Getting Pounded Every Lesson

[Just4Kicks]

At taekwondo there is a guy my level, (blue belt) who continues to hammer into me every lesson.

He aims to hit, and hit hard! I get welts from blocking, he's vicious. My arms are covered in black/red bruises, which i have to hide from mum or risk not being allowed to go anymore.

I wouldn't mind if he went hard, without trying to hit me, as we are meant to. But he wants to fight full on, and I really hate it. I'm teamed up with him every lesson, he's in his twenties somewhere and taller than me at sixteen. I'm tempted to start a harsh regime and kick his butt. *frustrated growl* I haven't said anything, I get worse treatment than the blackbelts when they spar. But Master hasn't stopped him so.... Off to balm my bruises.

Any suggestions?

[Andrew Green]

Any suggestions?

The guy probably has a rather large ego problem, say something. Talk to the instructor and tell him you don't feel safe working with this person.

[exile]

At taekwondo there is a guy my level, (blue belt) who continues to hammer into me every lesson.

He aims to hit, and hit hard! I get welts from blocking, he's vicious. My arms are covered in black/red bruises, which i have to hide from mum or risk not being allowed to go anymore.

I wouldn't mind if he went hard, without trying to hit me, as we are meant to. But he wants to fight full on, and I really hate it. I'm teamed up with him every lesson, he's in his twenties somewhere and taller than me at sixteen. I'm tempted to start a harsh regime and kick his butt. *frustrated growl* I haven't said anything, I get worse treatment than the blackbelts when they spar. But Master hasn't stopped him so.... Off to balm by bruises.

Any suggestions?

Yes, some suggestions.

Tell the guy straight out you are sick and tired of his behavior. Ask him if he enjoys hurting other people during training, or if he simply can't tell the difference between contact and noncontact sparring.

If he gives you flack, go to your chief instructor, tell him what the guy has been doing, tell him that you feel you have to conceal your injures from your mother, and ask him to intervene—by providing you with a different sparring partner.

If he blows you off, leave the school. At this point, you have evidence that they do not respect you (a legitimate inference in view of the fact that you do not let people you respect be used as human punching bags).

What I find somewhat odd, I have to say, is that you seem to've been simply taking this abuse up to this point, instead of challenging it from the get-go. I hope you don't think that this is simply the way things work in the martial arts. They do not. This guy is an obnoxious bully, and if your instructor is a decent human being, he'll put an end to it right away, probably with some very sharp words for the guy who's tormenting you.

If he doesn't, you don't need that place and shouldn't be there. There are plenty of TKD schools to choose from.

[Carol]

At taekwondo there is a guy my level, (blue belt) who continues to hammer into me every lesson.

He aims to hit, and hit hard! I get welts from blocking, he's vicious. My arms are covered in black/red bruises, which i have to hide from mum or risk not being allowed to go anymore.

I wouldn't mind if he went hard, without trying to hit me, as we are meant to. But he wants to fight full on, and I really hate it. I'm teamed up with him every lesson, he's in his twenties somewhere and taller than me at sixteen. I'm tempted to start a harsh regime and kick his butt. *frustrated growl* I haven't said anything, I get worse treatment than the blackbelts when they spar. But Master hasn't stopped him so.... Off to balm my bruises.

Any suggestions?

I agree what the other folks are saying. Tell him to back off...I'd let your intstructor know that you told him to back off. Then if he doesn't, your instructor knows about the probelm when you tell him to get involved.

Keep in mind, your instructor may not know how hard he is hitting. Unless he is delvering body or head shots that knock you back 10 steps, or unless he specifically sees how mottled your arms are getting (not easy to do if your dobok is long sleeved) he will likely not know unless you tell him.

[IcemanSK]

Yes, some suggestions.

Tell the guy straight out you are sick and tired of his behavior. Ask him if he enjoys hurting other people during training, or if he simply can't tell the difference between contact and noncontact sparring.

If he gives you flack, go to your chief instructor, tell him what the guy has been doing, tell him that you feel you have to conceal your injures from your mother, and ask him to intervene—by providing you with a different sparring partner.

If he blows you off, leave the school. At this point, you have evidence that they do not respect you (a legitimate inference in view of the fact that you do not let people you respect be used as human punching bags).

What I find somewhat odd, I have to say, is that you seem to've been simply taking this abuse up to this point, instead of challenging it from the get-go. I hope you don't think that this is simply the way things work in the martial arts. They do not. This guy is an obnoxious bully, and if your instructor is a decent human being, he'll put an end to it right away, probably with some very sharp words for the guy who's tormenting you.

If he doesn't, you don't need that place and shouldn't be there. There are plenty of TKD schools to choose from.


I completely agree with exile on this!

[bushidomartialarts]

Ditto the above. Also, the sooner the better. Have the conversation first with the guy (it sounds like you have), second with the instructor, third with the owner and fourth with the school down the road.

[shesulsa]

I think the first course of action you need to take is talk to your instructor, show him the bruises from the blocks and ask his advice.

If he tells you to handle it on your own, then you have a choice to make. You can either speak with him, return in kind, deck him, or leave. I recommend the first.

If he says he'll take care of it, give him the opportunity to do so.

Seek out a mentor from the bb crowd - maybe one can give you some tips on handling people like this in the future.

[Kacey]

What they said... and a couple of other things, too.

You are there to learn, and learning often involves a few bruises. The key word here is "few". If you are getting so bruised that you're afraid your mother will pull you out - you're getting too bruised. That's the point at which it leaves "training" and becomes "bullying".

I would be concerned about you upping the contact level, because that could easily cause him to up it even further. It might not - but given what you've said about him, I'd be very concerned about risking it.

If you haven't talked to him - and shown him what he's doing to you - then you need to do so, and you need to do it in front of a senior (aka "witness"). If that doesn't work - or you don't want to confront him directly - then you need to talk to a senior and/or your instructor. If nothing else, this guy is creating a horrible liability risk for your instructor, and he needs to know it's happening before this guy goes past bruises.

Let us know what steps you've taken and how it's going.

[exile]

If nothing else, this guy is creating a horrible liability risk for your instructor, and he needs to know it's happening before this guy goes past bruises.

Good point, Kacey. The fact that this is supposed to be noncontact, and the guy you're talking about contacts aggressively, would suggest to any jury that there was no effective oversight in this school. Very bad impression to create—jurors often have kids, and can imagine what their own reaction would be if their own kid was thrown into an unsupervised meatgrinder.


Let us know what steps you've taken and how it's going.

Ditto to that. Please let us know how this plays out. A lot of us are worriers (with good reason, alas) and I personally would really like some reassurance that you're not going to be expected to go on playing cannon fodder for some unsocialized idiot.

[Tez3]

Brilliant advice from all the above and please do tell us how it goes, as Exile said we worry!

[kidswarrior]

What they said... and a couple of other things, too.

You are there to learn, and learning often involves a few bruises. The key word here is "few". Excellent point!
If you are getting so bruised that you're afraid your mother will pull you out - you're getting too bruised. That's the point at which it leaves "training" and becomes "bullying".There's a hard little corner of my hard little heart reserved for bullies--and especially those who victimize females because the bullies are male (read: larger, more muscled, generally socialized to be more aggressive, whatever). So, my first response woud be rather harsh treatment of this guy. :ticked: So we'll just skip my first response. :D


If nothing else, this guy is creating a horrible liability risk for your instructor, and he needs to know it's happening before this guy goes past bruises. Another very important point.


Let us know what steps you've taken and how it's going.Yes, please do.


Seek out a mentor from the bb crowd - maybe one can give you some tips on handling people like this in the future.

This, too, is very solid advice--the wisdom of experience.

Don't settle for being victimized in the training hall. You don't have to, and it's not cowardice or fear on your part to challenge bullying. In fact, it shows courage, and a true warrior spirit. (Uh, and if your Mom never got wind of a problem that's already been solved anyway, that would be Ok, wouldn't it?) So go for it! :enguard:

[wade]

OK, so, can anyone tell me how many females have come on this forum with the very same sob story?

Now, can anyone also tell me how many of said females have defended the attacker as "he didn't mean it- it was an accident- it won't happen again-he just needs some extra training-etc"?

It is amazing how often this happens and no matter how much good advise these victims get from experienced MA's it still continues to happen. Usually to them.

Nothing is going to change, sad, isn't it?

[Shaderon]

Only education will change it Wade, like any form of abuse, but people don't really want to listen until they've had enough.

gal06, I agree with what everyone above is saying. I'm the first to tell someone who's had a bit of a knock to "suck it up and keep going", but there's a "bit of a knock" and repeated battering. Getting hurt repeatedly isn't teaching you anything apart from how to get hurt, it won't make you accept it and get on with it, it will only teach you to get nasty with him eventually. As you say you are now tempted to kick his butt, it's already affecting you that way and I suspect that if you get harder on him, he'll get harder on you too. From there it can only go one way, tempers will flare and things will get worse and it's possible you will get blamed because you reacted the way you did.

It's also possible that he doesnt' realise how much he's hurting you, he probably thinks you are a tough gal and likes training with you so he can let loose a bit, so he needs telling. You may find that he didn't realise and will control himself a bit more afterwards, the instructor is probably the same, they might think you don't mind too

You've got to talk to him, if he doesn't respect your wishes, talk to the instructor.

Remember you aren't there to be a punch bag, the tenets of TaeKwon-Do include self-control and he needs to practice it.

[Kacey]

OK, so, can anyone tell me how many females have come on this forum with the very same sob story?

Now, can anyone also tell me how many of said females have defended the attacker as "he didn't mean it- it was an accident- it won't happen again-he just needs some extra training-etc"?

It is amazing how often this happens and no matter how much good advise these victims get from experienced MA's it still continues to happen. Usually to them.

Nothing is going to change, sad, isn't it?

Sadly (not to detract from the purpose of the thread, but this needs to be said) - this is also why so many women return to or stay in abusive relationships. There is a great deal of similarity between the 2 situations.

[Shaderon]

Sadly (not to detract from the purpose of the thread, but this needs to be said) - this is also why so many women return to or stay in abusive relationships. There is a great deal of similarity between the 2 situations.

I totally agree Kacey and what I was trying to touch on without actually saying it.

[CityChicken]

What they said... and a couple of other things, too.

You are there to learn, and learning often involves a few bruises. The key word here is "few". If you are getting so bruised that you're afraid your mother will pull you out - you're getting too bruised. That's the point at which it leaves "training" and becomes "bullying".

I would be concerned about you upping the contact level, because that could easily cause him to up it even further. It might not - but given what you've said about him, I'd be very concerned about risking it.

If you haven't talked to him - and shown him what he's doing to you - then you need to do so, and you need to do it in front of a senior (aka "witness"). If that doesn't work - or you don't want to confront him directly - then you need to talk to a senior and/or your instructor. If nothing else, this guy is creating a horrible liability risk for your instructor, and he needs to know it's happening before this guy goes past bruises.

Let us know what steps you've taken and how it's going.

Agreed. Communication can settle many of these conflicts. part of MA is managing conflict before it gets physical. Other thoughts:

If talking to your master does not help, I would consider another school b/c your master should be able to end this and does not have your safety in mind if he/she does not. And you need to feel safe in school.

You could simply refuse to spar with him. That will rasie awareness of this bully.

If you don't want to leave the school for whatever reason and he continues to bully you, remember that everyone have a few vulnerable spots/pressure points/soft spots. Nothing drops a male like a swift tap to the groin. But this should be a last resort and could escalate the aggression. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Just4Kicks]

Well I'm back from another lesson, with an extra bruise. Luckily I only had to spar him a little, the master swapped partners finally. Oh, and a black belt broke on of his ribs, the guy was really trying to lay it into him so I suppose he'd had enough. The black belt is usually reluctant to hit, I suppose he saw what the guy was doing.

I don't aim to hit, I just perfect my techniques. I like to go hard training, but its training. No need to pound eachother.

I'm going to talk to my female black belt instructor, she's been away lately.
She can give me some tips for next lesson I suppose.

The guy is always trying to proove himself, on lower belts and the black. If he gets things wrong he gets all defensive and is always trying to pick my faults.

Hopefully its done with, the other guys are really great and I won't let him ruin TKD for me.

[Kacey]

Hopefully its done with, the other guys are really great and I won't let him ruin TKD for me.

Hopefully you're right... getting a rib broken tends to get one's attention - although not always in a good way!

Thanks for the update :)

[shesulsa]

Well I'm back from another lesson, with an extra bruise. Luckily I only had to spar him a little, the master swapped partners finally. Oh, and a black belt broke on of his ribs, the guy was really trying to lay it into him so I suppose he'd had enough. The black belt is usually reluctant to hit, I suppose he saw what the guy was doing.

I don't aim to hit, I just perfect my techniques. I like to go hard training, but its training. No need to pound eachother.

I'm going to talk to my female black belt instructor, she's been away lately.
She can give me some tips for next lesson I suppose.

The guy is always trying to proove himself, on lower belts and the black. If he gets things wrong he gets all defensive and is always trying to pick my faults.

Hopefully its done with, the other guys are really great and I won't let him ruin TKD for me.

I'm glad you got a break. The only thing that makes me leery about returning with equal force is that this may escalate things. If it does, you have a real problem - people like that usually have attitude and/or anger problems which rarely go away and handling them requires precision and experience.

Please continue to keep us updated - I think this is more of a widespread issue (especially for women) than most people think.

[Steel Tiger]

Its nice to see that there are good, responsible people around. Just recently there have been a few too many reports of ratbags and wankers coming from Australia. It was starting to make us look somewhat dodgy.

I'm glad to see that this fellow's nature has become evident to others and an eye will be kept on him. It is always disappointing when someone like this disenchants novices.

Glad to see you've stuck with it and I hope you will enjoy and stay for a long time.

[Brother John]

At taekwondo there is a guy my level, (blue belt) who continues to hammer into me every lesson.

He aims to hit, and hit hard! I get welts from blocking, he's vicious. My arms are covered in black/red bruises, which i have to hide from mum or risk not being allowed to go anymore.

I wouldn't mind if he went hard, without trying to hit me, as we are meant to. But he wants to fight full on, and I really hate it. I'm teamed up with him every lesson, he's in his twenties somewhere and taller than me at sixteen. I'm tempted to start a harsh regime and kick his butt. *frustrated growl* I haven't said anything, I get worse treatment than the blackbelts when they spar. But Master hasn't stopped him so.... Off to balm my bruises.

Any suggestions?
I URGE you to talk to your instructor about it!
They need to know.

I also urge you to start stepping off line and learn to counter-attack WITHOUT blocking. If you step off-line from his attack and instantly throw a counter from another angle....then you will "Borrow" his force; meaning the harder he comes at you, the harder your hit will dig into him. Use it against him. IF he doesn't come at you that hard, then it'll just be a good hit. SHOULD have a psychological effect on him.

If the instructor lets it go on, YOU talk to him about it.
IF he continues....
start up that regimen. Go for GROIN kicks!!!! SWEEPS...etc.
If he's going to come at you in a way that is outside the bounds of rules, play his game better than he can.

Not so sure how SOUND that advice is. I might just be having a bad day (I am) and letting my mood talk for me.

Keep us abreast of what's going on for you.

all the best

Your Brother
John
PS: If you need tips on how best to go about this "stepping off line" attack, let us know. I doubt I'm the only one here that can relate good ways to pull this off well.

[Brother John]

The guy is always trying to proove himself, on lower belts and the black. If he gets things wrong he gets all defensive and is always trying to pick my faults.

Hopefully its done with, the other guys are really great and I won't let him ruin TKD for me.
He's an Ego shark and must be dealt with directly before he gets worse. Don't let him take the fire out of your TKD training for you.

Learn from this.

GOOD ON YA for stickin in there!!! YOU showed that perseverence is the key to progress, he'll never prove what he wants to prove until he learns the lessons you already have.

Keep up the chin!

Your Brother
John

[Sukerkin]

Some very good advice, as ever, from Exile, Shaderon, Kacey, Shesulsa et al.

It's hard to know what to add as all the important points have already been covered :D.

However, gal06, it is very important to keep in sight what your own goals are in training and not allow fellow students to spoil that for you. Yes, it is true that learning any martial art is, fundamentally, at first about learning how to fight. But it is also about learning when to fight.

From what has been said so far, it seems that, for a young-head, you have a good understanding that 'training' is not 'beating' and the chap you've been lumbered with has not yet learned this.

If your tutor is not aware of the problem then by all means let him know (after all, his/her eyes cannot be everywhere at once). It's natural to be reticent when you're learning as you're not sure where the boundaries lie; so let the person who decides this make it clear.

If the answer is that as far as the school is concerned you're being too 'sensitive' then, as others have said, find another school as the odds are against you being happy under such a regime.

However, if one of the senior grades got annoyed enough to give the fellow a 'serious attitude adjustment of the ribs' then it would seem that your erstwhile partner is the one with the problem and not you. I had thought until that news that he was perhaps being rough to 'teach' (Sensei Pain gets you to learn things fast :)) but it seems that it may well be he's simply not learned control :(.

The thing not to do is escalate your own physical responses in sparring. Generally that will only introduce more 'bruising'. I've been in a similar situation myself, many years ago, and when verbal interaction with my fellow student failed to achieve any satisfactory response, I tried 'stepping it up a gear'. That only resulted in my getting hurt even more :lol:. Eventually I learned to block/deflect smarter rather than harder and the problem went away.

Anyhow, enough 'sagery' - I hope that things shape up to your liking (and as Exile said, keep us informed as some of us are natural 'fretters' :D).

[kicksindabank]

Now it time for me to clear my throat.....

First of all, if this guy has to beat you to feel like a man, then he needs to find a therpist and fast.

Second, if the instructor sees this and still hasn't repsonded to it. Call it to his/her attention. People can get arrest for that no matter who they are.

Third, girl is time to unleash a big rig can of whoop a$$ on him. Let him know, don't let the gender fool you.

[Sukerkin]

Point One - Absolutely!

Point Two - Quite right (other than the 'arrest' part) :tup:

Point Three is possibly not the best advice to give someone new to the arts, Kicks. That way lies the open door to either getting decked or getting yourself censured for escalating the situation (which would be the height of irony).

I'll have to wait until tonight to elaborate and discuss (at work as ever :(), I just thought that that last point needed a counter-point :).

[exile]

Point Three is possibly not the best advice to give someone new to the arts, Kicks. That way lies the open door to either getting decked or getting yourself censured for escalating the situation (which would be the height of irony).


I share Sukerkin's reservations about this move. There are any number of ways responding in kind can go wrong, and only one way it can go right: the jerk in question gets the message, decides he'd be better off pulling back to more reasonable behavior, and everything goes swimmingly from there. But given the facts that (i) this outcome would entail admitting, in effect, that he had been physically intimidated by a woman, and (ii) the fact that his bullying is probably partly a result of a weak-ego need to prove that he's tougher than this woman he's sparring, what is the likelihood of him actually deciding, gracefully, that it would be better for him to start playing nice? My guess is, whatever insecurity motivated his original bullying behavior would just get ramped up, and the whole problem would repeat itself at a more intense level.

The thing is, if your neighbors start throwing rocks through your window for whatever stupid reason, the worst thing you can do is start chucking rocks through their window. You go to the police and the courts instead; they get hit with a restraining order, maybe yellow sheet for malicious property damage and a big bill from their lawyer. I think bringing the matter to the school's attention is both safer for gal06 and more likely to bring about the desiderata in this case—the guy either gets civilized in a hurry or gets bounced from the school....

[jks9199]

Now it time for me to clear my throat.....

First of all, if this guy has to beat you to feel like a man, then he needs to find a therpist and fast.

Second, if the instructor sees this and still hasn't repsonded to it. Call it to his/her attention. People can get arrest for that no matter who they are.

Third, girl is time to unleash a big rig can of whoop a$$ on him. Let him know, don't let the gender fool you.
Just a point on the issue of arrests...

It'd be very tough to make a criminal assault case out of a martial arts class; both parties are willing participants in the fight. You'd really have to show that the injuries were well beyond what would be reasonably expected, and were deliberately inflicted. (Note that civil cases are an entirely different thing.)

But it's not the best solution, anyway. As others have said -- the first step should be saying something like "hey, dude, we ain't supposed to be hurting each other! Lighten up!" If talking to the guy doesn't work, then go to the instructors. They should respond. If they don't -- time to look for a new school.

There's a very small, very limited window for responding by hitting him back. It's squeezed into the space between talking and going to the instructors, and it basically is room for one or two immediate, harder but still controlled strikes, along a "I said lighten up!" line. For a new student... Probably not practical. And easily misconstrued as "Let's play rough!"

[kicksindabank]

Sukerin and jks9199: Thanks for the feedback. I see your point as well as mind. Point wouldn't work for everyone. I think I was looking at it from my stance, but should have seen it from an new students eyes.

Yet, part of me doesn't understand how this could escape the instructor of the class. I can imagine if you have many students it would be hard, but some internal bell would ring in my heart saying something is not right. Yet, I am still a young black belt apprentice, what do I know.


I hope this doesn't stray you from continuing on your martial arts journey

[Sui]

Yes, some suggestions.

Tell the guy straight out you are sick and tired of his behavior. Ask him if he enjoys hurting other people during training, or if he simply can't tell the difference between contact and noncontact sparring.

If he gives you flack, go to your chief instructor, tell him what the guy has been doing, tell him that you feel you have to conceal your injures from your mother, and ask him to intervene—by providing you with a different sparring partner.

If he blows you off, leave the school. At this point, you have evidence that they do not respect you (a legitimate inference in view of the fact that you do not let people you respect be used as human punching bags).



I was in the same situation where this guy insisted to do all the techniques with as much strength as he could (i practice ninjutsu and it's all about using as little of your own strength and energy as possible). With the martial art i practice this was incredibly dangerous because we aim to hit vital points on the body and it was really painful every time he hit me. The first 2 hits i was surprised and didnt say anything but then after the third almost knocked me on the ground flat i rightout told him to freakin calm down. And his response? "Haha don't be such a girly girl i'm not even hitting you hard". I don't whine much and i like to believe i have a pretty high pain threshold but when i get multicoloured swollen bruises from this dude hitting me like that i draw the line. I stupidly decided to give him one more chance and that time he actually hit me so hard (with a tsuki) that i fell on the floor. That was the last straw and even the people sparring next to us started telling him off. I just went to the instructor and demanded a new sparring parter and told him about this guy. He got some serious scolding from the instructor but it didnt even help then cause he started doing the same to his new sparring partner! After that the instructor kicked him out of the training session.

Some people just don't get it.

[trainhard_fighteasy]

Hey, I am also a 16 year old girl and had a similar problem with a red belt at my school, who was about 30. Every lesson I came away with bruises from him - not only did he put a lot of power in, but he was clumsy so I often got hit in the face.

At first, I assumed he did not realise he was hurting me - he was usuing the same force and technique that he did with the black belts, but had failed to register I was half their size, 14 years old and only a 8th Kup at the time. After one lesson, I had a quick word with him and politely asked him to take it a little easier with me in future.

But he carried on pounding into me, so I spoke to a couple of black belts...next lesson, he left with a bloody nose and a few stern words from the black belts - needless to say he soon saw the errors in his ways ;)

I'm not saying you should get anyway to hurt him, but it might just do him good to realise that you've got some black belts looking out for you, and might remind him of his place. That's only if talking to him doesn't work of course. Communication is key in these situations.

Anyway, hope it gets better, Claire xxxx

[Tez3]

Hey, I am also a 16 year old girl and had a similar problem with a red belt at my school, who was about 30. Every lesson I came away with bruises from him - not only did he put a lot of power in, but he was clumsy so I often got hit in the face.

At first, I assumed he did not realise he was hurting me - he was usuing the same force and technique that he did with the black belts, but had failed to register I was half their size, 14 years old and only a 8th Kup at the time. After one lesson, I had a quick word with him and politely asked him to take it a little easier with me in future.

But he carried on pounding into me, so I spoke to a couple of black belts...next lesson, he left with a bloody nose and a few stern words from the black belts - needless to say he soon saw the errors in his ways ;)

I'm not saying you should get anyway to hurt him, but it might just do him good to realise that you've got some black belts looking out for you, and might remind him of his place. That's only if talking to him doesn't work of course. Communication is key in these situations.

Anyway, hope it gets better, Claire xxxx


Welcome to MT! and a cracking good first post! sometimes when someone is like this no amount of talking or explaining will stop them so I think a bloody nose is called for. I remember karate sparring with a big guy 16st and 6 foot, he sweep me which was okay but then sweep me again as I was getting up badly hurting my leg. My instructor didn't say a word, just put his sparring kit on and motioned to him to go on the mats. The sparring went off as normal but my instructor kicked him on the inside of his thigh and the big guy dropped, he went through purple to pink to white to grey then rushed off to be sick! My instructor (who also does Atemi-jitsu) hadn't caught him in the whatsits, he'd caught him very precisely on a pressure point!

[Shaderon]

Hey, I am also a 16 year old girl and had a similar problem with a red belt at my school, who was about 30. Every lesson I came away with bruises from him - not only did he put a lot of power in, but he was clumsy so I often got hit in the face.

At first, I assumed he did not realise he was hurting me - he was usuing the same force and technique that he did with the black belts, but had failed to register I was half their size, 14 years old and only a 8th Kup at the time. After one lesson, I had a quick word with him and politely asked him to take it a little easier with me in future.

But he carried on pounding into me, so I spoke to a couple of black belts...next lesson, he left with a bloody nose and a few stern words from the black belts - needless to say he soon saw the errors in his ways ;)

I'm not saying you should get anyway to hurt him, but it might just do him good to realise that you've got some black belts looking out for you, and might remind him of his place. That's only if talking to him doesn't work of course. Communication is key in these situations.

Anyway, hope it gets better, Claire xxxx



I agree with Tez, great post Claire.

For a red belt to go this hard on a Yellow belt is demonstrating a complete lack of control and consideration for other students. I am regularly put with red belts and above to train (I'm 7th Kup at the moment) and I give as good as I get with them, but they always hold back until they know what I can do and try and match my abilities. Learning self comtrol with lesser ranking students is a valuble and important lesson which translates to self defence too, after all if someone of a lesser ability attacks you and you can stop them without hurting them badly, then that is good, if you put them in hospital without having to than I feel you have let yourself down. Hurting other students like this is not only letting yourself down, it's letting your instructor down too, it gives the impression that your instructor thinks it's ok to bully those who know less and have less training time than you do, it's disrespectful to your training partner, your instructor, your Dojang and the art itself.

Bullys should be educated and if that means a taste of thier own medicine is neccesary because they won't listen, then so be it.

[exile]

Hurting other students like this is not only letting yourself down, it's letting your instructor down too, it gives the impression that your instructor thinks it's ok to bully those who know less and have less training time than you do, it's disrespectful to your training partner, your instructor, your Dojang and the art itself.

This is a very sharp observation, Shads! And as Tez's post illustrates, it's usually the case that an instructor who becomes aware that this kind of bullying is going on definitely thinks it's not OK, and will do what's necessary to administer a, um, correction... I think that's the word dog trainers use?... to ensure it doesn't happen again. It's nice when it can be done as elegantly as Tez's instructor was able to do...




Bullys should be educated and if that means a taste of thier own medicine is neccesary because they won't listen, then so be it.

There's nothing like putting someone in the same position that they put others in to get them to see just what it is they're doing and why they should stop it. But notice that the `correction' in such cases is best left to the instructors or high-rank students to administer. I do think it's a mistake for the victim to try and do the same thing—mostly because that in effect takes the moral high ground away from the person on the receiving end; then it comes down to who started it first, he-said-she-said etc. Best to leave it to Those Who Rule to remind these guys why basic training courtesy is so important. They'll do a much more effective job in the end, in most cases, and it'll have the status of an `official' reprimand, not just a tit-for-tat reaction...

[Shaderon]

Yep, a newspaper on the nose is more effective than having the cat scratch the dog.

I must really make my metaphors plainer but I'm just agreeing with Ex here.

[Product of Pearl]

I think the instructor may not be paying enough attention during class to notice especially if you are getting battle scars everytme you leave. That's not good. I also ask why you are being put with the same person everytime you come to class? You might want to ask the instructor if you can switch partners and work with more people.

[DavidCC]

I don't want the OP to take this as any kind of comment against yourself, but it always amazes me how quick everyone is to make judgements based on one short post... yes this guy probably was the biggest cliche douchebag, but it is also possible that the poster is exaggerating, a hypochondriac, a whiner, etc... (I'm not saying you are, Taekwondo_gal06, just speaking generally)

Not that I think YOU are, I'm just saying that from one post many people responded with advice as if they had been there and witnessed the situation first hand... the best, most prudent advice is always - "talk to your instructor".

There are many things that go on in a good dojo that will make you angry, make you sad, make you hurt (physically and emotionally) and they are normal, and even necessary... and if you avoid these lessons by changing schools (to a school that is softer, easier for example) you will never get through them. But if your goal is to get good at a competitive sport, maybe you don't need to. However at my school the goal is to prepare people to deal with the worst moments of their lives, and they certainly DO need to go through some real ugly moments in the dojo to do that, IMHO.

[Lynne]

I was wondering, TKDGal, how it's going? Has Mr. Bluebeltitis straightened out a bit?

In our school, the instructors won't put up with bullies, if they see what's going on. For example, before we are allowed to spar, we do one-on-one kicking, just exchanging kicks as rapidly as possible without contact. There was a fellow, two belts above my daughter, who was taking advantage of the fact that she was new. He kicked her two or three times because he thought he could get away with it. One of the instructors came over and, "pow!" hit the guy on the arm very hard and said, "Don't you hit her again!" Kudos for that instructor. He is only 16 or so :)

We have been told time and time again, "If someone kicks you in one-on-one kicking, hit them back." I suppose that's one way for us lower belts to learn a bit of control if we goof. I have been kicked lightly and the person apologized. We are lower belts and don't have the control the higher belts have. Thank goodness, I haven't kicked anyone yet.

[RachelK]

Not that I think YOU are, I'm just saying that from one post many people responded with advice as if they had been there and witnessed the situation first hand... the best, most prudent advice is always - "talk to your instructor".

Well, we have only the information that the original poster has provided. Now we could assume that everyone who posts a question is a big exaggerator, or just whining, and since we'll never know what really happened, simply reply to every post with "talk to your instructor" or "just buck up and take it" I see a lot of posts along these lines, but I don't know if that's the best way to respond to such questions. I guess for some people, simply posting "talk to your instructor" is sufficient, but I'm just taking these posts on faith - could be many are total whiners who lack the resilience necessary for martial arts training, but since I have no way to prove their whiny, exaggerating ways, I'm assuming that they are honest in their descriptions. I have no way to prove their honesty, either, but I find it's generally more helpful to both the poster and all those who read to take them at face value rather than doubt the veracity of their posts.

Just my $0.02! I understand not everyone feels comfortable believing that people post accurate descriptions of their training here. I choose to believe them, and of course I recognize that everyone else is free to disbelieve them if they wish.

Best,
Rachel

[Lynne]

Well, we have only the information that the original poster has provided. Now we could assume that everyone who posts a question is a big exaggerator, or just whining, and since we'll never know what really happened, simply reply to every post with "talk to your instructor" or "just buck up and take it" I see a lot of posts along these lines, but I don't know if that's the best way to respond to such questions. I guess for some people, simply posting "talk to your instructor" is sufficient, but I'm just taking these posts on faith - could be many are total whiners who lack the resilience necessary for martial arts training, but since I have no way to prove their whiny, exaggerating ways, I'm assuming that they are honest in their descriptions. I have no way to prove their honesty, either, but I find it's generally more helpful to both the poster and all those who read to take them at face value rather than doubt the veracity of their posts.

Just my $0.02! I understand not everyone feels comfortable believing that people post accurate descriptions of their training here. I choose to believe them, and of course I recognize that everyone else is free to disbelieve them if they wish.

Best,
Rachel
From what I've seen in the Dojang, it's not farfetched. If there were tons of posts about women/girls being knocked around brutally, then I'd begin to wonder about drama queens.

I, myself, was slammed into the mat in Judo very forcefully and I know that my partner was being irresponsible - he was the Sensei and he threw me over his head. I can't say whether he had a personal problem with women. I don't know. I do know he was irresponsible. That was the end of Judo for me as it trashed my two knees for months. They banged together when I hit the mat. There was no time to "slap" the mat.

As far as men or boys picking on women or smaller males, it does happen. I'm sure it doesn't happen often though. Those kinds of people usually get found out and booted out or straightened out.

[donna]

I don't want the OP to take this as any kind of comment against yourself, but it always amazes me how quick everyone is to make judgements based on one short post... yes this guy probably was the biggest cliche douchebag, but it is also possible that the poster is exaggerating, a hypochondriac, a whiner, etc... (I'm not saying you are, Taekwondo_gal06, just speaking generally)

Not that I think YOU are, I'm just saying that from one post many people responded with advice as if they had been there and witnessed the situation first hand... the best, most prudent advice is always - "talk to your instructor".

There are many things that go on in a good dojo that will make you angry, make you sad, make you hurt (physically and emotionally) and they are normal, and even necessary... and if you avoid these lessons by changing schools (to a school that is softer, easier for example) you will never get through them. But if your goal is to get good at a competitive sport, maybe you don't need to. However at my school the goal is to prepare people to deal with the worst moments of their lives, and they certainly DO need to go through some real ugly moments in the dojo to do that, IMHO.

Firstly, I tend to believe the original posters complaints. The fact that she spoke to more senior students in her class and they assesed the situation as being bad enough to do something about it, tells me that this is not a case of someone being "overly sensitive"
We do not pay good money for lessons, to be covered in bruises and beaten up each session. We are there to learn. The case mentioned here is a young person, and it is very easy at that age to be disouraged. It tends to take the fun out of training if you think you are going to get hurt each lesson.
The issue here is control, which is a hard thing for many people to learn.Some learn the hard way, some never learn.

[Lynne]

Firstly, I tend to believe the original posters complaints. The fact that she spoke to more senior students in her class and they assesed the situation as being bad enough to do something about it, tells me that this is not a case of someone being "overly sensitive"
We do not pay good money for lessons, to be covered in bruises and beaten up each session. We are there to learn. The case mentioned here is a young person, and it is very easy at that age to be disouraged. It tends to take the fun out of training if you think you are going to get hurt each lesson.
The issue here is control, which is a hard thing for many people to learn.Some learn the hard way, some never learn.
I believe her as well.

I start sparring soon and my biggest fear isn't getting a bloody nose or a punch in the head, it's my own lack of control. I'll be an orange belt then, just starting sparring. I see white and yellow belts making contact during one-on-kicking, wrist grips, and one-step sparring quite often. Usually we don't hurt one another but we don't have much control either. In sparring, we'll be punching and kicking to make contact.

[DavidCC]

Well, I never said I didn't believe her. I'm just saying that there is often a lot more to a situation than one can get from reading a forum post. Often the poster themself is not aware of many complicating factors, so how could they even be part of the post??

So to give advice like "you should change schools" (and I'm not even sure anyone did so in this thread) can be very premature and unhelpful. Brains are amazing things, they like complete pictures, so if there is a piece missing it will fill it in for you (blind spot of the eye). Well, it does this for more than just visual images, so when one reads a post like this, you can't help but fill in the missing pieces with your own experiences. Sometimes that gives you excellent insight into a situation but sometimes it makes you give really really bad advice.

I'm not saying that happened here, or that anyone's advice is bad (or good). I'm trying to address the larger issue of "how good can advice be from an internet forum?" more generally.

Sorry if anyone thought I was insulting the OP, for the record I don't think any of those negatives that I described earlier are about you! I was just looking at "worst case" possibility.

[Lynne]

Well, I never said I didn't believe her. I'm just saying that there is often a lot more to a situation than one can get from reading a forum post. Often the poster themself is not aware of many complicating factors, so how could they even be part of the post??

So to give advice like "you should change schools" (and I'm not even sure anyone did so in this thread) can be very premature and unhelpful. Brains are amazing things, they like complete pictures, so if there is a piece missing it will fill it in for you (blind spot of the eye). Well, it does this for more than just visual images, so when one reads a post like this, you can't help but fill in the missing pieces with your own experiences. Sometimes that gives you excellent insight into a situation but sometimes it makes you give really really bad advice.

I'm not saying that happened here, or that anyone's advice is bad (or good). I'm trying to address the larger issue of "how good can advice be from an internet forum?" more generally.

Sorry if anyone thought I was insulting the OP, for the record I don't think any of those negatives that I described earlier are about you! I was just looking at "worst case" possibility.
It's true - we can't know all the details. Good point.

[Balrog]

What they said... and a couple of other things, too.

You are there to learn, and learning often involves a few bruises. The key word here is "few". If you are getting so bruised that you're afraid your mother will pull you out - you're getting too bruised. That's the point at which it leaves "training" and becomes "bullying".

I would be concerned about you upping the contact level, because that could easily cause him to up it even further. It might not - but given what you've said about him, I'd be very concerned about risking it.

If you haven't talked to him - and shown him what he's doing to you - then you need to do so, and you need to do it in front of a senior (aka "witness"). If that doesn't work - or you don't want to confront him directly - then you need to talk to a senior and/or your instructor. If nothing else, this guy is creating a horrible liability risk for your instructor, and he needs to know it's happening before this guy goes past bruises.

Let us know what steps you've taken and how it's going.

Excellent advice!

I would suggest, also, that if the knocks continue after speaking with the instructor about it: simply refuse to spar the bozo any more. If you are paired up with him, simply step off to the side. If questioned about it, loudly state before the class: "Sir, So-and-so has no concept of control over his techniques. He is dangerous to spar with and I prefer not to."

If the instructor insists that you spar him, bow yourself off the floor and leave the school. At that point, you need to make a determination as to whether the other instruction you are getting is worth your staying there. Set up a closed-door meeting with the instructor and tell him in no uncertain terms that you are considering leaving his school for safety reasons, and that if he pairs you up with the bozo again, you are gone.

Good luck to you!