Breaking Competition

[cali_tkdbruin]

We just finished watching the Martial Arts Breaking competition on ESPN. The Taekwondoists really stepped up and took care of hardcore Biznus:eek:

I don't know, maybe it's 'cuz they make us break all of those boards when we test. :confused:

When we went for our blacks the Sabumnim made us break 10 boards to earn our B-belts. I guess there is were it comes from... :eek:

[Klondike93]

When I took my black belt test, we had to break 2 ceramic roofing tiles with either a knife hand chop or elbow. Then we had to do 2 boards with a lead leg side kick. It was fun :)



:asian:

[Bagatha]

10 boards?:rolleyes: as if. What kind of styrofoam do you use? The world record is around 12. 3/4 inch 12x12 pine.

[white belt]

TKD Bruin,

How many different techniques were required for your 10 boards? What size were they? I have seen different schools, at tournaments, use a variety of sizes.

Is the ESPN episode airing again? That was good news about our TKD brothers doing well. Thanks for the upbeat news flash!

white belt

[KennethKu]

10 boards in one stack? Or 1 board each in 10 breaks?

[white belt]

Ken,

He has to mean 10 total. That is why I posted about the number of techniques used, meaning 4 sidekick, 3 roundhouse, 3 knifehand for example.

white belt

[TLH3rdDan]

why could it not be 10 at once???? and i find it hard to believe that the world record is set at only 12... i currently do a burning break with 8 using a hammer fist strike... and i know it would be very possible for me to add two more to make it ten and still do the break easily...

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by TLH3rdDan
why could it not be 10 at once???? and i find it hard to believe that the world record is set at only 12... i currently do a burning break with 8 using a hammer fist strike... and i know it would be very possible for me to add two more to make it ten and still do the break easily...

Fine. Go break the world record then? Talk is cheap. Fame and glory awaiting you.

[white belt]

I personally find it harder to break ten boards BEFORE I burn them. I have no eyebrows.

white belt

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by TLH3rdDan
i currently do a burning break with 8 using a hammer fist strike... and i know it would be very possible for me to add two more to make it ten and still do the break easily...

Are the breaks spaced? That makes them easier. How long do you let them burn (i.e. long enough to get brittle and make the break easier, or do you buy green wood, soak it with water, then break it while burning?)? Burning usually makes dry boards brittle and easier to break...

Our school uses bricks, generally patio type around 6" x 12" x 1 1/2" (because they are the most "cost effective" ;) ). We also place a 3" thick phone book on top, which makes us have to be able to project enough force to penetrate through the phone book as well as through the bricks. No spacers allowed, just bricks flush together. Top that off with our pet technique - an open handed slap.

When we are able to break 3 bricks, we go to half bricks (since there are, by this time, an abundance of them around the training hall! :D ). The best break I have heard of in our school was a half brick, unsupported, flat on the floor... Ouch. :erg: I managed to break a single cinder block, 6" thick, through both a 3" phone book as well as a ceramic tile (the tile didn't break - cool, but I didn't mean for that to happen, so not as cool as I'd like it to be...)

The down side to breaking bricks is that you have to make sure they are dry... If they are wet, they break more easily (concrete is, after all, really only congealed sand). Also, it gets hard sometimes to find the patio bricks that aren't scalloped... The scalloping creates natural fault lines that allow breaks to occur more easily.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[Bagatha]

Originally posted by TLH3rdDan
why could it not be 10 at once???? and i find it hard to believe that the world record is set at only 12... i currently do a burning break with 8 using a hammer fist strike... and i know it would be very possible for me to add two more to make it ten and still do the break easily...

If the boards are burning then they have been weakened.

what size are your boards?

are there spaces between the boards or are they flat together?

Im not saying its impossible, I know a guy who can do a 5 board forefist, and he isnt that great, he just weighs alot and is fast. If he was good he no doubt would be very dangerous.

[fissure]

I would say that the boards we use are about 8" across and a foot long. I've broken 7 boards with a reverse punch. They were taped together at the ends and held by 4 guys.This was a hard break for me and the holders. Can the record be set with kicking tech., or is it only for hand tech.?

[TLH3rdDan]

ok the boards i use a 12" x 12" 3/4" pine... no spacing... the boards are only lit long enough for all the lighter fuild to ignite which is about 5 seconds... the boards are not even black after the break since they do not burn that long since the force of the break ussually puts out the fire... and no i dont bake them or anything to make them brittle... i ussually go and by them at and have them cut the day of the event at the lumber yard... where they are stored outside... so yes they do sometimes have quiet a bit of mositure in them...

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by TLH3rdDan
ok the boards i use a 12" x 12" 3/4" pine... no spacing...

Pretty good then... 8 x 3/4 = 6 inches of wood... Nice.


the boards are only lit long enough for all the lighter fuild to ignite which is about 5 seconds... the boards are not even black after the break since they do not burn that long since the force of the break ussually puts out the fire...

So what's the point? Since it is the lighter fluid, not the wood, that is burning, and since you can pour all sorts of lighter fluid on yourself, set it alight and the only thing that will burn (besides maybe some hair) is the fluid, and since you are never in any real danger from the fire, why bother?


and no i dont bake them or anything to make them brittle...

Wasn't going to ask about that, but thanks for clarifying it anyway... I knew several "high ranking" TKD "masters" back in my home town that were outed by the lumber yards to other martial arts folks - when another instructor, a karate guy I think, went to the lumber yard to get boards cut, the lumberman asked "do you want the 'special' ones, or regular wood?" The karate guy inquired what "special" meant, and was regaled with the intimate details of the processing that the TKD guys required... Sad, really, but that is just how it goes sometimes. I think someone said in another thread that while the bulk of TKD is on the up and up, because there are so many TKD schools, the proportion of visible frauds is higher, not necessarily that there are a higher percentage in TKD than in any other art...


i ussually go and by them at and have them cut the day of the event at the lumber yard... where they are stored outside... so yes they do sometimes have quiet a bit of mositure in them...

Well, respectable as that may be, I admit that when I buy bricks I buy them at least a week in advance... But then, you are looking for freshness (i.e. untampered with) in your breaking material, while I have to eliminate environmental factors in mine...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[TLH3rdDan]

well thanks for the detailed reply... as far as the burning lighter fluid the only reason i do that is strictly for show purposes... ya know you see one board broke you seen them all... but when you add fire it makes it a little more interesting lol...

[white belt]

I recall reading, not too long ago, about a breaking expert who did a flaming break in a boxing ring. He was quite good from what I read, but one day he let his Gi sleeve ignite just prior to the break, caught fire, jumped out of the ring and he suffered a terrible amount of injury. From all accounts he was a nice guy who had a bad day. Anybody else this rings a bell with? I wonder how he is doing today?

white belt

[TLH3rdDan]

ive heard stories like that one but not that paticular one... its the reason i do mine with out a gi top just a tshirt lol that way all i lose is some hair on my arms lol

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by Bagatha
10 boards?:rolleyes: as if. What kind of styrofoam do you use? The world record is around 12. 3/4 inch 12x12 pine.

Bagatha, it wasn't 10 boards stacked up on top of each other, PA-Leeze! :rolleyes:
Okay, maybe I needed to be more specific, my bad...

Anyway, for the record we did have to break 10 "different" boards, but, it was done using 10 different hand and footstrikes (i.e., punch, hammerfist, knifehand strikes, elbow strike and various kicks). I still haven't progressed to the point where I can break 10 boards stacked on top of each other but I'm working on it...:rofl:

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by white belt
Ken,

He has to mean 10 total. That is why I posted about the number of techniques used, meaning 4 sidekick, 3 roundhouse, 3 knifehand for example.

white belt

You got it white belt, it was 10 total. (see my previous post). We'd like to think we're tough superhuman TKD guys at my dojang, but, in reality we're just normal non-superhero regular joes. Breaking 10 boards all at once would be very impressive, I wish I could do it... :D

[Matt Stone]

Again, move past "mere" boards and onto slabs of concrete...

There is a satisfaction after breaking a sidewalk with your hand that just can't be found elsewhere... :D

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Again, move past "mere" boards and onto slabs of concrete...

There is a satisfaction after breaking a sidewalk with your hand that just can't be found elsewhere... :D

With all due respect, something needs to be cleared up here.

1. Using one hand slap, it is EASIER to break patio block or anything that does NOT flex. The slap generates shock effect. Anything that does not flex, tends to break. A board, however, flexes and negates the shock effect of a slap. So, using slap, boards are harder to break than patio bricks.

2. Putting a 3" phone book is to make it easy on your palm slapping the blocks. Without the phone book, you would not be able to hit as hard on the blocks without causing injury or excruciating pains to your palm hand. Hitting a hard surface hurts. When you can't use as much force, then you can't break as many. On the surface it appears that the phone book makes it harder to transfer the power. However, it is actually a tradeoff. A well compressed (vs a fluffy) phone book can transmit most of the energy through just fine. Yet, it is a lot softer than the hard surface of the block and a lot easier on the striking hand. I started out IronFist training on a phone book. :rolleyes: Not exactly brilliant, I know.

Try breaking boards with your gloves on. You can break more boards than with bare knuckles b/c you can hit harder with less pain (except for the hardcore who would just ignore the pain and bruises when breaking bareknuckles, I suppose.)

3. Using spacers make it easier to break boards, EXCEPT when you are using SLAPPING to break blocks. If you put spacers between blocks, the spaces between the blocks make it impossible for the shock effect of the slapping motion to penetrate through.

4. Wet blocks/bricks are actually harder to break. At least that is my experience. But there could be many different types of bricks out there.

This is not to mean that your breaking power is not impressive. You are very good and very impressive. No one can deny that.


P.S. BTW, it is simply a matter of the laws of physics. My personal opinions worth nothing in that regards. :asian:

[Matt Stone]

Kenneth -

We do break the bricks minus the phone book on occasion... Then we use a small towel folded up to make a pad. Our iron palm training isn't designed to make the hand look like a foot, but rather to toughen it to withstand striking a body... Never been attacked by a sidewalk nor a brick wall, and were I to be I suspect I would still lose... ;)

We don't lose the phonebook all that often, however.

In my experience, bricks that were wet (after a good, hard midwestern rain) broke like compressed sand with only a little effort. Ones that had been dried (after a good, hot midwestern summer day or two) were much more resilient.

I did say earlier that bricks broke more easily than boards... please look upthread. After all, all concrete "really" is is dried, coagulated sand... :D No grain, no flexion.

As for the tradeoff between thickness of the book vs. ease of the break and power transferral... When I was in Japan, I did a demo where I had about 3 inches of book, then a 1 inch terra cotta brick, then a cinder block (about 5 or 6 inches thick, three holes). I slapped it, broke the cinder block just fine, but failed to break the terra cotta plate... Was disappointed at first, but then later wondered about the results, especially in light of the fact that the terra cotta plates/bricks broke very easily any other time with any technique used...

Your take on this? I would appreciate feedback...

Lastly, I can appreciate your comment about spacers and slapping... I am going to have to be stupid and check that out on my own (going to have to wait until the spring, though... Up here in WA, the abient dampness is a factor I'd like to rule out).

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[white belt]

Before I share my experiences, I realise I have much to develop. Yes, I know I am not comparable to some of the more amazing practicioners. Just sharing for some of the newer guys who want to know what's possible from the average Joe. I break a 1.75 inch patio block, with either hand, using the index and middle knuckles of my fist.

My GM used to do something I call "Skeet breaking". No, I'm not joking. One of his brothers would toss patio blocks through the air, end over end, and my GM would bust them with two knuckles (in midair!) as they passed. His fist would travel about 2 1/2 feet before hitting the blocks. That to me is rugged beyond anything I have yet witnessed, especially coming from such a small statured man. When he talks with his hands, I step back!

While on my knees, I break 4, 3/4 inch, 11.5 x 11.5 inch boards, with no spacers, using a knife hand. My hand starts at eye level. The key to this break is what I would call "Internal". The lungs are filled and the spine is arched. Exploding a Kihap yell properly causes the torso to collapse forward violently, while using the diaphragms and hip flexors contractions, in one giant short range spasm. I am close to doing 5 and should be successful soon with a little more breath development. I weight 170 lbs. at 5' 11''. All the stressing of that corny "Kihap" yell does have a useable action of physics in training the lungs, torso, spine, etc. to release the bodys latent force. Making the full exhalation, like an air cannon burst, combined with proper technique, does some pretty neat things I never suspected at first. The "Internal" practicioners powers intimidate me a bit more now that I am learning to use the breath a little more myself. Very deceptive amount of energy in those delicate looking moves they sometimes do.

white belt

[fissure]

It has been my experience that wood is "harder" to break than a comparable thickness of a stiffer substance like concrete slabs or (the easily broken) concrete tile. A sharp, well placed blow seems to crack these items fairly easily, but can be somewhat painful if you are off by any amount. In contrast I find wood to be quite forgiving in the "perfection of tech. and mental prep." aspect. However the give or flexion in the boards dictates a solid blow with a strong finish to get through a good number of them. This is my experience at least, I'm sure others will differ.

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
.....Kenneth..... When I was in Japan, I did a demo where I had about 3 inches of book, then a 1 inch terra cotta brick, then a cinder block (about 5 or 6 inches thick, three holes). I slapped it, broke the cinder block just fine, but failed to break the terra cotta plate... Was disappointed at first, but then later wondered about the results, especially in light of the fact that the terra cotta plates/bricks broke very easily any other time with any technique used...

Your take on this? I would appreciate feedback...

If you stack a structurally stronger target with a structurally weaker target, the weaker one will break and in the process, absorbs sufficient amount of the impact energy to allow the harder target to remain intact. The same property is used in making auto safer by creating front and back crumble zones but strengthened passenger cabin. In a crash, the crumber zone collapses, aborbs the impact energy, leaving the passengers safe inside the strengthened cabin.

If the car gets smashed by an 18 wheeler or a train, the impact energy will destroy the crumble zones as well the cabin. If you hit hard enough, you will break both the terra cotta and the cinder block, even when stacked together.

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by white belt .......My GM used to do something I call "Skeet breaking". No, I'm not joking. One of his brothers would toss patio blocks through the air, end over end, and my GM would bust them with two knuckles (in midair!) as they passed. His fist would travel about 2 1/2 feet before hitting the blocks. ......

Yes, that is very good indeed. You do need to harden your knuckles to achieve that. Technique alone is not sufficient.

A fat guy who put his body weight behind it, or someone with a heavy arm, can break quite a number of boards without training or conditioning. But what they have is pushing power. When people say they can break this many or that many boards, I would shrug and congratulate them. The real test is when they can break a suspended board! Now that is real destructive force in demonstration. A heavy arm that can break several supported boards will just push a suspended board away. You need velocity to deliver the destructive strike.

[white belt]

Good analogy with the car engineering/breaking!

white belt

[MountainSage]

My master requires 10 idfferent breaks for BB; one must be a speed break usually wiith a single 12x12x3/4 pine board, fist or leg. one with three boards, your choice of how to break. Most chose back kick or jumping back kick. The remainer are usually other kicks and punchs of 1 and 2 board combinations.

Mountian Sage

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by KennethKu
If you stack a structurally stronger target with a structurally weaker target, the weaker one will break and in the process, absorbs sufficient amount of the impact energy to allow the harder target to remain intact. The same property is used in making auto safer by creating front and back crumble zones but strengthened passenger cabin. In a crash, the crumber zone collapses, aborbs the impact energy, leaving the passengers safe inside the strengthened cabin.

If the car gets smashed by an 18 wheeler or a train, the impact energy will destroy the crumble zones as well the cabin. If you hit hard enough, you will break both the terra cotta and the cinder block, even when stacked together.

But my point was that the terra cotta plate did not break... I struck hard enough to break the cinder block through the phone book and terra cotta plate, but there was no damage to the plate at all... At first I was disappointed (I had only set the plate on top to use up what was left of the breaking material), because I was having a ball just breaking whatever I could find, and when I broke the cinder block (first time I had ever tried it) I was ecstatic. Then I saw the plate was undamaged, and got a bit disappointed... Later I saw the photo of the break and realized maybe I had unwittingly done more than I had intended (that whole "selective break" myth and all).

Anyway.

Interesting story - the other person doing the demo with me was from another style of questionable origins. I was breaking concrete, he was breaking - and this is for real - balsa wood. How do I know this? He offered me two boards to break, I felt their weight in my hand (feather light), and while holding them in one hand, struck them with a back fist and broke them in two... You just have to love "legitimate" martial arts, right? In other news, he was granted "grandmaster" status by some belt mill, and has recently started using the title "soke" in his signature line... Sad.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[yilisifu]

Here's one to try out. Blow up a balloon and tie the end shut. Toss it into the air and try to break it with a punch.

Good luck.

:D

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
But my point was that the terra cotta plate did not break... I struck hard enough to break the cinder block through the phone book and terra cotta plate, but there was no damage to the plate at all...

Terra cotta is fired clay while the cinderblock is cement with sand. The terra cotta is 1" solid while the cinderblock has holes in it and was hit from its structurally weak side (they are designed to be laid vertically and best at absorbing stress vertically, not horizontally.)

Well, as I wrote, it is a matter of the relative structural strength of the materials involved. Obviously the cinderblock was weaker than the terra cotta. It broke and aborbed the energy in the process, energy that would have broken the terra cotta. You will just need to hit HARDER! :) For example, a sledgehammer will definitely break both the terra cotta AND the cinderblock.

[white dragon]

Does anyone break using break boards? The ones we use require a certain amount of pressure per square inch to break, and we use harder boards the higher up the grades we go.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Yup, sure do. We use re-breakable boards quite a bit whenever we're prepping for our next test. It's more convienent than making trips to the lumber yard...:karate:

[white belt]

TKD Bruin,

The rebreakable boards, would you recommend them for focus practice before the real thing? I have never checked them out. A good investment do you think? I research different ideas to tweak or upgrade the learning process for my students. I would appreciate your feedback on positives and negatives.

white belt

[white dragon]

Just for what its worth, my thoughts are that they're well worth getting for ease of use and in the long run it saves money on having to keep buying new boards or slabs. Make sure if you get one though that you look at the different strengths so you don't get something that isn't challenging enough for you. Also to get a really good break on them you have to hit them dead center, so it can help as a focusing exercise.

[white belt]

Hey, THANKS White Dragon! I'll follow up on this. The kids especially will really be happy. A new toy of sorts for them and a tool for learning.

white belt

[white dragon]

Hehehe, you're welcome, they do make fun things to play with. Sometimes in class we partner up and form a kind of ring, each pair acts as a different "station" and is given a different set of pads to work with and an exercise to go with it. One station might be jump spin hook kicks, the next lead leg turning kicks, or a hand combination. You do a minute on each side (right and left leg/hand) then swap with your partner. After the 4 minutes you move onto the next station. Anyway, recently at least one of the stations has become a break board. 4 minutes of having to perform a good solid kick with enough power and technique to break a board can really take it out of you, plus it builds up the confidence so that facing a tile, slab, or piece of wood just isn't as intimedating as it used to be.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by white belt
TKD Bruin,

The rebreakable boards, would you recommend them for focus practice before the real thing? I have never checked them out. A good investment do you think? I research different ideas to tweak or upgrade the learning process for my students. I would appreciate your feedback on positives and negatives.

white belt

Focus practice is the primary reason why we use the rebreakable boards. Also, as white dragon mentioned, in the long run it's cheaper to use rebreakable boards rather than real lumber or bricks. So it is a good investment and you save a bunch of trees too. ;)

In addition, I've found it useful if you can buy a rebreakable board that allows you to change the board strength based on the student's ability and power. I have a rebreakable board that can be set to be as hard or even stronger than an actual wooden board. :eek:

It does make for good practice.

[white belt]

Thanks TKD Bruin! Another positive testimonial. Hot Damn! New toys!

:)
white belt