Aikido: Effectiveness on the street

[achilles95]

Interested to hear opinions on the effectiveness of aikido in a real-life fight scenario.

[bushidomartialarts]

For somebody with a lot of training and experience, I think Aikido would work very well. It's defense-oriented, gives lots of options, and can be escalated easily to really destructive stuff.

I think, though, that it has a steeper learning curve for effectiveness than many other martial arts. For that reason, I'd most strongly recommend Aikido to folks who already have proficiency in another art.

[Monadnock]

I think lessons from the first class can be effective. I had a guy run at me from behind, so I stepped and turned off the line and he stumbled past me.

Depends on the student, and also how the class is geared.

[charyuop]

blah blah blah...sorry, but I see new threads like this one everyday in every forum.
My Sensei's and my Senpai's very effective!!! Mine? Effective to create a couple of laughters, but I would be probably in the same condition in TKD, Karate or Kenpo.

Read between the lines and you will have the answr hee hee.

[theletch1]

Do a search in this sub-forum for this very same topic. You'll find several threads devoted to it.

[Andrew Green]

"Aikido: Effectiveness on the street"

My opinion is that anyone who is trying to wrist lock or flip a large chunk of concrete has more to worry about then the effectiveness of there wrist locks and throws on said slab of concrete :)

My other opinion is that that is as meaningful of a answer as any on this sort of question. These things cannot be tested, just thought about really hard. And that is not evidence.

[charyuop]

"Aikido: Effectiveness on the street"

My other opinion is that that is as meaningful of a answer as any on this sort of question. These things cannot be tested, just thought about really hard. And that is not evidence.

Let me correct you. They can be tested....always that we are both willing to have some injuries of any kind.
The real problem of testing it is in the errors. It is hard to try to be relaxed in the whole fight thus injuries can happen. My Senpai was telling me once he was free sparring Aikido with another shodan (not sure about their rankings back then). The other guy made a little mistake to try and resist a technique instead of flowing with it (doesn't matter how much you train, it is in human nature resisting and in a fight/spar at least once it will happen) and his knee popped instantly.

The only real way to test it would be going to a bar and starting a fight, but since you had never test it before you would have 50% chance to get an a$$ whopped and 50% that you manage to save your a$$.

There are proves in the past that Aikido works, but proves coming from great Sensei who actually had to fight alot. It doesn't matter how hard you train, the only way to know if "your" Aikido works or not outside of the Dojo is by having a real fight and see how you react to it.

Personally I like thinking my Aikido doesn't work and don't need to try it :)

[Andrew Green]

It's still artificial in that your mindset is different. You walk in prepared to fight and looking for a fight.

[achilles95]

Interesting.. I tried aikido for a while and I do agree it has a much steeper learning curve than other arts - it seems like it would take a long time to be able to use it effectively in a fight situation.

[tshadowchaser]

Like any other art the more yo train the better you get at it.

Do I think that a person with a few months in the art might be able to defend themslefs better than a person with a few months in Kempo or karate: wellagain it depends on the person but as a rule NO. Now if that same person had, say, 5 years in training that would be a different thing and I would then say YES

[Yari]

Interested to hear opinions on the effectiveness of aikido in a real-life fight scenario.

Yes, you can defends yourself by using Aikido principles/techniques.

The techniques that Aikido use are not difficult to learn and have no more a step learning curve than other styles. But learning the principles behind the techniques takes longer. But I think this is just the same for other styles too.

But I agree, shearch the forum, and you'll see this being asked and answered so many times, a pattern will evolve.... ;-)

/Yari

[samurai69]

For somebody with a lot of training and experience, I think Aikido would work very well. It's defense-oriented, gives lots of options, and can be escalated easily to really destructive stuff.

I think, though, that it has a steeper learning curve for effectiveness than many other martial arts. For that reason, I'd most strongly recommend Aikido to folks who already have proficiency in another art.


I would agree with that

or train in it for the art it is, but dont depend on it as a SD skill in your first few years of study unless you choos eone of the harder styles (yoshinkan)

[Hand Sword]

I have known and worked with quite a few Aikidoka through the years, as well as "dabbled" myself. Saying that, seeing them and myself "go at it", using Aikido, it works just as well as any other system on the street. I will also agree about the steeper learning curve required.

[Callandor]

I think Aikido is really an effective fighting art. The problem is the length of time it takes to be proficient in it compared to striking arts like Karate or Taekwondo. This is probably because of the fact that striking is more instinctive and therefore easier to learn. In Aikido, it is much more mental, I think (based on my observations - I'm not a practitioner.). You have to train the mind to blend with the attacker. To enter and meet her. This is counter-intuitive specially when the opponent is throwing kicks and punches or is in possession of weapons. You also need to have a high degree of calmness to make the techniques work - again, not an easy task to achieve when your adrenaline level is high. This is probably the reason why Aikido focuses so much on meditation. Once you have control of your mind and can see the movements of your opponent as it is with clarity, execution of the technique wont be a difficult task. My view could be wrong but I don't mind being corrected.

[Callandor]

The techniques that Aikido use are not difficult to learn and have no more a step learning curve than other styles. But learning the principles behind the techniques takes longer. But I think this is just the same for other styles too.
This is true. It is not the techniques that are difficult but their execution. A wrist lock could be learned in minutes. To perform that, however, requires you to catch the punch (you can't just reach out and grab his wrist unless he's already grabbing you). This requires timing - perfect timing. Timing which you can only achieve when your mind is clear and uncluttered. Timing and mental clarity takes a long time to cultivate. You should also learn to control your fear of stepping in which also takes time.

[ejaazi]

Interesting.. I tried aikido for a while and I do agree it has a much steeper learning curve than other arts - it seems like it would take a long time to be able to use it effectively in a fight situation.

True statement, but it is effective in a real fight.

[kiaiki]

Hi. I studied Shudokan Aikido (an offshoot of Yoshinkan).

It bears little resemblance to the definition at the head of this forum as it is strongly linear, dominating the 'centre line' and contains a wide range of strikes. Speaking to other old guys like me, it seems that some clubs have omitted some 'martial' parts of the art and steered it towards their own specialities. It now has a reputation in some quarters as being compliant and ineffective as it lacks 'aliveness' (against a fighting and resisting challenger).

I know from my own experience and that of others in Shudokan that it is very effective for self defence. It has been used against armed and unarmed attacks.

I'm a bit controversial as I now think the umbrella term 'aikido' has had its day.
I would prefer the use of the style names, as these immediately convey what a club is likely to be teaching. Aikido where I live now is mainly Ki or Judo with knobs on and nobody would dream it can also include hard and fast atemi and knife defence work (I think Shudokan still use live tanto for Dan grades, including random attack jiyuwaza) so it's not a huge jump to SD and certainly helps combat fear of the knife.

Ultimately, however much dojo training you have, you still need to have the confidence and courage to rely on it in a fight.

This is not a recruitment post (LOL) as I don't have contact with Shudokan any more, but I would direct you to Youtube to look at the various styles and their likely usefulness for SD:

Youtube now has some reasonable clips of Shudokan (www.shudokan.info) It is run as a business in the UK, so more than church hall fees, but highly rated for its Aikido:

Joe Thambu in Australia is on there a lot and is, I think, the highest non-Japanese Yoshinkan student graded by Shioda himself.

Here are a few links to look at:

Joe Thambu (Shudokan Melbourne):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nypJUUV9XEY

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cDoxRxCOfn8&mode=related&search=

And here's a bit of fun to show that Aikido is not run exclusively by fat middle aged men - a synchronised team demo with lots of leaping about LOL:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RK6eHEtRzk4

And one of the funniest 'knife defence clips ever' from Jim Carey (with the 'because you are a beginner you didn't attack me right' line LOL :

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h_vvI26NnwE

[charyuop]

I have watched so many videos of Yoshinkan and I still don't see the hardness in it. As a beginner I try to leave out Atemi for now coz they just mess up my timing, but I see Sensei and Senpai using them continusly.
I have watched many video of Saotome Sensei (Aikikai) and really doesn't look that soft to me.

As per the old fat Akidoka...huuhuum, I just give you on name...Morihiro Saito Sensei (that should be enough said).

[Yari]

Hi. I studied Shudokan Aikido (an offshoot of Yoshinkan).
.........


Hi and welcome. Thanks for posting, looking forward to hearing more from you!

/Yari

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

I can really only base my opinion on my own experiences...
I only studied Aikido for 2 years, which I openly admit is only long enough to scratch the tip of the iceburg. I have bounced quite a few times and must admit that when it comes to walking out guys who are bigger than me (I'm only 5'7" bout 160 lbs) I have found that Aikido joint locks and holds are quite effective, if used in the right situation.

[Decker]

Does aikido have any inherent disadvantage against styles like, say, judo, where throws/takedowns are also practised, or does it still boil down to the individual practitioner's skill, considering neither combatant goes to the ground?

Well, I ask this becuase I've trained in only striking arts, and have 0 grappling skills, and was considering aikido, rather than judo, to complement what I know.

Thanks!

[theletch1]

Does aikido have any inherent disadvantage against styles like, say, judo, where throws/takedowns are also practised, or does it still boil down to the individual practitioner's skill, considering neither combatant goes to the ground?

Well, I ask this becuase I've trained in only striking arts, and have 0 grappling skills, and was considering aikido, rather than judo, to complement what I know.

Thanks!
The big differences, as I understand them, between aikido and judo are that aikido is much more about using ukes energy against them with as little of your own muscle as possible used while judo relies somewhat more on nages muscle to throw. Also, most styles of judo will also incorporate ne waza (grappling) in the curricullum...it's an integral part of the art. My aikido school does work on grappling but solely as an adjunct to traditional technique as we have a couple of instructors with some grappling skills. As for one over the other on the street...yes, it really depends on the individual rather than the art. I know, I know. There's always argument regarding that but it's what I believe.

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

I had a thought after this thread was started (scary I know).
I've read through Black Belt magazines and seen ads for something called "Combat Aikido" I've looked into it online and what not, but have never been able to find much information to either substantiate or debunk this "style". Has anyone else ever heard of "Combat Aikido" and speak for or against its effectiveness/existence?

[theletch1]

I had a thought after this thread was started (scary I know).

I've read through Black Belt magazines and seen ads for something called "Combat Aikido" I've looked into it online and what not, but have never been able to find much information to either substantiate or debunk this "style". Has anyone else ever heard of "Combat Aikido" and speak for or against its effectiveness/existence?

As a general rule I stay away from anything in Black Belt magazine.:) I've heard of the combat aikido group but don't have any first hand information on them. I'll dig around and see what I can find and then give you my "expert" opinion. I will say, however, that the concept of Combat Aikido seems to be anethema to the concept of aikido. Combat aikijutsu perhaps but not aikido.

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

I'll dig around and see what I can find and then give you my "expert" opinion. I will say, however, that the concept of Combat Aikido seems to be anethema to the concept of aikido. Combat aikijutsu perhaps but not aikido.


Much obliged mate!

I felt the same as you that Combat Aikido was a contradiction of terms...it's probably as you said a for Aikijitsu but the 'instructor' may have felt that adding the word "combat" and using the more popular and known term of "Aikido" may assist in selling the course? Just a thought...

[theletch1]

I found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evP6X7EDLss) one on youtube. I recognize a good many of the techniques used from my own training. It's certainly much more aggressive and -jutsu like than aikido. Looks like fun. It's the Philippine version of combat aikido.

Now, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVbS0xHCerw)one is Jason Delucia doing combat aikido and is probably what you saw in the back of BB magazine. From what I can see in the clip there's no aikido to be found. Every throw comes after the energy has been stopped dead. He did some MMA and pancreas stuff in the past.

[Yari]

Does aikido have any inherent disadvantage against styles like, say, judo, where throws/takedowns are also practised, or does it still boil down to the individual practitioner's skill, considering neither combatant goes to the ground?

Well, I ask this becuase I've trained in only striking arts, and have 0 grappling skills, and was considering aikido, rather than judo, to complement what I know.

Thanks!

well, depends on the style of Aikido. And the teacher teaching. Aikido does have trows as the same as judo, since judos philosofi is the same as Aikido. Use the opponents energi and direct it into another path ny using your center.

So try out what you have of possiblities, and choose from that.

/Yari