adults) that it is okay to break the rules in response to someone else's rule breaking first. "Someone else did it to me first" is a rotten reason to do something you know is wrong, and it's a pretty bad excuse, too.

People react without thinking when they are upset, angry, or scared - I understand that. The question is, can you modify your behavior so that you think first - instead of reacting in a way you know is wrong just because someone did something wrong to you? I can - I've spend years training myself to do just that, because, as an adult, that's the example I feel I need to set for my students (both in TKD and middle school), and because I feel better about myself when I do so - even if I ***** and moan and complain about the person's behavior later.

If you choose to react in a negative fashion, because someone was negative to you first, that's your choice, just as disliking such behavior is mine - not because I'm "looking down my nose", but because, in my experience, not responding leads to a much better outcome for me than responding, as not responding, or responding in a neutral way, is much less likely to trigger further negative events than responding - which protects me from harm. If you choose to think poorly of me for that choice, that's your option - just as my preferred reaction and opinion is my option.

[newGuy12]

There's far worse affronts that one can give than to curse them or make a bad gesture, that's for sure! And I, for one, have NO room to judge the actions of others too harshly.

But, if anyone ever finds themselves in a court of law, please, don't use those words or gestures. Civil proceedings separate us from the hordes of barbarians, and cursing is enough to land you in jail for a while to think about it.

I have been thinking about this. There is a certain 3 block by 11 block area of California that is ruled by a certain gang. Any kind of commerce that happens is "taxed" by that gang. They will get their money.

In such an environment, I suppose one has more to worry about than the choice of language. I just live in a more orderly area. And, some of this might have to do with getting older. Believe me, middle age is a drag. If anyone can avoid it (other than dying), please do, LOL!



Regards,

Robert