Gina Carano!

[Hand Sword]

Gina is still undefeated by tapping out (her very 1st submission) Tonya Evinger tonight. Tonya said she would rather make out with Gina than fight her. She said she used to beat up boys and out wrestled them in school. She said no girl has ever rocked her. She was bigger and stronger than Gina but............Oh Well!


WELL DONE GINA!!!!!!!!!!! :-partyon:

[Cruentus]

Any links to fight clips or pics?

[PictonMA]

http://www.mmatko.com/gina-carano-vs-tonya-evinger-fight-video-from-elite-xc-uprising/

[rutherford]

Gina teaches at Randy Couture's gym. Definitely a competitor to watch.

[tntma12]

I saw that fight, very well done!!

[Tez3]

For the third time though Gina hadn't made the weight for the weigh in. she was reported to have been looking very weak at her weigh in and was still over. For her fight with Rosi Sexton she was well over but Rosi wasn't given the option of saying she wouldn't fight as she then would have had no purse or expenses leaving her well out of pocket as she'd flown to America for the fight. Gina needs to get this sorted as she's considered the most unprofessional of the female fighters.

[Hand Sword]

No sour grapes by the vanquished or friends of the vanquished. She's 4 and 0, don't like it? Beat her! It's that simple. This is the fight game, no whining, just get in there and do it! That said, Having nearly passed out at the weigh in, I agree she should fight at a higher weight. Having to cut weight constantly is dangerous and very unhealthy in the long run.

As to Unprofessional......well I disagree completely. Gina works as hard as any other fighter out there. Her trainers, especially her current one, would not allow any slacking off or unprofessional attempts.

Her skills are legit, I've been following her, and she IS improving. Only hard work will do that.

In all honesty if a fighter is over then the fight is cancelled. If the fight happened, then both made weight. The commissions won't allow what you are accusing. Now fight day....that's something different. After weight is made, it's very common to see that fighter come in heavier, having replaced the water weight lost and eating like a horse.

[rutherford]

In all honesty if a fighter is over then the fight is cancelled. If the fight happened, then both made weight. The commissions won't allow what you are accusing. Now fight day....that's something different. After weight is made, it's very common to see that fighter come in heavier, having replaced the water weight lost and eating like a horse.

It's public knowledge that she weighed in at 141.1 for a 140 event. There's a 1 pound allowance, and they explained the final tenth of a pound as the weight of her clothing.

[PictonMA]

In all honesty if a fighter is over then the fight is cancelled. If the fight happened, then both made weight. The commissions won't allow what you are accusing.

Not true.

[Hand Sword]

OK Ok Excuuuuuuuuse me! If we're going to get down to a lousy pound or so for a lousy argument on the part of all of you, I'm sorry for not being truly accurate in my wording. There is an allowance in all weights of being over to some degree. I'm sure a lousy pound falls in that range. It's not like she was ten pounds over. For weights that are really over the fight will not be allowed by the commissions. Besides there were options for the "aggrieved" parties to opt out, excuses or not. They didn't. They fought, They lost! End of arguments. Fair fights, girl to girl, fist to fist etc.. At least have respect for that.

This arguing is pointless! Again, As someone with a no BS attitude and mindset, I say, if you don't like Gina as a fighter--So be it. Don't whine with triffling little excuses. She goes in and "woman's up" with all comers and has beaten all comers thus far. She is legit! Again, don't like it? Woman up and face her!

The fighters don't make excuses! So don't do it on their behalf. It's the fight game! Put up or shut up. Do or don't.

[Tez3]

Sour grapes? No, I've been around the fight game too long to be naive enough to believe that things aren't 'sorted' by promoters. Weigh-ins are commonly arranged to suit. It was a pound this time but has been a lot more before. However this fight was a catchweight (no weight allowance) at 140 not 141lb, this was scheduled to be at 135lbs but Gina couldn't make the weight. She has never fought under 140lbs.
Her opponents weights were:-
Letitia Pestrova 120
Rosi Sexton 125
Julie Kedzie 135
Tonya Evevinger 135

I'm not getting at her for getting in and fighting, it's her mangement that are to blame here, For her health as much as anything she should be fighting at a higher weight. Would I fight her? Damn right I would, at catchweight as I'm heavier.

[rutherford]

Don't whine with triffling little excuses. She goes in and "woman's up" with all comers and has beaten all comers thus far. She is legit! Again, don't like it? Woman up and face her!

The fighters don't make excuses! So don't do it on their behalf. It's the fight game! Put up or shut up. Do or don't.

Nobody's making any argument, certainly not one to justify your attitude.

We're not here to trash talk anybody, certainly not a professional fighter for whom heart is always going to be the most important attribute. They all get respect from me.

What weight a fighter fights at, its health affects, and the impact on their performance and career longevity are valid topics. And ones I think need more scrutiny.

But if you want this to just be a "Wow, she's so great!" sort of thread, we can do that too. I suggest the Maxim picture of Gina as a good addition to such a thread, as it's certainly an attractive picture. But it'd be terrible if that's the best thread we could come up with.

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Brian R. VanCise
-MartialTalk Super Moderator-

[Hand Sword]

First, I agree with her fighting at a higher weight. I already said that above. I don't think anyone should have to cut weight to make a fight, if they're already in shape. It's definitely not healthy for anyone to do that, and very dangerous.

Next, could, would, should with a damb right too! I admire the attitude! How about going in and Doing it? I look forward to seeing the match.

3rd. All fights can be opted out of. Bottom line all of your friends or the people named went in and fought! Irregardless of excuses, and for that I admire all of them. Also, none of them made excuses after. Don't anyone here do it for them. Again this is the fighting forum. If you do it, you do it with no excuses.

Which goes to you Rutherford. This was not a "she's great thread". It was a congratulatory thread to a fellow fighter, as others get on here. As for the Maxim thing, I strongly detest that! It takes away from all those who are fighting against that battle, and trying to be taken seriously. That crap has no place in these forums IMHO. It saddens me that she did that.
If anyone wanted to detract anything about Mrs. Carano or her abilities as being unprofessional or whatever other triffling arguments virtual fighters want to make behind a screen..could've been done on another thread.

[Tez3]

Handsword, how involved in the MMA world are you? Are you a fighter or a promoter or a coach? You have totally missed the point of my posts, I'm not making excuses for the other fighters, I'm pointing out that while Gina has got the guts to get in and fight she is doing herself no favours by this constant not making weight. The other fighters to be honest have signed contracts which they sign in good faith assuming that both sides will make the weight agreed. To break that contract is costly and damaging and the girls are game.
Virtual fighter? I don't insult your martial arts please don't insult mine. If you want to make this personal go ahead but I shan't be here arguing with you. If you can't look at things fairly I'll find a forum where they can.

[Andrew Green]

The fighters don't make excuses! So don't do it on their behalf. It's the fight game!


Fighters are not just fighters, they are performers, and employees.

They are judged on more then their ability to fight, but also their professionalism, conduct and ability to put on a show.

A fighter that is unable to make the weight they agreed to fight at has broken their contract. It's unfair to the other fighter and the promoters, regardless of how good a fighter is in the ring they need to remain professional. If she cannot make the weight she wants to fight at, she needs to move up a weight class.

I really don't see the point in getting overly defensive here, she is a performer. She will have fans, and people that dislike her, it's part of the game. When Tito was on top of the LHW class in the UFC there where a lot of people that said negative things about him, it was part of his job.

If you want to become a professional athlete you got to be ready for people to say negative things about you. If she cannot make weight consistently, fans will pick up on that. She can either move up, or suck it up and take the internet beatings and hope promoters don't get to annoyed with her that they stop giving her fights.

But professional athletes are performers, they put on a show, and they will be criticized by the masses, it's part of there job.

[Brian R. VanCise]

If I were having a fighter fight against her I would advise a clause that say's she has to make weight. If she fails then she forefits 25% of her purse immediately to her opponent. Fixes the problem easily. (money talks) Nor would I have a fighter fight her without that clause.

[Tez3]

In North America there must be hundreds if not actually thousands of male MMA fighters, in geographical Europe the same is true but if you take both areas together when counting female fighters there are literally only a handful. This makes it an uphill struggle to promote women's fights, to persuade promoters to take female fights and to market the female fighters we do have.

MMA is a big business now growing outside America at a tremendous rate, more promotions are turning up every day, someof course will fall by the wayside when they realise it's not easy money but a good many will stay and to have womens fights accepted as part and parcel of these shows we need to do several things.

We need to show that female fighters are up for fighting and don't demand special privileges. We have to show that we can entertain the audience with skill and aggression. I've seen a good amny, actually far too many male fights that were poor, boring and really were a waste of time but because they were male no one said anything. Every female fight has to be that bit better because if not people will say "oh women can't fight" Very unfair but women will tell you that's how it is in many jobs.
The promoting of female fighters has to be seen as more than "oh she's a babe!" Male fighters aren't judged on their looks so why should females? How many male watchers of female fights can honestly say they didn't think first about how the fighter looked?

I have made no excuses for any fighter nor have I slagged Gina off. The latest is that she is blaming her period for being overweight. this again will give rise to more reasons why women should not fight.

http://mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=1130643&FID=1&pc=68

Have a read and see what we have to put up with. How the hell can we ever be taken seriously as fighters when this happens?
of course Gina has guts for getting in there and fighting but can you honsetly say that if she were a man things wouldn't have been different?

I agree with binding contracts but the problem is that with so few female fighters it's hard to refuse a fight when offered and to be honest promoters of female fighters tend to try to get any fights they can. If they turn one down that could be it literally for years. I know of only two other females that could fight Gina, both from Europe. We face the women fighting each other half a dozen times with no new fighters coming in. that serves no one any good.I have a felame semi pro that has only fought once in two years because there is no once else her weight. The girl she fought is still looking for fights and has been doing grappling in the meantime, she did well in Turkey in the Worlds but she wants MMA fights. We can't affird to travel all across Europe and America to fight. the money simply isn't there for female fighters and won't be until we get more female fights. Catch 22.
Perhaps you will see my concerns as more than just making excuses for fighters who lost to Gina which I wasn't, we are working our socks off to present female fighters as being up to the job, as equal to the men. Gina's management are promoting her as a 'babe' and breaking all the rules of professionalism. This does immense harm except to them of course, they make the money.

[DavidCC]

Male fighters aren't judged on their looks

Well, actually, this IS how my wife chooses which fighter she will cheer for...

[Tez3]

Well, actually, this IS how my wife chooses which fighter she will cheer for...

That's fine because whichever fighter she chooses will still be taken seriously by men. How would she feel though if she were chosen for a job/career by her looks? "well miss, I'm afraid you can't be taken seriously as a teacher/nurse/doctor/police officer etc etc because we don't think you're good looking enough"

[Tez3]

If I were having a fighter fight against her I would advise a clause that say's she has to make weight. If she fails then she forefits 25% of her purse immediately to her opponent. Fixes the problem easily. (money talks) Nor would I have a fighter fight her without that clause.


There would however be a problem when the management and the promoter are the same people. Rules are far easier to change then and it puts people over a barrel.

[theletch1]

That's fine because whichever fighter she chooses will still be taken seriously by men. How would she feel though if she were chosen for a job/career by her looks? "well miss, I'm afraid you can't be taken seriously as a teacher/nurse/doctor/police officer etc etc because we don't think you're good looking enough"
You might be unpleasantly surprised at how big a role looks have in what happens in day to day life on both sides of the fence. Even if it's subconscious, we judge people by the way they look...men and women alike. I have no argument at all with you that it's a seriously uphill battle to promote womens MMA. We've had several discussions recently on the subject and I have been pleasantly surprised at how honest some of the guys have been regarding their like/dislike of the idea. Me? I'm all for it as I've said before. (Yay, Rosi!:ultracool).
Andrew Green made an excellent point that Pro fighters are much more than just fighters. You must honor your contract. You must behave in such a way as to draw people to the spectacle of the fight. Once you accept the pro monacre and get to the top of your field you can figure on a down the middle split of those that are rabid fans and those that are rabid detractors. No matter how professional any of the fighters, male or female are there will be those that are uneducated in the martial arts that will have different criteria for what makes someone fan worthy.

[Andrew Green]

Male fighters are judged on there looks as well, particullarly by female viewers.

Pro wrestling is a pretty clear example of male athletes / performers being judged largely on there appearance.

As soon as your paycheque starts coming from people that pay too watch you do something, then appearance is going to be a factor. Especially with a North American audience. (Compare British vs US sit coms: British ones are actually funny, but the US ones have all the pretty people)

[DavidCC]

That's fine because whichever fighter she chooses will still be taken seriously by men.

I'm not sure what's wrong with that statement. But I think something is in fact wrong with it.

[Tez3]

I'm not sure what's wrong with that statement. But I think something is in fact wrong with it.


Well I'm trying to be PC here and not just assume you mean she picks the male fighters by looks! She could well pick females! If she chooses a male fighter for his looks alone it doesn't affect the fighters career does it? If female fighters are asked to fight by the male promoters on their shows merely because they are decorative some may have no careers at all! Female fighters want to be taken seriously for their fighting abilities not there looks. Of course there will be people who will judge their looks as well but as long as they also judge their fighting we will at least be half way there and on a par with the men!

The fighters may be entertainers to a certain extent but no more or less than other female athletes. America for example has a great many women athletes, runners, tri-athletes, swimmers, tennis players etc and while being good looking helps their careers outside their sport it doesn't help them perform or play better. You don't chose your Olympic track team beacause they look pretty but because they beat all the others and have the fastest times. If the winner's management however market them right they make a lot of money but looks don't help them win the medals in the first place.

Pro wrestling is a bone of contention for all in the MMA world, we are trying very hard to avoid any comparision to it. One of the problems we have with the local councils (who licence fight nights here) is persuading them that MMA fighters are athletes and the fights are skilful, honest and everything is above board. We need every one to be above board ... or at the very least appear to be. I'm not naive enough to think that worked fights and other irregularities don't happen. Female fighters are a rarity and attract attention and we need them to be professional, can you imagine the Williams sisters complaining about their periods to the press?

[DavidCC]

Well I'm trying to be PC here and not just assume you mean she picks the male fighters by looks!

Oh, she totally picks only on looks. but that is ok because she is only a fan (and barely that!) not a fight promoter.

But anyway, not making weight, fight after fight, is unprofessional, no matter the gender.

-D

[Andrew Green]

Oh, she totally picks only on looks. but that is ok because she is only a fan (and barely that!) not a fight promoter.


Well, promoters are likely most motivated to put on a show that people will pay to see, and if most of the people that might pay want to see good looking fighters, then wouldn't it make sense for the promoter to try and book good looking fighters?

Happens in other sports as well, Anna Kournikova was not the best Tennis player, but she probably got the most attention and sold the most tickets.

I think the same principal effects male fighters as well, there are some fighters that fans just don't want to see fight, no matter how good they are. Tim Sylvia had the UFC HW belt, yet I'm pretty sure Tank Abbott made more per fight then he did, and probably got more hype leading up to it. Ken Shamrock defiantly got more hype for his come back, and no one thought he had any chance at beating Tito by the time there 3rd fight came around. And how much did Royce Gracie get to get beat by Matt Hughes? Hughes made a fraction of that, but it was Royce that the fans wanted to see back in the ring.

Professional sports are not just about who is best, but about who can sell the most tickets.

[Tez3]

Well I have to say honestly that we never pick fighters on looks! (we could well be short of fighters if we did!) We advertise when our next show will be and fighters who are interested contact us and we match then up, simple as that. No other promotion here picks for looks either, they would be laughed out of the country! What sells tickets is local fighters, people don't necessarily want to even see the big names but they love local fighters. We are at a different stage here and the UFC isn't considered as interesting as Cage Rage, Cagewarriors or the FX shows because American fighters don't interest the Brits as much and apart from maybe Mike Bisping it's the same the other way,that's natural. The audiences here are very knowledgable and wouldn't be at all chuffed to have 'pretty' fighters on shows! Women's fights when we can get one are accepted and treated the same as men's fights, that's by everyone. it's human nature to apprectiate good looks but the female fighters are certainly admire for their fighting abilities. There's no promoter here that would match a female fight just on looks, it wouldn't work. I have to add that gina wouldn't be matched here as her unprofessionalism has been noted by the promoters and commented on unfavourably.

I think MMA is probably far more commercial in the States than here, we certainly don't have it as a big business and we have few fighters, I can think of maybe 3 or 4 only, who make their living fighting. We have 6 women fighting pro rules and 11 who fight either amateur or semi pro. We have one junior.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Well I have to say honestly that we never pick fighters on looks! (we could well be short of fighters if we did!) We advertise when our next show will be and fighters who are interested contact us and we match then up, simple as that. No other promotion here picks for looks either, they would be laughed out of the country! What sells tickets is local fighters, people don't necessarily want to even see the big names but they love local fighters. We are at a different stage here and the UFC isn't considered as interesting as Cage Rage, Cagewarriors or the FX shows because American fighters don't interest the Brits as much and apart from maybe Mike Bisping it's the same the other way,that's natural. The audiences here are very knowledgable and wouldn't be at all chuffed to have 'pretty' fighters on shows! Women's fights when we can get one are accepted and treated the same as men's fights, that's by everyone. it's human nature to apprectiate good looks but the female fighters are certainly admire for their fighting abilities. There's no promoter here that would match a female fight just on looks, it wouldn't work. I have to add that gina wouldn't be matched here as her unprofessionalism has been noted by the promoters and commented on unfavourably.

I think MMA is probably far more commercial in the States than here, we certainly don't have it as a big business and we have few fighters, I can think of maybe 3 or 4 only, who make their living fighting. We have 6 women fighting pro rules and 11 who fight either amateur or semi pro. We have one junior.

Tez this is why the UFC is coming to the UK more and more. It simply is a ripe market ready and built for the UFC to invade. That is why the UFC tickets are more expensive and they also bring in local UK fighters (all of quality) as well. They also pay more so local events simply cannot compete in that venue.

As to looks well they always matter in one way or another and that is a fact of life. Still what is on the inside is always more important than looks in the long run. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif (yet looks and a great spirit are awesome http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif)

[Tez3]

We're not stupid and the UFC isn't making the impact here that perhaps it wishes! Far from wiping the smaller shows out they are doing great business on the back of the UFC who aren't bringing in that many local fighters, the last show in London had just Bisping and Terry Etim. Jess Liaudin is French. The 'big name' Crocop fight was a disappointment. for most in the UK the UFC is something to watch on the TV either that on on pirated DVDs! We can't wait to see if they are going to have one in Newcastle, our shows will be rocking from that lol!

This is second try for UFC in the UK, the last invasion didn't go too well lol! We think they may only have one or two more shows then move on to Europe. Not France though where MMA fights are illegal, that's why Jess fights in the UK. I'm not knocking UFC, we are doing well partly becuase of it but we are used to Cage Rage and Cage Warriors which are more accessible and more fun.

[Tez3]

This is the showcase for British fighters, Cage Rage tomorrow night. And yes they all made weight!! it is shown on Sky TV but i don't have satellite so can't tell you when etc. American interest will be in Chris Brennan and Pierre Guillet. Jean Silva has fought in Pride and Mark Weir of course did one of the fastest KOs on UFC. Vitor Belfort is well known to BJJ and MMA fans, his instructional DVDs are very good btw. Alex Reid is very good looking so they say, he's also an actor but I can't say any of these were matched for their looks lmao! he presented his opponent today at the weigh in with a bottle of baby oil........

Fightcard.

Gary Turner 102kg (224.8lbs) vs Julius Francis 133 kg (293.1 lbs)
Vitor Belfort 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs James Zikic 90 kg (198.3lbs)
Mark Weir 76.2 kg (167.9lbs) vs Paul Daley 77.3 kg (170.3lbs)
Jean Silva 71 kg (156.4lbs) vs Chris Brennan 70 kg (154.2lbs)
Mustapha Al-Turk 109 kg ( 240.2lbs) vs Tengiz Tedoradze 110 kg ( 242.4lbs)
Xavier Foupa-Pokam 83.9 kg (184.9lbs) vs Pierre Guillet 83.9 kg (184.9lbs)
Matt Ewin 83.5 kg (184lbs) vs Alex Reid 82.5 kg (181.8lbs)
Domonic Ostich 109.5 kg (241.3lbs) vs Neil Grove 132 kg ( 290.9lbs)
Roman Webber 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs Ed Smith 91 kg (200.5lbs)
Ch'e Mills 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Ross Mason 77.1 kg (169.9lbs)
Lee Doski 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Jason Barrett 76.5kg ( 168.6lbs)


http://www.teamgaryturner.com/index.php

I know the thread has gone a long way from Gina but the discussion has turned to professionism in MMA. All the guys above are pro fighters, only a couple make their all their living from fighting though and they all weigh in correctly, that's how you get taken seriously.

[Brian R. VanCise]

We're not stupid and the UFC isn't making the impact here that perhaps it wishes! Far from wiping the smaller shows out they are doing great business on the back of the UFC who aren't bringing in that many local fighters, the last show in London had just Bisping and Terry Etim. Jess Liaudin is French. The 'big name' Crocop fight was a disappointment. for most in the UK the UFC is something to watch on the TV either that on on pirated DVDs! We can't wait to see if they are going to have one in Newcastle, our shows will be rocking from that lol!

This is second try for UFC in the UK, the last invasion didn't go too well lol! We think they may only have one or two more shows then move on to Europe. Not France though where MMA fights are illegal, that's why Jess fights in the UK. I'm not knocking UFC, we are doing well partly becuase of it but we are used to Cage Rage and Cage Warriors which are more accessible and more fun.

Having the UFC in England will only help the smaller shows. Far from driving them out of business it will increase their business provided they all respect one another and do not file frivilous lawsuits. A mark on the love of mma in England is that the UFC is there and will be continuing on. From my understanding the ratings and take in from the last UFC in the UK was good and that they were happy with that aspect of their promotion. So I would not look at the UFC as the big boogey man but more as a draw to bring more attention to the sport in your country.

[Brian R. VanCise]

This is the showcase for British fighters, Cage Rage tomorrow night. And yes they all made weight!! it is shown on Sky TV but i don't have satellite so can't tell you when etc. American interest will be in Chris Brennan and Pierre Guillet. Jean Silva has fought in Pride and Mark Weir of course did one of the fastest KOs on UFC. Vitor Belfort is well known to BJJ and MMA fans, his instructional DVDs are very good btw. Alex Reid is very good looking so they say, he's also an actor but I can't say any of these were matched for their looks lmao! he presented his opponent today at the weigh in with a bottle of baby oil........

Fightcard.

Gary Turner 102kg (224.8lbs) vs Julius Francis 133 kg (293.1 lbs)
Vitor Belfort 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs James Zikic 90 kg (198.3lbs)
Mark Weir 76.2 kg (167.9lbs) vs Paul Daley 77.3 kg (170.3lbs)
Jean Silva 71 kg (156.4lbs) vs Chris Brennan 70 kg (154.2lbs)
Mustapha Al-Turk 109 kg ( 240.2lbs) vs Tengiz Tedoradze 110 kg ( 242.4lbs)
Xavier Foupa-Pokam 83.9 kg (184.9lbs) vs Pierre Guillet 83.9 kg (184.9lbs)
Matt Ewin 83.5 kg (184lbs) vs Alex Reid 82.5 kg (181.8lbs)
Domonic Ostich 109.5 kg (241.3lbs) vs Neil Grove 132 kg ( 290.9lbs)
Roman Webber 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs Ed Smith 91 kg (200.5lbs)
Ch'e Mills 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Ross Mason 77.1 kg (169.9lbs)
Lee Doski 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Jason Barrett 76.5kg ( 168.6lbs)


http://www.teamgaryturner.com/index.php

I know the thread has gone a long way from Gina but the discussion has turned to professionism in MMA. All the guys above are pro fighters, only a couple make their all their living from fighting though and they all weigh in correctly, that's how you get taken seriously.

That is a good line up and I hope they do well! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif