TKD sparring...

[SRyuFighter]

I have heard a lot of bad things about TKD sparring. Could somebody tell me about the rules involved in all types of TKD sparring?

[TKDman]

Depends on which organzation, country, instructor, etc.

[white belt]

The style I train in and teach is WTF style TKD. To make a long story short it is very similar to Mas Oyama's Karate sparring. The main differences are we don't kick below the belt and we use foot and hand guards. The tournaments sometimes allow knock outs, in the Black Belt division only. The hand attacks are limited to the body, to force people to develop the swift head kicks. Self defense drills comprise our hand to head strikes. There are diverse views/rules concerning sparring, in TKD worldwide, due to the many organizations, daycare McDojangs popping up, and the harder traditionalists fighting the trendys. I once shut down an opponent in a tournament, back when I was 1st Dan, with a roundhouse kick to the ribs, while wearing chest protectors. It was ruled a TKO because he could not stand for about 5 minutes. He recovered, we joked around and watched the other divisions spar. I have heard that some organizations penalize for excessive contact, in the adult Black Belt division, if doing what I did at that tournament. A lot of rules are dictated by the insurance concerns of school owners and jumpy parents, I find.

white belt

[TkdWarrior]

sparring is basically tool in TKD it depends wat kind of sparring u r asking for...competition or regular sparring in TKD
competition rules change in every 100 miles or so... so no comments on that but the basic sparring should be like this

pre arranged
step sparring(3 step, 2 step 1 step), foot sparring, hand sparring,

semi arranged
in this section u add some rules it can be pre arranged too where u specify wat kind of things u want to work at.

free sparring
again this can get into foot sparring n hand sparring n then complete full sparring...here we try not to kill each other ;)

full contact sparring comes later
yea go for kill :D ;) j/k here we understand wat is our pain threshold is ...
-TkdWarrior-

[SMAC]

The WTF competitions i have competed in have been full contact, from the waist up only, no punching to the face. Head guards and chest protectors are worn. Scoring with punches is difficult. It isn't very realistic but is more useful is you train for full power knockout?down kicks rather than tappy point scorers.

[SRyuFighter]

Thanks everybody.

[cali_tkdbruin]

FYI, here's a link to a World Taekwondo Federation site that will give you comprehensive info about WTF Olympic style TKD rules. Hope this helps... :asian:

http://www.wtf.org/main.htm

[SRyuFighter]

Cool, thanks a lot. They sure do put a lot of restrictions on there don't they.

[jfarnsworth]

In my school we used the rules of kicking to the body and the head. Punching to the body only. No punching to the head, or sweeps, takedowns, groin strikes, ground techniques. This was before he changed the school and started to cater to this person and that one, this parent, I can't do that person, etc.:rolleyes:

[fissure]

Jason, if this is how you sparred when you trained in TKD, how do you spar in Kempo now?Less contact,. more tech.?

[jfarnsworth]

We spar with kicks at the groin and above. Front leg sweeps. Punching/striking the groin and above. Takedowns are legal.
I have a lot of respect for you to even try the nationals as you posted I think in the other thread. I wouldn't have even been able to go and do anything. Personally I didn't like TKD style sparring. It didn't suit me that well. Once my instructor starting changing (at least the sparring aspect) it was for the better. When we had the different instructors and styles things were going well. Get a taste of all different ideas and various sparring. No one spar's the same because we're all different. No one single person on the street will fight the same as anyone in your class. This is why I feel point sparring, heavy contact, full contact, TKD style is all worth merit for the development of your skills.:D

[fissure]

When I trained in Shotokan in Britain, it was basically point sparring. A little more contact would have been nice, but I loved the array of tech. allowed. If you accept each for what it is, then it can all be beneficial, I think.

[Zepp]

I study Tae Kwon Do under the World Tae Kwon Do Association. We actually do non-contact sparring, similar to some Karate styles. We actually have several people in our class that have practiced full contact sparring under the the WTF or in kickboxing, and they prefer our style because it seems more practical to them.

In class, we don't worry so much about keeping track of points, but points are effectively determined by whether or not a technique came close enough to a target (as in millimeters), wasn't blocked or checked, and obviously had enough power behind it to stun someone or break a bone. Needless to say, getting an actual "score" isn't made easy.

I don't mean to say that non-contact sparring is superior than full-contact, but it has its advantages. For one thing, without wearing pads, you certainly learn to throw good, solid blocks- as opposed to letting the pads soak it up for you.

-Zepp

[fissure]

as opposed to letting the pads soak it up for you.
Thats funny!:rofl:
Guys get KOed in competition all the time.I guess their pads weren't absorbent enough!

[Zepp]

:D That is funny. I was actually referring to the arm and shin pads worn in official WTF competitions.


-Zepp

[fissure]

I know! Thought the first response you got at Martial Talk should at least make you smile.
Seriously tIhough, WTF pads don't cover the fists or feet. It hurts like hell when you take a shot in the back, or some other unprotected area.

[white belt]

Zepp,

How do you know a block is "solid" if there is no contact? I have blasted through seemingly solid blocks in contact sparring. Are you doing that new math I've heard about?

Welcome aboard,
white belt

[Zepp]

I believe you misunderstood me White Belt. Non-contact means that our strikes do not make contact. If a block doesn't knock a strike out of the way, or abosorb it at the very least, you'd just end up looking silly.

Besides that, I should say that striking without making contact is the ideal, but mistakes happen aplenty. Particularly when we upper belts spar, because you become more likely to lose control as the intensity increases.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by fissure
I know! Thought the first response you got at Martial Talk should at least make you smile.
Seriously tIhough, WTF pads don't cover the fists or feet. It hurts like hell when you take a shot in the back, or some other unprotected area.

Yup, and you sportsfans should check out the nice purply-red bruises on my body on the day after a tourney that are a direct result of shots that get through. :(

See what happens when you're late with dodging and blocking... :shrug:

[Marginal]

Originally posted by white belt
Zepp,

How do you know a block is "solid" if there is no contact? I have blasted through seemingly solid blocks in contact sparring. Are you doing that new math I've heard about?


Since I have a horrible time detecting your humor, I'll answer somewhat seriously. Strikes are thrown not to penetrate the target, not to avoid making contact with a block. They're not thrown badly or slowly under good no/light contact situations. ;)

(I end up with enough bruises from the effort at least...)

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by Zepp
I study Tae Kwon Do under the World Tae Kwon Do Association. We actually do non-contact sparring, similar to some Karate styles. We actually have several people in our class that have practiced full contact sparring under the the WTF or in kickboxing, and they prefer our style because it seems more practical to them.

In class, we don't worry so much about keeping track of points, but points are effectively determined by whether or not a technique came close enough to a target (as in millimeters), wasn't blocked or checked, and obviously had enough power behind it to stun someone or break a bone. Needless to say, getting an actual "score" isn't made easy.

I don't mean to say that non-contact sparring is superior than full-contact, but it has its advantages. For one thing, without wearing pads, you certainly learn to throw good, solid blocks- as opposed to letting the pads soak it up for you.

-Zepp

Sure, non-contact sparring is good for working on your various offensive and defensive techniques without getting hurt, (just like poomse), and WTF rules sparring is good for spreading the sporting aspect of our art. But, these don't represent the real world. And I accept that as one of the features of modern TKD. In addition, if I can expand on this a little further, I think it's one of the reasons why some of the other style MA practitioners have little respect for our Art.

We (and not speaking for other organizations) are so sport oriented. And, we also have our quick belt promotions and the expectation to move up the MA ladder so rapidly. BB in 2 years! :shrug:

Unfortunately, there are some TKD BBs who don't really deserve their rank because they did rise up through the easy thread-mill, crank them out dojangs. However, not all of us came up that way. As a WTF affiliated practitioner and occassional tourney competitor, I do enjoy the competitive full contact sporting aspect, but, more importantly I prefer the traditional self-defensive components of traditional military TKD. I would just like my Art to be more practical and reflective of the real life possible encounters and dangers where you're forced to fully react.

If one is ever caught in a real life threatening encounter there are simply no rules, and non-contact rules are certainly non-existent. Excuse my indulgence, this is just my take... :asian:

[fissure]

Are you serious? BB in two yrs?? Do you actually know of such "schools", or is it one of those, " you know what I heard" kinnda things?

[white belt]

Marginal,

Your not having a terrible time detecting my humor. You are having a time detecting my TERRIBLE humor. :) Go check out the BS I made up over at the "More no touch KOs" thread. I've sunk pretty low over there and I think I have some people wondering if I am serious. :)

Zepp,

My "Tastes great/less filling" stance is not to say that no contact is not useful. It is. If I am practicing self defense throat strikes, no contact is essential. During strikes to generally less mortal areas, I must see/feel some contact. I have had and seen sparring matches where a kick or punch were brought to full extension, with no more reach, and come up short by an inch or two. The sparring partner says "good shot" thinking that extra control/caution was being used when in actuality contact could not have been made. Sometimes the guy executing the strike gets into the habit of pulling short at full extension on purpose. This causes unrealistic "distancing development" and the ability to penetrate a target when needed is not being realistically developed. I know.....what about the self defense throat strikes then! In that case the motion is stopped at the end of the movement and both parties can readily see the slack in the joint of the striking arm showing contact was inevitable if follow through was initiated. A continuous sparring match on the other hand would not have those pauses after strikes to check distance and the slack of the striking limb or the rotation left in the attacking stance. You could both be pawing air for two minutes and neither one might know what moves were street useable and what were not! If you are doing one and three step sparring then my argument would not be applicable due to the "stop and check" available. Continuous free sparring is different. I have kids coming to my school brought by DISGRUNTLED parents. They get some "no contact free sparring" from one of the local "McDojangs" and their ability to judge distance is so warped, that at first they can't make contact in free sparring even when the opportunity is presented. The parents are seeing false confidence being nurtured at that facility/ies. They then switch to me. It takes work to instill proper timing and judgement back into their motor skills. That isn't good. I'm not saying proper development can't be had with no contact, but the deck is stacked against people when trying.

Comments?
white belt

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by fissure
Do you actually know of such "schools", or is it one of those, " you know what I heard" kinnda things?

Unfortunately yes! Those type of guys wouldn't make a good green belt. However I knew of one person that trained 6 hrs. a day and he was phenominal. He moved through the belts very quickly but his skill level was awesome. So it can actually work both ways but not much usually for the good.

[Zepp]

cali_tkdbruin, jfarnsworth, and white belt,

I completely agree with you about the problem of so many McDojangs existing in TKD. I think it's just the inevitable fate of "the most widely practiced martial art in the world."

About judging distance, that's the responsibilty of the instructor to make sure that the students actually have a clue. In the WTA, we spar continuously, and we're not supposed to keep any slack in our arm or leg on a strike (unless your too close to get a full extension). And I'm told that according to most tournament rules in our organization, getting a "score" has to be pretty obvious.

I think the best rule to abide by for training purposes is: "if you think you may have hit, you didn't; if you think you might have blocked it in time, you didn't either."

As far as non-contact vs. contact sparring overall, I think the best training combination is to do both. I have trained in full-contact sparring as well, and I've found that many people from other styles who were supposed to be at my same level couldn't match me for control or intensity. I'm not trying to brag (well, maybe I am a little), but I attribute that our style.