The Secrets ...............

[jus_dann]

LETTING THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG...
So arts with secrets, do they all have them? Why? Why not?
I can see not giving away too much too quickly, choosing the right people,but some people feel it nessesary to go to the grave as the "baddest"
Dont arts die that way? or at least water down? Once you are considered family to your instructor, should he still hold back? If you share the wealth, people steal, rename, claim and call it thier own.. Is there middle ground? If so where? Myself, training with so many people, I find those who hold back from me just because I cross train in contrast, I've found those who treat me like family and share till the table is full..Tell me your thoughts and experinces...

[Phoenix44]

I have no problem with holding back because the student is just not ready for it. But holding back for the purpose of, well, just holding back? Please...

[Drac]

That question has been around for years and NO ONE has found the answer..As far as an Instructor withholding information, I believe that an Instructor will give you whatever information he has when he believes that YOU are ready..

[Kacey]

There are things I don't teach my students because they are not ready for it - mentally, physically, or both - but once a student is ready, they learn. "Deathbed secrets" are the way things are lost - and why spend a lifetime learning something so that it dies with you? On the other hand, why teach students something before they can understand it? Balance is the key.

[jus_dann]

well put Kacey

[Touch Of Death]

LETTING THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG...
So arts with secrets, do they all have them? Why? Why not?
I can see not giving away too much too quickly, choosing the right people,but some people feel it nessesary to go to the grave as the "baddest"
Dont arts die that way? or at least water down? Once you are considered family to your instructor, should he still hold back? If you share the wealth, people steal, rename, claim and call it thier own.. Is there middle ground? If so where? Myself, training with so many people, I find those who hold back from me just because I cross train in contrast, I've found those who treat me like family and share till the table is full..Tell me your thoughts and experinces...I think one of the secrets is that a lower ranked student does not get taught blackbelt material when they get taught blackbelt material. Without the knowledge that built up to it, "its a castle made of saaaaaand"... oh sorry.:mst:
Sean

[searcher]

That question has been around for years and NO ONE has found the answer..As far as an Instructor withholding information, I believe that an Instructor will give you whatever information he has when he believes that YOU are ready..


There are things I don't teach my students because they are not ready for it - mentally, physically, or both - but once a student is ready, they learn. "Deathbed secrets" are the way things are lost - and why spend a lifetime learning something so that it dies with you? On the other hand, why teach students something before they can understand it? Balance is the key.


Both great pieces of information. It is the same for most instructors. We give the students information as they are ready for it. Some things will never get transmitted to a student because they will never be ready.

[tshadowchaser]

I believe that an Instructor will give you whatever information he has when he believes that YOU are ready..


if you ask you may never get the answere but if you show your ready you may well get it without asking

[morph4me]

The only secrets I know of are patience, persistance and practice, everything else comes from those.

[MJS]

LETTING THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG...
So arts with secrets, do they all have them? Why? Why not?
I can see not giving away too much too quickly, choosing the right people,but some people feel it nessesary to go to the grave as the "baddest"
Dont arts die that way? or at least water down? Once you are considered family to your instructor, should he still hold back? If you share the wealth, people steal, rename, claim and call it thier own.. Is there middle ground? If so where? Myself, training with so many people, I find those who hold back from me just because I cross train in contrast, I've found those who treat me like family and share till the table is full..Tell me your thoughts and experinces...

Many times, I think that the only 'secrets' are the ones that we can't figure out for ourselves. Sometimes, the teacher gives us just enough, and its up to us to find the rest. Is this fair? Well, it keeps you on your toes, and makes you think and really look deeper into the material.

Now, there may be instances when things are in fact really held back for a purpose, ie: keeping it in the family, such as the Gracies.

I think that they get watered down for just this reason...people assume that whats being taught is the end all be all or the absolute correct way, and run with it, even at the expense of watering down. Are they really looking deeper though, as I said above?

Mike

[thardey]

Many "secrets" aren't really secrets, they're just ideas that don't make sense until you have the proper foundation laid. If you try to make sense of them, without understanding, you mis-apply them and hurt yourself.

I don't know how many times I've been told a "secret" that didn't mean anything to me, until one day, the "secret" made sense. Then it became very powerful. (In MA, fencing, horse riding, math, science, religion, etc.)

Take European fencing, for instance. The secrets of fencing are balance, footwork, off-line movement, half-beat timing, leverage, and reading your opponent.

There it is! The secrets!

But that doesn't mean anything, unless you know how to apply those secrets. In Europe, it was customary for fencing instructors to keep their teaching hidden, while some promised "hidden techniques" that were sure to defeat your opponent. (Sound familiar?) But that was just a marketing gimmick. The really successful masters had no problem demonstrating their techniques in a tournament, and testing it against other masters. That was their best advertisement.

The secret is, there is no secret.

[Shotochem]

Hi All,

IMHO, there are no secrets. Only more understanding over time with experience and training.

A newbie sees a block as a block. Then it becomes a strike. Then a break. Then a throw then you block strike, counter and evade at the same time. It's all just a natural progression.

Now when you are truly ready I will teach you the secrets of the "Shotochem wind of death"!!!! :fart:

-Marc-

[Bigshadow]

LETTING THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG...
So arts with secrets, do they all have them? Why? Why not?
I can see not giving away too much too quickly, choosing the right people,but some people feel it nessesary to go to the grave as the "baddest"
Dont arts die that way? or at least water down? Once you are considered family to your instructor, should he still hold back? If you share the wealth, people steal, rename, claim and call it thier own.. Is there middle ground? If so where? Myself, training with so many people, I find those who hold back from me just because I cross train in contrast, I've found those who treat me like family and share till the table is full..Tell me your thoughts and experinces...

I don't think secrets are things that are handed over like a set of keys to a new car. I believe secrets are discovered through training and nobody can actually give them to you. You discover them on your own with guidance from your instructor. Much like finding the pirates chest (YAAARRRR!) from reading the clues. In truth you won't find those secrets until you are ready for them. They will remain illusive until you are ready, if not, they will forever be secret from you.

[Danny T]

LETTING THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG...
So arts with secrets, do they all have them? Why? Why not?
I can see not giving away too much too quickly, choosing the right people,but some people feel it nessesary to go to the grave as the "baddest"
Dont arts die that way? or at least water down? Once you are considered family to your instructor, should he still hold back? If you share the wealth, people steal, rename, claim and call it thier own.. Is there middle ground? If so where? Myself, training with so many people, I find those who hold back from me just because I cross train in contrast, I've found those who treat me like family and share till the table is full..Tell me your thoughts and experinces...

There are no secrets.
They are where they have always been. Hidden in plain view.

[Em MacIntosh]

Always make the right move, be faster and more accurate than your opponent and don't ever get hit. Adhere to these secrets and no one will be able to beat you. :D

[thardey]

don't ever get hit.


Alright, you sold me, where do I sign up to learn that?

[still learning]

Hello, If you have a secret? and you tell one person? is it still a secret? , How many people can you tell before it is NOT a secret? UM?

Here we go again about some martial arts has a secret to it art. Their secret is so deadly....only the dead knows them.

Claiming a secret is a great SELLING Tool.

White belt material and up "is consider black belt training." ..we learn in steps because it is easier to teach that way.

The way you teach a white belt to punch and kick? Is it different ? "from a black belt punching and kicking?"

We don't teach white belts to punch and kick like a white belt? We teach them how to punch and kick like a black belt!!!!!!!!

There is NO secrets in the martial arts! Only thing that is secret is what you are withholding from your students. Example: Learning to run away is the best self-defense.....ssssshhhhhh...No tell anyone this SECRET!

Secret is also a great deodorant...try my secrets...........Aloha

[foot2face]

That question has been around for years and NO ONE has found the answer..As far as an Instructor withholding information, I believe that an Instructor will give you whatever information he has when he believes that YOU are ready..

This was exactly my experience.

I was taught with what I guess could be called the “onion method”. Where you learn something, seemingly in its entirety (getting the whole onion), but later realize that your understanding is superficial with the true meaning contained deeper within, so you peel off layer-by-layer gaining deeper insight until you reach the core and the true meaning.

A simple example of this would be the inside block. I was taught to rotate towards my blocking arm, placing my fist at my ear and pointing my elbow up and back, the fist of my non-blocking arm in the armpit of the blocking arm with the elbow pointing forward. You then rotate in the opposite direction, swinging your blocking arm inward with your fist ending in line with your chin. There your have it, the inside block. I later learned that it was not so much a block as it was a strike that can be used defensively as well as offensively. I was later told that I didn’t have to use just a hammer fist while striking; I could use a knife hand strike for instance. Later on, it was explained that the inside block is the foundation for teaching the mechanics of an arcing blow with inward waist rotation, the trajectory didn’t have to go straight across (as in the inside block) but go straight down and every angle in-between. So, what starts off as a basic defensive maneuver ends up as a wide variety of techniques.
I believe such a teaching method dose have an element of secrecy to it, keeping a deeper understanding of the system away from those who are not ready or do not deserve it, attempting to preserve the integrity of the art. In my opinion, this often back fires with many people claming to be proficient in a system with years of experience but in actuality they only have a shallow understanding.

[morph4me]

I was taught all the secrets of my art as a white belt, I learned some of the secrets of my art after years of training, I'll probably learn more after a few more years and maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll know them all before I'm too old to train.

[Christina05]

That question has been around for years and NO ONE has found the answer..As far as an Instructor withholding information, I believe that an Instructor will give you whatever information he has when he believes that YOU are ready..

I absolutely agree

[still learning]

Hello, The word Secrets means to hide something. NO instructor should hide anything in there teachings.

Is there such a thing as secret technique? Only taught to those who are ready or black belt? "UM"

I have a secret technique? ...but if I show you? It will not be a secret?
(running away is good thing to learn) the secret is learning when to run?

OK? The secret is too run before....not after.

Aloha,

PS: A book on "All MY Secrets Techniqies"...will be coming out soon. Where can you buy it? .....is being kept a secret!

[Laurentkd]

Sometimes in class my instructor says:
"gather in close, I am going to give you the secret of awesome martial arts power"
and everyone (kids and adults) run over with wide eyes
he then looks over his shoulder (as if to look for someone else listening in) and says...

"practice. practice. practice."

If a student looks disappointed it tells you something about them
If a student grins and looks excited it tells you something else

[Drac]

Ya want secrets??? Pick up a copy of Black Belt..Every month some individual is selling secrets to some formally secret discipline..

[Kacey]

Hello, The word Secrets means to hide something. NO instructor should hide anything in there teachings.

Is there such a thing as secret technique? Only taught to those who are ready or black belt? "UM"

When I first started instructing, I told my students everything I knew from the day they started... which overloaded them so thoroughly that many of them left. Now, I instruct in a sequence, a predetermined order, and give new concepts to students as quickly as they are ready for them. Is this keeping secrets? Not by the definition you're using... but perhaps by this one (http://m-w.com/dictionary/secret):


1 a : kept from knowledge or view : HIDDEN (http://m-w.com/dictionary/hidden) b : marked by the habit of discretion : CLOSEMOUTHED (http://m-w.com/dictionary/closemouthed) c : working with hidden aims or methods : UNDERCOVER (http://m-w.com/dictionary/undercover) <a secret agent> d : not acknowledged : UNAVOWED (http://m-w.com/dictionary/unavowed) <a secret bride> e : conducted in secret <a secret trial>

Especially parts b and c; maybe a as well... and I don't see any problem with it. I see it as being akin to what I do when I teach math: I teach counting before I teach addition, I teach addition before I teach multiplication, I teach operations with whole numbers before I teach operations with decimals or fractions - is that keeping secrets? No - it's giving students a foundation in the basics that they can build on before giving them more detailed and/or complex concepts. I teach reading the same way: first students learn basic sound/letter correspondence, then short words, easy sentences, then longer words and more complex sentences, and so on. If I gave students calculus or an encyclopedia to read from day one, how many would be successful? But by the above argument - that withholding any information is keeping secrets - then I am keeping secrets from my math and reading students.

When I teach TKD, I teach stances before I teach kicks, to give students a base from which to kick; I teach techniques individually and in combinations in line drills before I teach patterns - and I see this the same way, that I am giving the students the basics they need to learn more. IMO, that's not keeping secrets - it's good instructional practice, to give students the basics on which to build, and then continue to add more information as they go. The basic stances and techniques are analogous to the letters; the small combinations of techniques in line drills are analogous to short words; patterns are long sentences (at the beginning) and paragraphs as they get more difficult. Am I keeping secrets from them? I really don't think so - I'm just taking them through the information in a reasonable progression.

[Sensei Payne]

the only secrets that are locked within a Martial Art style, are the secrets that we keep from ourselves.

[still learning]

the only secrets that are locked within a Martial Art style, are the secrets that we keep from ourselves.

Hello, Great point here! "Glad you share this thought "..............Aloha