The Best Art....Is There Such A Thing?

[MJS]

Many times, when discussing arts, we hear people say that X art is the best, compared to Y, A doesnt have B, so its not as good as C. The list goes on and on.

So, what makes people think that there is a "best" art out there? Is it because of something they saw on youtube? Something that they saw on PPV? Something that they saw someone else do, so they assume that because one person has success with it, it must be good.

IMHO, I think that there can be something learned from every art. Just because something works for one person, doesnt mean it'll work for everyone. I've added things to my training from other arts.

This isn't a thread to talk about the pros/cons of cross training. Lately, I've seen some threads with people saying that art A is the best for everything.

[terryl965]

Mike I truely believe there is no best Art but only best fighters. Now I have always liked Vango, of course his earlier work. Just Kidding http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif, you know TKD and Okinawa Karate has made a nice fit for me and the seminars and working with other MA'ist out there has help fill in the gaps.

I'm with you looking around to find tidbits that will help fill the gaps is well worth the time and effort and the people you get to meet and train with are just awesome.

[14 Kempo]

I believe there is no one true art, or one best art. They all have their positives and negatives. I agree with Terry, mix it up. The best art depends on the distance between the fighters. One could argue that from long distance, Tae Kwon Do, or an art that incorporates kicking as a majority would be best. Kempo or another striking art for midrange. Muay Tai, or other such arts, for that close range fighting. I'm sure it would be Judo or like arts for taking it to the ground. Then I don't think too many would argue that JuiJitsu and other grappling arts are best on the ground.
In many cases it takes a lifetime, or close to it to master any one art, so how then can any single art be the best of all arts. Nobady has the amount of time on Earth to master it all ... just MHO.

[CuongNhuka]

"People diserve the right to free speach as a payment for the right of free thought, which they so rarely use." Soren Kirkegaard.
OK, I probably mis-worded that, but you get what I'm saying. http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Kacey]

The best art is the one you, the practitioner, can stick with, can participate in for the long haul, so that you can continue to learn and improve. No matter how good the art, how many ranges it covers, etc., if you can't stick with it, the rest of it doesn't matter.

[MJS]

Mike I truely believe there is no best Art but only best fighters. Now I have always liked Vango, of course his earlier work. Just Kidding http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif, you know TKD and Okinawa Karate has made a nice fit for me and the seminars and working with other MA'ist out there has help fill in the gaps.

I'm with you looking around to find tidbits that will help fill the gaps is well worth the time and effort and the people you get to meet and train with are just awesome.

You bring up some good points Terry. :) Interestingly enough, I've mentioned gaps, holes in certain aspects of training. The usual reply is, "There is not necessarily a gap in the art, but instead in the way you understand it." In other words, supposedly the art is fine, but because we dont understand the deeper meaning of it all, we think that there is a gap, when there really isn't. Sorry, but I just can't buy that.

Hmm...looks like I shouldn't have said that we can't mention cross training. :) That being said...I feel that if ground work is lacking, work with a grappler. If you need more work with your hands, take some pointers from a boxer. :)

[MJS]

I believe there is no one true art, or one best art. They all have their positives and negatives. I agree with Terry, mix it up. The best art depends on the distance between the fighters. One could argue that from long distance, Tae Kwon Do, or an art that incorporates kicking as a majority would be best. Kempo or another striking art for midrange. Muay Tai, or other such arts, for that close range fighting. I'm sure it would be Judo or like arts for taking it to the ground. Then I don't think too many would argue that JuiJitsu and other grappling arts are best on the ground.

Can't disagree with this statement. :)



In many cases it takes a lifetime, or close to it to master any one art, so how then can any single art be the best of all arts. Nobady has the amount of time on Earth to master it all ... just MHO.

Agree again. :) I think that this is why certain people frown upon more than one art. Thing is, for myself, I'm not trying to 'master' the art of ground fighting. I'm trying to learn some basics, to save my butt, should I end up on the ground.

[MartialArtHeart]

Well, you could always think of it this way... if you have a bunch of random martial arts.... you may have art A completely dominate art B, but then get whooped by art C; art C may in turn be defeated by art B. And then it goes on in that fashion... no one art could defeat every single other art...
but then again... the ones practicing the arts are human, and thus prone to error, or a just-plain-bad-day... as you've probably heard before, given the right set of circumstances, even a complete moron could defeat a trained fighter.

Anyways, I believe that martial arts is a series of strengths and weaknesses. haha, is anyone here young enough to remember pokemon? You had fire beating up grass... and grass whooping water... and water drenching fire...
sorry, but the analogy was too perfect... I had to use it! ;)

[Hawke]

The best MA I have ever seen is Celestial Martial Art taught by aliens...or was it the Magician Martial Arts...there was this Grandmaster that none of his students could touch him...hehehe...couldn't resist. http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

I have seen arts that covers long, mid, trapping, grappling ranges but do not excel in one particular aspect. I have seen others that concentrate in one particular range...long or mid or trapping or ground. A few do cover some of the ranges rather well. If there's a hole/gap in your MA then fill it up. If your gonna steal...steal from the best.

Personally I agree with Kacey the best MA is the one you enjoy. An effective MA for self defense. If you have the time, go visit other dojos/studios/local YMCA and play with the other kids so you can learn from each other and keep EGOs out of it. If you keep it fun and take care of your partner they will train with you again.

Cheers!

[tradrockrat]

When I achieved my black belt, my teacher took me to dinner and told me two things:
1. Now I had to teach.
2. Now I had to go try out another Martial Art.

He told me that these were vital to my continued growth as a martial artist because I would receive a new appreciation and understanding of martial arts from both. He was right. I trained in two very different MA's that offered something my Bando training did not emphasis as much. Did I master Jiu Jitsu or TKD? No, to this day I hold no official rank in either system what so ever - by choice. Heck, I am still trying to master Bando and will die before that happens, but Jiu Jitsu and TKD both helped me understand more about martial arts and most definitely increased my abilities as a martial artist.

[Drac]

Mike I truely believe there is no best Art but only best fighters.


I believe there is no one true art, or one best art.

An on going debate that will contine LONG after we have cast of this mortal coil and joined that big Dojo, Dojang in the sky

[Cirdan]

While there may might not be an art that can claim to be "the Best" all arts are not equal either. If they were we could all be studying at the Celestial Martial Arts Dojo.

[qi-tah]

To say that one art is the best for all situations sounds to me like an excuse to stop observing and learning from experience... and we all know where that leads! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

I agree with Terryl965 on this, no superior arts, only superior artists.

[terryl965]

You bring up some good points Terry. :) Interestingly enough, I've mentioned gaps, holes in certain aspects of training. The usual reply is, "There is not necessarily a gap in the art, but instead in the way you understand it." In other words, supposedly the art is fine, but because we dont understand the deeper meaning of it all, we think that there is a gap, when there really isn't. Sorry, but I just can't buy that.

Hmm...looks like I shouldn't have said that we can't mention cross training. :) That being said...I feel that if ground work is lacking, work with a grappler. If you need more work with your hands, take some pointers from a boxer. :)


Mike not trying to steal your thread but I have been studying the Arts for 45 years and believe me there are gaps in all arts and we need to find other so call arts to fullfill the void and truely enlighting ourself for the better person we can be. Cross training or getting extra training is the best possible way to become complete within. Sorry i had to say that.

[megat]

take what u feel comfortable using, that what i always do because in the end those technique are the ones that u goona use the most.

[BudoTiger]

alot of the argument of "X art is better than Y art" comes from history. when the practitioners would challenge one another to fights to the death. who ever won would take the other and his students as students. thats where alot of it started to my knowledge. some of it came from the argument that ALL fights go to the ground. that can also be argued against. i have seen and been in several that didn't. thats why the argument that jiujitsu is the best comes up.

granted some fights do end up on the ground and when they do i wanna know how to defend myself. the style of kempo i took before incorporated jiu jitsu in it and even though i am by far no master and probably couldn't take on a BB in jiu jitsu i do feel confident enough that i could defend myself.

we were always told no matter how good you are there is ALWAYS someone better and anyone can have an off day. training as an instructor i trained with people of ranks in kempo from purple belt (beginning intermediate) to BB. we all had off days. some of the days i would get the better of higher ranks. most of the time they cleaned my clock. lmao. its all in how hard you train and whats going on in your mind that day.

no one art is better than any other. it comes down to the person just like in anything.

[still learning]

Hello, IT is the person who trains very hard that makes any art "the best".

Most martial arts takes time to learn and to make it a part of you.

ON the streets....anyone can get a lucky punch/kick/hit and knock you out.
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One art most people do not consider is JUDO? You will find Judo is an excellant art for young children and very hands on training.

Judo is also excellant for adults too. Please look into JUDO more? ....you may find it as ONE of the many "best arts" out there. .......Aloha

[jdinca]

Yes there is. The one that works the best for you.

[brianlkennedy]

I am often asked this here in Taiwan by foreigners who come to Taiwan to study martial arts. My response is always the same:
Best for what purpose?
Best for whom?

The first question comes from my thinking that martial arts serve a whole range of goals; recreation, socializing, self defense, exercise, sport fighting, studying an interesting part of Chinese culture or as a part of religious training (i.e. Zen or Daoism), general character building or some combo of those things.

So the first thing I do is have the person list those things in order of priority; i.e. most important to least important. Then I can make a somewhat more intelligent referral.

As to the second question; in martial arts one size does not fit all. It is a never ending source of amazement to me how people think best is a quality that is inherent in the martial art. Best is a relationship between person X and martial art Y.

So before I make a referral to some particular art or teacher I take a look at the future student; young or old, in shape or not, tall or short, likes contact or does not, likes solo practice or wants to do everything in a group and so on.

Then after pondering those two questions, I can intelligently help the guy find the Best Martial Art for him.

Take care,
Brian

[Monadnock]

I would say the one that trains you to best accomplish what you set out to do.

It's almost like asking, "What is the best American automobile?"

The one that get's you form A to B. Style and mileage my vary. Ask a 16 yr old with his new license and you'll get one answer. Ask a 40 yr old and you'll get another.

I guess there is such a thing, but couldn't it change over the years? Or do all paths go up to the same mountain top? Seems there has to be a match between the art and the person. We can't just pick a best art, without knowing who it is suited for. Thing is, most beginners will not know what is good even for themselves. Trial and error until you find the right one is a start. But even then, do most have the ambition to stick with anything for life these days?

For some, the best art is one of self defense. Others, some mental stimulation. And even fewer others, it's something they live and breath daily. It is something they cannot and would not do without. It has become engrained in their lives, physically, mentaly and spiritually. Of course those three words are painted on almost every window and brochure you pick up in the martial arts circuit, but how many can really give you what you are looking for? When you find it, then I'd say that is the "best" art -- for you.

[mjd]

THe one I am doing is the best...........for me that is!

[tellner]

My own personal style, Warty Toad, is a perfect example of one that's good against some things and poor against others. I quite literally eats Mantis, Centipede and 10,000 Golden Bees systems alive. Jumping kicks and sticky tongue are second to none. But it's got no real defense against white crane. Newer variations like Warty Cane Toad use Poison Neck against Crane and Snake.

[Em MacIntosh]

I do fine with my karate chop, kung fu grip and ninja kick.

[Langenschwert]

All Martial Arts are cultural artifacts, designed to solve certain problems. I couldn't take my Italian Rapier skills out to a Medieval battlefield (time travel problems aside! ;)) and expect to survive, even if it's a wonderful and lethal Martial Art. It's just not designed to deal with that situation. But in a back alley brawl or a formal duel, it's just what the doctor ordered. In a firefight, my Ringen isn't going to do too much, regardless if I suck at it or not (and I _do_ suck at Ringen).

The test of a Martial Art is not "can it do everything?", but "does it solve the problems it's designed to?"

Some arts are a little more adaptable to varying situations, and that's part of the design for some of them as well. For example, should I have a four foot piece of rebar, my longsword skills will transfer quite well should I find myself in a situation where I'd need to use one to defend myself. My rapier skills won't transfer well at all.

Martial Arts are answers to certain questions. There's no point in criticizing a Martial Art for not answering a question outside its ambit. :)

Best regards,

-Mark

[Last Fearner]

My perspective and opinion...

The Martial Art is doing the right thing at the right time. We do not have to know every move, or be an expert at them all. We just need to know enough to respond successfully to any potential attack. If your attacker could possibly attack you with one of 10,000 different options, you don't need to have mastered 10,000 different responses. You could very well have perfected a dozen or so, which deal with each of a few general types of attacks as have been mentioned (striking - long, medium, or close range; holding - grappling, grabbing, choking, locking; and throwing - sweeping, reaping, flipping, and other take-downs).

What many people refer to as different "arts" or "styles" within the Martial Art, I call systems. The reason being that I believe the "Art" is all knowledge that exists, and all options available. No one can teach it all, or learn it all in one life time, but we can study a system that contains sufficient responses to successfully address all of the general groups of attacking options.

Some systems limit their categories by not working on the ground, or by not fighting close range, or against a long range kicker. This is where people find "gaps" that they want to close. This is what some systems have evolved into - - mostly by the choice of Founders and subsequent instructors in each generation. It is not the "Art" that is lacking, but the choice of the instructors and participants in any given "system" which chooses to weed out certain techniques or entire categories of techniques.

From a perspective of Taekwondo, I view this as a word that labels where it comes, and a philosophy for strategy more than the specific techniques contained within. The term "Taekwondo" was suggested in 1955 to give a name to what already existed. The word does not make up the Art - - The "Art" is what we do in response to an attack. Training in the Art is being prepared for that response. In recent times, people have said "I like the kicks of Taekwondo," or "I love to compete in tournaments, so that is all I want to focus on." The combat aspect of Taekwondo/Hapkido/Hoshinsul/Yudo is lost to them (eg: close range hands and elbows, take-downs, joint locks, pressure points, ground-fighting). Taekwondo is not void of these things, but some schools/instructors choose to proceed without it and their definition of "Taekwondo" becomes the publics perception.

In the history of any system of the Martial Art, I don't believe that any Master said to his disciple, "wait, you can't do that move because it is not part of our system." What they most likely taught and practiced was what worked and how to be prepared if an attacker did "A," "B," or "C." You don't have to be as good of a kicker as your opponent to have successful defenses against a kick, but not knowing how to kick at all, limits your options, and might prevent you from fully understanding what kickers do.

I don't have to be the best at throwing to prevent a thrower from defeating me with one throw. I can spoil their power, and know only a few counters that allow me to survive their throwing skill, and then resume with my grappling, or punching, or kicking techniques that I am good at.

I really do not believe that we have to run out to a Judo school (or invite a Judo instructor to our Dojang) to train in throwing, however research must be done to learn it right. I have seen many Taekwondo instructors who threw with poor skill - - it doesn't have to be that way. I don't have to become a Black Belt in jujutsu (jujitsu, juijuitsu, etc) in order to perfect my ground-fighting skills within my Taekwondo training. Nor do I believe that an Aikido practitioner needs to start doing jump spin hook kicks in order to be adept at avoiding the impact of a kick.

The only "gap" in any system within the Martial Art, is not having a adequate repertoire of responses to whatever your opponent throws at you. Observe other people doing other methods and systems. Train in them if you want, but I do not believe you need to go outside of your own system to close those gaps. Just find out what those gaps are and train to prevent the penetration through that gap.

That's my personal opinion.
CM D.J. Eisenhart

[Hand Sword]

For my answer I would say that there is a "best art". I base this on any individual that studies and practices. They search out, try some, move on during their journey. Eventually they find one that catches their attention, where they then take up its study. Further along the path, through trial and error, addition and subtraction, etc.. they find their way. Being happy and satisfied, they've found the best art.

[Balrog]

Many times, when discussing arts, we hear people say that X art is the best, compared to Y, A doesnt have B, so its not as good as C. The list goes on and on.

So, what makes people think that there is a "best" art out there?

Oh, absolutely there is.

It's the art that you enjoy the most, the one that stresses your mental and physical development, the one where you leave the school sweating and smiling.

Actually, as far as comparisons of the arts, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Put any two people from different styles together in competition and the one who has better mastery of his style will probably win.

[Tong Po]

Muay Thai is the BEST art......for me! I have fun doing it so it's not too hard for me to get off the couch and train. BJJ is a great art....not for me though because I didn't truly love doing it. I had a great world renowned instructor, great training partners and facilities.....but it seemed like a chore to me.

Every art has it's strength's and weaknesses. I say find an art you enjoy and have at it!

[zDom]

Sigh. How many times must we go over this?

Sinanju, the Sun Source of ALL martial arts is the best! (All other being but shadows of Sinanju ...)

Naturally, since the place of origin, Sinanju, is in Korea, KOREAN martial arts are the best, being closest to the source!

And of THOSE, we all know hapkido to be the closest thing to Sinanju available to The Masses.

Now go eat your stinky hamburgers — I have soap operas to watch!


:)


(Ya'll know I'm just kidding....right? Well... MOSTLY just kidding :D)

[Kacey]

Sigh. How many times must we go over this?

Sinanju, the Sun Source of ALL martial arts is the best! (All other being but shadows of Sinanju ...)

Naturally, since the place of origin, Sinanju, is in Korea, KOREAN martial arts are the best, being closest to the source!

And of THOSE, we all know hapkido to be the closest thing to Sinanju available to The Masses.

Now go eat your stinky hamburgers — I have soap operas to watch!


:)


(Ya'll know I'm just kidding....right? Well... MOSTLY just kidding :D)

All hail Chiun, Master of Sinanju! :uhyeah:

[Em MacIntosh]

Shinanju teachers are in short supply these days...

[Slihn]

Of course we all know that they is no "best" or "worse" art.What might be best for one person might be useless to another.For example I short bulkly fighter with long arms will most likely have a hard time perfecting I Martia Art the emphasies kicks,like TKD. I believe in the JKD concept."Simply accept what is useful and reject what is useless."In that method you will find what is the "best" art for you .