Bjj Belt Progression

[Spartan]

Hey Guys,
I know there's no set limit, but what's the average amount of time it takes to earn a black belt in bjj? I've heard it's around 10 yrs w/continual practice. If so, why so long?

Spartan

[Blindside]

Because thats how long it takes for most good students to develop the skill to hang with a BJJ black belt on the mat.

It is a long time, it is simply a very high standard.

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

My BJJ instructor told me that he earned his belt in 10 years. I asked him your question and he told me it's because it takes about 10 years to not only learn but to understand the techniques. To be able to apply them and teach them. To be able to prove yourself either on the mat or in a competition.

[Spartan]

With what you've said, it seems to me that bjj has the highest belt standards of any martial arts sytem I know of.

[Brian R. VanCise]

In general BJJ black belt standards are very high. However, I have noticed in the last four or five years a slight change with people getting belts black and otherwise earlier and earlier. While this is not everywhere it is happening a little bit. Still the standards and in general are high and that is a good thing. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Spartan]

So Brian,
Do you think this shift could be the result of less politics in the bjj community?

[Brian R. VanCise]

So Brian,
Do you think this shift could be the result of less politics in the bjj community?

Could be. It could also be that BJJ is big business right now and that some less than qualified people are teaching and advancing people. Or someone is advancing people faster for monetary reasons. A for instance I have heard of at least six people who got their blue belts in just a year. Ten years ago that did not happen very often. (if at all) It was more like two years plus for almost everyone I trained with.

Still in general most of the good BJJ schools that I know are maintaining standards and overall the BJJ belt ranking system is very, very good. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[profesormental]

Greetings.

I've seen people earn their blue belt in about a year or so, maybe year and a half.

Normally, it is a question of skill and how well you do with others on the mat.

Since I've seen really good guys go from white to blue in a year or so... spend a year or two more in blue... then go to purple and stay there for a few more years...

So that's 5 to 7 years to get to brown... where you spend a few years... so yeah... 8 to 10 years to get to black is about right.

At purple, they can coach and open schools and train others... sometimes at blue... so there should be no problem with the business side while keeping a higher standard for black belt.

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado

[Spartan]

Sometimes it seems to me that so much of bjj skill is based on athleticism. Maybe if you're a clutz you'll never get very far in this art. What do you think?

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

The beauty with martial arts (in my opinion) is that everyone can do it. Sometimes it does take longer for someone to either grasp the concepts or get their fitness level up. And you are right, there is a lot of athleticism involved in BJJ, there's also hundreds of complicated techniques. I would rather take longer to achieve my black belt and know that I had earned it then receive it early and know that I wasn't deserving of it.

[Ybot]

Sometimes it seems to me that so much of bjj skill is based on athleticism. Maybe if you're a clutz you'll never get very far in this art. What do you think?

I don't agree. BJJ grappling in the gi is less athleticism and more technique. The gi really slows down the match and often negates some of the advantage that athleticism gives. I find that even uncoordinated klutzes when they practice can make great Jiu-Jitsu players.

One thing that may lead to this assumption is that Jiu-Jitsu players tend to be in good shape. I think this is less a function of what they were before Jiu-Jitsu, and more about what Jiu-Jitsu made them. It's pretty much impossible to train regularly in BJJ and not get stronger.


In general BJJ black belt standards are very high. However, I have noticed in the last four or five years a slight change with people getting belts black and otherwise earlier and earlier. While this is not everywhere it is happening a little bit. Still the standards and in general are high and that is a good thing.
I think this has more to do with the fact that there are now more and more higher belts training in the US, so the beginner today has an advantage in training partners over the beginners of the past. My instructor promotes people to Blue typically around 14 months or so, and I can testify that the new guys at my school are getting better much faster than I did when I was a white belt training at a school with fewer higher ranked belts.

[profesormental]

Greetings.

I agree that higher level training partners make you get better faster.

Also, in BJJ with the gi, a lot of technique is required... yet it IS still exhausting grappling... you will get in shape.

Yet, since the requirements for black belt are in terms of skills in the mat, rather than just knowledge... it is a very respectable and consistent standard... which is something I like.

By playing in the mat with peers, and being able to hang with them, is that which proves you level.

So if you're white and you start to dominate with technique some blue belts, you're ready for blue... if you're dominating purple belts... you're ready for blue... except if you're blue... then you go to purple, etc.

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado

[firstcoastfb44]

as a instructor of bjj, undefeated grappler, and martial artists of many styles the style of bjj is spreading like wild fire. it takes 10 to 15 years to earn a bjj black belt that is why you commenly see blue purple and brown belt instructors. another reason is because finding a true gracie black belt is rare it isnt like karate where a 2nd dan can promote a brown to black he must be a certain degree and that takes rougly 16 years to do. the awesome part is though 75% or bjj is learn in the 1st 6 months the other 25 takes 10 to 15 years to learn.. and there is no subtitute for mat time. i know it sucks being a white belt, or fresh into it and it is going to take forever, but when you get your belts and stripes you will know you earn them

[dru123]

I don't agree. BJJ grappling in the gi is less athleticism and more technique. The gi really slows down the match and often negates some of the advantage that athleticism gives. I find that even uncoordinated klutzes when they practice can make great Jiu-Jitsu players.


I was humbled when I went to my first (gi) BJJ class. I consider myself in pretty good shape. I lift weights about 3 days a week, run 3 miles 2 days a week, do yoga 2 days, and do martial arts 3 days. I didn't think I would have any problem with BJJ class, but after one hour I was exhausted. I asked my training partner how long class was and I almost fainted when he said 2 hours. I have done gi and no gi training and I don't find one any easier then the other.

[Ybot]

I was humbled when I went to my first (gi) BJJ class. I consider myself in pretty good shape. I lift weights about 3 days a week, run 3 miles 2 days a week, do yoga 2 days, and do martial arts 3 days. I didn't think I would have any problem with BJJ class, but after one hour I was exhausted. I asked my training partner how long class was and I almost fainted when he said 2 hours. I have done gi and no gi training and I don't find one any easier then the other.
How long have you been training?

I have found that grappling requires a different type of cardio than stand up fighting and jogging, or just about any other exercise besides grappling. I didn't claim that the classes were easy to get through, but over time it becomes easier. Yes, you do get stronger from training, and things become easier as your body adjusts to the kind of exercise you are doing. But, also a huge thing I see in BJJ is that beginners fight and exert energy at the wrong times. As their technique improves they are able to find better positioning, and make it easier on them and harder on their opponents. In the gi especially you can find a tight position and hold on if you have proper technique. This is much harder to do in a no-gi setting because grips are slippery and people can more easily explode out of bad positions, which encourages a much more active competition. Certainly technique and strategy are essential in no-gi, but mistakes are much more forgivable if your athletic enough to explode out. In gi, tight non-slippery grips slow down the overall pace of a match, and if you get caught, it is much harder to escape, so in essense the less athletic, but more tactical and technical player has more of an advantage over the natural athlete in the gi.

[fistlaw720]

BJJ brought meaning back to the rank of "Black Belt".

I remember my first couple of weeks and it royally sucked. I was in a class with only purples and high blues, no white belts came in during the morning hours. So I was getting ripped to shreds by everyone. Once I finally had some white belts to spar with. I realized how good I was getting. Only to be re-humbled by the purple belts.

[halfnote19]

As I have been looking into schools I have come across the International BJJ Federation.
Some schools follow their recommendation for belt progression.

http://www.ibjjf.org/graduation.htm

They have minimum time limits to advance in belt colors. Once you have a blue belt they have estimated 4 1/2 years min to get your black belt.
What do you think about this?

[temagami]

Also consider that nowadays many people are coming from other disciplines to Jiu-Jitsu. For example, I have my 2nd Dan in Hapkido. So, all the break falls and wrist locks are exactly the same. The take downs are virtually identical and some of the ground work crosses over. I've also studied numerous Judo techniques. Now, I admit I have a long way to go when it comes to serious grappling, BUT I am able to move through the "Q" belts rather quickly.

Remember, many people are trying BJJ for the first time - but they have been training in other M.A's for years.

[joemoplata]

I think this has more to do with the fact that there are now more and more higher belts training in the US, so the beginner today has an advantage in training partners over the beginners of the past. My instructor promotes people to Blue typically around 14 months or so, and I can testify that the new guys at my school are getting better much faster than I did when I was a white belt training at a school with fewer higher ranked belts.

I agree with this 100%. People are getting better quicker because they are getting higher level instruction early on. When I first started training at my academy we had 1 black belt and like 10 blue belts. Back then, you were looking at about 2 years to get to blue. Now, almost 10 years later, people are getting blue belts on average in a year because they are training daily with black belts, brown belts and TONS of purple belts. And they are getting WAY better than I was at the same period in their training.

[Marvin]

Could be. It could also be that BJJ is big business right now and that some less than qualified people are teaching and advancing people. Or someone is advancing people faster for monetary reasons. A for instance I have heard of at least six people who got their blue belts in just a year. Ten years ago that did not happen very often. (if at all) It was more like two years plus for almost everyone I trained with.

Still in general most of the good BJJ schools that I know are maintaining standards and overall the BJJ belt ranking system is very, very good. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif
So true Brian. I remember going to a seminar and the bjj instructor when he walked around asked everyone did they pay their seminar fee.
I know of 1 or 2 people who probably shouldent be the belt they are, but bjj has a wonderful way of showing this. It's called rolling. Any lacking of skill will quickly become apparent. Which is a good thing.
Also I think the quality of instruction has gone up as well, alot of us, when we started traing bjj were doing postures incorrectly (some were even shown wrong on purpose:shrug:). There is a lot more openness in the art now.

[joemoplata]

So true Brian. I remember going to a seminar and the bjj instructor when he walked around asked everyone did they pay their seminar fee.
I know of 1 or 2 people who probably shouldent be the belt they are, but bjj has a wonderful way of showing this. It's called rolling. Any lacking of skill will quickly become apparent. Which is a good thing.
Also I think the quality of instruction has gone up as well, alot of us, when we started traing bjj were doing postures incorrectly (some were even shown wrong on purpose:shrug:). There is a lot more openness in the art now.
Marvin,

You sound a bit frustrated with some of your experiences with BJJ instructors. Can you elaborate on who these were with and who you're with now and what the difference is?

[Marvin]

Marvin,

You sound a bit frustrated with some of your experiences with BJJ instructors. Can you elaborate on who these were with and who you're with now and what the difference is?
Hey Joe, sorry I didn't respond earlier, didn't see the post. I'm not frustrated, just don't have time for a lot of BS. I'm not big into mud slinging so I'll refrain from talking about particular individuals. The difference is in training methods. But I will tell you what I don't like as far that goes.
I dislike the style of showing one or two techniques that may or may not go together repping them a few times and then "ok free spar it". That way insures all the young studs work over every one else.
I dislike individuals who sandbag their students belts so they win metals at tournys.
I dislike instructors who don't share.

I am an atg of the straight blast gym, but the sbg is more of a loose knit confederation more than it is an organizationheaded by one individual. Everyone does their own thing, with one caveat "Aliveness". I know you've all seen and read about it ad nausium by now, but the alive thing is a litmus test, it brings an honesty to everything we do. And honesty is a good thing. I like the what is called the "I" method of training http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/2005/09/coaching-sbgi-way.html. And I like the people.

[joemoplata]

Marvin,

I totally understand. I teach two different programs myself, one is traditional gi BJJ and the other is no-gi and it's difficult to figure out how to teach in a way that is beneficial and also fun for everyone. The "here's a technique, now go spar" method is more common with Brazilian instructors (which is all I've ever known, so please don't think I'm knocking that). I myself have tried to move away from that mentality where I teach because of the complaints I've heard like you shared.

[Marvin]

Marvin,

I totally understand. I teach two different programs myself, one is traditional gi BJJ and the other is no-gi and it's difficult to figure out how to teach in a way that is beneficial and also fun for everyone. The "here's a technique, now go spar" method is more common with Brazilian instructors (which is all I've ever known, so please don't think I'm knocking that). I myself have tried to move away from that mentality where I teach because of the complaints I've heard like you shared.
That's cool that you are trying to change up your teaching method Joe. IMO, isolation with progressive resistance is the best way to go for every body type.

[MeatWad2]

The school I go to doesn't let you go past blue belt until you can compete and handle yourself in class with other blue and purple belts without a problem. It doesn't mean you win every single time, however, you can just hold your own is what matters. It takes 10 years to get a black belt in the school I train at...no exceptions. Even this guy's son doesn't get a pass until he can hang with the black belts without a problem.

[joemoplata]

The school I go to doesn't let you go past blue belt until you can compete and handle yourself in class with other blue and purple belts without a problem. It doesn't mean you win every single time, however, you can just hold your own is what matters. It takes 10 years to get a black belt in the school I train at...no exceptions. Even this guy's son doesn't get a pass until he can hang with the black belts without a problem.
That's pretty standard operating procedure for a BJJ school.

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

This has been a fun read. The Gracie Academy in Torrance and it's offshoots (Ricksons school in Santa Monica and satellite school in Orange County, and the Machado's and their schools) used to tbe the only games in town. You got rank by working your butt off, then one day, one of the instructors would snatch a belt off the wall and say "Here. Wear dees". Poof; you're a blue belt...but got there making the other blues work to "catch" you, and occasionally catching one of them.

So this guy by the last name of Gracie...one of several cousins...came to the US, and opened a "Gracie jiu jitsu" school. But he didn't teach the way the others did, didn't demand the level of skill, and promotion was based largely on if the check cleared. Trouble for him was, everybody knew that about him, except for the unsuspecting public who found him in the phone book and were glad they didn't have to drive from Newport Beach to Torrance.

So, one of Ricksons students is purple or brown, demands the next rank up, and has to roll with Rickson to earn it...hold him off for some number of tapouts in some other number of minutes. Fails. Leaves. Couple of months later, shows up in a martial arts mag as the demo dummy for the quack Gracie, wearing a black belt. For privacy sake, let's call him "bozo".

Not long after that, there was a big BJJ tourney in Irvine at the Bren Events Center. BJJ teams flew up from Brazil, and in from the east coast. Everytime a rep from bozo's school gets called to the floor for a match, the entire stadium lets out a collective "boooooo". Why? Because they were students under a guy wearing rank earned the easy way.

In all fairness, Bozo proceeded to prove his own worth both in his own improved personal performance, as well as turning out some pretty darned good fighters into MMA. But I bet there were at least a coule of years where he regretted taking the easy way out.

In short, the problem for guys getting it fast is that they will always be looked at sideways by guys who put their time into a longer road. 10 to 14 years was average then. How do you suppose a 14 year BJJ black belt is going to regard a 5 year BJJ black belt? Like a purple promoted too soon.

Fun topic; thanks for the memories.

D.

[USP45CT]

Id say 9-12 years if you remain dedicated and consistent.

[SA_BJJ]

In short, the problem for guys getting it fast is that they will always be looked at sideways by guys who put their time into a longer road. 10 to 14 years was average then. How do you suppose a 14 year BJJ black belt is going to regard a 5 year BJJ black belt? Like a purple promoted too soon.


Makes me think of guys like Joe Stevenson, Jake Shields, GSP...etc etc etc.

They may be good in their own rights, but did they truly earn that Black belt? Hmmm, one will never know.:soapbox:

[Ybot]

Makes me think of guys like Joe Stevenson, Jake Shields, GSP...etc etc etc.

They may be good in their own rights, but did they truly earn that Black belt? Hmmm, one will never know.:soapbox:
Okay, I know nothing of Joe Stevenson's grappling ability, other than several years ago he beat my instructor Cassio Werneck (who was fresh from winning the Mundials BTW) in a sub-grappling tourney. Stevenson won on points from takedowns. He was tough, and tenacious, which is what brought his victory. That was in '03 or '04. Do I think he could have ligitemately have reached black belt by now? Probably, but I don't know.

GSP, I know nothing about his sub-grappling/BJJ ability.

I do know, though, that Jake Sheilds is an amazing top level grappler. There is no question as to his ability. Ceaser Gracie doesn't hand out belts, and all of his black belts are world class level. David Terrell, Nick Dias, and Shields.

[SA_BJJ]

I am in no way saying that they didnt earn their belts, however this is the reason why so many BJJ newbs either ask how long it takes to get a blackbelt or start to come up with hypathetical situations like "if I train for 5 hours a day for 6 days a week for 2 years then I should get a black belt" Thats BS. And I think ALOT of belt are handed out.

Also, you can be a world class grappler and not be a black belt. So that is no valid argument to me.

[Ybot]

I am in no way saying that they didnt earn their belts, however this is the reason why so many BJJ newbs either ask how long it takes to get a blackbelt or start to come up with hypathetical situations like "if I train for 5 hours a day for 6 days a week for 2 years then I should get a black belt" Thats BS. And I think ALOT of belt are handed out.

Also, you can be a world class grappler and not be a black belt. So that is no valid argument to me.
You act as if these guys received their belts quickly, or something. Jake didn't get his belt BJ Penn fashion. He trained for years under Ceaser Gracie. If we assume that he was at minimum a white belt when he fought his first MMA match, that would put him at at least 9 years of training before he got his Black. Knowing Ceaser Gracie, though, it was probably longer.

[SA_BJJ]

You act as if these guys received their belts quickly, or something. Jake didn't get his belt BJ Penn fashion. He trained for years under Ceaser Gracie. If we assume that he was at minimum a white belt when he fought his first MMA match, that would put him at at least 9 years of training before he got his Black. Knowing Ceaser Gracie, though, it was probably longer.

So are you saying that BJ didnt deserve his belt. BJJ is based on skill. Yes you have to put the time in, but if you progress quickly its because you have the skill to do so.

[Pyrock]

Now you got me wondering who "Bozo Gracie" really is! :confused: I am not a practitioner but rather a parent of one who trains under one of the Gracies so I know virtually.....NOTHING!

[Steve]

Sometimes it seems to me that so much of bjj skill is based on athleticism. Maybe if you're a clutz you'll never get very far in this art. What do you think?I can tell you that's not true in my experience. I'm a physical retard, and was awarded my blue belt after about 18 months. I worked hard and focused on technique. There are a lot of guys more athletic than I am, but I hold my own and did very well in competition against other white belts.

I can understand that it might look like athleticism trumps skill in BJJ. Certainly doesn't hurt, but I've found that consistent training in BJJ will actually help you become more fit and athletic, particularly through your core. Not the other way around. Or maybe to be more clear, you don't gain rank in BJJ by being athletic. Instead, you become more athletic by training in BJJ... and the rank takes care of itself.

I can almost see my abs under my beer gut now. :)

[Steve]

I am in no way saying that they didnt earn their belts, however this is the reason why so many BJJ newbs either ask how long it takes to get a blackbelt or start to come up with hypathetical situations like "if I train for 5 hours a day for 6 days a week for 2 years then I should get a black belt" Thats BS. And I think ALOT of belt are handed out.

Also, you can be a world class grappler and not be a black belt. So that is no valid argument to me.You're also talking about elite athletes. One thing that I like about BJJ, common to many martial arts, is that being an elite athlete doesn't hurt, but isn't required. Stands to reason that the guys competing at that level, who are elite athletes training in combat sports full time, will progress faster than guys who train 10 or 15 hours per week. If it takes an average guy 10 or so years to achieve a black belt, it makes sense to me that an elite athlete would progress faster.

As for being a world class grappler, sure, there are world class wrestlers who aren't BJJ black belts. At the same time, those world class wrestlers have an enviable foundation that would make excelling in BJJ much easier than someone who had never seen it before.

My theory is that, in the USA at least, the strong wrestling tradition laid the groundwork (haha) for an explosion of great jits. We have kids who are grappling as early as age 5 in wrestling coming into the BJJ school at 15 with strong takedowns, heavy hips, great body awareness and a laudable work ethic. Why wouldn't they pick it up faster? Of course, this is also, IMO, why no-gi seems to be more popular, but there you go. That's another discussion entirely. :)

[SA_BJJ]

You're also talking about elite athletes. One thing that I like about BJJ, common to many martial arts, is that being an elite athlete doesn't hurt, but isn't required. Stands to reason that the guys competing at that level, who are elite athletes training in combat sports full time, will progress faster than guys who train 10 or 15 hours per week. If it takes an average guy 10 or so years to achieve a black belt, it makes sense to me that an elite athlete would progress faster.

As for being a world class grappler, sure, there are world class wrestlers who aren't BJJ black belts. At the same time, those world class wrestlers have an enviable foundation that would make excelling in BJJ much easier than someone who had never seen it before.

My theory is that, in the USA at least, the strong wrestling tradition laid the groundwork (haha) for an explosion of great jits. We have kids who are grappling as early as age 5 in wrestling coming into the BJJ school at 15 with strong takedowns, heavy hips, great body awareness and a laudable work ethic. Why wouldn't they pick it up faster? Of course, this is also, IMO, why no-gi seems to be more popular, but there you go. That's another discussion entirely. :)
I can agree with that...however in my opinion I think that no-gi training has really taken off because everyone and their mom wants to be an MMA fighter now.

[SA_BJJ]

I can tell you that's not true in my experience. I'm a physical retard, and was awarded my blue belt after about 18 months. I worked hard and focused on technique. There are a lot of guys more athletic than I am, but I hold my own and did very well in competition against other white belts.

I can understand that it might look like athleticism trumps skill in BJJ. Certainly doesn't hurt, but I've found that consistent training in BJJ will actually help you become more fit and athletic, particularly through your core. Not the other way around. Or maybe to be more clear, you don't gain rank in BJJ by being athletic. Instead, you become more athletic by training in BJJ... and the rank takes care of itself.

I can almost see my abs under my beer gut now. :)
Blue belt in 18 months is not bad at all!!!!! Congrats. How long have you been in the blue?

[Steve]

I can agree with that...however in my opinion I think that no-gi training has really taken off because everyone and their mom wants to be an MMA fighter now.
That's part of it, too. I've heard guys say that training gi is unrealistic, cheating... you name it. Lots of reasons.

I'm a pretty new blue belt... got it in July. :) November was my two year anniversary.

[SA_BJJ]

That's part of it, too. I've heard guys say that training gi is unrealistic, cheating... you name it. Lots of reasons.

I'm a pretty new blue belt... got it in July. :) November was my two year anniversary.
Well congrats on the new blue belt...it is an awesome milestone!

[Ybot]

So are you saying that BJ didnt deserve his belt. BJJ is based on skill. Yes you have to put the time in, but if you progress quickly its because you have the skill to do so.

LOL, no. I was making the point that these guys have been at it for years, working as professional fighters too. I was responding to the way I interpreted your original post:



Kembudo-Kai Kempoka"[/B]]In short, the problem for guys getting it fast is that they will always be looked at sideways by guys who put their time into a longer road. 10 to 14 years was average then. How do you suppose a 14 year BJJ black belt is going to regard a 5 year BJJ black belt? Like a purple promoted too soon.Makes me think of guys like Joe Stevenson, Jake Shields, GSP...etc etc etc.

They may be good in their own rights, but did they truly earn that Black belt? Hmmm, one will never know.:soapbox:

Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were questioning their qualifications based on their time in training. I pointed out that I knew at least Jake has been at his training for a long time. What I said about BJ Penn was to reference a guy who got a black belt fast, but got a legit black belt fast. I was not questioning his black belt, because I know it's legit, I was just pointing out that those guys that you pointed out have been at it for years.

[SA_BJJ]

LOL, no. I was making the point that these guys have been at it for years, working as professional fighters too. I was responding to the way I interpreted your original post:



Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were questioning their qualifications based on their time in training. I pointed out that I knew at least Jake has been at his training for a long time. What I said about BJ Penn was to reference a guy who got a black belt fast, but got a legit black belt fast. I was not questioning his black belt, because I know it's legit, I was just pointing out that those guys that you pointed out have been at it for years.
I got you...misunderstanding...my bad.

[LordOfWu]

Great thread! I'm a fair newbie to bjj, just been training about 7 months...and one of the reasons I love it is because I'm not a super athletic guy. One thing I think I hear in almost every class is "leverage and technique over size and strength" and I truly get to see it in action!

I don't know enough to challenge anyone from anywhere at a higher level than me and second guess if they earned it...but I know that when I was looking for a school I wanted one that ran under either the Gracie or Machado banner, and meant it. When I get a promotion, I want it to mean something, I want to know that it took sweat, blood and tears to get it. If someone else wants/needs regular promotions to keep motivated (and I know people like that and I like them) then perhaps bjj is not for you, IMHO.

[suicide]

no sacrfice no succes :whip1:

[Aikicomp]

With what you've said, it seems to me that bjj has the highest belt standards of any martial arts sytem I know of.

Almost, Our Style of Ju-Jitsu (Gen Lee -consisting of Karate, Judo, Savate and Aikido) on average takes 5-10 years to earn Shodan. We also have high standards. Total we have under 50 Shodans and only 5 Godans. Hell, it took me 10 years. But, I'm a slow learner. LOL

Michael

[Steve]

Great thread! I'm a fair newbie to bjj, just been training about 7 months...and one of the reasons I love it is because I'm not a super athletic guy. One thing I think I hear in almost every class is "leverage and technique over size and strength" and I truly get to see it in action!

I don't know enough to challenge anyone from anywhere at a higher level than me and second guess if they earned it...but I know that when I was looking for a school I wanted one that ran under either the Gracie or Machado banner, and meant it. When I get a promotion, I want it to mean something, I want to know that it took sweat, blood and tears to get it. If someone else wants/needs regular promotions to keep motivated (and I know people like that and I like them) then perhaps bjj is not for you, IMHO.I'm sure you've found a great school. I just want to point out that there are a ton of great BJJ schools not run by the Machados or the Gracies. It's like wearing designer jeans... sure they look good and are well made, but you're also paying a premium for the name. You can get good instruction from non-Gracie/Machado schools, too. And many people do.

Lotus club, Alliance, Brasa and American Top Team among many others are great clubs with a terrific reputation. Just be smart and do what anyone would do. Check the instructor out, look at the students, ask where he trained and who his instructors are, how long he's trained in BJJ and then check out a class to see if the personality and structure of the school appeal to you.


Almost, Our Style of Ju-Jitsu (Gen Lee -consisting of Karate, Judo, Savate and Aikido) on average takes 5-10 years to earn Shodan. We also have high standards. Total we have under 50 Shodans and only 5 Godans. Hell, it took me 10 years. But, I'm a slow learner. LOL

MichaelIs there a website for this? I googled it and didn't come up with anything. I think high standards are great, but maintaining those high standards over time as a style grows in size and popularity is a problem. I've started seeing BJJ McDojos pop up here and there. Very sad, but inevitable, I guess.

I'm a slow learner to, for what that's worth. I completely understand. :) But I'm on the Ed O Niell track. Took him 14 years to get his Black Belt.
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[LordOfWu]

I'm sure you've found a great school. I just want to point out that there are a ton of great BJJ schools not run by the Machados or the Gracies. It's like wearing designer jeans... sure they look good and are well made, but you're also paying a premium for the name. You can get good instruction from non-Gracie/Machado schools, too. And many people do.

Lotus club, Alliance, Brasa and American Top Team among many others are great clubs with a terrific reputation. Just be smart and do what anyone would do. Check the instructor out, look at the students, ask where he trained and who his instructors are, how long he's trained in BJJ and then check out a class to see if the personality and structure of the school appeal to you.


I am sure there are a lot of good schools that are not under the Gracies or Machados (and I think there may be a slight confusion, my school is affiliated with the Machados, but our head instructor is Dave Ruiz). I based my decision on the fact that I didn't know anything about bjj to make a really well informed decision so I went with the "can't really go wrong here" approach. As I've read in this thread, there are apparently schools out there with those particular names that aren't necessarily up to the expected standards either, so I probably just got lucky.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, and I completely agree on the other criteria and those certainly drove the choice among the Gracie/Machado affiliated schools that I looked at.

I appreciate the open discussions I am seeing so far in this forum, truly.

[Nolerama]

I rolled with a guy from another area gym the other day. My gym is geared towards MMA, but we LOVE rolling. So it was a breath of fresh air to see a guy who's all about jits, and be able to communicate that on the mat.

I've seen guys from other disciplines walk in and try to establish a pecking order, but we're MMA guys, so we just tell them to spar/roll and see for themselves. They'll figure it out.

The camaraderie between all the BJJ and sub-grappling folks I've come across is awesome. Every place that's been gracious enough to have me has be nothing but welcoming and interested in rolling with a new person. I don't like to place a stereotype on practitioners for a MA, but I would have to say that it takes a high level of enthusiasm to keep rolling; which makes for a very jovial art amongst its practitioners, IMO.

[Steve]

I am sure there are a lot of good schools that are not under the Gracies or Machados (and I think there may be a slight confusion, my school is affiliated with the Machados, but our head instructor is Dave Ruiz). I based my decision on the fact that I didn't know anything about bjj to make a really well informed decision so I went with the "can't really go wrong here" approach. As I've read in this thread, there are apparently schools out there with those particular names that aren't necessarily up to the expected standards either, so I probably just got lucky.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, and I completely agree on the other criteria and those certainly drove the choice among the Gracie/Machado affiliated schools that I looked at.

I appreciate the open discussions I am seeing so far in this forum, truly.
Oh, hey! I'm not criticizing your choice of school. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of great BJJ schools and organizations. I'm sure your school is fine.

Nolerama, I've found that there's a good sense of humor, too. I don't know why, but every time I get together with a bunch of grapplers there's a lot of lowbrow humor and laughing, usually at ourselves.

[LordOfWu]

Oh, hey! I'm not criticizing your choice of school. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of great BJJ schools and organizations. I'm sure your school is fine.

Nolerama, I've found that there's a good sense of humor, too. I don't know why, but every time I get together with a bunch of grapplers there's a lot of lowbrow humor and laughing, usually at ourselves.

Certainly no offense taken on my side, just wanted to clarify my thought process...

And I agree also, I think when you engage in very personal, physical, one on one competition like grappling, you gain a bond and sense of comfort around each other that might take much longer with someone in a simple friendship situation.

[Aikicomp]

Is there a website for this? I googled it and didn't come up with anything.

If you googled our style you may find a style named Shinriryu Goshinjutsu. This is not the original Gen Lee Ju-Jitsu as taught by my teacher Nick.

I think high standards are great, but maintaining those high standards over time as a style grows in size and popularity is a problem.

I understand that first hand, we had a student who made blue belt (first rank) and when my friend got sick and could not teach he went out, bought a black belt and opened his own school..he lasted about 6 months before his students realized he was a tool and had no idea what he was doing. Thank God that died an ugly death. I'm just glad that my teacher wasn't alive to see that.

I've started seeing BJJ McDojos pop up here and there. Very sad, but inevitable, I guess.

Yup, all of a sudden everyone knows Ju-Jitsu and grappling. Indeed very sad.



No website, sorry. I have to try to do something about that. I am happy right now teaching privately to students who want to learn and not having the financial responsibility of trying to run a buisiness along with work and family.


Michael

[matt.m]

It is a combination of things that make a BJJ black belt. I have crazy respect for those who train for the love of training. I have done Judo etc. for a long time. I am only recently a certified dan not withstanding the shodan I earned in Judo while in the Marines for competition. I didn't get Dan certified in Judo by the USJA until 2006. I have recently been certified dan level in BJJ. I have been doing mat work for a little over 20 years. I have competed, competed, and competed some more. I have been an instructor in Judo or Wrestling in some fashion for many years.

However, my favorite students are the ones that just want to train and get better.

[msmitht]

As a practitioner of martial arts for 31 years, the last 6 1/2 in BJJ, I can honestly say that it is both time on the mat and skill level. I have seen blue belts work over purple and brown belts because they understand the techniques better. They will not be promoted any faster, at least not in our school, but they are technically superior. I have also seen college level wrestlers give black belts a hard time during their first class.
I think I am where I should be at purple belt. I am a little slow and my teacher tells me that I think too much and act too little.
The point is that everyone is different and some people just get there faster.
Some also decide to cheat the system and they know who they are.
2. BJ penn was the 1st non brazillian Black belt to win at the mundials so dont diss him.
1. St. Pierre is a Gracie Barra Black belt practicing for more than 12 years. Carlos Gracie Jr. (Head of Gracie Barra) Has never promoted anyone to Black belt b4 their time nor have any of his Black belts.

[PurpleParham84]

My Experience

I got my blue belt in 11 months from a Gracie black belt and a Machado black belt. Competed in a handleful of tournaments as a white belt, which helped out alot.

Spent 3 years as blue belt.

Promoted to Purple this summer.

It all depends on instructor, and all depends on you.

[TheArtofDave]

I'm with a school that is affiliated with the Roy Dean Academy. I've only been training for 3 months. The guys in my class are white belts too, but they've got a month or 2 ahead of me. The blue belt requirement there is one year. But I think in their system they implement a green belt after blue. I've read that some schools do this since there is a high level of advancement in BJJ it helps some schools round out the progression. Which I understand.

As far as progression I'm a realist. I want to earn my black belt. 10, 11, 12, or whatever. I could go 16, then want to spend an extra year to made sure I earned it. But my instructor knows best & he tells me I'm right where I need to be in learning. I've started rolling. I get owned a lot, but I still love it. The more I do it the more I'll find my way through it.

So I don't know how long the belt progression will be for me but different schools have different progression time limits.

There are always going to be McSomething's out there. But we've just got to make sure that we don't let the Mcsomethings out that affect us. Keeping the same high level of standards & respect in our training. & Should we get to the point where we are the teachers we definitely carry on the same high standards we progressed through.

Love conversation though. It gives me great insight to keep up my motivation. I love BJJ. I am very dedicated to it.

[BloodMoney]

With what you've said, it seems to me that bjj has the highest belt standards of any martial arts sytem I know of.

I would agree

Especially the schools I am affiliated with, they take AGES to hand out belts lol. But, as my instructor said, he wants a white belt from our school to clean up all the other white belts around etc, he doesnt want any 'fake" belts...he wants them to really be worth something and mean something.

A rough guide you should be able to dominate most people of equal belt before you move onto the next. 10 years for a black belt sounds a bit right, I would say even longer with some schools (like ours). Makes sense seeing as theres only 5 belts in BJJ (as opposed to some Karates etc where there seems like a million of them). Some schools use stripes but we dont, just white-blue-purple-brown-black thats it

[Brian R. VanCise]

I would agree

Especially the schools I am affiliated with, they take AGES to hand out belts lol. But, as my instructor said, he wants a white belt from our school to clean up all the other white belts around etc, he doesnt want any 'fake" belts...he wants them to really be worth something and mean something.

A rough guide you should be able to dominate most people of equal belt before you move onto the next. 10 years for a black belt sounds a bit right, I would say even longer with some schools (like ours). Makes sense seeing as theres only 5 belts in BJJ (as opposed to some Karates etc where there seems like a million of them). Some schools use stripes but we dont, just white-blue-purple-brown-black thats it

Four what it is worth I like how your instructor thinks. (forget all the stripes) http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[TheArtofDave]

There are stripes but you test for them. And by what I'm seeing from our instructor you've got to earn your stripes. I believe its 4 stripes on the white belt before you test for blue. I think I've got that right. If not I will ask when I go back after thanksgiving break.