The Reality of Anonymous Posting. - By Bob Hubbard

[Bob Hubbard]

The Reality of Anonymous Posting.
By Bob Hubbard


There are well over a 10 million forums, lists, chat rooms, news groups, blogs, journals and discussion areas on the internet today. On many of them, there is a debate on using handles or aliases or fake names. The bottom line is, there is no such thing as true anonymity online today. Oh, there are ways you can make it harder to figure out, but with enough time, resources and in some cases money, your identity can be found.

The first level of anonymity is the handle. A handle, or alias can be anything from a nickname, to a login name, to a cute saying or a fake name. "DaffyDuck2525" and "Nose Picker" are 2 examples of aliases. In some cases, they reflect a fantasy personality, associated with things like science fiction fandom, or reenactment organizations. Many people use them for fun, and don't really hide much, however there are those who will gladly use as many false identities as they can, to cause trouble and give the illusion that many hold a certain opinion, when in truth, it is only a few. Some sites have forbidden the use of handles, as it is hard to hold a professional discussion with someone named "Hot Dog" using the picture of a puppy n fire as their public face.

The second level of anonymity is the fake name. This is different than the handle, which is often obvious. The fake name is the easiest way to hide, as there are few ways to verify you are who you say you are online. Some people go to great lengths in their use of fake realistic names, creating elaborate histories, and getting one or more known-real people to vouch for them. When put on the spot, they will often claim to have never been photographed, or taped, and will refuse any meetings requested of them. Their verifiers will step to their defense and reiterate that they are real, and they know them well. While many sites will allow the use of handles, they will insist that you "sign" your posts with your name. While this can give some credibility, short of requesting notarized copies of government issued ID or credit cards, these are hard to prove especially when enough known-real people insist on their existence. Other means must be used to disprove this tactic.

The third level is the fake or throw-away email address. We all get tons of spam, and hear worries of identity theft daily. Some resort to temporary or throw away addresses through the numerous free email services out there. A favorite tactic of spammers and certified internet troublemakers, also known as 'trolls', more and more the free services are being blocked from reputable sites.

The forth level of anonymity if the proxy server / anonymizer service. These services, sometimes free, sometimes for a fee will allow you to surf the net, under a sort of 'cloak'. Some background information is needed here. Each computer that connects to the internet is assigned an id number, called an IP address. It's kind of like a phone number for your computer. When you connect to another computer, it gives your IP number as an identifier. The anonymizer service doesn't block your number, it simply reports a false one to the answering system. While hard to identify and block, they are not perfect. Not all services are as anonymous as they claim, and there are ways to find who really did make the connection, a fact that some today have discovered the hard way after law enforcement traced them.

In short, regardless if you surf as "John Smith", "Jeffery Dillion III" or "Captain Caveman", the people who run the sites, the engineers at the data centers who run the computers, and the boys in blue can with some time and effort, find out who you are.

The use of a handle can be fun. It adds flavor to hobbiest sites, can be used to advertise your business or your proficiency at a subject. They can also however be used to cause problems, sow dissent and otherwise disrupt a community. More and more, professionally oriented sites are either discouraging them, or banning them outright as a result.

So, use your handle, have fun, but don't be expected to be taken seriously unless you post under a verifiable real name. After all, who would take advice from someone named after a mouse?

===
Bob Hubbard is an administrator of the popular martial arts sites MartialTalk.com (http://martialtalk.com/) and KenpoTalk.com (http://kenpotalk.com/). He is president of SilverStar WebDesigns inc., a web site design and hosting company specializing in affordable solutions for martial artists as well as a professional photographer. More of Bob's articles can be found at rustaz.net (http://rustaz.net/). Please contact Bob if you would like him to review your martial arts product.

Copyright ©2007 Bob Hubbard - Copies of this article are free to distribute, provided all text is retained intact.

[Sukerkin]

A nice espousal of the issue there, Bob :tup:.

I wonder if you have another article in the works which details the 'flipside' of this i.e. the fears that people have with regard to identity theft and what steps can be taken to avoid it?

[Bob Hubbard]

yup. ;)

[LawDog]

Excellant thread Bob,
I think that everyone who wants to be taken seriously and uses a screen name should have his real signature at the bottom of the posting.
If I do not know their name then I hold little value in what they post and consider it bad manners.

[Kacey]

Excellant thread Bob,
I think that everyone who wants to be taken seriously and uses a screen name should have his real signature at the bottom of the posting.
If I do not know their name then I hold little value in what they post and consider it bad manners.
I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, when I signed up with MT, I made a conscious decision to not use my real name (which I had done on other boards) because of concerns about identity theft.

[Sukerkin]

I do take your point, LawDog but, as in real life, there are those without scruples who can take your name and do with it as they wish.

In the real world, I reserve the right not to always give my name out freely. Yes, it is rude and a sign of distrust but it is also sensible.

On-line, I do not have the advantages of face to face contact with those who ask for my identity, so I am proportionally more cautious. Once I get some sort of feel for people in a fora then it's not a problem for them to know my real name. Again, it's a signal of trust and friendship. If giving your real identity is enforced by the fora rules then that element is lost.

It's an interesting area of discussion, I have to admit. It's intimately tied up with how we decide who we like and trust and how that process still occurs even when all you have to go on is lines of text on a screen.

[kidswarrior]

Excellant thread Bob,
I think that everyone who wants to be taken seriously and uses a screen name should have his real signature at the bottom of the posting.
If I do not know their name then I hold little value in what they post and consider it bad manners.Wow!

[jks9199]

Excellant thread Bob,
I think that everyone who wants to be taken seriously and uses a screen name should have his real signature at the bottom of the posting.
If I do not know their name then I hold little value in what they post and consider it bad manners.
There's a flip side, though.

I have no problem providing Bob, as the site adminstrator, my true name and other information. I've very deliberately left where I live and who I work for somewhat vague; this is to protect my family, and to make sure that my posts are never taken as speaking for my employer. I've been fairly open about what I do for a living (I'm not in person, unless I'm on the clock; most of my neighbors think I'm a martial arts teacher, garbage collector, or just another government employee.) -- but not who I work for.

Others have pointed out the identity theft concerns; I regularly put my own name through various search engines because I also have concerns that work might follow me home. I'm not going to make it easy.

If you're questioning the value of what I have to say, I simply urge everyone to practice critical reading. I think most would agree that I'm pretty consistent in what I say, and the views I hold. I limit my "expertise" to what I know, and do my best to avoid talking head syndrome where someone becomes an expert on anything and everything... So, even though I don't put my real name on my posts, I think I'm pretty credible. Of course, you're free to disagree...

[LawDog]

Kacey,
I really understand where you are coming from and I do respect your views.
Years ago I felt the same way until I was trained in id theft.
ID theft can happen / does happen,
* obtaining a person's #SS number, (the best way).
* you use a credit card at a store, clerks snap up the card info,
* go on line and purchase something with a credit card,
* taking down someone's license plate number, going to which ever agency handles the registry plates and getting all of the plate owners info,(car thefts are sometimes done this way)
* go to a people search for yahoo, pay a few bucks and there's your info,
* credit reports, a lot of people / companies can get your info this way,
* under the "freedom of information act" much of your drivers history information can be obtained,
* staged accidents, you have to give the other person your information.
* ip addresses,
* If you own a personal web site much of your info is listed,
* If you own a business your info is available,
* Own property
It goes on and on.
By placing a name on a forum will have little value unless you give out your partial or full address, your date of birth or some other personal identifyer.
Either way your postings are still great, keep them coming.

[LawDog]

Ow,
Hey guys much of my referencing was do to a very bad experience on another forum, not this one. On this other forum they were actually calling my wife a ****ing ****and a *****. They were all un named posters
This is why I said what I said

[DArnold]

Kacey,
I really understand where you are coming from and I do respect your views.
Years ago I felt the same way until I was trained in id theft.
ID theft can happen / does happen,
* obtaining a person's #SS number, (the best way).
* you use a credit card at a store, clerks snap up the card info,
* go on line and purchase something with a credit card,
* taking down someone's license plate number, going to which ever agency handles the registry plates and getting all of the plate owners info,(car thefts are sometimes done this way)
* go to a people search for yahoo, pay a few bucks and there's your info,
* credit reports, a lot of people / companies can get your info this way,
* under the "freedom of information act" much of your drivers history information can be obtained,
* staged accidents, you have to give the other person your information.
* ip addresses,
* If you own a personal web site much of your info is listed,
* If you own a business your info is available,
* Own property
It goes on and on.
By placing a name on a forum will have little value unless you give out your partial or full address, your date of birth or some other personal identifyer.
Either way your postings are still great, keep them coming.

I used to feel this way, until I started working in computers.
In my last position, I could find anything out about you in less than 24 hours, anonymous or not. So can the government. It was over 10 years ago when the article came out that every version of MS operating system has at least two back doors, one MS keeps and one they give to the government.

Do you choose to live in fear or not.

As I teach computers, the question still comes up if it is safe to buy online. Yes an no, no one is going to waste time tracking one email to get one number or one SSL hook up (Unless you fall for a phishing email and you actually give them your number) The problem usually is people like HP or DSW or the army that allow someone to hack in or walk in and steal all their information. So you still need to rotate your credit cards every so often anyway. Because there are still cheap/studpid companies out there that don't protect your information.

The great thing about Martial Talk is that this is less of a problem. Unlike other BBS like Bulshido... where insecure juniors just like to get on and trash talk, big waste of time.

Most people don't realize how hard it is to communicate by this medium as tone, inlclination, feeling... can very easily be misread.
And you have those who think it is disrespectful to ask questions. HA

[kidswarrior]

Ow,
Hey guys much of my referencing was do to a very bad experience on another forum, not this one. On this other forum they were actually calling my wife a f--- s--- and a w----. They were all un named posters
This is why I said what I said
Thanks for clarifying, Sir. Now I get it. Have had the same experience, and life's not getting any longer. :)

[Bob Hubbard]

This article kinda sums up why MT (and to a lesser extent KT) has the policy we have in place. It's that meet in the middle thing. We allow you to be as open or anonymous as you want in public, but ask that you provide us with your information. (Our privacy policy covers what we do with it). We know there are those who have lied, and there really isn't much we can do, other than boot them if they become a problem.

I stopped using handles on most boards because I made the decision to stand out. It has resulted in me getting crank phone calls, but that's because I've also posted my phone number publicly.

Personal privacy is an important point to me, but there's too much false info out there, y'know?

[jks9199]

I made a compromise decision... I use the same handle (jks9199) pretty consistently across several forums. In fact, if you run it through Google, all you come up with are my various posts.

[Bob Hubbard]

Right now, it's very unlikely that someone will say, rip off my bank account because I posted my name. A greater risk, is someone with a bone to pick with me going elsewhere and claiming to be me. It's simple to test though. Contact me through MartialTalk or SilverStar and ask. I don't use hotmail, yahoo or other freebie accounts, other than a gmail account as an emergency account. I use my name, and am pretty consistent in my signature. You may see me as Kaith on some sites, and that handle I've used since 1983 on dial up BBS's and sci fi fandom. Ironicly more people know me as Kaith than Bob. LOL

[Brian R. VanCise]

I am perfectly fine with anonymous posting but I prefer people to use their real names when and if possible. Though I respect anyone's right or desire not to. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[bluemtn]

I don't mind using my first name in public, and keeping the rest for certain things private though.

[Kacey]

By placing a name on a forum will have little value unless you give out your partial or full address, your date of birth or some other personal identifyer.
Either way your postings are still great, keep them coming.

LawDog, I understand all of that - but at the time I registered, I didn't realize that my birthday was only visible if I chose to make it visible - which is why I chose to use Kacey (which represents my initials - KC) instead of my name, Karen Cohn.

[LawDog]

Kacey,
Years ago when I joined my first forum I was of the same mindset so I used only a screen name.
Thanks for the response and the pm was understood.

[Kacey]

Kacey,
Years ago when I joined my first forum I was of the same mindset so I used only a screen name.
Thanks for the response and the pm was understood.
No worries. And I will also say that, on other forums where I did use my name as my handle, I had a problem with spam generated from the forum... which was another reason I chose to use Kacey; that way, when email comes in addressed to Kacey instead of Karen, it's easier to sort - all email (except what I receive as a moderator) that comes to Kacey is suspect, because it's not my name.

I suppose I could add my full name to my signature; I just don't see the point. As Bob said above, I could say my name was Judith Tarr, and use that as a handle consistently, and in my signature, and no one would know the difference. Or, like jks9199, I can use the same handle consistently, and let people judge for themselves based on what I say and how I say it... which is really all you can do anyway.

[Mr. E]

I think it is a perfectly valid caution to be afraid of people using personal information about you to make your life miserable. I have noticed that there are some rather extreme nut cases on many martial arts boards. And I happen to have recently read something about how for 29 dollars American and just a little bit of personal information you can get an American's social security number from a service on line. With that, a name and a date of birth, you can essentially assume someone's identity. That is for America, other countries have their own problems and predators that do not differ much in the end result, just the details.

I can just imagine blasting some fraud or idiot and having them try to make my life as miserable as possible. I would not just be a target of oppurtunity, but something they would feel driven to put in the extra time to run down and attack.

Martialtalk is one of the better boards in that it asks your date of birth, but does not post it unless you want. You should not let it be posted IMO, and especially if you give your real name.

But aside from that, there are dangers about the information people can gleen from just what you write. You may not post your birthdate, but if you complain about a hangover from your birthday bash the night before and ever say how old you are they can figure it out anyways.

The following story is false accoriding to this article on Snopes, (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/parental/shannon.asp) but it has been forwarded to a lot of people as if it were true.


MYSPACE: A Must Read for All

EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ ALL OF THIS and HAVE
CHILDREN READ IT TOO!

After tossing her books on the sofa, she decided
to grab a snack and get
on-line. She logged on under her screen name
ByAngel213. She checked her
Buddy List and saw GoTo123 was on. She sent him an
instant message:

ByAngel213:
Hi. I'm glad you are on! I thought someone was
following me home today. It
was really weird!

GoTo123:
LOL You watch too much TV. Why would someone be
following you?
Don't you live in a safe neighborhood?

ByAngel213:
Of course I do. LOL I guess it was my imagination
cuz' I didn't see anybody
when I looked out.

GoTo123:
Unless you gave your name out on-line. You haven't
done that have you?

ByAngel213:
Of course not. I'm not stupid you know.

GoTo123:
Did you have a softball game after school today?

ByAngel213:
Yes and we won!!

GoTo123:
That's great! Who did you play?

ByAngel213:
We played the Hornets. LOL. Their uniforms are so
gross! They look like
bees. LOL

GoTo123:
What is your team called?

ByAngel213:
We are the Canton Cats. We have tiger paws on our
uniforms. They are really
cool.

GoTo1 23:
Did you pitch?

ByAngel213:
No I play second base. I got to go. My homework
has to be done before my
parents get home. I don't want them mad at me.
Bye!

GoTo123:
Catch you later. Bye

Meanwhile.......GoTo123 went to the member menu
and began to search for her
profile. When it came up, he highlighted it and
printed it out. He took out
a pen and began to write down what he knew about
Angel so far.

Her name: Shannon
Birthday: Jan. 3, 1985
Age: 13
State where she lived: North Carolina

Hobbies: softball, chorus, skating and going to
the mall. Besides this
information, he knew she lived in Canton because
she had just told him. He
knew she stayed by herself until 6:30 p.m. every
afternoon until her parents
came home from work. He knew she played softball
on Thursday afternoons on
the school team, and the team was named the Canton
Cats. Her favorite number
7 was printed on her jersey. He knew she was in
the eighth grade at the
Canton Junior High School . She had told him all
this in the conversations
they had on- line. He had enough information to
find her now.

Shannon didn't tell her parents about the incident
on the way home from the
ballpark that day. She didn't want them to make a
scene and stop her from
walking home from the softball games. Parents were
always overreacting and
hers were the worst. It made her wish she was not
an only child. Maybe if
she had brothers and sisters, her parents wouldn't
be so overprotective.

By Thursday, Shannon had forgotten about the
footsteps following her.

Her game was in full swing when suddenly she felt
someone staring at her. It
was then that the memory came back. She glanced up
from her second base
position to see a man watching her closely.

He was leaning against the fence behind first base
and he smiled when she
looked at him. He didn't look scary and she
quickly dismissed the sudden
fear she had felt.

After the game, he sat on a bleacher while she
talked to the coach. She
noticed his smile once again as she walked past
him. He nodded and she
smiled back. He noticed her name on the back of
her shirt. He knew he had
found her.

Quietly, he walked a safe distance behind her. It
was only a few blocks to
Shannon's home, and once he saw where she lived he
quickly returned to the
park to get his car.

Now he had to wait. He decided to get a bite to
eat until the time came to
go toShannon's house. He drove to a fast food
restaurant and sat there until
time to make his move.

Shannon was in her room later that evening when
she heard voices in the
living room.

"Shannon, come here," her father called. He
sounded upset and she couldn't
imagine why. She went into the room to see the man
from the ballpark sitting
on the sofa.

"Sit down," her father began, "this man has just
told us a most interesting
story about you."

Shannon sat back. How could he tell her parents
anything? She had never seen
him before today!

"Do you know who I am, Shannon ?" the man asked.

"No," Shannon answered.

"I am a police officer and your online friend,
GoTo123."

Shannon was stunned. "That's impossible! GoTo is a
kid my age! He's 14. And
he lives in Michigan !"

The man smiled. "I know I told you all that, but
it wasn't true. You see,
Shannon , there are people on-line who pretend to
be kids; I was one of
them. But while others do it to injure kids and
hurt them, I belong to a
group of parents who do it to protect kids from
predators. I came here to
find you to teach you how dangerous it is to talk
to people on-line. You
told me enough about yourself to make it easy for
me to find you. You named
the school you went to, the name of your ball team
and the position you
played. The number and name on your jersey just
made finding you a breeze."

Shannon was stunned. "You mean you don't live in
Michigan ?"

He laughed. "No, I live in Raleigh It made you
feel safe to think I was so
far away, didn't it?"

She nodded.

"I had a friend whose daughter was like you. Only
she wasn't as lucky. The
guy found her and murdered her while she was home
alone. Kids are taught not
to tell anyone when they are alone, yet they do it
all the time on-line. The
wrong people trick you into giving out information
a little here and there
on-line.. Before you know it, you have told them
enough for them to find you
without even realizing you have done it. I hope
you've learned a lesson from
this and won't do it again. Tell others about this
so they will be safe
too?"

"It's a promise!"

That night Shannon and her Dad and Mom all knelt
down together and thanked
God for protecting Shannon from what could have
been a tragic situation.

Even though it is not true, you can see just how lots of little things that seem to be unimportant can be put together by someone who really works at it to figure out some very important information. Take care all.

[Shotochem]

Hi All,
I still perfer to remain mostly anonymous. I feel I need to seperate my bussiness and family life from my hobbies and interests. I post as Shotochem on all forums I have frequented. I have discovered that all are not as friendly as this one.

The MA community is smaller than you think. We come across so many people over the years and My not using my real name allows me to freedom to question and openly debate various topics without offending any past instructors, students and friends or have to deal with anyone in the real world who disagrees with me. I will never use a persons name in a negative or disrespective manner on any forum. On rare occassion, I have given praise to persons or instructors I have trained under only because I hold them in high regard.

IMO, there is enough bickering, politics, and childlike nonsense in many MA orgs. I prefer to just train and stay out of it. I don't think of this as cowardice in any way just a means to do what I enjoy without people ruining it for me.

-Marc-

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Darn! My cover is blown. All this time pretending to be a 35 year old male while I'm really a 12 year old female for nothing....






Just kidding.



_Don Flatt

[Drac]

I have gone by my nickname for so long that I answer to it as though they were calling me by my first name..The Sgts, Lts, Cmndrs, and the Chief at my full time call me Drac..

[MAFHonolulu]

Interesting...I never really thought about the whole posting thing that way.
I just never posted my real name (or whole name) because I figured it doesn't matter. I'm still the same person, and people still deserve the same respect from me regardless of whether they know my real name. I guess I just don't put that much weight in a name? Food for thought, this post is.

JENNY KNIGHT :)

[Mary Chant]

I appreciate hearing about the pros of anonymous posting; I hadn't thought of some of the reasons used before reading this. I use my real name as my username just as a personal check on myself. Knowing that my real name is going to show up along side whatever I post helps prevent me from posting things out of a hasty ego or anger response; it prevents me from activating my "Oh Yeah!?" button, which has resulted in more than a couple mea culpas over the years.

Mary

[KEritano]

Has anyone had their IP address compromised so someone can either use your IP address or try to pose as you?

[Bob Hubbard]

Don't need to be compromised, any spoofer will work fine.

[Tez3]

I used Tez as a user name originally as when I logged on an MMA website over the computer at work because it felt easier to post if people didn't know I was female,then when I got a computer at home it seemed just as eaasy to carry on with it. Now at shows and when training so many people know me as Tez I quite happily answer to it as well as Irene. I rarely tell anyone my date of birth, not for security though....vanity!! if it's a random enquiry I always lie lol yep always take ten years off! (Not on MT though!)

[rusty nail]

Excellent thread and I am really enjoying the entire site.

The thoughts expressed herein are respected. As to the issue of Identity Theft, there is really no way to completely avoid it. I am very careful with my information and I have had my identity stolen several times. The most recent was due to the theft of my information by an employee of a credit reporting agency.

I helped a co-worker whose first inking that his identity had been stolen was when he received a whopper of a bill from the Internal Revenue Service for taxes owed on defaulted lines of credit. It took us over a year to get the mess straight and he had to literally fight everybody.

As far as I can tell the only way to insure yourself against identity theft in any truly meaningful manner is to completely destroy your own credit to the point that it is not usable by an identity thief. The offense of Identity Theft is hardly ever prosecuted and it is a low risk way to turn a nice illicit profit.

Now as to using my real name on line; when it suits me, I do so. There are many sites on the net who are not actually who they claim to be either. One chat room that I visited on a very limited basis is run out of the Psychology Dept. of the University of New Mexico. They, as a whole, are very abusive; I presume they are doing case studies of one kind or another on the unsuspecting.
It is a very simple axiom that the person presenting him or her self to you on the net really may not be the person they claim to be. As far as personal meetings; completely out of the question for me. I'm not looking for dates or a good time on the net. I simply enjoy sharing the ideas of others; there have been many times that I have found it to be extremely instructive.

In any event; please keep up the high standards that you have here, from everything I've seen, I like it.

All the best !!

[rusty nail]

Excellent thread and I am really enjoying the entire site.

The thoughts expressed herein are respected. As to the issue of Identity Theft, there is really no way to completely avoid it. I am very careful with my information and I have had my identity stolen several times. The most recent was due to the theft of my information by an employee of a credit reporting agency.

I helped a co-worker whose first inking that his identity had been stolen was when he received a whopper of a bill from the Internal Revenue Service for taxes owed on defaulted lines of credit. It took us over a year to get the mess straight and he had to literally fight everybody.

As far as I can tell the only way to insure yourself against identity theft in any truly meaningful manner is to completely destroy your own credit to the point that it is not usable by an identity thief. The offense of Identity Theft is hardly ever prosecuted and it is a low risk way to turn a nice illicit profit.

Now as to using my real name on line; when it suits me, I do so. There are many sites on the net who are not actually who they claim to be either. One chat room that I visited on a very limited basis is run out of the Psychology Dept. of the University of New Mexico. They, as a whole, are very abusive; I presume they are doing case studies of one kind or another on the unsuspecting.
It is a very simple axiom that the person presenting him or her self to you on the net really may not be the person they claim to be. As far as personal meetings; completely out of the question for me. I'm not looking for dates or a good time on the net. I simply enjoy sharing the ideas of others; there have been many times that I have found it to be extremely instructive.

In any event; please keep up the high standards that you have here, from everything I've seen, I like it.

All the best !!

A decent site if you sre concerned about Identity Theft;

http://attrition.org/dataloss/