instructing the blind

[tshadowchaser]

I know we have had a few threads on teaching the handicapped before but I would like this one to keep to teaching the blind.

If you have ever had a blind student and would you care to share some of the things you experienced teaching this student?
What where some of the problems you encountered and how did you over come them?
Did they eventually spar?
Also any funny stories that you might like to repeat on what happened while teaching them?

[tellner]

We did a couple self defense workshops for blind students. There were pluses and minuses. For the totally blind long range hitting wasn't really an option. But when they were in close they had sensitivity like nobody else. Explicit verbal instructions worked well. Most were very comfortable grappling.

[Kacey]

I had a woman come in and want to take the class; we arranged a day for her to start, and I started planning for her, but she never came - so I can tell you what I was planning, but not if it would have worked for her or not.

Since so much of TKD is based on stances, and on moving in stances, I bought a large quantity of thick, soft rope, and a lot of sandpaper (cut into strips and taped together), which I was going to use so she would have a guide when walking down the floor - I couldn't use anything permanent because I teach at a Y, and other people use the same room I do. I did use the materials with my other students, and made them perform blindfolded - both in line drills (that's what the rope was for, to mark of "lanes" of travel) and patterns - which they're used to doing blindfolded, but I also made models of the pattern diagrams out of the strips of sandpaper and had them do patterns blindfolded using the strips as guides. The rope worked pretty well, but the sandpaper was a little too easily ripped.

[Fang]

I'd like to bump this thread with a twist... Does anyone train their forms and such in pure darkness or with little or no light?

[Kacey]

I'd like to bump this thread with a twist... Does anyone train their forms and such in pure darkness or with little or no light?

Close - with blindfolds, the ones designed to help people sleep, so they come down over the cheekbones and really cut off sight. I've done line drills that way too - sometimes with rope as described above, sometimes without; it depends on the size of the room and how far apart people can be placed.

[Hawke]

Currently I just stand on one leg for 30 secs with my eyes closed.

Eventually I would like to do some kali reflex drills with my eyes closed.

[theletch1]

I know we have had a few threads on teaching the handicapped before but I would like this one to keep to teaching the blind.

If you have ever had a blind student and would you care to share some of the things you experienced teaching this student?
What where some of the problems you encountered and how did you over come them?
Did they eventually spar?
Also any funny stories that you might like to repeat on what happened while teaching them?
The closest I've come so far is a fellow who was completely blind in his right eye and losing sight quickly in his left due to macular degeneration. Any attack from his right side was pretty likely to catch him unaware so he had to keep his head moving a little more than others looking for attacks. Working defense against grips was fine for him 'cause once he could feel you he had you. It's gonna be difficult to teach the blind to attack at all from a distance and defense from many attacks would be difficult as well. But, as Tellner pointed out, grappling is great and from my own observation any defense that starts from a grip or grab situation is taught to the blind as easily or even a bit more easily than to the sighted as the blind are not overloaded by the extra sensory input of the eyes.

[Drac]

I'd like to bump this thread with a twist... Does anyone train their forms and such in pure darkness or with little or no light?

We do a lot of low light and no light shooting..We have yet those conditions to the hand-to-hand portion, we should..

[PictonMA]

While he's not my student I have worked a lot with a gentleman who has been with my Sensei for 15 or so years and is completely blind (from diabetes - lost his eyesight about 25 years ago).

Working with him has always been a great joy and the benefits always outweighed the challenges.

I always found that if you used *very* specific verbal instructions he would follow them to a tee and when needed hands on positioning of his arms, hips, whatever would put on the finishing touches.

Lots and lots of repition to build muscle memory (much as is required for sighted people).

The biggest single challenge was directional orientation in kata, after a turn of 180 or 270 degrees often his angles would be off a bit (45 and 90 degrees weren't as much of an issue). But with enough tweeking and repitition those small flaws could be ironed out.

The greatest joy from working with him came when he went to Okinawa Japan and trained at the Jundokan with Miyazato Ei'ichi Sensei and other seniors and competed at the 1997 World Tournament held at the Okinawa Prefecture of Martial Arts, got a huge ovation from the crowd and was featured in a number of Japanese newpapers and media outlets. I wasn't there to see it first hand, but seeing the video, newspapers and hearing the stories brought a big smile to my face knowing all the hours that he and I put into his kata to get it so that he could stand and compete at that level.

[Bigshadow]

I'd like to bump this thread with a twist... Does anyone train their forms and such in pure darkness or with little or no light?

We have trained in very low light. Not very often, though. I honestly hadn't notice any level of difficulty in the low light condition, thus far. It some ways it seems easier.

[mrhnau]

We do a lot of low light and no light shooting..We have yet those conditions to the hand-to-hand portion, we should..
NO light shooting? I hope you guys have good life and medical insurance!

[Kacey]

The greatest joy from working with him came when he went to Okinawa Japan and trained at the Jundokan with Miyazato Ei'ichi Sensei and other seniors and competed at the 1997 World Tournament held at the Okinawa Prefecture of Martial Arts, got a huge ovation from the crowd and was featured in a number of Japanese newpapers and media outlets. I wasn't there to see it first hand, but seeing the video, newspapers and hearing the stories brought a big smile to my face knowing all the hours that he and I put into his kata to get it so that he could stand and compete at that level.

What a great story - thanks for sharing! So many people forget that MAs are for everyone - not just the stereotypes seen in movies.

[ChingChuan]

If you have ever had a blind student and would you care to share some of the things you experienced teaching this student?
What where some of the problems you encountered and how did you over come them?
Did they eventually spar?
Also any funny stories that you might like to repeat on what happened while teaching them?

I'm no teacher, nor blind, but maybe this is useful to you.

Only one of my eyes works properly, but fortunately, I can see quite well with the eye that's still left.
I tend to have problems with copying the teacher (you know, when he explains something), and with seeing an attack come. Also, I have a very bad coordination - apparently my right side is less developed or something.
So, I guess that those are about the same problems but less... severe (?) that entirely blind people encounter.

Well, the worst thing is that when you practise with someone, you don't see it coming and then you are either hit very hard or the person thinks you weren't paying attention. When you're entirely blind it isn't really strange, but you can't see that I've only got one eye, so that's sometimes quite annoying.

And, like someone else said, there's always the problem of seeing not enough - I need to turn my head more often when I need to see something to the right. In the beginning I had problems with the right pasang (pasang pancar) because then I couldn't see anything but now I've managed to overcome that problem (even though I don't really know how...). And kicks on the right side tend to be a little... strange because I can't see half of them :P.

However, my instructor (and most of the people I train with) know it, so sometimes he explains something a bit more or he manually positions me. Especially with the kicks, he shows me how it's supposed to feel by putting my leg in the correct position etc and when I know how it is supposed to feel, it's a lot easier to replicate.
Also, he does some uh... reaction speed drills with me so I can learn to see the attack coming (usually I see it too late, when it's about to hit and you need to respond when the person has started moving).

Regarding sparring, they won't allow me to spar :(. I really hope I'll be able to do so in the future, but everyone thinks it's too dangerous.

[theletch1]

We have trained in very low light. Not very often, though. I honestly hadn't notice any level of difficulty in the low light condition, thus far. It some ways it seems easier.
It seems easier because when you have all of the extra input from your eyes you tend to subconsciously react to the extra stimulus. With the lower light you rely more on the vagueries of what's going on and react without the extra bits of information screaming at you to do something that isn't needed for the defense.

[jks9199]

NO light shooting? I hope you guys have good life and medical insurance!
It's called preparing for reality...

Murphy's Law applies to cops in spades. If you've just tested your flashlight, got a brand new tac light on your gun with brand new bulbs and batteries, and you find yourself on moonless night in the darkest part of town, where leaves from the trees are blocking the little bit of starlight, chasing a guy with a gun... Or you find yourself clearing a house with no windows in the basement -- that's where you're gonna find your burgar. And I can almost guarantee that your lights will all fail, and clouds will roll in from nowhere. You'd better have some idea how to shoot without extra light, except the little bit that's there...

No, we don't shoot in pure pitch black no-light situations without using a flashlight or other light, because we are responsible for each round we fire, and where it goes.

[Bigshadow]

It seems easier because when you have all of the extra input from your eyes you tend to subconsciously react to the extra stimulus. With the lower light you rely more on the vagueries of what's going on and react without the extra bits of information screaming at you to do something that isn't needed for the defense.

This is why I believe the feeling of it is very important. The feeling of it doesn't really depend on sight.

[mrhnau]

It's called preparing for reality...

No, we don't shoot in pure pitch black no-light situations without using a flashlight or other light, because we are responsible for each round we fire, and where it goes.
at least IMO, there is a huge difference between no light and flashlight. flashlight training? I can see the merit of that. Shooting in the dark? I can't see any point.

well, I'll take that back... perhaps as a test of situational awareness/knowledge of where other cops are... or perhaps using night vision equipment? I suppose shooting with a night goggles on could be challenging.

[tellner]

Guys, the thread hijack is interesting, but could it possibly be split off into a separate one? The original and this just aren't quite close enough.

[tellner]

The article is long gone, but I still remember it...

Back when we were doing the experimental workshops with blind people from totally blind from birth to just severely impaired there was a very interesting article from Philadelphia. A man who was TBFB was attacked by a mugger. Unfortunately for the mugger he had a lifetime of experience in Judo and wrestling. He'd even won a number of trophies in regular competition.

After taking ******* to the ground he said essentially "Are you going to be cool and leave me alone?" The mugger agreed. As soon as he got up he started threatening to shoot our hero. That earned him a hard throw headfirst into the pavement accompanied by a fatal skull fracture and dislocated neck.

The DA waited almost a whole day before deciding not to seek an indictment.

I suppose he had to go through the formality. Imagine the scene in the courtroom...

"Your honor, this man viciously attacked and murdered the deceased on the street in broad daylight. Stand up and face your accusers! Uh, no. You're pointed towards the judge. Turn a bit to your left..."

"Bailiff, please escort the accused back down from the jury box and the hell out of my courtroom. What are you trying to pull, counselor? I have to stand for re-election this Fall." :)

Seriously, for someone with severe visual impairment most striking arts and certainly the long range ones are going to be a problem. Closer in ones which rely on body sensitivity and grappling will rely less on the areas where they are weak and play more to the attributes which they have had to develop. Sensitivity-based close-in ones like WC, many systems of Silat, the little bit of Southern Mantis I was exposed to and similar - ones where you make contact and work from there - are probably good choices.

[tshadowchaser]

Please keep the ideas on teaching the blind coming. I started this thread because of a new student I have who is totally blind.
I have found that the student has an excellent memory and once she has done a technique correctly she is able to do it again. Hands on training and moving her hands through the correct positioning for a block has helped. Constant verbal ques and corrections with a positive tone of voice has helped.
On self defense I have started her with defenses against hand grabs, shirt grabs, head locks, etc. I have told her that sooner or later she will have to defend against that punch she can not see but to react to the hand touching her as she would against a grab. I am also going to teach her the old way of sparring: when you touch someone you grab and hold on and pound then till they fall.
Forms I can tell will be harder to instruct as the angles confuse her sometimes but i have placed bamboo sticks on the floor to help her find the angles on some of the moves.

[Kacey]

Well, if you're looking for specific ideas, I have some suggestions of exercises we do in class:

Sticky hands - two people face each other in a fighting stance, foot to foot, with their lead hands touching back to back. One person leads and the other follows; the lead person moves his/her hand randomly, and, at random intervals, attempts to touch the following person with the lead hand, while the following person attempts to block. This is a great drill for all students - it teaches them relaxation under stress and reaction time. Variations include using the other hand or both hands; other variations appear as I see things my students need to work on.

Duck, duck, goose variations - students form a circle and sit down on the floor. One person walks around and/or through the circle, attempting to touch a person on the floor without the person catching them. Students who think the person standing up is about to touch them raise their hands; if a student is touched without raising his/her hand, s/he has to go to the middle of the circle and sit there until a second person is caught. This is an awareness drill, and very good for sparring awareness.

Snap drills - usually done in pairs, standing face to face with your partner one person (attacker) closes his/her eyes, while the other person (target) snaps or claps so that the attacker can hear clearly, leaving the hand in place as a target. The attacker tries to hit the target by sound; if the attacker misses, the target provides feedback to help the target zero in on the sound. NOTE: if the target is going to snap or clap directly in front of him/herself - BACK UP. Variations include multiple targets, louder or quieter snaps/claps, level of background noise, etc.

I would be interested in hearing more about what you do with this student - it seems to me that anything you come up with for her could be very useful for sighted students as well.

[bluemtn]

My instructor had a blind student (whom I've only seen at a couple of tests), whom he taught privately because she couldn't attend at regular class times. What I've seen is she did the forms quite well, with the exception of being slightly off. She still did the kicks, strikes, and blocks very well. When it came to sparring/ 3- steps (for us), she did self defense which included some sticky hands. It was really cool to watch her!

[ArmorOfGod]

http://dmoz.org/Sports/Martial_Arts/Disabled/Blind/
That is a list of some blind martial arts resources.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=129036147
That is a guy you may want to contact if you are looking for information on teaching people with different abilities.

AoG

[Fang]

Once upon a time we used to do an energy drill Where two or more people squared off to the front and we closed our eyes while the feeder/s tried to slowly pass into the applicants upper body region enough to touch them at a random spot. The idea was to feel the energy, warmth, presence, etc.. enough to intercept the appendage with deliberation, not force. Was kinda fun...

[tshadowchaser]

ArmorofGod thank you for those links

I have used a touch drill where the student (#A ) must stay in contact with the student in front of them as "a" moves and weaves around the room. If the student is sighted they must have their eyes closed tight during the exercise. I will vary it by having "a" throw a slow punch at times.
I also do a version of sticky hands but have not yet tried it with this student.
Also I have use the 3 count drill of Modern Arnis but and she is adapting to it well so far

[ArmorOfGod]

http://www.usaba.org/

That is an important link. It is the US Association for Blind Athletes and judo and wrestling are represented there.

AoG