Interesting read.

[DJAVULS OGA]

I saw this on another site and thought you Modern Arnis guys would find it interesting.


PART #1

Kelly Worden

One of Datu Kelly Worden's greatest contributions to martial arts is that he has put the word "martial" back into martial arts. Mention his name outside of the Pacific Northwest and knife world, and people will look at you strangely and ask, "who is that?" Datu Worden began this path in boxing while he was a child. Through boxing, high school wrestling, and several styles of Karate, a firm foundation was built for the house that would later be called, "Natural Spirit."

My interpretation is; he had a house and in that house he had to be something that someone else wanted him to be; limited by stylized movement. Everything changed when someone handed him a master key to all of the rooms in the house and the man who possessed that "key" was Professor Remy Presas.

As far as I'm concerned Datu Kelly Worden is one of the most valuable people in the martial arts. Although no one man holds the truth, but if you are looking to find the truth, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who is better qualified at guiding you onto the path to find it out for yourself; because ultimately, only you can find it anyway.
Don Rearic

RealFighting
Well it's nice to meet you.

Kelly Worden
Thanks, nice meeting you too.

RF
You're known to have worked closely with Remy Presas.

Worden
Yes, actually I'm the first and highest ranked American that he promoted to Datu, that was in 1988. In Victoria Canada at the end of his life he offered me higher Dan Ranking but I refused. Years ago, when I was involved in the ranking aspect of the art of the art he had awarded me a 6th degree Black belt in conjunction with my Datu title.

Ranking in the Black belt method means close to nothing today, I don't even wear a uniform to train unless formally requested by someone I respect. Today in many systems including Modern Arnis it may be an issue of what color of "Brown your nose is" not what actual skill you possess or what you have achieved on your own. It is more important to me that he considered me to be his most knowledgeable instructor in America due to the nature of my progressive curriculum, the different master instructors aligned with my organization, and the aggressive Military Tactic Programs I instruct. No other Modern Arnis instructor has achieved recognition directly from the U.S. Military and instructed programs for as many years as I have. Professor Presas was extremely proud of having Modern Arnis being a key art in the U.S. Army Special Forces training regimen and Remy endorsed me for years as the blade master of Modern Arnis.

RF
When did you start with him?

Worden
I had been involved in American Boxing since the early 1960's, the martial arts since the early 1970's and started training with Remy Presas back in 1982. Prior to that I trained with and received Black Belt rank in Combat Arnis from Cui Brocka, one of Ernesto Presas' Master Black Belt Instructors. Cui had a big following in Europe, mostly Germany.

RF
Professor Presas experienced some problems in the Philippines before coming to the U.S.?

Worden
Yes, while out of the country on a cultural tour in Japan, a government controlled group called NARAPHIL (National Arnis Association of the Philippines) was formed to oversee all martial arts and Remy Presas refused to be controlled and manipulated by members of this group who were actually former students of his. Marcos appointed General Ver to oversee NARAPHIL and due to the nature of the political unrest the Government had seized Remy's diplomatic passport as well as his bank accounts, and Professor decided to leave. He snuck out of the Philippines on a civilian passport. There is much history covering this subject and even Remy himself has shared the information in interviews in some of the older Black Belt magazines. Remy was very smart with many close friends that supported his efforts to propagate Modern Arnis. Historically speaking Roland Dantes was Remy's closest friend and most trusted student over the years. Roland's father was the Brigadier General for all the southern Philippines, which is Mindanao and the islands in that area. Roland's father was also Muslim and a Datu within his community. There is an interview coming out in the very near future I conducted with Roland in the care facility room of Remy Presas while he was living. That interview was June 21, 2001, and will be featured in Inside Kung Fu. It covers a great deal of this subject and more.

Professor introduced Roland and I during his illness after brain surgery and we also became very close friends. Professor arranged for Roland Dantes to live with me during his stay here in the U.S. He just left my home again this year August 1, 2002, after a 1-½ month visit, and stays with me whenever he's in the U.S. Professor Presas and Roland Dantes befriended me as a brother and friend, probably because I do not waver from the truth and the truth is where it's at!

Remy never intended on letting the cancer take his life, he always said he was "recovering from brain surgery". Even the doctors close to him did not tell him he was dying. It made for a bad situation at the end because he became too ill to organize his system or his personal affairs before his untimely death. It seems he was cheated out of the opportunity to stabilize what now has become a political circus as far as the Modern Arnis lineage and the power struggle that exists today.

In the end, he had only enough strength to concentrate on trying to recover and trusted very few people. Roland is the Chairman of the Board for Arnis Philippines, the governing body for Arnis in the Philippines. Before passing, Remy confided in Roland that Modern Arnis had become a nightmare for him to deal with, he only wanted to think about the beauty of the art, not the political problems. Many factions have been created due to his unconventional methods of rewarding rank and giving titles. It seemed the only titles he really cared about were the Datu titles due to the cultural status and relation to the level of the art it represented. Sadly, Professor Presas failed to mention a certain Datu during his last audio public interview. This individual had fallen from his grace due to his political power playing. The situation caused quite a stir as the Datu even questioned Remy's own sanity in a public internet forum. Remy found out about these statements and was extremely offended. He felt stabbed in the back while he was down. This was a direct attack against Remy's personal decisions and judgment, which emotionally upset him, at least that's how Remy took it! It is every man's duty to make peace with a person who is facing death and during an unstable time as that, it is better if you do not make power plays against a dying man.

RF
What style did Remy teach?

Worden
He coined the term Modern Arnis. It was based off the concepts of Figure Eight, Rompida, crossada, sinawali, palis-palis, and the traditional arts he researched, espada-y-daga, Arnis de mano, Eskrima. Additionally Remy was also influenced by the Balintawak of Cebu, training directly under Rodolfo Moncal, Timoteo Marranga, Attny.Villasin and Grandmaster Venancio Bacon. There is no question Remy was influenced by other practitioners throughout his research of the arts. Early on in the development of Modern Arnis he had two very good friends, Dr. Lengson and Johnny Chiuten along with Remy Presas shared a great deal of information while integrating concepts from each others individual systems. Keep in mind Professor was schooled in Traditional Karate, and achieved 6th degree ranking, and black belt status in Judo. He further incorporated Aikido, JuJutsu, Sambo, and military applications of the Blade Arts into Modern Arnis. Remy was trained initially by his grandfather Leon Presas, and also trained by his father Jose B. Presas who was a lieutenant in the Filipino commando jungle fighters. Professor's father Jose, actually trained Filipino military men on their family plantation when Remy was a young boy, Remy would hide and watch them do Arnis.

RF
Stylistically, what is Modern Arnis like?

Worden
Remy put a great deal of emphasis on the ability to flow from one concept into the next. He considered Balintawak to be the deadliest art of all he researched and he formulated his art around that foundation. Tapi-Tapi or counter-to-counter tactics of single stick is an area of development that distinguishes the different phases in bridging the gap from long to medium to close quarter range. Applied properly the exchange fluctuates from distancing to closing engagements and back out according to who takes control of the trapping or controlling hand. Tapi-Tapi combines the concepts of hitting, blending, adhesion, trapping, disarming, locks, throws, and more during a fast and quickly executed give and take engagement. This method begins with a person feeding the action in either right or left handed versions and can quickly change into a free play drill or break away into actual free sparring. These concepts can be applied to empty hand but flow differently. Additionally the connection to the blade is very direct and neutralizes the counter-counter interplay with deadly results.

It seems every group of Presas students have a little different take on the training and concepts of what exactly they focus on. An example to highlight this might be the fact that many of the Modern Arnis people maintain a Karate curriculum in their school structure. This direction will also affect the outcome of how the style actually flows or does not flow for that matter. It seems that with Professor's gypsy lifestyle, on the move from seminar to seminar during his career, most groups were just adding to their overall curriculum whatever they could comprehend during his visit to their area.

Stylistically it's a compilation system based on single stick, double stick, knife, espada-y-daga, mano-y-mano or empty hand striking and joint manipulation I refer to as Presas Lock-Flow. Like all Filipino arts the concept of striking patterns are abundant throughout the art and training is separated into subsystems and referred to as traditional arts. A distinct element that stands out is the use of forms both solo stick and empty hand, referred to as anyo. As mentioned previously with the variety of different arts being meshed together with the Modern Arnis system the inability for some practitioners to perform the anyo with actual Filipino fluidity and mobility is almost disturbing.

Filipino form in many respects should embrace the essence of Silat flavored movement similar to the hidden dance of freeform blade play only with a structured pattern. Of course the foundation of the anyo should be structured to pass on the pattern but very few ever grow beyond the "hup-hup-hup" stages of expressing any actual progressive flow. I demonstrated the anyo to Professor many times and he was thrilled to see it come to life. At one time I asked if I could release the video tapes to introduce the essence of Filipino flair within the anyo and he responded by saying " Not now, if you do that, people will not buy my tapes," which were video taped and performed by students with a Karate background. During the time he was at the care facility in Victoria Canada. I gave a demonstration to the residents, he and Roland Dantes were eating lunch. Afterwards he told me to release the videotapes so everyone could see the progression as to where the anyo could take you into expressing the cultural connection of the art.

It is true Remy had a Karate background and fashioned the anyo to blend with the systems of that era, but it is also true Remy Presas valued the beauty of the cultural connection of what the Filipino arts offered and wanted the art to continue the progression, thus his acceptance to my interpretation of the anyo today! Those practitioners with Karate backgrounds and limited vision think I have changed things, but I did not and Professor knew it was just the beauty of flow. He states exactly that on his last audio interview we conducted the same day shortly after the demonstration, June 21, 2001. To expand a little more on that subject, the stick anyo can be executed with espada-y-daga, sword, double stick, knife, staff, empty handed, or as two person sets. Similar tactics can be extracted from the empty hand anyo by cross-referencing them into weapon sets. I have not changed anything, only expanded the applicable interpretation of the movements. Anyo offers the stability of repetition and the opportunity to expand insight into simplicity by adapting relative movements to different style applications or intent.

Remy modernized the art, meaning he worked hard getting it accepted back into the Filipino culture as a mainstream system not just practiced by underground barrio fighters, urban gangsters, or hoodlums. We must acknowledge it's original purpose was a killing art, not self defense. Remy changed that intent and technical appearance exposing it worldwide. Remy received high ranks in the arts that were respected during that time. Japanese arts such as karate, judo, and aikido and once he reached those levels he stabilized Modern Arnis so it was systemized, incorporating a structured ranking system. Remy really was a renegade and took a lot of the heat for making the transition into mainstream martial arts.

RF
What does Remy's style look like?

Worden
Remy himself was extremely fast and could close on an individual in an instant. An important factor in his skill was that he was actually left handed and most the people he instructed were right handed giving him strong ambidextrous attributes. Remy could lock someone up and control them without even looking at them, just utilizing his highly refined sensitivity.

Wally Jay says, "Remy was the fastest person I have ever known at putting someone down with controls and locks." That's quite a comment since Wally Jay has known so many dynamic martial artists. Keep in mind, the only persons Wally has spoken so highly of in this manner was "Bruce Lee and Remy Presas!" The fact that Remy was immersed in teaching and refining his art almost every day for the last 50 years has much to do with his personal development. Remy was known to travel worldwide and teach several seminars per week, crossing sticks with a great number of skilled practitioners, thousands of people called Remy Presas their teacher. Interestingly were some of the things he would say during an instructional engagement.

For instance if someone shifted off line and forced Remy to respond instinctively he might say, "My God, I didn't know I knew that!" Additionally a common response was, "You are teaching me," and "You got it Baby." Of course, then he would lock you up and dump you on the floor! Remy would switch from left to right weapon control without even a break in the flow, few were faster than Remy at that, none that I ever meant! I have witnessed Remy tie up and control up to four to five people all in his grasp, controlled with finger locks and slamming into one another, hopping around in immense pain, he understood and controlled a person's pain threshold to the point of knockout. Without a doubt, Remy Presas could see a technique once and immediately integrate it into his system, thus "the art within your art."

Modern Arnis was devised to be a complete system, integrating the cultural connection of the Filipino arts and the ability to adapt and make your foundation art more functional for self-defense. Modern Arnis has the functional value of traditional Filipino concepts Abaniko (fanning of the stick), Palis-Palis (passing of energy), Banda y Banda (horizontal slashing or striking), Rompida (diagonal slashing or striking), SakSak (thrusting), and other principles extracted from the stick work, offering a great deal of adaptable translation and flow based qualities. All these concepts are interactive depending if the intent is to strike, lock, throw, control, disarm, slash, stab, attach, or disengage.

Additionally, Modern Arnis blends attitude or energies to make the stick the knife, the stick the sword, staff tactics that translate to empty hands tactics, and extract or apply wing chun trapping functions into a Filipino flavor. Properly applied you can find the power and fluidity of boxing, the structure of karate, the control of Aikido/ JuJitsu, the trapping of wing chun, the dumog-grappling of judo/sambo, and the kuntao-Chinese/ Indonesian influence integrated into Arnis. Modern Arnis draws from that connection; it really is a complete art.

RF
Was Balintawak part of Doce Pares?

Worden
No, not at all. At one time the Balintawak founder Anciong Bacon was a part of that same group. In the early 1930's, things changed and that group disbanded and Anciong Bacon went his own direction, as did Doces Pares. Balintawak was actually a street where Venancio "Anciong" Bacon instructed his students in Cebu City. Originally it was not a style. The group was known as the Fighters from Balintawak Street.

History is so speculative, and I'm not a historian, there are others much more knowledgeable than I. I personally concentrate on establishing the art and actually making new history here in America. There is some very accurate history now coming available on the internet. Try this location for an accurate account of that era: http://www.necopa.de/index.html

In general though, here is a nice story from the past shared with me by a friend, Celestino Macachor in the Philippines and endorsed as fact by Roland Dantes:
DIRECT FROM THE PHILIPPINES, PROFESSOR PRESAS AND GM CHIUTEN PLAN A DUEL! Kumusta Datu Kelly,

Grandmaster Johnny Chiuten told us about how Professor Remy Presas challenged him and how it was aborted by Doctor Lengson who convinced Prof. Presas that it would be foolhardy to continue the duel because GM Chiuten at that time had a more powerful weapon. Doc Lengson warned Prof. Presas that he could hit GM Chiuten first maybe two or four times but that would not be as telling as when hit with GM Chiuten's steel whip even with only a single hit. So GM Chiuten promised to accept Prof. Presas' challenge again in the future with the same weapons to level the playing field, but he had to go back to Cebu. When GM Chiuten returned to Manila to take Prof. Presas challenge again, Prof Remy asked him: "Whom did you train with?" When GM Chiuten told him of his masters, first with GM Teofilo Velez, Atty. Villasin and eventually with GM BAcon. Prof. Presas just shook his head and told him it's useless fighting since they both trained with the same teachers. That's how they became good friends.

Celestino Macachor (This following section is from Roland Dantes) Hi there Brother!
Regarding that incident about GM Johnny Chiuten and the late Professor. THAT IS ALL TRUE BROTHER. This is one true story that I forgot to tell you last year...it was the late Doc Lengson who intervened in that aborted challenge because he was "Kumpadre" (almost like brothers) to both of them... Master Chiuten in his early years was always researching on all forms and styles of martial arts...he even went to Hong Kong and checked out all the schools then and, I wouldn't use the word challenge. He would ask the sifu or master of that school that he wanted to enrich his knowledge of martial arts...and if they could have a comparison. That would be the right terminology.

For Master Johnny is truly a very good, honorable, respectable person aside from being a true grandmaster. In fact my brother Johnny Pintoy and I call him the encyclopedia of martial arts. But then to this day he remains humble quiet and unspoken. Unless he knows you better. He is not at all a martial artist who has a violent temper, no way!

Hopefully, sometime in the near future, I would like us to visit him in the small beautiful island off Cebu, called Bantayan Island where he lives. A couple of years back, I brought my wife Cheryl to meet him there and we had a nice holiday. Did I tell you, remember when I was with Prof. Remy last year in Victoria? After I told him about my visit with grandmaster Chiuten with my wife, Remy brightened up and said, "I wish I can recover from this ailment soon so that we can go to visit him again." he added, "if ever you get the chance to visit him again, please ask him if he still has that 35 millimeter footage he took of me and the late grandmaster Anclong Bacon," "try your best Roland," he said. "that is a very rare footage and a very important part of the history of the Philippine martial arts."

Prof. Remy added, do you know kumpadre Roland, that we (Remy and Johnny Chiuten) are the only living original senior masters of Balintawak? Now with Pareng Remy gone, grandmaster Chiuten is now the only one alive out of the original group!

You know brother Kelly; to this day master Chiuten's name in martial arts in the Philippines is the most respected one. There was even someone from the states who went to the island to try him out (in a respectful way) and twice master Johnny brought him down, but master Chiuten did not seriously injure him. That's how he is. This guy went to mainland China and studied further for two years to improve his style and then went back to test his skills against master Chiuten. To his dismay, he was defeated again. There are so many more stories I can tell you about master Chiuten, we'll just have to leave it at that for a while.

Your brother, Roland Dantes

RF
That is very interesting; did Professor Presas want to keep developing Modern Arnis?

Worden
Yes, of course, if he didn't progress his system, he himself would be bored. That's the gift he gave me, he gave me the gift to blend and correlate the system according to how I felt it was feasible and functional. That is why he created the Datu level instructors to expand and continue the progression (Research and Development) of Modern Arnis. This statement was published in Inside Kung Fu August 2001 issue of "Filipino Martial Arts Magazine" in an article written by Dr. Jim Sullivan. The magazine was released in June or July 2001 while Professor was alive and he confirmed the contents of the article as accurate! The Filipino arts are breakdowns of sub-systems, in Modern Arnis, single stick and empty hand is your main goal, double-stick, knife, espada-y-daga, (sword and dagger) and staff become your sub-systems. Systems and styles are really a question of intent, what is the intent of that style? One style may be to hit you, wing chun is to remove a barrier and hit you. Aikido and Jujitsu, what's the intent? To control you with locks or throws and to position and manipulate you. Simple as that, style is flow, intent, and method of physical interaction.

For fighting arts it should be simple, direct, and functional for each individual's needs and capabilities. Going back to the historical stuff, there's so much folklore and lack of historical documentation within the Filipino arts that it's pretty hard to find specific facts and truth. You really have to go beyond the face value of what is told as far as historical stories and legends. Who influenced martial skills during a specific era? Better yet, who didn't influence the arts of the Philippines? I will repeat I am not a historian and do not have the time to do extreme research. The Philippines were a melting pot throughout history, the Spanish were there, the Chinese were there, the Japanese were there, karate, silat, judo, kung fu so on and so forth.

RF
The Spanish were there for 333 years, so anyone saying there's no influence from fencing has to be dim.

Worden
How could it not? Whether anyone makes reference to it or not, if you can make a reference to Spanish fencing you just have a bigger base of knowledge to draw and learn from. You're really complimenting what has been presented or your adding depth so it becomes a better teaching tool.

RF
So he changed or progressed a lot of things system-wise?

Worden
He took concepts and progressions of techniques and altered them to fit accepted commercial aspects and brought Arnis into the karate systems, jujitsu systems and martial arts from 1957 on. Remy, always accepted you, the student, for what you had and figured any addition to your art the Philippine arts could compliment would give you a deeper understanding. Here in America he became great friends with Wally Jay and George Dillman and together they toured the world presenting their seminars as the "Big Three." It is common knowledge the three exchanged ideas and concepts to broaden the knowledge of all their individual arts. He established a market no one else was tapping into, the seminar market. What has been established as acceptable teaching through seminars should be directly credited to Remy Presas as a historical president, no one comes close to him in that arena.

For example, it's okay if you do Taekwondo, just add the sticks and you'll understand your Taekwondo that much better. In the Modern Arnis format it's okay if you do karate or other arts. Remy did not try to change those who didn't have the vision to see the difference. He just accepted you and offered people his art. Additionally if you operated a structured school with a specific style he felt he was reaching more people by embracing and instructing the leader who would draw their students into Remy's Modern Arnis format.

[Phil Elmore]

I have a couple of Worden's instructinal videotapes and found them to be very good. He's quite impressive to watch.

[DJAVULS OGA]

RF
And with experienced people, you don't have to constantly watch over them.

Worden
Yes, well generally speaking he didn't enjoy babysitting or trying to conform people, much like Bruce Lee. According to some of his students, Bruce took you for what you had, he didn't want to teach you everything from the beginning. But if you had something functional he could add to your art. Of course, Bruce and Remy's personal students were the exception and specific elements and attributes were personally refined by both men to better establish the dynamic leaders of their arts.

In many ways I see Remy Presas and Bruce Lee on a similar platform because they were interested in their advancement and their progression at the same token. In order for them to progress they had to have people skilled enough to train with. They needed to have people to stabilize their theories and principles, and at the same time didn't want a lot of ties to hold them back.

The more you restrict your students, the more you have to guide them. Additionally important was establishing strong leaders that could take a concept and grow while maintaining a following of students that were just happy to be a part of the movement. They developed leaders and followers, simple as that!

RF
Are you the head of his organization?

Worden
Oh, no! This is where the problem really splits factions. Like Ed Parker's American Kenpo, Modern Arnis is divided in a multitude of directions by differently ranked individuals. There are the Senior Masters of the Philippines who are loyal followers maintaining Modern Arnis in the mother country, all ranked in 1998 by Professor to the level of 8th degree Black Belt. They should be considered the true leaders of Modern Arnis. The group of Datu ranked practitioners spread across America and Europe originally are considered those he was molding to be the ten Datu successors of which only six were actually promoted at the time of his death. The IMAF Masters of Tapi-Tapi all ranked at 5th degree, are lower rank grades than any of the prior mentioned groups, yet feel the "Master of tapi-tapi" status elevates them above everyone else. If this is true I honestly feel Professor would have elevated them beyond the 5th degree rank level. That position was created and rank was awarded just the week before Remy went into surgery for Brain Cancer. Additionally, there are many individual leaders of variable skill levels that received status and rank from Remy in the established Dan Ranking system, mostly from 4th to 6th degree black belts.

Without exception, the Family of Remy Presas born in the Philippines and now residing in the United States consist of five children who have formed MARPPIO, (Modern Arnis Remy P. Presas International Organization). His eldest son, Remy P. Presas Jr., is the leader with brother Demitrio, and sister Mary Ann sharing instructional duties at his side. The children are all talented traditional practitioners and instructors of their Father's original teachings. They are joined in unity by the Senior Masters in the Philippines all aligned together and recognized by the Philippine Government as the rightful heirs to the system of Modern Arnis! I support their efforts and back the Presas Family lineage as the true heirs of the system as well.

In all actuality they are the only group that is cohesive and non-argumentative!The American students are extremely divided and none seem to be able to put personal egos away for the betterment of the art. I consider the original Modern Arnis practitioners within the Philippines to have seniority over all the people worldwide, that group include but is not limited to, Rodel Dagooc, Roland Dantes, Vic Sanchez, Jerry De la Cruz, Ernesto Presas, Roberto Presas, and the MARPPIO Presas Family. Although westernized, this is really a cultural art and the roots of Modern Arnis are in the Philippines. Many American and European followers feel the family or even the Filipino Masters do not have a say in the direction of Modern Arnis. Really it is an issue of ego and selfishness from these students who have done little or nothing to establish a legacy of their own and think it is their place to step up and be the next heir to the system. To that I say "********"… all anyone has to do is read the foreword of Remy's book, "I DEDICATE THIS BOOK TO MY BELOVED WIFE, ROSEMARY, AND OUR CHILDREN MARY JANE, MARY ANN, REMY JR., MARIA TERESITA, AND DEMETRIO JOSE III."

When Professor left the Philippines he left everything he loved behind and became hardened from that loneliness. For anyone who thinks that Remy Presas somehow did not love his children or Rosemary Presas who was so instrumental in helping him establish his path in life must "reek of ignorance" and be a self centered ego driven idiot! How's that for frank? Just to add a little credence to this statement I was in Remy's room when the children contacted him after his surgery. Remy broke down crying, as I embraced him trying to comfort him he said "I love and miss my family, I didn't know they still loved me." Having been the gypsy all those years made him very much the hardened recluse and he didn't share his personal pain with anyone. He even asked me not to say anything to the people who were around him due to the jealous nature of those overseeing his affairs, the story goes much deeper…

As mentioned earlier, Remy did not think he was going to die from brain cancer. He relinquished control of his loosely organized IMAF but "not the system of Modern Arnis" to Dr. Randi Shea and Jeff Delaney. He felt that they would not turn on him during his recovery and that he had some continued control of the situation. This group has already fragmented, with Delaney claiming to be the new Grandmaster. While alive Remy confided in me that he had told Jeff to make no such claims, sadly Jeff broke that trust and did. Like I said he did not intend to die, when he was ready to maintain control he honestly thought that not one of them would have questioned his words. Remy Presas was dealing the cards of Modern Arnis and giving guidance up until early August 2001 until he became too ill to concern himself with the fragmentation on his art. Remy A.Presas passed away August 28th 2001.

See where the confusion lies? I was not a part of his personal business, few were. Remy Presas was very private and kept his business that way for many reasons. The issues in the Philippines during the 1970's concerning then President Marcos, General Ver, and NARAPHIL is a direct reflection as to why.

I make no claims to leadership or successorship in Modern Arnis other than being the first American Datu, I was independent and established as Natural Spirit Int'l when we meant. Remy schooled me as a personal student with a vision of my own. While he was healthy and alive I became the Natural Spirit Chapter of Modern Arnis even before he promoted me to Datu. I did not fit the mold of the follower and that disturbed the "paint by numbers," Hup, Hup, Hup, and drones within Modern Arnis. When Professor excelled my rank status above and beyond the pack of followers and promoted me as the "first American Datu in Modern Arnis in 1988," there was a lot of whining, like little kids wanting the same status without doing any of the research.

Remy Presas did his research to establish Modern Arnis and he seen the same motivated drive in my research, thus rewarding my efforts promoting me to the highest level in Modern Arnis "Datu". There's no question that Remy considered me the most progressive and advanced and has shared that opinion with many. Remy publicly endorsed every product I have produced even when we were not closely connected due to the political issues I created by being rebellious.

The "drones" like to point to that time in our relationship as if it gives them grounds to somehow discredit my rank, status, or achievements. Funny thing, Remy Presas never did question my dedication or direction in his art during my personal development, nor did he ever try to discredit me or pull my rank! This is reinforced by the fact when Professor was recovering from his surgery in 2001 he had planned to move in with my family and live with us in Tacoma Washington, well know fact and supported by his closest friend in life, Roland Dantes! Listen to the live radio interviews on my website (www.kellyworden.com), Remy was a dear and loved friend, not just a teacher; he felt the same about me and was extremely proud of all the accomplishments I directly credited to him and Modern Arnis.

As I mentioned, Remy was going to move in and live with my family after his surgery, I remodeled my gym in the house and turned it into his private room. The day before I went to pick him up in Canada he fell and experienced a seizure. After that it became a battle to get him released from the care facility and the protective ring of vultures. It was really sad Remy wanted out of Canada; I had eight caregivers set up to do alternative medicine. Acupuncture, naturopathic medicine, Zen Body therapy and such. I would take John Casebere a Zen Body therapist to Victoria Canada to work on Remy for three days at a time and you could see the improvement immediately.

Remy mentions John Casebere in the audio interview conducted June 21, 2001. John did all the treatments for free, he wanted to help and it did! Remy just wanted to get out of Canada because he was not getting any kind of consistent therapy treatments just more medicine that made him sick. I remember Roland Dantes during his visit had to take Remy from the complex to a office for therapy in a taxi cab. That was really weak crap!

It was not a good thing to have others more concerned with his money than his health and mental happiness. On one visit when I showed up, Remy was sitting up in bed in an old Modern Arnis shirt that did not even fit him, his shorts and shirt were two sizes too small. I left immediately and purchased loose fitting shirts and shorts that he could actually be comfortable in, $300 worth of clothes for comfort in bed.

I just couldn't understand the lack of personal care coming from those who supposedly loved him. Several times when I went up for visits I would go to a flower store and purchase flowers and he would chase the nursing staff up and down the halls giving them flowers, "always the player up to the end." He had fun and it kind of reminded me of an old "Groucho Marx" movie scene! On my 49th birthday, July 28, 2001, I went to stay with him and he was so happy. I told him I was bringing in table dancers to celebrate; he told me I would be in trouble if the nurses caught me. I told him I was going to say the girls were there for him, he got really excited and said, "Well maybe I will be in trouble!!!" He just wanted to get into trouble one more time! Of course, we were only kidding and had a good laugh!!

There is so much more to this sad manipulation of a great man, some who claimed to be in charge of things swore Remy was broke, owed the Canadian Government for medical care and the Government would not let him leave the country. Remy was a U.S. Citizen. In the United States Remy could receive "Medicaid" or even Welfare if he was truly broke, he was not! After his death a great deal of money was reported striped from accounts that were in Remy's name, it is further stated he died without a "Will!" Could this be true? It is hard to say if the real truth will ever be revealed but there are court actions that have been implemented. A U.S. Citizen and Canadian Laws make it very difficult to get any real answers to what happened.

The biggest problem with the Modern Arnis system is Professor did not establish a recognized lineage, he never put anybody in charge of the complete art. While he was alive you knew who you were by what you accomplished, that would stand out. Remy controlled everything and rightly so, except for when he got sick and established the Tapi-Tapi IMAF group. Actually he established a Board prior to that time but after leaving the Philippines the IMAF was always a very unstructured loose leaf organization.

Keep in mind though, even these close students did not tell him he was dying, almost avoiding the issue to keep him from being depressed, or as many people feel, to actually protect their position as IMAF board members. That is not for me to say, I am merely stating specific issues that have become public knowledge, everyone will make their own conclusions as time passes. Remy's health and emotions jumped back and forth, and up and down, of course they would. All his life he was an adrenaline junkie and was constantly training. Without the physical release of training, emotions started to overwhelm him. He would avoid answering the telephone because he knew it was someone wanting to be promoted to a higher rank.

I coined the change in his energy as a "self-induced depression." When people he did not want to see or talk to would enter his space he would drop his spirit level. The problem got to be he could not pull himself out of it. While he was strong he was always on the run, now trapped in the care center he could be cornered and manipulated.

Part of his business strategy is that he told everyone they were "number one" in an effort to motivate them to excel or "do your own work" as he put it and accomplish goals. Most did not listen at all, only hung onto his coattails for position or a free ride as an assistant to the Grand Master. I spoke with him directly about the confusion between the groups and he stated, "I know it causes problems but it also forces people to do something, to become qualified and accomplish things on their own, let them prove themselves, they are not Me!" Additionally, "I have done my work, they must do their own!" In private Tagalog conversations Remy admitted to Roland Dantes his dream had become a nightmare. While Roland Dantes was in the room with us he stated, "Datu Kelly, you are the only one who has taken control of your life and worked hard to accomplish so much in the art, the others are only chasing your tail!" "You two are my most famous students, I am proud of your contributions to Modern Arnis!"

That is a very true statement, realistically, I can't think of anyone in the Modern Arnis system who is internationally recognized or has accomplished as much as Roland Dantes and I have except my senior, Datu Shishir Inocalla, and my junior in succession Datu Dieter Knuttel of Germany, and that's about it. Each of us respects the other's accomplishments and do things differently but have achieved a great deal of recognition worldwide. Of course, this is speaking of the direct students outside of the Philippines. The Filipino masters under Remy Presas are widely known throughout the Islands for their own commitment in the art of Modern Arnis.

Without going too far into the accomplishment listing, I will clarify exactly what Remy Presas was talking and saying directly about me. The first video tape I produced was "Connecting the Systems" followed by an eight tape video series "Connecting the Systems, Slam and Jam." Paladin Press stepped up and we produced two "Personal Protection Knife" video tapes, followed by the "Destroy, Trap, Lock" video, followed by two "Renegade JKD Streetfighter Videos."

Next I self produced two "Street Stick-Tactical Baton Videos," followed by the development of the "Impact Kerambit" defensive tactics tool popular throughout North America and has reached the shores of Indonesia, Philippines, South Africa, Australia, throughout Europe and else where. It has sold in the thousands, one police supply company alone ordered 5,000 units at one time and there is a two-tape video instructional series for that product which continues to support a certification program for Defensive Tactics Worldwide. I developed the "Silent Fighter Training Dummy" almost ten years ago and it continues to receive rave reviews as to how practical and functional it is as a training partner for personal development. It comes with an Instructional video tape and just recently I received an order from Helsinki Sweden, it is known and written about worldwide.

It is worth mentioning the fact I was a Weapons Editor for both Full Contact and Fighting Knives Magazine for several years running. Additionally I was the Hand to Hand Weapon Instructor for the USAF 62nd Airborne Combat Controllers for two years. I am currently the Edged and Impact Weapons Hand to Hand Instructor for the U.S. Army 1st Special Forces at Ft. Lewis Washington.

RF
Let's talk about the Worden Knives

Worden
The WORTAC model by Timberline is made in two sizes. Pat Crawford, Bud Nealy, TOPS and Paragon Cutlery are also making knives for me. The Timberline knife alone has sold over several hundred thousand pieces, every owner knows it's a Kelly Worden Model and that Modern Arnis is my core art! Tops Knives has four different knives they sell as Kelly Worden Models primarily as Military and Tactical weapons for personal protection. I am personally making and completing a series of handmade knives called the Legacy Series, the first one was one I designed for Remy Presas while he was alive and we shared the excitement of it's production, "The Presas Legacy." It is available for purchase now and is a fixed blade in Damascus Steel! The second in the series is the Lucaylucay Legacy in memory of my good friend Ted Lucaylucay. It will be released for purchase within the next couple months. The third in the series is the Emperado Legacy named for and authorized by Sijo Adriano Emperado of the Kajukembo system.

RF What other projects have you been busy with?

Worden
I produced a radio talk show for over two years called "On the Edge" about martial arts and real life stories of survival. I produced a Cable access TV Show called "Street Wise Self-Defense" and the program received great reviews covering martial artists and their given arts. I am Director of Natural Spirit Int'l and the World Modern Arnis Coalition, Edged and Impact Weapons Hand to Hand Instructor for the U.S. Army 1st Special Forces at Ft. Lewis, Washington. Additionally I am a technical Advisor of Edged and Impact Weapons for the following groups: Jim Keating's COMTECH
Grandmaster Ron Pierce's Kajukembo Family Gung Fu
American Sambo -Director Dr. Brett Jacques
The Canadian Combat Instructors Association - Director Mike McGuire
The International Close Combat Instructor's Association: membership is strictly reserved for tactical instructors of Military Forces - Director Lawrence Jordan
Your publication, Realfighting
And most recently I was asked to become the Sergeant at Arms for the Lucaylucay JKD/Kali Association - Directed by Professor Leonard Trigg, which I accepted

RF
Who are the Datus of Modern Arnis?

Worden
In Succession of Rank received:
#1 Datu Shishir Inocalla- Philippines
#2 Datu Kelly S. Worden-North America
#3 Datu Ric Bong SunJornales-United States
#4 Datu Dieter Knuttel-Germany
#5 Datu David Hoffman-England (now U.S.)
#6 Datu Tim Hartman -United States


RF
Who are some of the top Modern Arnis masters here in the U.S.?

Worden
There are many skilled players and a great deal who have remained quiet and worked very hard to establish strong independent systems of Modern Arnis
Lee Lowry
Tom Bolden
Dr. Jerome Barber
Doug Pierre
Dr. Randy Shea
Bram Frank
David Ng
Billy Bryant
Michael Bates
Dan Andeson


RF
Is there a recognized Grandmaster of Modern Arnis now?

Worden
No, there is a self appointed individual who has limited skill and knowledge of the system that has claimed to be Grandmaster but for the most part he is being cast out and laughed at publicly. A real embarrassment to the system! Another student of Professor's has taken the title of "Founder of Modern Arnis 80" as if it was an archeological recovery of lost knowledge. Additionally he uses a Karate title of "Professor" in conjunction with his title of "Founder of Modern Arnis 80." Does that make him "Professor of Modern Arnis?" Both individuals have received awards for their efforts. Realistically the awards were granted by groups with no connection to Modern Arnis or Philippine Martial Arts.

If a Grandmaster is to ever be appointed to Modern Arnis it should be someone with a cultural or direct family connection to the Presas lineage. The seniors in the art should and can take the time to share their knowledge with a potential inheritor of the system and groom them for the future. "The Presas name is a legacy not to be toyed with, I stand by that truth!"

RF
Any final words you would care to share?

Worden
Yes, I have become quite disgusted about the petty situations in Modern Arnis today. I wish to focus strictly on the art's progression within the Natural Spirit and World Modern Arnis Coalition. This includes assisting the Presas family's MARPPIO group in their efforts to establish a direct link as the "Presas lineage," that should be respected by all branches of Modern Arnis.

It shocks me to see ego driven factions of Modern Arnis say they loved Professor and respected him; yet, I find no acceptance in their hearts for the real loss of relationship and love that his children experienced. It really comes down to a lack of life skills in those people. "Love runs deeper in blood than technical skills in an art," blended together, it would seem only natural that all the organizations in Modern Arnis would find a place in their hearts to help heal and raise the Presas name for generations.

I know I'm not wrong, but I don't suffer from selfish coat tailing. Many individuals have somehow rationalized Remy's sacrifices and commitments in life would somehow become theirs, if, they were accepted as heirs to the system. As a matter of fact, I have occupied a strong independent leadership position in Modern Arnis longer than most people and feel that these groups will never see eye to eye. My goal is to share the knowledge of the system, I don't wish to be a figurehead or an ordained leader for any group but my own, its simple logic and good business sense. I am where I want to be and my system of Modern Arnis offers the most diversified curriculum available with a growing membership worldwide. I am independent and intend to stay that way!

I have had many highly skilled practitioners (who knew Remy personally), recognize the distinct movements within my attributes and draw a line of reference between Professor's execution of techniques and mine. It is this element I continue to share with people in the arts; it's a gift and I offer, the continued presence of Professor through movement. It may be lost to some Modern Arnis wannabee leaders and their students because many are self-glorified. They didn't do **** when Professor was alive and haven't accomplished much except running their mouths off since he passed on.

There's a saying that applies, "it's hard to build a reputation on what you haven't done," and dreams are just that! I have carved my own direction and don't need them to enjoy the rewards of dedication; it comes to me through worldwide respect. Through the sacrifices of Professor, I have learned that I don't want my life to be scattered shore to shore. I am very happy with what I have accomplished, which is more than most!



*****

Kelly Worden's new book Connecting The Systems - The Art Within Your Art" will be out soon.



Kelly Worden can be reached through his website: www.kellyworden.com

[Phil Elmore]

I would buy that book without hesitation. Any idea if it will be available through Amazon? Or just from Mr. Worden's website?

[arnisador]

Is this the www.realfighter.com interview? The site is down, apparently.

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by DJAVULS OGA

Another student of Professor's has taken the title of "Founder of Modern Arnis 80" as if it was an archeological recovery of lost knowledge. Additionally he uses a Karate title of "Professor" in conjunction with his title of "Founder of Modern Arnis 80." Does that make him "Professor of Modern Arnis?" Both individuals have received awards for their efforts. Realistically the awards were granted by groups with no connection to Modern Arnis or Philippine Martial Arts.

Kelly Worden

Hi Folks,
Once again Kelly has taken it upon himself to set the record straight as to my intentions and purposes regarding Modern Arnis 80. So, here's another clarification (which I have made in both this forum and his forum as well).

1. Look in the dictionary. Founder means one who establishes something. He apparantly is mistaking this word for finder. This crack about "an archeological recovery of lost knowledge" is his refusal to acknowledge what I have stated before. Hmmmmm.

2. Yes, I do use the word Professor for my title. It was given by an association which has Filipino martial artists in it as well as others. In fact, one of Remy Presas' early students in the US, Rick Alemany is part of the board.

3. Does that make him "Professor of Modern Arnis?" No. that makes me Professor of Modern Arnis 80.

So, again to clarify:

A) I am a student of Remy Presas who achieved the rank of 6th Degree Black Belt and title of Senior Master.

B) I received verbal permission to start my own branch of Modern Arnis.

C) Modern Arnis 80 is my style of Modern Arnis. This effectively takes me out of any kind of contention or succession squabble.

D) I am actually on good terms with the majority of the Modern Arnis practitioners. There is no issue between me and any of the organizations.

Now a couple of questons to ponder: if this is one instance of taking previously printed (on internet forum) data and shifting it to something else, despite repeated clarification, how much of the other data in the interview suffers the same misduplication?

Also, why name me as one of the guys who has been forwarding the art and then not name me in the above reference of individuals who lumps me in the group of people who are not above board?

What is with it regarding these and other contradictions? I don't know. I do know that the data regarding me had been distorted.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Founder, Modern Arnis 80

[wvhs1980]

the first American Datu

Say it one more time I didn't get it the first 10 times.


Part of his business strategy is that he told everyone they were "number one" in an effort to motivate them to excel or "do your own work" as he put it and accomplish goals.

You suppose this might apply to all the graet things you say he said about you too? What a hypocrite you are.

I've been in modern arnis since the early 1980s and I never heard of you until Remy died. You're happy to slam other people but seem to think your God's gift to modern arnis. Go crawl back under your rock.

This is the kind of nonsense that drove me away from the seminars and camps years ago. People looking for rank, position, and power. That's why I just read here. I don't want any part of the organizations. This one just slammed to many people for me to shut up about it.

What crap.

[Bob]

I've been in modern arnis since the early 1980s and I never heard of you until Remy died.

Dear wvhs1980
Well since you have been in Modern Arnis since the 1980's you should have plenty of information to add to the lineage post. How about some of your insight there????



You're happy to slam other people but seem to think your God's gift to modern arnis. Go crawl back under your rock.


This statement I will dismiss on this forum out of respect for the Martialtalk moderators...... I do invite you to post your questions and statements on Datu Wordens forum... http://uechi-ryu-temp.ath.cx/forums/viewforum.php?f=37



This is the kind of nonsense that drove me away from the seminars and camps years ago. People looking for rank, position, and power.


I find this statement to leave way to much room for discussion and I would not want to waste space or time. Again I state if this individual must have an answer please post this "TROLL" non sense over on http://uechi-ryu-temp.ath.cx/forums/viewforum.php?f=37 and hopefully you can find your flame war.... Don't waste the Martial talk's moderators time when everyone and their mothers know that Datu Worden has his own forum and this same topic has been post over there..........

If any information arises that might be of interest I will personally post the info on this forum....

Bob

P.s. Dear wvhs1980,
Over on Datu Worden's forum we request you to state your real name. So if you would like a valid reply or answer to any statement or question you might have please post your real name..... or just email Datu Worden personally his email address is no secret, all you have to do is your own work to find it.....

[bloodwood]

I must question Realfighter's intentions here when they allow themselves to be used by an individual to self promote and ridicule just about everyone in Modern Arnis that is not associated with him.
Some of the interview is good however most of it is Kelly's version of Modern Arnis. If Realfighter were to interview the leaders of the other organizations out there I'm sure there would be a different ( real truth) about what Remy said or what his intentions were.
Instead of using this opportunity to bring the Modern Arnis community closer together, Kelly chose to take the low road of self praise.
Here are just a few things in question.

Datu is the highest level attainable in Modern Arnis.

According to Kelly this puts the 6 Datu above all ranks including the 8's from the Philippines. If Professor's goal was to have 10 Datu why weren't any of these people promoted to Datu?

Kelly praises Shishir for his great work and he recognizes him as his senior.
As he praises Shishir for doing the right things, he fails to mention that Shishir has just recently aligned himself with the IMAF- Shea, who Kelly ridicules and does not recognize. Why didn't Shishir go with the MARPPIO group and the Philippine side of Modern Arnis?

There are many discrepancies in this interview which along with all the self promotion does make this interview a bunch of CRAP.

[bloodwood]

If you would stopping looking at Datu Kelly as MR PERFECT and take the time to REALLY read the interview, you would know that Kelly did not do the right thing here.

[Toasty]

"that we (Remy and Johnny Chiuten) are the only living original senior masters of Balintawak? Now with Pareng Remy gone, grandmaster Chiuten is now the only one alive out of the original group! "

I wonder what Manong Ted Buot would have to say about this?

Considering that Chuiten trained mostly, if not solely, with Velez & Villasin he may be the only original of that group (although there is Sam Buot, Bobby Tabimina & Bobby Toboada still teaching who are all "originals" from that group as well so thats not correct either).

As I said before, I have no concern nor care as to how Modern Arnis keeps its house, but please keep half-truths and speculation regarding Balintawak out of these petty arguments.

thanks
Rob

[Cruentus]

I know I am going to state the obvious, but people tend to forget the obvious all the time, and need to be reminded.

Datu Worden's comments are not the black and white truth. What he say's are from HIS perception, which has been tainted by HIS point of view and motives. Just as the things that I say are tainted by my point of view and my motives. And if Mr. Delenay or Mr. Shea or one of the other Datu's state their perceptions, you will find many similarities and differences in opinions for the same reasons.

I'm not even saying anything positive or negative about Datu Worden's comments at this time, but I am asking for all people (whether involved in MA or on the outside) to not take one man's point of view as gospel. Research different opinions, and find the truth for yourself.

Toasty: Right on! I totally agree with keeping Balintawak out of arnis arguements. I'm in both houses myself, and I don't want the mess from one to carry over into the other, if you know what I'm sayin'! ;)

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by Toasty

"that we (Remy and Johnny Chiuten) are the only living original senior masters of Balintawak? Now with Pareng Remy gone, grandmaster Chiuten is now the only one alive out of the original group! "

I wonder what Manong Ted Buot would have to say about this?

Considering that Chuiten trained mostly, if not solely, with Velez & Villasin he may be the only original of that group (although there is Sam Buot, Bobby Tabimina & Bobby Toboada still teaching who are all "originals" from that group as well so thats not correct either).

As I said before, I have no concern nor care as to how Modern Arnis keeps its house, but please keep half-truths and speculation regarding Balintawak out of these petty arguments.

thanks
Rob

Rob,

Not many of us are fortunate to have access to Manong Ted. Many people are taught a couple of moves and think that they are doing the whole system. With GM Bacon gone now, there is no way to verify people who legitimately trained in Balintawak. Like we're seeing now in Modern Arnis, some people who claim to teach the art of Balintawak have bever done it. Just like when Leo Gaje claimed to be the top guy in Modern Arnis without realizing that Remy was still alive. But that is another topic that had been printed in the magazines already.

Renegade

[JMP]

Hello everyone

I don't think I ever so much talk about who is who in Modern Arnis, just do what Remy told everyone (have fun train, be nice to everyone, get along).
As for Mong Ted Buot I do know he was appionted by Anchion Bacon teacher the in Cebu club and when he moved to the states he was to teach here.
I have trained with him for years he never cease to impress me, his skill and timing are second to none. I realy can't say about these other teachers and grand masters.
As for Remy and Balintawak he told me about the same thing he said to Rocky (mine is not pure go see Ted Bout he is Balintawak)


With Respect
J.M.P.

[Bob]

Originally posted by PAUL

[B]I know I am going to state the obvious, but people tend to forget the obvious all the time, and need to be reminded.

Datu Worden's comments are not the black and white truth. What he say's are from HIS perception, which has been tainted by HIS point of view and motives. Just as the things that I say are tainted by my point of view and my motives. And if Mr. Delenay or Mr. Shea or one of the other Datu's state their perceptions, you will find many similarities and differences in opinions for the same reasons.


Paul
I agree with you totally about perception. We all have different perceptions because we all have different influences, information and most important LOYALTIES..........


Bob

[Bob]

Just a reply to some of the critical concerns in the Modern Arnis clan who don't have the gusto to respond personally.
I guess one that comes to mind is Dan Anderson wondering why I do not care for his use of Professor and the term Founder of Modern Arnis 80, well this is an easy one. The term founder implies that Dan Founded Modern Arnis in 1980. Dan's detailed explainations aside, face value, that's exactly what it implies, a person outside his circle reads it just like its written! He could use the term Director of Modern Arnis 80 and that would be a little more correct. He was written in at the recent Arnis gathering in California as Professor Dan Anderson Founder of Modern Arnis 80. Just a reminder,
Remy Presas was the Professor and the Founder of Modern Arnis, interesting that Michael Bates took so much heat for the use of the Professor title but Dan's use isn't an issue?
Let's see, Al Tracy founder of Ed Parker American Kempo? What's the difference? None...
My article seemed to be to self serving? To bad if people don't like my view of the different issues in Modern Arnis, in my view it is the truth, there is nothing warm and fuzzy about it. I have always spoken about my views strongly and stood by my words and actually signed my name, not some stupid web name like Bloodworm, slickwilly, or any other crap like that. As far as people who never heard of me, well gee crawl out from under the dojo carpet and check into the real world every 10 years or so. I have been around a long time, long enough to be promoted by Professor Presas (not Professor Dan) to a higher degree than most the critics pounding their own hairless chest.
I credit all the Filipino Modern Arnis Practitioners as seniors to me and all Western students in Modern Arnis, it is written in the interview in black and white.
I mention Randi Shea as a senior in the system, I speak with Randi at least once a month, he is the head of the IMAF inc. we are friends until he tells me otherwise. No Randi is not my senior or my leader in Modern Arnis, he knows I feel this way and it don't seem to bother him. Datu Shishir is welcome to support who he feels he needs to, he contacted me and we discussed his decision before it was posted.
Hey guys I have my own chapter of Modern Arnis, the shirts were printed and distributed when Remy was alive and healthy in 1988. Hey that could make me "Founder of Modern Arnis 1988." Before you accuse me of having a big head, check the hat size in your own self serving groups. If you don't like what I write, write an article yourself and try to get it published, most publications won't accept girl scout pen names, so stand up and be counted, or crawl back under the dojo carpet.

Still Standing,

Datu Kelly S. Worden
kellyworden@attbi.com
401 Puyallup Ave.
Tacoma, Washington
253-564-2867
_________________
Kelly S. Worden

[bloodwood]

Datu Worden

The use of screen names on this forum allows people to express their views without being belittled. There are many out there who would be afraid to confront you or anyone else of your level and rank just because they feel they don't have enough time in or the rank to do so. Therefore many people post here and not just the top people in the art. Everyone can have their say.

There is no question as to your status in the martial arts and the fact that you have done much to expand and promote the art. You have stated that others have their views as well and that you respect them for that as in the case with Datu Shishir. Just as you are OK with his decision so should you be with others and not always be the judge.

You have issues with Dan Anderson and the use of his titles. From what I'm hearing there are many others out there that share your views on this matter. Michael Bates used the title Professor in association with Modern Arnis and deserved the backlash. Dan on the other hand has mixed his title of professor of karate with his tile in Modern Arnis and should separate the two. He is causing problems for himself.

No one will ever agree on what the Professor said or didn't say. Everyone has there own version on this issue and that is what we have to live with.

You have used your Datu status to broaden and stretch the art. Now why not use it to bring more harmony to the Modern Arnis community. Honey is a better draw than vinegar. If you have written off everyone else, that's you choice but maybe it's better to reach out than to slam the door.

Bloodwood

[DJAVULS OGA]

I don't post as much as I read, but I found something I have a question on. In Datu Worden's interview he made the following statement.


Yes, actually I'm the first and highest ranked American that he promoted to Datu, that was in 1988. In Victoria Canada at the end of his life he offered me higher Dan Ranking but I refused. Years ago, when I was involved in the ranking aspect of the art of the art he had awarded me a 6th degree Black belt in conjunction with my Datu title.

From what I read he is correct in saying he was the first Datu in America. I'm not sure about the highest ranked. I found the following from the archives of the modernarnis.com site.


posted July of 2000
Sunday was an early morning as the Black Belts finished taping counter to counter and trapping drills. Gaby Roloff was given the honor of conducting the test in which 38 people participated including 20 testing for Black Belt or higher. Their performance and intensity were incredible and energizing. Following the test Tim Hartman was promoted to the rank of 6th Degree Black Belt making him the highest ranking practitioner in the United States.


Is the former IMAF site correct? Was anyone from martial talk present during thses promotions? I find the Modern Arnis section very interesting reading. I would like to know more on this topic.

DJAVULS OGA

[dearnis.com]

I believe, and I don't want to speak for Tim, but I believe the essence of that write-up was that Tim was the highest TESTED blackbelt level American student. (As in getting on the floor and performing during a test).
Chad

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Actually Remy announced that I was his #1 student in the US! It was also the highest test in over 17 years!
.
:asian:

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by bloodwood


You have issues with Dan Anderson and the use of his titles. From what I'm hearing there are many others out there that share your views on this matter. Michael Bates used the title Professor in association with Modern Arnis and deserved the backlash. Dan on the other hand has mixed his title of professor of karate with his title in Modern Arnis and should separate the two. He is causing problems for himself.

Bloodwood

Blood,
"Many others" is quite a generality. Care to name names so that I can address my critics?

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Dan Anderson]

Kelly,


Just a reply to some of the critical concerns in the Modern Arnis clan who don't have the gusto to respond personally.
I guess one that comes to mind is Dan Anderson wondering why I do not care for his use of Professor and the term Founder of Modern Arnis 80, well this is an easy one. The term founder implies that Dan Founded Modern Arnis in 1980. Dan's detailed explainations aside, face value, that's exactly what it implies, a person outside his circle reads it just like its written! He could use the term Director of Modern Arnis 80 and that would be a little more correct.

No, that wouldn't be a little more correct. I established a style of Modern Arnis based on what I was taught by Remy Presas and as the establisher of that style, I am the founder. You are continuing to foster the impression of something else. What someone else reads into it is something else and that can be clarified when it comes up.

He was written in at the recent Arnis gathering in California as Professor Dan Anderson Founder of Modern Arnis 80.

Yep.

Just a reminder, Remy Presas was the Professor and the Founder of Modern Arnis, interesting that Michael Bates took so much heat for the use of the Professor title but Dan's use isn't an issue?

The only difference here is that I never used the title until Remy Presas passed away. To me, he was the only Professor.

Let's see, Al Tracy founder of Ed Parker American Kempo?

Actually he went under "Tracy's Kenpo" for many, many years. he never used the term Parker Kenpo.

What's the difference? None...

See above.

My article seemed to be to self serving? To bad if people don't like my view of the different issues in Modern Arnis, in my view it is the truth, there is nothing warm and fuzzy about it.

No complaints there. We all have our own viewpoints and what is true for each of us is what is true for each of us.

I have always spoken about my views strongly and stood by my words and actually signed my name,

Yes

not some stupid web name like Bloodworm, slickwilly, or any other crap like that. As far as people who never heard of me, well gee crawl out from under the dojo carpet and check into the real world every 10 years or so. I have been around a long time, long enough to be promoted by Professor Presas (not Professor Dan)

Thanks for your acknowledgement of the title.

to a higher degree than most the critics pounding their own hairless chest. I credit all the Filipino Modern Arnis Practitioners as seniors to me and all Western students in Modern Arnis, it is written in the interview in black and white.
I mention Randi Shea as a senior in the system, I speak with Randi at least once a month, he is the head of the IMAF inc. we are friends until he tells me otherwise. No Randi is not my senior or my leader in Modern Arnis, he knows I feel this way and it don't seem to bother him. Datu Shishir is welcome to support who he feels he needs to, he contacted me and we discussed his decision before it was posted. Hey guys I have my own chapter of Modern Arnis, the shirts were printed and distributed when Remy was alive and healthy in 1988. Hey that could make me "Founder of Modern Arnis 1988."

Factually, yes, except you continue to have and create a misunderstanding of the meaning of the "80." You'll notice I don't use the term "Modern Arnis 1980."

Before you accuse me of having a big head, check the hat size in your own self serving groups. If you don't like what I write, write an article yourself and try to get it published, most publications won't accept girl scout pen names, so stand up and be counted, or crawl back under the dojo carpet.

Still Standing,

I expect nothing else.

Datu Kelly S. Worden
kellyworden@attbi.com
401 Puyallup Ave.
Tacoma, Washington
253-564-2867

All for now,
Dan Anderson
Founder, Modern Arnis 80
:D

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Renegade

Actually Remy announced that I was his #1 student in the US! It was also the highest test in over 17 years!
.
:asian:

Being in the midwest and training since early 1991 (which makes me still a baby!), I can confirm Tim's quote above; when I was around and in my area Remy had announced publically that Tim was his #1 student on more then one occasion. I hadn't even heard of Kelly Worden until after professor had passed away. Now that doesn't mean that Kelly didn't exist, for he was doing his own work on the west coast. Most of why I hadn't heard of him was because of my location. I think another reason why I hadn't heard much of him when Professor was alive was because Datu Worden had recieved his Datuship and rank years before I even started training, but had been inactive with Professor and his Professor's organization due to personality differences (or political differences, or whatever you want to call it, but Kelly does mention this in his interview). Although he was very active (as far as I know) teaching his programs on the west coast, he wasn't actively training with professor throughout most of the years that I trained with professor. Because Datu Kelly hadn't been around, this is probably why Professor was totally comfortable saying that Tim was his #1 guy, even though Datu Kelly had his 6th degree and Datuship as well.

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Bob

Paul
I agree with you totally about perception. We all have different perceptions because we all have different influences, information and most important LOYALTIES..........


Bob

Bob,

Your point is very true, about the loyalties. Everyone has their loyalties, and that does lace the way things are percieved. The thing about loyalties is that it's hard to understand the reasoning behind the loyalties, because loyalties are very individualized.

Example: In Modern Arnis I am currently loyal to Remy Presas, the art itself, Tim Hartman, and the WMAA. I have some degree of loyalty to Ted Redish, but since he is not active that loyalty is limited. My loyalties are not secret. But, the real question is WHY am I loyal to these entities. When I started Modern Arnis here in Michigan, my instructor was Ted Redish. Ted was a great teacher who I accredit to giving me my base in the system. He introduced me to Professor Presas when I was young, a man who was like a legend to me at the time. I continued to train with both Remy at seminars and Ted in my home town until Ted had to retire from teaching Modern Arnis. The few senior students in the class also retired when Ted stopped teaching, leaving me to face a decision: Keep training with Professor as my primary teacher, and try to teach what I know in a small study group, or quite? I chose to keep training. I got to know Remy a lot better, and after many outings outside of the training hall (breakfast, out to other meals, car rides, the bar, etc.) I got a flavor of the human being behind the legend. I have remained loyal to his wishes and his dream of Modern Arnis to this day. Here is where Tim fits in. Tim was a friend of my 1st Modern Arnis instructor, Ted. Ted would always tell the few of us who went to the camps that Tim was very good, and was the one to ask for advise when Remy wasn't available. When I would ask Professor questions, he would usually help me directly, but there were times that he was occupied and couldn't. He almost ALWAYS sent me to Tim Hartman for instruction; it was rare that he told me to ask anyone else. Then Tim was recognized on numerous occasions, and publically, as Remy's "#1 guy". This told me that Tim was the next best source when Professor wasn't available. Then after Professor passed away, I was sort of kept in the dark. I was ready to quite Modern Arnis, but Tim was the one who reached out to me when none of the other people I tried to contact could give me any answers. This, of course led me into the WMAA, of which I am now a proud member of. I feel that the WMAA, at least for me, has good people, and the best Modern Arnis to offer out of any of the other Orgs. And to top it off, it is lead by the next best thing outside of Professor Presas himself; his "#1 guy".


These are my reasons behind my loyalties, and I think that the reasons for my loyalties are more important then the actual loyalties themselves. I will say, though, that when I am on a public internet site I try not to pass on my opinions and perceptions as if they are fact. I instead try to use pure logic to make my points, and logic prevails even when I get nasty. My loyalties don't taint my logic either; logic is logic, and what makes good sense simply makes sense regardless of loyalties. I find that when one does their own thinking, then one can "do your own work" while still maintaining the loyalties, and giving credit where it is due.

Respectfully,
PAUL

:asian:

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

Blood,
"Many others" is quite a generality. Care to name names so that I can address my critics?

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Hey Dan,

Just change the title to "Head Master" and the organizational name to "Anderson Modern Arnis 80". That should end the problem.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by bloodwood

Datu Worden

The use of screen names on this forum allows people to express their views without being belittled. There are many out there who would be afraid to confront you or anyone else of your level and rank just because they feel they don't have enough time in or the rank to do so. Therefore many people post here and not just the top people in the art. Everyone can have their say.

There is no question as to your status in the martial arts and the fact that you have done much to expand and promote the art. You have stated that others have their views as well and that you respect them for that as in the case with Datu Shishir. Just as you are OK with his decision so should you be with others and not always be the judge.

You have issues with Dan Anderson and the use of his titles. From what I'm hearing there are many others out there that share your views on this matter. Michael Bates used the title Professor in association with Modern Arnis and deserved the backlash. Dan on the other hand has mixed his title of professor of karate with his tile in Modern Arnis and should separate the two. He is causing problems for himself.

No one will ever agree on what the Professor said or didn't say. Everyone has there own version on this issue and that is what we have to live with.

You have used your Datu status to broaden and stretch the art. Now why not use it to bring more harmony to the Modern Arnis community. Honey is a better draw than vinegar. If you have written off everyone else, that's you choice but maybe it's better to reach out than to slam the door.

Bloodwood

Hello Bloodwood,

You wrote in reply to Kelly Worden, the following:

The use of screen names on this forum allows people to express their views without being belittled. There are many out there who would be afraid to confront you or anyone else of your level and rank just because they feel they don't have enough time in or the rank to do so. Therefore many people post here and not just the top people in the art. Everyone can have their say.

--------------------------------------------------------------

First and foremost the use of a screen name does not prevent being "belittled", it merely allows one to not be identified, personally. I really don't care if someone uses a screen name, I will respond to the content of the post, not the personality behind the screen name.

To hell with being afraid to voice your own concerns and doubts in an internet forum out of fear that your time in system, training, rank or particular martial arts background is less than someone elses! If you know something to be true, say it! High ranks levels do not confer upon anyone the sole virtue of truthfullness and all encompassing knowledge - high rank simply means that one has high rank - how they got it and what their actual skill level is - does not immediately translate from the rank that they hold.

One of the reasons for hosting the 2003 Symposium and opening it up to any Modern Arnis Instructor who wants to participate (limited only by space and time considerations, not afilliations or organizational memberships) is so that we all can see for ourselves if an instructor has truely earned his/her ranking in Modern Arnis based on actual skill competencies.

I am not suggesting that there are not other criteria for advanced promotions/ ranks, nor am I suggestiong that Professor Presas, or any other system leader can not/ should not promote based on their own considerations. I simply want to make available for all interested parties a physical venue where the emphasis will be on actual ability and skills within the art of Modern Arnis.

There are a significant number of Modern Arnis instructors who trained with Professor and since I subscribe to the 'skill is rank theory', those people coming to the Symposium to present should be prepared to give it their very best shots. Those people who are coming to see which of the presenters are truely skilled in the art of Modern Arnis, should be prepared to be critical, but fair and honest in their personal evaluations. Each of the presenters will be judged on thier individual merits as Modern Arnis practicioners.

Since we will have some very strong presenters and skilled peoiple in attendence, the Symposium will also offer everyone an opportunity to train with a number of people whom they "never heard of before". We will also get to see, train and talk with people "whom we have never seen at the seminars and camps that we attended!"

And returning to my orginal point, I do not care what screen name a person uses. All I am interested in is whether or not the person is telling us the truth as they believe it to be and they can document their contentions in some emperical manner!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by PAUL

Bob,

Your point is very true, about the loyalties. Everyone has their loyalties, and that does lace the way things are percieved. The thing about loyalties is that it's hard to understand the reasoning behind the loyalties, because loyalties are very individualized.

----- deleted a paragraph ----- JB

These are my reasons behind my loyalties, and I think that the reasons for my loyalties are more important then the actual loyalties themselves. I will say, though, that when I am on a public internet site I try not to pass on my opinions and perceptions as if they are fact. I instead try to use pure logic to make my points, and logic prevails even when I get nasty. My loyalties don't taint my logic either; logic is logic, and what makes good sense simply makes sense regardless of loyalties. I find that when one does their own thinking, then one can "do your own work" while still maintaining the loyalties, and giving credit where it is due.

:asian:

Very nice piece of prose, Paul. It is logical and does not demean anyone else's point of view. This is the kind of clear thinking and self awareness that will will allow you to be both critical and fair with regard to what you observe. Are you planning to attend the Symposium and/or the WMAA Camp?

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[arnisador]

We used to call him "Big Detroit" and the guy he always brought with him "Little Detroit" at the Michigan camps. I liked him--nice guy, hard worker, great attitude. I remember when he got his black belt. It's too bad he's inactive!

[Cruentus]

Dr. Barber: Thank you very much!:) I do intend on attending both events. WMAA camp is already set for sure, and I have made plans on testing for Lakan Tatlo. Symposium is something we'll have to see about. It is kind of contingent upon my production at work, and whether (for work reasons) I can afford the time off during that month. But I will try to make both! :D

Arnisador: "Big Detroit" and "Little Detroit" :D That's pretty cool; I never new that! I think that Little Detroit was Ryan Chinowski, who tested for Lakan at one of the MI summer camps years ago. I ran into him at Worlds Gym the other day. I hadn't seen him in forever. I haven't talked to Ted in forever either, but the skinny is that they've been at my old stomping grounds at a TKD school on Thursday nights sparring, and working out a little with some people (no arnis). I plan on visiting them soon (next week if they are there) and catching up.

I'd like to get them involved again, if they are up for it. We'll see though; first off I don't know if they are up for it, and secondly I am a different Paul (training wise) then I was when I last did Arnis with them (almost 8 years ago). Yes, it has been that long, and yes, you are that old! :eek:

:rofl: :D

PAUL

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by DoctorB

Hey Dan,

Just change the title to "Head Master" and the organizational name to "Anderson Modern Arnis 80". That should end the problem.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Jerome,

I'm not going to change a blasted thing because others:

A) don't like it,
B) it offends their conceptions of how things should be,
C) have words they don't understand in the explanations I give (and refuse to look them up so that they do understand what I say) so they continue to have lack of comprehension of what I say
D) think I am trying to be the hot snot of Modern Arnis now that Remy Presas is gone and refuse to change their mind on that subject.

I will change whatever I will change on my own determinism and for no other reason! This has been my successful action and is what has made me excel in Karate and what will make me excel in the Filipino arts.

:soapbox:

Note: If it sounds like Jerome has pissed me off, he hasn't. Actually, we get along marvellously and it is a sound suggestion. I just don't do those sort of things with MY relationship to the martial arts I practice. That's all.

Yours,
Dan

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

Jerome,

I'm not going to change a blasted thing because others:

A) don't like it,
B) it offends their conceptions of how things should be,
C) have words they don't understand in the explanations I give (and refuse to look them up so that they do understand what I say) so they continue to have lack of comprehension of what I say
D) think I am trying to be the hot snot of Modern Arnis now that Remy Presas is gone and refuse to change their mind on that subject.

I will change whatever I will change on my own determinism and for no other reason! This has been my successful action and is what has made me excel in Karate and what will make me excel in the Filipino arts.

:soapbox:

Note: If it sounds like Jerome has pissed me off, he hasn't. Actually, we get along marvellously and it is a sound suggestion. I just don't do those sort of things with MY relationship to the martial arts I practice. That's all.

Yours,
Dan

Hi Dan, not a problem for me, just made the suggestion because of your stated preference for the term "head master". I fully understand that there are other issues involved in regard to this name/title thing and I also understand that I am not one people involved in the dialogue by forum-posts. Not a problem for me to be concerned about in terms of what you posted... I share a great deal of your attitude when it comes to people telling me what I should or should not be doing within my own martial arts organization.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[Dan Anderson]

Aren't titles a funny thing and the emotions they raise? If this were a more barbaric society and butt whippings weren't a civil offense where you could really get hammered in court, there'd be a lot less titles and more reputations...and a lot more quiet.
Dan
:D

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

Aren't titles a funny thing and the emotions they raise? If this were a more barbaric society and butt whippings weren't a civil offense where you could really get hammered in court, there'd be a lot less titles and more reputations...and a lot more quiet.
Dan
:D

Hello Dan,

I must say that I am in agreement with your statement.

Ranks and titles are system specific in reality and should also be indicative of ability level and skills. Such is not always the case and in Modern Arnis, there have been so many titles thrown around by the late professor Presas, that knowing just what a title means within the Modern Arnis context is exceedingly difficult. The only title that has had any real "staying power" is "Datu". All of the others, commissioner, guardian, protege, technical assistant, black belt society and govenor have fallen by the wayside. The MoTT title is too new and Remy died much to soon for us to determine if that title would have lasted under his
continued leadership. Of course, it is now a fixture because the people who have the title are not about to let go of it.

In the end, I believe that titles and ranks are only as valid as the actual skill levels of the people who hold them.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[DJAVULS OGA]

Maybe it's me, but this sounds like a big pissing match. After reading more of the modern arnis posts I get the impression that there are alot of people trying to cash in on GM Presas' name. How can you tell who's whom?

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by DJAVULS OGA

Maybe it's me, but this sounds like a big pissing match. After reading more of the modern arnis posts I get the impression that there are alot of people trying to cash in on GM Presas' name. How can you tell who's whom?

You are correct about there being a "big pissing match"; however, do not be so quick to dismiss the entire matter in
this manner. There are a number of significant issues that need to be addressed since Professor's death. There have been a lot of titles issued by Professor, in the past and most were very short lived. The obvious question that needs to be answered is are ANY those titles still relavent in the context of Modern Arnis as practiced in 2002 - 2003?

Professor, did promote a number of people to fairly high ranks, who were not skilled in the art of Modern Arnis. Are those ranks still meaningful with his passing? There are any number of people that the latter description could fit. A number of people will submit their own candidates for this dubious distinction, however the person I have in mind lives in Miami, FL.. He was promoted to 5th degree solely on the basis of being Filipino. The facts behind this promotion are documentable. The promotion occured at a summer camp in Massachuetts in 1993, if my memory serves me correctly.

Then there is the issue of the MoTTs, a title that is supposed to supercede all other considerations of rank and titles; plus there is the contention that tapi-tapi is the highest skill level within the art of Modern Arnis. Then there is the notion that a group of people who are ranked at 5th degree black belt are going to succed the late GM as the leaders of the art. That alone is a contestable question in terms of both logic and emotion, particularly, when one considers that there are people who hold 6th, 7th and 8th degrees in Modern Arnis from the late Professor, himself! (I am not one of those people!)

Add to this mix the fact that the current Philippines National Government, recognizes, Mrs. Rose Mary Presas and her children,
Remy, Jr., Mary Ann and Demetrio, fathered by the late GM, as the legitimate heirs to the art of Modern Arnis. This fact certinly spices up the matter and clearly takes it beyond being a "big pissing match"!

Finally, you have the fact that tha late Professor Presas, taught his art in the USA, Canada and Europe from 1975 through 2000, without ever establishing a permanent national or international HQ; he never established a standard body of techniques to be taught and mastered; he never established an objective and written set of requirements for rank promotions; He never allowed others to help him establish a formal written curriculum base for the art of Modern Arnis! Therefore, the resulting proliferation of claims, counter-claims and disagreements are
well within the relm of reasonable expections.

I do not take any position as to who is correct or incorrect. I do not presume to know whose claims are valid and whose are not.
I am not making any claims toward establishing a leadership role in Modern Arnis. My sole interest in this matter concerns the development and hosting of the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium, in Buffalo, NY on July 11, 12 & 13 at the Erie Community College - City Campus Field House. This event will allow EVERYONE from
all sides of the Modern Arnis spectrum an opportunity to meet, talk and demonstrate their mastery of the art. This will be a "stand and deliver" event. The presentors are self selected and only considerations of time and space will limit who will be able to demonstrate their variant of the art.

I first proposed and then decided to host the 2003 Symposium because I saw a lot of things posted, but no one taking the bull by horns to organize an event where the Modern Arnis players could see for themselves who truely has the ability and skills to do the art of Modern Arnis at a superior level of execution.

If you will allow me to paraphrase the lyricist, Mose Allison:

IF talk were criminal, some Modern Arnis People would be leading a life of crime, but in reality, their Minds are on vaction and their Mouthes are working OVERTIME!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by DJAVULS OGA

Maybe it's me, but this sounds like a big pissing match. After reading more of the modern arnis posts I get the impression that there are alot of people trying to cash in on GM Presas' name. How can you tell who's whom?

Yes, unfortunately, it sure does sound like it. And it is unneeded. We all have our own relationship with the martial arts whether they be Filipino or any other nationality and we will do what we will do and in 200 years time or less, it will mean less than a fart in a breeze. Dan, Tim, Remy Jr., Randi, Jeff, Kelly and so on. Who is going to care in the not so distant future? Read the history of any martial art. Styles are frail things and they do not last. They get changed and modified and and and and.

Yes, it is a pissing contest that doesn't need to be. I have been invited to do a joint seminar with Kelly and PRof. Leonard Trigg which I have readily accepted. It should be good for us and good for the art. More on that in the WMAC forum.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Rocky]

WOW!!! Where was I back in the 80s.

I read Wardens post with some amusement. The Balintawak thing is plain goofy!! He needs to check his facts. Every since Remy and I gave the frist public demo on Balintawak ( here in the U.S by him )in I beleave 1984 or 5 in Portaland orgon and Remy started to let it be more publicly know that Balintawak was his main core. More and more people have been trying to jump on the ban wagon. GM Buot and I have had numeros discussions about this, and my concerns of how Balintawak will be bastardized by some.

Modern arnis rank is still about as acturate as a rifle thats been run over by a tank. First its seems everyone forgets about Robert Demott, who recieved his 6 th degree in the early 80s and his 7th in mid 80's. Why doesn't anyone remeber this guy??? OH YEAH!!! cause most of them wern't even training back then!!!! Then there is Jeff Owens, Jeff Fields, Jimbo Power, Robert Steel, Charley Brooks, Clyde ( can't pronounce last name let alone spell it ) Jeff Nowicky, Ron Milen, Richard Davis, Rick johnson, and of course Yours truely all from Michigan all started in Mid to Late 70s.

I don't know Roland at all, All I know is what Remy told me about his actual stick fighting ability and I will keep that to my self. I know that Master Dan Anderson was close to Remy, as was Fred King on the west coast. I beleave Dan is fully qualified to do his Modern Arnis 80 thing. For the life of me I can't see why he would do it any other way. For those that are trying so hard to be someone of importance, don't forget that guys like Dan have been at this for quite some time.


In a nut shell just do your thing, if its right people will know and they will seek you out. And always give credit where it is due. Remy told me this a long time ago and I didn't beleave him, but in the last few years he has proven himself right.

Which brings us to another matter. As far as the Tuhon Gaje thing, e-mail me I will give you the name of the article and date and author. I am a little tired of information that I give others being used to indorse themselves as if they got the info from Remy and not me!!

Congrats Dan on your tournament win.



Rocky

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Rocky

WOW!!! Where was I back in the 80s.

I read Wardens post with some amusement. The Balintawak thing is plain goofy!! He needs to check his facts. Every since Remy and I gave the frist public demo on Balintawak ( here in the U.S by him )in I beleave 1984 or 5 in Portaland orgon and Remy started to let it be more publicly know that Balintawak was his main core. More and more people have been trying to jump on the ban wagon. GM Buot and I have had numeros discussions about this, and my concerns of how Balintawak will be bastardized by some.

Modern arnis rank is still about as acturate as a rifle thats been run over by a tank. First its seems everyone forgets about Robert Demott, who recieved his 6 th degree in the early 80s and his 7th in mid 80's. Why doesn't anyone remeber this guy??? OH YEAH!!! cause most of them wern't even training back then!!!! Then there is Jeff Owens, Jeff Fields, Jimbo Power, Robert Steel, Charley Brooks, Clyde ( can't pronounce last name let alone spell it ) Jeff Nowicky, Ron Milen, Richard Davis, Rick johnson, and of course Yours truely all from Michigan all started in Mid to Late 70s.

I don't know Roland at all, All I know is what Remy told me about his actual stick fighting ability and I will keep that to my self. I know that Master Dan Anderson was close to Remy, as was Fred King on the west coast. I beleave Dan is fully qualified to do his Modern Arnis 80 thing. For the life of me I can't see why he would do it any other way. For those that are trying so hard to be someone of importance, don't forget that guys like Dan have been at this for quite some time.


In a nut shell just do your thing, if its right people will know and they will seek you out. And always give credit where it is due. Remy told me this a long time ago and I didn't beleave him, but in the last few years he has proven himself right.

Which brings us to another matter. As far as the Tuhon Gaje thing, e-mail me I will give you the name of the article and date and author. I am a little tired of information that I give others being used to indorse themselves as if they got the info from Remy and not me!!

Congrats Dan on your tournament win.



Rocky

Rocky,

I am not sure where you were (* even though I remember you *), :) but, I know where I was. I not only remember most of the people you mentioned and a few more who were training back then. I also have had the priviledge to train with many of the people on this list of yours Rocky.

I will contact you for the article information later.

Rich

:D