how many of you have gotten into a street fight? [Archive] - MartialTalk.Com

muayThaiPerson

12-03-2002, 06:22 PM

how many of u MAist have recently or at all got into a street fight??im talking about during u being a MAist, not before. its totally different from sparring and tons more damage is done. gloves are only a burden to self defense.

i recently got into a fight(even with my messed up elbow). im not a violent person but this guy was twice my size. i was nervous, and that nervousness cauased me to accidentally break someones tooth and crack their jaw.

wat happend is school was just out and i was walking to jack in the box. 3 guys were hanging around, and when i walked in, they were talking sh** to me. i just ignored them. when i came out, there all like "yo gimme your money", i tried to walk away but i was surrounded. they grabbed me adn i pushed one away and almost got out of the corner. but one grabbed me and threw me to the floor. he came foward and i quickly got up and he punched me. my glasses were broken are being fixed now. so i pushed kicked him and jumped knee his face. i was stunned then so i just hit him twice and ran. i was running 3blocks before i figured out what happend.

so how many of u got into street fights and found the difference between the envionments?

Baoquan

12-03-2002, 06:30 PM

Yep, i've been in them, more than once....

It often happens just like it did to you....things happen before u know it, it feels $h1tty, and generally, u weren't looking for it.

Sorry it happened to you, brother, but it sounds like you did it ok.

...and doesn't it suck when ur glasses get broke?:rolleyes:

Cheers

Bao

fissure

12-03-2002, 10:06 PM

I got into several fights in my late teens and early 20's. It's been my experience that most guys like to talk crap and act tough, hoping their victim will cower and run away. I'm a fairly O.K. fellow but once someone goes out of their way to get in my face, backing down just isn't my style.
Things happen very differently in the street. There isn't much time to think or plan. I've found that before you realize your fighting, its pretty much over and done with. Also, most people throw a looping haymaker/cross type of punch that is a lot easier to deal with than a fast, straight reverse punch.
It's interesting to note how so many of the counters, ect. that seem so easy in training, don't spring readily to mind in a real situation.

Senfeng

12-03-2002, 10:44 PM

I grew up in a "not-so-friendly" environment, so I got into quite a few fights. You had to at least stand up for yourself. Otherwise, you were giving your lunch money away (or free lunch tickets). Now, I like food a lot, so naturally I often took or delivered a beating.

Is "street fighting" survival? Not always. Sometimes its just pride and sometimes its just pissing on an already marked tree.

When you're in a fight, everything is instinctual and reflexive. The trick is to make sure that you train your reflexes to respond the way they should.

I actually got into a fight right after Turkeyday. I think it was the most relax I have been while being outnumbered. I took MA as a kid and a teen, but this was the first time that I used martial arts in a fight. Recently, I've noticed that, to the dismay of my poor wife, my reflexes have been automatic.

arnisador

12-04-2002, 12:18 AM

One real streetfight (three-on-ne) plus the usual school scrapes (I started the martial arts in 9th grade).

ace

12-04-2002, 12:47 AM

:eek:

cali_tkdbruin

12-04-2002, 02:29 AM

Yup, here's my 2 cents. After you've been training for a good while, your defensive tactics just kick in automatically. For the most part you just do it to protect yourself without any thinking at all. Sheeatt just happens, Damn... :karate:

7starmantis

12-04-2002, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

how many of u MAist have recently or at all got into a street fight??im talking about during u being a MAist, not before. its totally different from sparring and tons more damage is done. gloves are only a burden to self defense.

i recently got into a fight(even with my messed up elbow). im not a violent person but this guy was twice my size. i was nervous, and that nervousness cauased me to accidentally break someones tooth and crack their jaw.

wat happend is school was just out and i was walking to jack in the box. 3 guys were hanging around, and when i walked in, they were talking sh** to me. i just ignored them. when i came out, there all like "yo gimme your money", i tried to walk away but i was surrounded. they grabbed me adn i pushed one away and almost got out of the corner. but one grabbed me and threw me to the floor. he came foward and i quickly got up and he punched me. my glasses were broken are being fixed now. so i pushed kicked him and jumped knee his face. i was stunned then so i just hit him twice and ran. i was running 3blocks before i figured out what happend.

so how many of u got into street fights and found the difference between the envionments?

I just want to know if you lost your food, or if you still had it when you ran off? :rofl:

I've been in several fights, not that I'm a violent person, quite the contrary, but for some reason people like to take shots at me. Growing up it was because I was the biggest kid I guess, everyone wanted to see what happened when you hit me. Now, all I can guess is that it is intimidating to some when they see you carying yourself with confidence. The last fight I was in, I think over a year ago, was when I went to help a friend of mine move. She was devorcing her abusive husband, and he was out of town with his girlfriend, so we were moving her stuff out. Well, he came home early, while we were there. Everything was cool, I was trying to get her in the car and we could always come back for the furniture. Well, he decides to start hitting her, couldn't have that, so I steped in, I was hoping it would be a controll fight, but he was a MAist himself, so it got kinda nasty, needless to say, she and I left in the car while he stayed there with the cops. It really was bad, I felt so shity afterwards as well, its just so negative, it really drains me to be involved in conflicts like that!

7sm

Master of Blades

12-04-2002, 01:05 PM

Not one on one....or three on one as it seems to happen to you guys. I've been in a rumble before. It was there school vs My school and I was just sitting on the sideline watching before I got dragged in. Having 4 people jumping on you trying to get at the ONE person on top of you hurts. And having to run when the police came wasnt easy either. But I usually can talk or blag my way out of that crap.

bart

12-04-2002, 03:13 PM

Hey There,

I've been in a few and I've done all right (still have all my teeth and only a couple scars). It's true, it just hits you out of the blue and then you do what you have to. It helps if your training makes things reflexive.

A question to all you out there, when I switched from Kenpo to Wing Chun and I was in a couple situations, for about a couple months, I found I had some hesitation before I could act. It didn't effect the outcome of the fights, but it was a head trip for me at the time. Has anybody else experienced that?

Since then it hasn't happened again even when I started new types of training. But of course my maturity and attitude has changed in recent years and I changed professions, so as a result my opportunities for fighting have decreased in number, especially after my kid was born.

But I'm curious, has anybody ever experienced hesitation when changing systems?

Senfeng

12-04-2002, 03:22 PM

I train in a "modified Wing Chun". The last MA I took was TKD. I recently got into a fight and I did hesitate. I think it was more to do with the fact that I was fighting people who didn't throw the repetitive punches that they do in class. I threw me off a bit, but it was a split second hesitation and I found that I was far more effective than before. The other thing I noticed was that during the fight, I was able to easily pick up on the errors in my fighting (stepping with the wrong leg, I should have done <?> instead, etc.). I went home and started practicing.

adrenaline

12-04-2002, 03:55 PM

About the glasses wearing broke thing, i wear glasses and I was thinking about contact lenses but I'm a bit relcutant in getting them because of the fear that they might slip away and down my eye if i was punched. Is this true ?

No, i've never been in a street fight luckliy, but s*** happens I guess, luckily you weren't hurt badly. I get a lot of people like that in London, England. In my school,guys respect guys who are able to act hard and mug people and are able to get crews on other people. Life's like that I guess. Pees me off that does though because I just don't fit in.

bart

12-04-2002, 04:10 PM

Hey There,

I've been punched in the face and had my eye swollen. I also wear contacts. I've never had any problems. I had to wear glasses for a couple days, but other than that, nothing. I would suggest disposable soft lenses.

It's always best, I think, to train in what you wear everyday. If you wear glasses, then train in glasses. Contacts are my preference because of the peripheral vision, but the choice is yours.

The advantage to glasses comes in knife training. You don't have to wear the safety goggles the other guys do.

Master of Blades

12-04-2002, 06:13 PM

Four eyed people rule! We have ready protection against getting stabbed in the eye! Wearing glasses can also be annoying though.......:shrug:

fissure

12-04-2002, 07:07 PM

I started teaching again this year , and found that my glasses were a total pain in the butt, especially during grappling/takedown movements. I switched to contacts and have had no problems.

Blackdragon

12-04-2002, 10:05 PM

What I hate is how your glasses can slide/fly off during training or sparring. Now, I usually take them off when I spar in class. I was thinking about getting some contact lenses, but it might be a little while before I get them.
I'm sorry you were jumped like that. But I'm glad you were able to get out out of it without TOO much trouble.
People like that tick me off. Trying to act all tough, especialy around their "buddies". I bet you they were
surprised with that jumping knee you gave that one guy to the face.
Did you ever see these guys again?
So far, I haven't gotten to any streetfights. But that doesn't mean I can't or never will. For all I know, I could get in a streetfight tomorrow. You just never know when your skills will be put to the test.

Goodluck and train hard.:asian:

arnisador

12-04-2002, 10:07 PM

...one pulled my glasses off. That was very clearly what he intended to do, and indeed it hindered me--my depth perception was off and frankly I was unnerved by it; not just the poor vision but the fact that the people mugging me obviously had a well-thought out plan.

Baoquan

12-04-2002, 10:57 PM

but, if i'm not msitaken, it didn't hinder you that much, did it?

arnisador

12-04-2002, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Baoquan

but, if i'm not msitaken, it didn't hinder you that much, did it?

There was one point where a kick came at me--I knew in principle to expect kicks in a streetfight but I had never been kicked at in a school fight and I was slightly surprised, though ready--and I could have caught it and attacked the knee with a downward elbow if I could see better. But overall, no, it wasn't a make-or-break issue, but it did alter the way I see things and put me in that unfortunate spot of having how I'd practice be different from how I was fighting.

Baoquan

12-04-2002, 11:36 PM

Me too. I spar without glasses, and defense is a LOT harder...i just dont see the finer indicators that telegraph gross body movements.

I'm strongly considering laser surgery...i HATE weariong glasses, and contacts irritate my eyes badly.

arnisador

12-04-2002, 11:53 PM

See this thread (http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1618) and this thread (http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3751).

I take off my glasses for grappling and often for sparring, but not always. It matters.

Master of Blades

12-05-2002, 12:53 PM

I'm not that blind so I tend not to train with my glasses on. I dont wear them all the time anyway!:asian:

JDenz

12-16-2002, 11:27 AM

I can't think of any serious street fight that I was in or saw that really went on for more then a couple punches really.

J-kid

12-21-2002, 12:47 AM

Ive come close alot of times , I mean to the brenk of a whole lot of people fighting at once, Almost fought good 4-5 people but they backed down. I havent been in any real street fights for some time. But i have been doing alot of NHB matchs with people around my neighbor hood.

JDenz

12-21-2002, 12:50 AM

I think they are only counting street fights. And don't fight in the streets, you are giving MMA a bad name. The politicians always bring up what you are doing everytime MMA becomes close to being legal

J-kid

12-21-2002, 12:52 AM

I see plenty of fights, High school and off high school. I have seen a fight that ended up in barb wire and that was cool, to watch any how. Its not like i could have broken it up both sides had alot of friends watching make sure it was fair. saw a fight this guys where infront of Mc.Dz and started punching each other one got one into a head lock and punched other guy right in the mouth , Can you say full dentist bill all his front teath and alot of back ones went flying out of his mouth some went into his gums and was blood all over. Those are just 2 of the newer fights.

Rob Wilson

12-21-2002, 02:45 AM

I have used my training once in a very bad situation that fortunately did not get too much worse. ( I posted this story on a different forum so I will make this brief..)

I interrupted a situation where two men were assaulting an elderly couple in a car. The men had smashed in a window and the woman was badly cut around her eyes and the man was in a state of shock. The assailants were particularly violent verbally and physically, and when I intervened they immediately came after me. I evaded their attack and fortunately another motorist stopped to help. Upon seeing the stakes change one of the assailants turned turtle and the other fled. I chose to pursue him on foot- I chased him for about two blocks whereupon he turned and attacked with an overhand right. I slipped the blow and swept out his feet. He hit the deck hard and I dropped in behind for a reverse choke but was stupidly concerned about hurting him too badly, so I switched him onto his back and into a forearm throat choke. He was on his back and clawed for my eyes but these were only more opportunities to lock him down. Now, I am not trying to sound tough or macho because normally I am not a calm person in situations like this- my legs shake and my mouth gets that bad taste in it- but I was very calm and took his attacks as problems to be solved. Also, I am not a grappler. I like sticks and knives but I also practice dumog and mano-mano. I subdued him quickly- lack of air to his lungs and blood to his brain ended the fight . I then flipped him over into an armbar and waited for the police, who showed up a few minutes later. The officer originally thought I was the bad guy but that confusion was quickly straightened out.

In any event, I was very calm and focused and I am not sure why. This is the only circumstance in which I have been forced to use my training and I am very glad that there were no weapons involved, because things could have gotten way out of hand. I was not hurt at all and feel quite lucky, but my trainers and instructors have my gratitude, also the men and women of the philippines to whose legacy belongs the art I study.

Anyway, thank you for listening and I hope this story serves some purpose.

Rob Wilson

J-kid

12-21-2002, 05:51 AM

JDenz was that adressed to me that last comment.

tshadowchaser

12-21-2002, 03:46 PM

I have been in a few street fights nothing I care to really get into. Lets just say that liveing in an area where drugs and crime where the major industry you watched your back alot. Most people in these areas do not pick on those that live there it is the outsiders that come through that you worry about.
Being in the wrong bar can also be detramental to ones health or the health of the drunk that swings at you.
I now live in a low key back woods area and the wanna be tuff guys in this area have no clue what true street violence is.
Shadow:asian:

MartialArtist

12-21-2002, 08:50 PM

I've gotten in my share of street fights, but any person who has gotten into one does not support it.

The human body is very fragile and has ability to seriously harm someone.

Ghost

12-21-2002, 08:59 PM

I have gotten into street fights and killed many people but thanks to my superior fighting skills i have always won

JDenz

12-21-2002, 11:17 PM

Yes Judo

SteelShadow

12-21-2002, 11:40 PM

I have had my share of them i worked as a security manager for a major department store.and you would be surprised at how hard a thief will fight to get away.I also was a bail enforcement agent for a few yrs .There was some pretty hairy times in that.Ive been shot and stabbed on more than one instance but thanks to martial arts and the grace of god.Im still here and no worse for wear.But its my oppion noone wins a fight. Even if you win the fight you dont WIN the fight theres to much negativity involved for it to be good for the spirit even tho at times it is unavoidable.just my 2cents worth

JDenz

12-22-2002, 01:43 AM

I agree with that

Michael Billings

12-22-2002, 02:50 AM

It is not unusual in my school for students to lose their contacts when punched in the head/face, they also lose them with accidental rakes with uniforms, sparring gear (real common to have the tip of a boot or handgear catch a contact), etc. We also fight without uniforms as they are not required sparring. When grappling you catch an accidental finger in the eye, or some other body part.

If you wear glasses you are required to take them off for sparring. I don't want to risk damage to the eyes, but also, that may be the first thing that goes in a fight. Might as well get used to it now. Some problems, but adjustments are made fairly quickly. Protective eye gear is allowed, but few avail themselves of it unless we are working knife sparring.

Re: the thread topic - the answer is yes, but not proud of it.

-Michael

Jill666

12-28-2002, 07:32 PM

I've been in a couple of fights- once another woman shoved a very petite friend of mine from out of town, so I dealt with it quickly & moved on. Unfortunately we were all drunk. Another time was my fault, I went out of my way to pick a fight and got one. This was before I began training.:cuss:

Now when I'm really P$ssed I'm more assertive and less abrasive. People tend to back down and the situation resolves more easily. Sound familiar?

Re: Contacts- I wear soft lenses and suffered no problems whatsoever- even being socked in the eye. Also, peripheral vision isn't impaired the way it is when I wear glasses.:erg:

Jill

white belt

12-28-2002, 11:00 PM

Been in a couple of dozen. Honest, I did not start any of it. I hung out with people of questionable communication skills, years back, and went places I shouldn't have. I wised up before my luck ran out. Some altercations were after I started training. If you practice with focus and conviction, the moves start flowing and you go on autopilot when assaulted. I typically had to regroup and actually think about the series of events afterward in order to evaluate what I had done! It's kind of like the movie "Being John Malkovich" when you enter that mental state. You are a spectator and your subconcious mind/reflexes push you into the backseat while they drive. I liken it to the closest definition of splitting in two that I could possibly relate to. Yes my training worked. It also made me more aware of the fine line between self defense and homicide. I stay away from the "evil hillbilly" haunts that I grew up around now. Don't want my son to send me postcards in care of the joint because I collapsed Gomers carotid. The people where I grew up don't film their family reunions, they just watch the next upcoming episode of "Cops" and hit record on the vcr. Saves money on a video camera and comes in handy for bail.

Now, I don't wear glasses, but I can give a good reason for wearing contacts. Had two guys set me up for an ambush that I knew from high school. The one in my left peripheral stepped in on my circle and I struck first with a stiff right hand. His partner lost his nerve after he saw what happened. We exchanged words as he picked up his friend from the floor and proceeded to help him pull the wire rim frames he was wearing out of the flesh of his cheek and brow around his left eye. I left recognizing my luck. To this day, over twenty years later, he thinks of me when looking in the mirror and shaving. The punch had to hurt and the rims sliced into him like he was a cooked ham. Those glasses he was wearing may have saved me from a severe beating. I feed the birds and garden now. The Do Jang is all I need for excitement.

MT Person, I think you showed great control of your faculties/adrenaline rush. You were wise in leaving quickly. I would definitely feel better with you on my side than staring me down!

Best of luck,
white belt

MartialArtist

12-31-2002, 01:05 AM

Nyoongar

12-31-2002, 01:54 AM

I've only been in one that you could classify a street fight. Some dude tried to smash a brick on my head at a trainstation. Luckily, the 2 lessons of Ninjukai Taijutsu I took taught me how to close the gap and grab his arm. He was pretty drunk, so I gave him an uppercut and walked off. I 've oftened wondered what would have happened if I'd missed his arm though.

GouRonin

12-31-2002, 02:45 AM

...is how many of you have NEVER been in a fight? Street or otherwise?

Nyoongar

12-31-2002, 02:53 AM

What about you, Gou?

SteelShadow

12-31-2002, 11:27 AM

No one ever wins a fight.Just because your the one that walks away dosnt mean you won.
A fight has to many reprecutions.To the body the spirit and in alot of cases legally.
Altho sometimes it is unavoidable no one should look for a fight and worse yet want to fight.
Any instructor that teaches students that love to fight or teaches students to enjoy fighting(alot do unfortunatly)Shouldnt be aloud to teach or take class.
The core of martial arts is to promote peace and self improvement and inforce it if nessacary not to promote violence...
Just my thoughts.....

JDenz

12-31-2002, 02:25 PM

I have only been in two street fights once when I was 14 I got jumped on the train tracks by a bunch of guys that had to be in there 20's and they beat me down like a red headed step child. And when I was 8 I got beat up by a bunch of older kids at the playground. I have never been in a fight besides for MMA besides that. A couple altercations but nothing that endd in major injury. (Hockey fights not included)

GouRonin

12-31-2002, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Nyoongar
What about you, Gou?

I have a big mouth, I like to drink alcohol, and I am missing that little switch in my head that stops most people from saying what they are really feeling.

What do you think?
:iws:

GouRonin

12-31-2002, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by JDenz
(Hockey fights not included)

They don't count? D@mn, that cuts the list mighty short now doesn't it?

Then again, you can't really claim you know the actual use of a bo kata because you've used a hockey stick in a fight can you??

GouRonin

12-31-2002, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by SteelShadow
Any instructor that teaches students that love to fight or teaches students to enjoy fighting(alot do unfortunatly)Shouldnt be aloud to teach or take class.

You're kidding right? Seriously?

Originally posted by SteelShadow
The core of martial arts is to promote peace and self improvement and inforce it if nessacary not to promote violence...
Just my thoughts.....

Wow, you're not kidding.

I have to disagree with you. Budo promotes those things. Martial arts don't promote those things.

MartialArtist

12-31-2002, 04:47 PM

A teacher that loves fighting should not be allowed to teach.

People who love fighting haven't been in a real streetfight where one can see what can really happen or are messed up in the head and have no sense of right or wrong.

I can see loving to fight as in safe conditions like the UFC, or the love of competing and training and the test of going through such vigorous training. A good instructor will help the person achieve their goals.

But a good teacher will never tell anyone to go pick a fight, or to get into street fights. The teacher will tell to avoid streetfights if at all possible. Any person who loves streetfighting is just signing his death wish.

JDenz

12-31-2002, 05:11 PM

for some reason everyone is mad at me at hockey I don't know.

GouRonin

12-31-2002, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by JDenz
for some reason everyone is mad at me at hockey I don't know.

Stop punching them in the face...Ha ha ha!
:rofl:

GouRonin

12-31-2002, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by MartialArtist
A teacher that loves fighting should not be allowed to teach.

On what grounds?

Originally posted by MartialArtist
People who love fighting haven't been in a real streetfight where one can see what can really happen or are messed up in the head and have no sense of right or wrong.

You're full of sheet. people who love streetfights have been in LOTS of streetfights. Why the hell do you think they love it? Not everyone wets their pants at the thought of a streetfight. The idea that steetfights are right or wrong is foolish. If two people want to roll then let them. Martial arts are often practiced to protect the village or your house or when caught in the bathroom unawares.

Originally posted by MartialArtist
I can see loving to fight as in safe conditions like the UFC, or the love of competing and training and the test of going through such vigorous training. A good instructor will help the person achieve their goals.

So because you can't see it then it's not right? That's pretty arrogant.

Originally posted by MartialArtist
But a good teacher will never tell anyone to go pick a fight, or to get into street fights. The teacher will tell to avoid streetfights if at all possible. Any person who loves streetfighting is just signing his death wish.

This is all just your rambling opinion of right and wrong.

white belt

12-31-2002, 06:19 PM

"Treat others as you would be treated". How does this apply? If you are attacked, pretend you are a Masochist. Enjoy giving. If you really are a Masochist, don't defend yourself. Enjoy receiving. If you wake up afterwards, have a smoke, and ask them if it was good for them too.

I enjoy, WITH ALL MY BEING, overcoming someone who would APPROACH ME to take my health or life. I teach others to enjoy it too.

A Sadist enjoys the PROVOCATION aspect and it is morally wrong to enhance their skills. This is where the difference lies.

You are ALL correct in your statements based on the above.

white belt

p.s.
Anyone familiar with Crazy Joe Devola on Seinfeld? He played a Karate expert who was under Psychiatric treatment. When visited by the character Elaine, on one episode, she notified him that his apartment door was wide open. His response? "Oh, I know.....I welcome intruders!". Good student? Bad student? Yikes!

SteelShadow

12-31-2002, 06:20 PM

Theres nothing wrong with controled fights tournements ufc ect.
I meant that the ones that like to pick fights or use there martial arts to intimidate or promote fighting.They should not be allowed to take class nor should they be allowed to teach these ideas to others.They are nothing more than thugs and bullies.And isnt that one of the reasons so many take martial arts to protect thereselves from these type of people?Why teach the ones your trying to protect yourself from how to be bigger bullies or thugs.
Not only do i feel they shouldnt take or teach class.
But the ones who use martial arts to promote bulling or violence has no HONOR.......

bob919

01-01-2003, 04:26 AM

encouraging kids to fight is stupid and immoral and possibly illegal if he actually tells them to go pick a fight

the only reason i dont like fighting is the abundance of knives and(even worse) guns I HATE GUNS nothing good ever came from them

anyway actually fighting and winning makes me feel good unless i hurt the other bloke too much

GouRonin

01-01-2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by SteelShadow
isnt that one of the reasons so many take martial arts to protect thereselves from these type of people?

I find most people in martial arts have serious emotional issues and probably should be in the arts anyways. The old adage that someone got beat up and went to martial arts to learn how to protect themselves isn't as true as you think.

Originally posted by SteelShadow
Why teach the ones your trying to protect yourself from how to be bigger bullies or thugs.

A lot of the guys who first came to Ed Parker for example were tough men who already were streetfighters who wanted an edge. Now some of these guys are the leaders of the genre.

Originally posted by SteelShadow
Not only do i feel they shouldnt take or teach class.
But the ones who use martial arts to promote bulling or violence has no HONOR.......

You're confusing Budo with martial arts.

GouRonin

01-01-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by bob919
the only reason i dont like fighting is the abundance of knives and(even worse) guns I HATE GUNS nothing good ever came from them

Yeah, who wants food ont he table and the freedom to do what we want? Those darn guns don't give us any of that!

Oh wait...

Well...no one wants to cut their food or use a lawn mover or cut hair. Those darn knives don't do that!

Oh wait...

Nevermind...
:rolleyes:

SteelShadow

01-01-2003, 11:41 AM

I myself have had students who were streetfighters and wanted to gain an edge.The diffrence is alotho they were fighters they were not bullies.Nor did they openly welcome fights they were just in a bad nieghborhood.And alot of times a instructor can help teach students that fighting isnt always the answer.
And if i am confusing budo with martial arts then i dont want to know the diffrence.
I was taught during all my yrs of training to live my life with honor.
And that just because I can fight dosnt give me the right to go out and beat up on anyone i can.
Or try to intimidate people because I can beat them.
These are the type of people i refered to in my previous posts.
The honor i was taught to incorperate into my everyday life helped me be a better person.
To many martial arts schools have lost that sense of honor there simply into the fight or compatition of the arts.And dont help there students beyond the physical side of the arts.Now theres nothing wrong with competion it in itself can be a good thing it provides a good chance to test your skills.And promotes good sportmanship.
But I think honor and respect of ones self as well as others is a big part of martial arts as well...just my thoughts

KennethKu

01-01-2003, 12:00 PM

Aren't parents suppose to teach their children honor and respect? Oh well. Too much to ask, I suppose.

KennethKu

01-01-2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by GouRonin
I find most people in martial arts have serious emotional issues .........

You speak for yourself very well there.

SteelShadow

01-01-2003, 01:18 PM

Yes it is a parents job to teach these values.As a parent myself i try my best to teach them to my kids.
But as im sure you know kids espeacily now days need all the extra good influences they can get.And an outside influence alot of times has more impact than one taught at home..

GouRonin

01-01-2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by KennethKu
Aren't parents suppose to teach their children honor and respect? Oh well. Too much to ask, I suppose.

Too many parents want to ship them off to the local dojo to be fixed like a car is with a mechanic.

The martial arts are what they are, "War" arts. Budo is a way of life.

GouRonin

01-01-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by KennethKu
You speak for yourself very well there.

I'll be the first to admit that I have issues. I just don't pretend that I don't and play make believe that martial arts are about giving the world a Coke and teaching it to sing in perfect harmony.

JDenz

01-01-2003, 02:35 PM

Ya alot of the people I have encountered in the martial arts have had issues. Actully alot of people on this forum have issues myself included.

Nyoongar

01-01-2003, 09:03 PM

Yeah.

I joined martial arts because I was very violent. Now after several years of training I couldn't hurt a fly.:D

white belt

01-01-2003, 09:25 PM

ALL human beings have potentially violent issues. A Martial Artist is a human being who has a better opportunity to see and realize this, through introspection in training, and do something to properly control it in themselves and others.

white belt

Nyoongar

01-02-2003, 01:03 AM

It's like I now understand my true capabilities and I am very frightened of unleashing such terrrible things upon someone.

JDenz

01-02-2003, 01:38 AM

I didn't mean issues like that I mean issues about getting along with othre people, issues with religion, issues with training.

bob919

01-02-2003, 03:36 AM

gouronin, i dont know if your joking or what but my prolem with guns is that it makes it to easy to kill and more importantly; to easily to get killed someone can kil you from almost a kilometre away and you could die instantly not even seeing the face of your killer.

Before guns were invented usually less than 10000 would die in a war but now its often over 500000. Guns are too much power for anybody

arnisador

01-02-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by bob919
Before guns were invented usually less than 10000 would die in a war but now its often over 500000. Guns are too much power for anybody

Populations were rising too--I'm not sure that it's that simple.

JDenz

01-02-2003, 04:58 PM

Good point. Todays wars involve alot more people. Not only that Guns usally offer a quicker kill then dieing because your insides fell out and you just lay there waiting to die.

GouRonin

01-02-2003, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by bob919
gouronin, i dont know if your joking or what but my prolem with guns is that it makes it to easy to kill and more importantly; to easily to get killed someone can kil you from almost a kilometre away and you could die instantly not even seeing the face of your killer. Before guns were invented usually less than 10000 would die in a war but now its often over 500000. Guns are too much power for anybody

Guns and knives are simply tools. You use combustion concepts every day when you drive your car and turn on the electrical lights. More specifically guns are often used to hunt for food and eat. Knives are even more and every day tool. From cutting with scissors to eating.

If you live in fear of the tools you have that's just silly. Respect tools but don't fear them. Guns and knives and the ideas they work on are not killing tools only.

Wes Idol

01-02-2003, 05:35 PM

My first instructor found me in a troubled life and quickly help guide me into the life I have today. Since my youth I had created much discord due to my choices of response to my external and internal environment. Although, life still went on. I have avoided many bloody altercations by swallowing my pride or calling people's bluff. Because of my past choices to do bodyguard and doorman work, those opportunities did come up.

Happily I can say that training curbs my addiction to violence.

Respectfully,

WI, HI
UKS

bob919

01-03-2003, 12:16 PM

guns are made to kill people or animals in general society you do not need to hunt for food and if you do you probably dont live in popualated areas, knives however are tools aswell as weapons
i love knives but i think having a gun is too much power cause they can kill so easily you cannot possibly say the world is a better place with guns than without them.
and basically is someone has gun pointed at your head you can do nothing

white belt

01-03-2003, 02:59 PM

Good point! If someone breaks in my house, and my wife and baby are in danger, a gun pointed at their head means they "can do nothing". I LIKE THAT! Going to the range THIS weekend! You wouldn't be one of those motivational speaker guys by any chance? :) pow! :) pow!

white belt

GouRonin

01-03-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by bob919
you cannot possibly say the world is a better place with guns than without them.

I can...I will...and I did.

God created all men but it was Samual Colt who made them equal.

Master of Blades

01-03-2003, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Ghost
I have gotten into street fights and killed many people but thanks to my superior fighting skills i have always won

I'm sorry did he say killed.......:(

white belt

01-03-2003, 04:44 PM

I don't believe Ghost was serious. I think it's called "Dark Humor". The road kill pizza concept of shock humor for people who take themselves and these discussions too seriously (?). :)

white belt

p.s.
I need a flashlight! Anybody there? (Dark Humor)

Master of Blades

01-03-2003, 05:11 PM

I guessed........but that **** aint funny, even if it is proving a point to those involved......:shrug:

white belt

01-03-2003, 05:20 PM

Yeah, nowadays someone could be stackin' 'em up in a cellar somewhere and then get on a chat room with people THINKING he's joking. Not my cup of tea. Glad I study self defense!

white belt

bob919

01-04-2003, 04:51 AM

i agree a gun is good in a defensive situation but i ddont mean 1 gun i mean all gunsimagineif the people who try to hurt your kids had guns they wouldn't even have to enter your house to kill them they could get killed and you wouldn't know who killed them

I live in england so hand guns are illegal (meaning sensible responsible cant get them but crimnals can ) but i am not saying guns should become illegal i am not even agaisnt the ownership of them as they can be valuable defense, i am thinking in philosophical way 'what if guns never existed' - noone would have a gun and no one would be shooting each other i thnk it would be a better place. We all have our own views

white belt

01-04-2003, 10:24 AM

If I lived someplace where guns are against the law, I too would be pissed knowing there are thugs running around with an advantage. Heart attacks kill more people than thugs w/guns per year. I think the human heart is a dangerous thing if not cared for properly. Obese people, who drive cars, are endangering the people who are fit. Fred has a chest grabber while Mommy Ten Kids is going through an intersection. Mass murder! Fried bacon doesn't kill people....forks do!!:) I know, when was the last time someone got held up while looking down a package of fried bacon? GIVE ME YOUR WALLET! DON'T MAKE ME FEED YOU!!:) It is my hope that the handgun laws, where you are, change to allow you the option of having one for your personal protection.

Over here, in the good ol' U.S.A., we have a type of person called a redneck or hillbilly. There is a long standing problem where a hillbilly loses his temper and commits a "Brickin'". I have a long line of stone masons going all the way back to Scotland 200+ years ago. It is my understanding that the self defense of the brick started with the many bricklayers and masons who had one at arms reach when an unruly type attacked. Around the region of Kentucky and West Virginia, you will still hear of the occasional "Brickin'", on the news, to this day. It is a vanishing art.

A funny story: My Grandpa, (1869-1956) was laying brick, on the outskirts of a small town, back in the 40's. Someone was coming by at night and vandalizing the work site. He decided to setup a tent and stay there at night hoping to catch the butthole/s responsible. Well, in town there was a local who would brawl with anybody at the drop of a hat. Some misguided youths, that my Grandpa earlier had "words" with, gave Mr. Bully $5.00 to give Grandpa "the business". BIG mistake. The man decided to go see my Grandpa at night so as to get the drop on him. Word has it that some people who lived nearby heard some screaming and howling, at the worksite, in the darkness. They ran over to see what the problem was. Lo and behold, there was my 70 something Grandpa, mounted on young Mr. Bully, GIVIN' HIM A BRICKIN'!!!!:):):) The young ($5.00) financiers made themselves very scarce until Grandpa finished his job, the Bully's hats fit a little differently, the Bully could now predict the weather with his headaches and provided a constructive service for the community and Grandpa had no more problems with vandles. A happy ending, don't you think? I am direct lineage of the art of "BRICK DO" (c). According to news reports, (Brickin's), there are some who would claim that they are the true masters. But we know the real story don't we? Soon bricks may be outlawed. Wouldn't you like to learn the art of "BRICK DO" (c) before its too late? Remember, bricks don't clobber people, GRANDPA DOES!!!:)

Have a great weekend,
white belt

arnisador

01-04-2003, 02:33 PM

There are many stories in oriental martial arts of turning such items into weapons--the kai oar of Okinawan, the horse bench of China, and so on.

white belt

01-04-2003, 05:47 PM

I think of all of those perfectly good bricks being broken by Martial Artists. They could be training for a surprise "Brickin'" (c) I suppose. :) Point taken Arnisador. A talented, determined person can turn most anything into a formidable weapon. A handful of dirt on the ground is no exception.

white belt

Master of Blades

01-04-2003, 06:53 PM

I dont know if its just me, but has the past not proved that if we dont have something, then we just replace it with another. If the world didnt have guns we would probably all be walking around with swords or whatever. You get my point. I dont think the world would be that much differant.

white belt

01-04-2003, 07:22 PM

Master of Blades,

I agree. It might actually be a worse place. I don't think Ghengis Khan was packin' heat when he stormed most of Eurasia. Alexander the Great sure never had to bust a cap in anybody's butt. The Roman's nailed a guy up for suggesting we might try to get along. Hell, in modern times a guy named Jeffrey Dahmer used Chlorform and a Cookbook as his weapons of choice. I'm keeping my gun, thank you.

:)
white belt

Master of Blades

01-04-2003, 08:03 PM

White Belt,

Great post.......thanks for backing me up. I used to think very differantly about Guns but this thread made me really get thinking on the matter. I stick by my statement that the world would not change much without guns.

white belt

01-04-2003, 08:38 PM

Master of Blades,

A bow to you on reaching Black Belt! :) As far as backing you up goes, I have been left behind by the truth and run over by it. I find it is much more fun to hitch a ride when truth comes by. :) Thanks for the ride.

white belt

KennethKu

01-05-2003, 12:17 AM

Gun is for deterrence. A show of force is usually sufficient to deter aggression.

rmcrobertson

01-05-2003, 02:39 AM

The problem with guns is the one Crichton mentioned in "Jurassic Park," a statement so wise that he must have lifted it from somewhere: basically, he says that guns--like the fatal genetic engineering in the book and movie--give power that was acquired without discipline, so you don't respect it. Of course, this is true of a lot more than guns in this society.

KennethKu

01-05-2003, 08:29 AM

Yes it is true.

It boils down to your goal.

If you want to build character, learn MA.
If you want to deter crime, learn firearms.

This is not to say MA is not useful in self defence. A gun is no solution to every problem.

Astra

01-05-2003, 08:33 AM

Yeah. Besides, you can't just shoot someone who is only interested in annoying and nudging you. Unless you're a psycho :P

bob919

01-06-2003, 03:01 AM

a gun can end any fight even if you just point don't belive what your sensei says (dont try to disarm from 10 feet away) just damn surrender

GouRonin

01-06-2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Astra
Yeah. Besides, you can't just shoot someone who is only interested in annoying and nudging you. Unless you're a psycho :P

That's right. If they cheese you off then you stab them in the leg with a pencil. That will make them back off.

Baoquan

01-06-2003, 10:45 PM

Try making friends with them...then BAM!! The old fork in the eye.....

bob919

01-07-2003, 04:32 AM

the worst thing about the uk is thatthe laws stop the enthuiast getting guns but it doesn't stop the gangs getting guns

white belt

01-07-2003, 09:17 AM

Well...the street fight thing. How many weapons, (forks, bricks, etc.) have been mentioned in this thread thus far? Maybe the webmasters could start a contest to find out and the winner gets a free MT t-shirt.:)

white belt

GouRonin

01-07-2003, 11:18 AM

I'd almost pay someone to make sure I DIDN'T get one of those gawd awful looking things...

Kirk

01-07-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by GouRonin
I'd almost pay someone to make sure I DIDN'T get one of those gawd awful looking things...

"And I thank you for your support" --Bartles & James

fist of fury

01-07-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by bob919
the worst thing about the uk is thatthe laws stop the enthuiast getting guns but it doesn't stop the gangs getting guns

That's what we try and tell gun control advocates here. Just because guns are outlawed doesn't mean criminals will stop using them because thier illegal. Disarm the citzens and put guns in the hands of criminals.

rmcrobertson

01-07-2003, 02:51 PM

Oh, fiddle-faddle.

By the way, how many of the gun enthusiasts keep the gun out and loaded, all the time? Do you carry a loaded, cocked pistol? Do you keep one in your car?

It's kind of a rhetorical set of questions--my point is, of course, that if you do not have the gun right ready to go, it is exceedingly unlikely you'll get it an emergency. Even if you do have everything set--which is against every signle rule of gun safety I was taught or have ever heard of--you probably won't get the thing on target fast enough.

Oh, and here's another rhetorical question. If you've got a gun for home defense, what kind of gun is it? what kind of gun do you think of? I bet the majority think handgun; the right answer, a twelve gauge loaded with birdshot, just isn't sexy enough. Friend of mine, few years back, had to back some clown who crawled in through his window out of the house...he used a twelve gauge with a pistol grip that he found under his bed...only problem was, he damn near got shot when the cops showed up, to find him standing on this yutz's neck with the barrel screwed into his ear. (Best line: "What the hell were you doing, crawling in my window?" "Well," said the loony, "You didn't answer when I knocked on the door.")

Yep, just another liberal. Just keep the snarling to a min, please, keeping in mind that a) I was brought up in the country, and yes, I've fired guns up to and including a Sharps .50--but no handguns other than paintball, a game I truly suck at. b) Some of my best friends have guns. Lots of them. I have no worries about their ownership. c) My first MA teacher had a home invasion near her house a couple of years back, and they weren't able to catch all those bastards right away (eventually, they found the guy under a car across the street from her). She stuck a clip in the Taurus, and put it on the dining room table with the front door and grille locked. Good for her.

The fantasy (and largely, it is a fantasy) is that nine gangsters out of, "Cyborg," are gonna kick down your door as Western Civilization falls. If that happens, you're dead meat most likely. Thing to do for REAL self defense against the armed, is work to make sure that this scenario does not happen.

Personally, I have a Red Ryder BB gun (no, I'm not kidding) and a big back door. The arts have graced me with superhuman powers, and I feel sure I can get out that door and over the backyard fence pretty quick. They can have my 18 year old RCA TV and the Apple. That's why I got insurance.

But if I can't get out the door, or somebody else in the house can't--Ahura-mazda help them. As was already mentioned, the arts are a lot more portable and available.

Nightingale

01-07-2003, 03:34 PM

in my college ethics class, the professor asked us "are guns good or evil?" and requested a show of hands for each option. Most students voted for "evil." As I was sitting in the front row, my professor noticed that I had abstained from the vote and chose to pick on me. He looked at me and asked "Well, Kris, is a gun good or evil?"

I replied "A gun is simply a tool. It doesn't have the ability on its own to be good or evil. Whether a gun is good or evil depends on who's holding it, the intentions of the person who's holding it, and who its pointed at."

The point is... my philosophy about guns is very similar to my philosophy about martial arts. If you have it, you have the responsibility to know when and how its appropriate to use it. If someone is teaching a person how to use a gun, its common sense to include gun law and gun safety in the lesson. The same with martial arts. I think if you're teaching martial arts, you have an obligation to give them a complete education...not just the skills to use the tools, but the knowledge of WHEN to use them. Whether the student takes these lessons to heart is up to them. Whether you continue to teach them is up to you.