Asking Questions

[MJS]

Reading thru the various threads and posts on here, I often see questions being asked of the more Senior students of an art, and at times, the replies given are almost as if the person being asked took offense to the question. Now, in my opinion, I believe that the only stupid question is the one thats not asked. I believe that there is a right way and a wrong way to approach the question. If a technique is shown and the student turns around and states, "No, I'm sorry, but thats a lousy technique and will never work!" chances are, that is going to be deemed disrespectful. If the same student was to ask, either during or after the class, "I'm sorry, but I'm having some difficulty making this move work. Doing it the way I am, I feel that it would not be very effective. Am I doing something wrong?" would most likely get a different result....or would it?

Many times, I get the impression that students are 'trained' to never question the instructor, because this is the way that its done, or because Master X made this technique work 80 yrs ago, so it still must work today. The list can go on and on.

I realize that we have many traditional and non-traditional folks on this forum, and this can be a 'hot' topic, so I respectfully ask that we all do our best to keep the replies polite. :asian:

So, what are your thoughts? Do you feel its right or wrong to question those that are more senior to us?

Mike

[OnlyAnEgg]

Good topic!

I think it's important to be able to ask for clarification, to be sure. I don't have anywhere near the experience to question Sensei's choices in what or how he teaches; but, something like 'Why does this kata end with a block?' leads me to a better understanding of the art.

[TraditionalTKD]

It is not polite to interrupt the Instructor when he is teaching to dispute a point or a technique. Also, the student's experience should also be taken into consideration. It is one thing for a black belt with years of experience to question whether a technique would work, it is quite another for a blue belt with all of perhaps one year of training to question whether a technique would work.
If our GM or any of his Instructors are teaching something, he and they will usually allow time for questions done in a respectful manner. If a student questions the validity of a technique, and they are high enough to be taken seriously, what generally happens is our GM will demonstrate it on either them or some unlucky victim. This happened many times in the old days, although I think often because one black belt wanted to see another be the guinea pig. Free fighting usually settled those scores.

[Bigshadow]

In our art, if you question it, that is generally seen as an offer to volunteer to demonstrate with the instructor. This usually settles any questions about it's effectiveness.

Questions are part of the learning process. I believe it is OK to politely question something.

[Andrew Green]

Students should most definately question what they are taught and not simply accept things at face value.

tib2Urowsdc

That might be a extreme example, but it hopefully makes the point. People too willing to believe in a technique will make the technique work in there own mind, unless they try it on a outsider.

One of the most important things a student can do is call ********, then test it. Maybe they are right, maybe not. Either way someone learns something, and that is what we are training for.

[TraditionalTKD]

Why did I know you were going to say that?

Keep in mind, there must be a balance between the Western tendency to question everything and the traditional martial art way of listening to your Instructor and accepting his teaching. There must be that respect. There simply cannot be a constructive relationship if a student is questioning everything I do. If a student insists on questioning everything I teach, I will politely recommend they train elsewhere.

[kingkong89]

i agree with you, there is a right way and a wrong way to qeustion a senior belt, but it is not always disrespectful sometimes you can just ask for clearification and there would be nothing wrong with that. if you qeustion the senior belt then do it politely

[Andrew Green]

There must be that respect. There simply cannot be a constructive relationship if a student is questioning everything I do.

Sure there can, it's all in how you, as the instructor, approach things. If you welcome questions and don't take offense to them, then they aren't offensive and can be quite productive :)

Training should not be about learning specific techniques and being able to do them. The "Why?" is the most important part, without the "Why" it is just choreography. And the "Why?" cannot be learnt without questioning things, lots of things, all the time :)

[OnlyAnEgg]

I dunno...I can see TradTKD's point. Constant questioning is disruptive. Some things, one should just learn. I should learn the kata, as taught, before I question. I should learn the kun and not question.

I don't think I'd get anywhere if I didn't question when necessesary and at an appropriate time.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sure there can, it's all in how you, as the instructor, approach things. If you welcome questions and don't take offense to them, then they aren't offensive and can be quite productive :)

Training should not be about learning specific techniques and being able to do them. The "Why?" is the most important part, without the "Why" it is just choreography. And the "Why?" cannot be learnt without questioning things, lots of things, all the time :)

Andrew I have to agree. This is certainly the model that I enjoy training in and fielding questions from students always helps in my own growth as well. Plus even if you do not know or have an answer that is a good training point for everyone as well. Questions and and an honest open relationship between students and teacher's is definately going to create a great learning environment.http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[charyuop]

It is all up to the Sensei. After few times I asked Sensei questions he told me he appreaciate I ask questions, but that shows him that I am just learning with my head. He would like for me to watch him carefully and train my body to do what he does so that I skip the brain processing part. If I really don't get it then it is ok to ask.

[chinto01]

Having come from a dojo that looked down at people who asked questions I can say that they were probably uncomfortable answering them because they did not know the answers themselves. Since leaving that environment some years ago I encourage students to ask questions. However if a student is having a really hard time and their question is taking up a lot of class time I will ask them to see me after class to finish our discussion.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

[Andrew Green]

so that I skip the brain processing part.

hmm... I think I tried that approach in High school... :lol:

[kidswarrior]

I think there is a huge difference between questioning an instructor/senior and asking a question of an instructor/senior. The former may imply a challenging tone, and result in a situation such as the above examples of the instructor demonstrating (with a vengeance? :)) on some unlucky student. The latter seems to convey respect for the instructor and instruction, but a desire to come to a deeper understanding of what's being taught.

Challenging someone in their own school/class is, to me, rude and disrespectful. Respectfully asking questions at the appropriate time (different schools have different protocols)--even if the question may challenge the validity of a technique or concept--should always be allowed, and even encouraged, IMHO. The same principles would seem to me to apply on these boards, also. :asian:

[exile]

When I taught skiing way back in the 1970s, I had students who simply did what I told them and I had students who asked questions, often very good ones, about why they were doing a particular movement. And one thing I noticed is that students who asked the good questions tended to learn faster than those who simply took in what I said. If a student asked, why do you want me to get on the outside ski early in the turn, and I explained that it makes it easier for him/her to roll their knee inward onto the new inside edge and get the turn carving, then the student had some clue as to what it was that they were supposed to be feeling—they could work on the technique much more effectively because they had a sense of when they were getting it and when they weren't, and therefore had a target sensation to aim at. Students who simply did what they were told didn't really have a kinaesthetic target to go after, so their solo practice was less likely to be effective.

All that made a big impression on me as an instructor. I'm convinced that the key to success in a physical discipline is internalizing a set of physical sensation that correspond to correct execution of the technique; for example, in teaching a roundhouse kick, you want the student to have the sensation of being almost totally well-balanced on the support leg alone, so that the striking leg can move at virtually any speed and return to chamber with no change in the kicker's stability. To develop that sense, there are certain exercises that prove useful—standing on the balance leg before a heavy hanging bag and delivering at least two turning kicks in perfect form off a single chambering—and I try to explain to my students exactly what they should be feeling when they do this exercise. When I work on hyung performance with them, I try to get them to understand that the `down block' of even the early kicho forms is a series elbow and forearm strikes to a trapped opponent's head and neck, so that they won't see the hyungs simply as dances to be learned by rote; that way, they's execute the block the way it was intended to be applied. If they have questions, all the better—I want them to have those kinaesthetic targets to aim at, and if they ask why they're doing something, it shows that they still don't have a clear objective in front of them—which is something I can try to fix. So for me, asking questions is absolutely the right thing. My own instructor also loves to get questions, because it shows the student's mind is working and s/he's actively trying to master the material.

Sure, no argument: it has to be done politely and constructively... but that's true in any context where one person asks a question of another one, eh?

[MJS]

Good topic!

I think it's important to be able to ask for clarification, to be sure. I don't have anywhere near the experience to question Sensei's choices in what or how he teaches; but, something like 'Why does this kata end with a block?' leads me to a better understanding of the art.

Agreed. A question that goes unasked, is not helping the student. If I'm doing something, I want to know what its purpose is, not just to be told, "Because thats the way its done!"

Mike

[MJS]

It is not polite to interrupt the Instructor when he is teaching to dispute a point or a technique.

Usually, when I'd teach, after demonstrating something, I'd ask if there was any questions. I'd rather have a question at that time, than have the student attempt to do something they're unsure of. :)


Also, the student's experience should also be taken into consideration. It is one thing for a black belt with years of experience to question whether a technique would work, it is quite another for a blue belt with all of perhaps one year of training to question whether a technique would work.

Maybe I'm misreading, but are you saying that the blue belt student should just assume because one person can make it work with ease, that they're going to be able to as well?




If our GM or any of his Instructors are teaching something, he and they will usually allow time for questions done in a respectful manner. If a student questions the validity of a technique, and they are high enough to be taken seriously, what generally happens is our GM will demonstrate it on either them or some unlucky victim. This happened many times in the old days, although I think often because one black belt wanted to see another be the guinea pig. Free fighting usually settled those scores.

Yes, there have been many times, I'd demo a technique full speed first and then break things down. I've found that it helps to ease some of the doubt, if there is any doubt.

Mike

[MJS]

Why did I know you were going to say that?

Keep in mind, there must be a balance between the Western tendency to question everything and the traditional martial art way of listening to your Instructor and accepting his teaching. There must be that respect. There simply cannot be a constructive relationship if a student is questioning everything I do. If a student insists on questioning everything I teach, I will politely recommend they train elsewhere.

Doesn't this go against the grain of what I said in the OP? Just because Master X used this tech. 50 yrs ago, and because he can make it work, doesn't mean that student A is going to have the same success.

Mike

[MJS]

I think there is a huge difference between questioning an instructor/senior and asking a question of an instructor/senior. The former may imply a challenging tone, and result in a situation such as the above examples of the instructor demonstrating (with a vengeance? :)) on some unlucky student. The latter seems to convey respect for the instructor and instruction, but a desire to come to a deeper understanding of what's being taught.

Challenging someone in their own school/class is, to me, rude and disrespectful. Respectfully asking questions at the appropriate time (different schools have different protocols)--even if the question may challenge the validity of a technique or concept--should always be allowed, and even encouraged, IMHO. The same principles would seem to me to apply on these boards, also. :asian:

Yes, exactly!! :) As I said in my OP, it all comes down to how the question is asked. Then again, it seems sometimes, that no matter how the question is present, even if its done in the most polite way possible, the student is almost 'conditioned' to not question anything, ever.

I've never had someone challenge me in a class, but I've had those questions. I'd usually have the person with the question come up and I'd do the defense on them. Not to beat them, not to belittle them, not to use them as an example of never asking me a question, but to help them understand what the move is. Sometimes its the feeling that helps the believing. :)

Mike

[Bigshadow]

Sure there can, it's all in how you, as the instructor, approach things. If you welcome questions and don't take offense to them, then they aren't offensive and can be quite productive :)



The flip side is too many or constant questioning just side tracks the class and it often dissolves into... well what about this? about that? what happens when aliens attack.?. :p It can get carried away. So questions can be productive, but they can certainly waste everyones' time.

[MJS]

The flip side is too many or constant questioning just side tracks the class and it often dissolves into... well what about this? about that? what happens when aliens attack.?. :p It can get carried away. So questions can be productive, but they can certainly waste everyones' time.

Great point Dave! :) Speaking for myself, but when I'd teach, there was times when there were limited questions. Usually Id find that the questions would pop up after they started working with their partner. I'd always walk around, answering as needed. :)

Mike

[Andrew Green]

The flip side is too many or constant questioning just side tracks the class and it often dissolves into... well what about this? about that? what happens when aliens attack.?. :p It can get carried away. So questions can be productive, but they can certainly waste everyones' time.

So you are suggesting that we ignore the possibility of Alien invasion? That doesn't sound very responsible, just ignore the threat and pretend it isn't there? Why don't you suggest people just leave there doors open and keys in the ignition as well? Or maybe walk around with $100 bills taped to there back?

or is this the carried away thing...?

Anyways, Yes, I suppose it could if it fell into a theory class. But that's what sparring is for, answering all those questions :)

[kidswarrior]

The flip side is too many or constant questioning just side tracks the class and it often dissolves into... well what about this? about that? what happens when aliens attack.?. :p It can get carried away. So questions can be productive, but they can certainly waste everyones' time.

Yes, agreed. I call this the 'What if...?' cycle. One person can start it and the whole (beginners' :ultracool) class can quickly devolve if it's not stopped. That's where your protocol comes in (e.g., only questions at end of demonstration; or, one question/answer at a time; or, I reserve right to stop questions when they're just repeating/getting silly, etc.). Good point, though. :)

[jks9199]

I've found that there's a happy medium, and a time and a place for questions. Generally, when I'm teaching a class, the only questions I really want are the equivalent of "I didn't understand the directions" or "what am I doing wrong." Encouraging too many questions, I've found, encourages over-analyzing way too early in the process - or it just encourages a digression/distraction. But I also occasionally have a class where I let the students pick the topic or ask questions instead of planning a lesson.

Outside of class or during a break is (to me) the time to ask other questions, or if we're training one-on-one. But even then -- the answer is sometimes "shut up, follow directions, and train!"

Nor do I subscribe to the "there are no stupid questions" idea. There are stupid questions; some are inappropriate to the location/instructor/topic, and some are just so poorly asked that they have no relevance. And there are questions that reveal that you shouldn't be participating in a certain class. If I attend a class taught by Ed Parker, Dan Inosanto, or any other person you care to name, but lack the fundamental basics of that style, so I ask him "how do I make that stance?" -- wrong place, again.

[kidswarrior]

I've had those questions. I'd usually have the person with the question come up and I'd do the defense on them. Not to beat them, not to belittle them, not to use them as an example of never asking me a question, but to help them understand what the move is. Sometimes its the feeling that helps the believing. :)

Mike

Well said, Mike! Just a very small amount of pain--enough to demonstrate what could happen, what would happen if the technique were full speed and power, can be a great 'teacher'. :ultracool

[JBrainard]

I never question the validity of techniques, but if I don't understand something completely, I always ask questions. I am in class to learn, and if I don't understand something, I'd rather ask a senior student (who are always happy to help) or the instructor (if he isn't busy with other students) about the technique than say nothing and do the techniques incorrectly. It seems like a no-brainer to me: If you don't ask questions when you need to, you will make more mistakes and progress slower than you need to.
Just my two cents.


Well said, Mike! Just a very small amount of pain--enough to demonstrate what could happen, what would happen if the technique were full speed and power, can be a great 'teacher'.

Totally. When a training partner is practicing a technique on me, if I were to tap out before I felt some pain, I'd be doing her/him a disservice.

[JasonASmith]

I've often said to my instructor/s that I WILL drive them crazy with questions(always after class) until I feel that I've performed the given technique in the proper manner(i.e., how they want it done)
I always thought that that was what being a student of the art was all about...Maybe I was wrong...

[Andrew Green]

It is, Skeptics make the best students, they keep instructors honest.

Students that never ask questions either have them, and aren't asking = bad. Or don't have them = Probably aren't really thinking about what they are doing and why.

[shesulsa]

There are students who absorb learning and use self-discovery as part of the process and know which questions they need to ask, and then there are those who want you to prove every single little thing.

To me, that's like my 14 year old daughter asking me every day, "should I brush my teeth now or in 15 minutes? why? What statistics can you offer me that prove brushing my teeth now would be more effective than it would be in 15 minutes? How soon will I get cavities if I don't brush at all? But can't I just floss and swish? How about if I gargle with alcohol, will that do the same thing? why not? Will my tooth enamel be harder in the morning or in the evening? how long will it take to wear away? What statistics can you offer me to prove your assumption? What is the source of your statistics? Who are they? Who certified them? How long have they been practicing dentistry? Show me their degrees, report cards, letters of recommendation and employment histories back to 11th grade. why am I using a soft bristle brush again? You don't mind if I ask you these questions for every instruction you give me, right?"

Teaching methodology can be trainwrecked by too many interruptions. I would tell someone who was that much a pain in my ass to go somewhere else or pay me for private study - where I would charge them an arm and a leg to ask me all the questions they want.

Pay attention, listen, notice, feel, experience, try, try, try again, tweak, clean up, demonstrate, try on a multitude of partners and allow your instructor to observe what you're doing. THEN ask some questions. If you haven't TRIED to learn, why should I give you the answers?

[Bigshadow]

Usually Id find that the questions would pop up after they started working with their partner. I'd always walk around, answering as needed. :)

Mike

That is usually how it goes with us as well.

[Bigshadow]

or is this the carried away thing...?


Yep. Your getting carried away. :btg:

:p

[Kacey]

I've found that there's a happy medium, and a time and a place for questions. Generally, when I'm teaching a class, the only questions I really want are the equivalent of "I didn't understand the directions" or "what am I doing wrong." Encouraging too many questions, I've found, encourages over-analyzing way too early in the process - or it just encourages a digression/distraction. But I also occasionally have a class where I let the students pick the topic or ask questions instead of planning a lesson.

Outside of class or during a break is (to me) the time to ask other questions, or if we're training one-on-one. But even then -- the answer is sometimes "shut up, follow directions, and train!"

Nor do I subscribe to the "there are no stupid questions" idea. There are stupid questions; some are inappropriate to the location/instructor/topic, and some are just so poorly asked that they have no relevance. And there are questions that reveal that you shouldn't be participating in a certain class. If I attend a class taught by Ed Parker, Dan Inosanto, or any other person you care to name, but lack the fundamental basics of that style, so I ask him "how do I make that stance?" -- wrong place, again.


There are students who absorb learning and use self-discovery as part of the process and know which questions they need to ask, and then there are those who want you to prove every single little thing.

To me, that's like my 14 year old daughter asking me every day, "should I brush my teeth now or in 15 minutes? why? What statistics can you offer me that prove brushing my teeth now would be more effective than it would be in 15 minutes? How soon will I get cavities if I don't brush at all? But can't I just floss and swish? How about if I gargle with alcohol, will that do the same thing? why not? Will my tooth enamel be harder in the morning or in the evening? how long will it take to wear away? What statistics can you offer me to prove your assumption? What is the source of your statistics? Who are they? Who certified them? How long have they been practicing dentistry? Show me their degrees, report cards, letters of recommendation and employment histories back to 11th grade. why am I using a soft bristle brush again? You don't mind if I ask you these questions for every instruction you give me, right?"

Teaching methodology can be trainwrecked by too many interruptions. I would tell someone who was that much a pain in my ass to go somewhere else or pay me for private study - where I would charge them an arm and a leg to ask me all the questions they want.

Pay attention, listen, notice, feel, experience, try, try, try again, tweak, clean up, demonstrate, try on a multitude of partners and allow your instructor to observe what you're doing. THEN ask some questions. If you haven't TRIED to learn, why should I give you the answers?

I think that these 2 posts most clearly state my attitude toward questions. I encourage my students to ask questions about what they are doing - it's the best way to know what they are thinking and understanding, or not understanding, about what I am teaching. At the same time, there are some questions I won't answer, at least not immediately, because I don't want the student bogged down with technical details until they have the general idea of what I want them to do - it slows down class, and can often cause more confusion than it clears up.

I will check for understanding when I give commands in class; I will check for questions when a set of techniques are finished. Unless someone is totally clueless, I will generally wait until that time for questions - during line drills, for example, I will demonstrate techniques, and sometimes guide a student's arm or leg through a motion - but I won't generally answer technical questions during that time. Students are also welcome and encouraged to come early or stay late and ask additional questions or get extra help or feedback.

If I know the answer, I will answer it as completely as I can appropriate to the student's rank and abilities - the answer I give a white belt about a technique will likely not be the same one I give a green belt or red belt about the same technique, and the answer I give a 12 year-old may not be the same one I give an adult; it depends on where the student is technically and mentally, what the question was, and what I want them to know - there are some things I don't want to tell white belts that I will tell red belts, because I expect that red belts will have a more in-depth understanding of technical details that would only confuse and frustrate white belts.

If I don't know the answer, I will tell the student(s) that, and find out as quickly as possible, and then let them know.

[exile]

Challenging someone in their own school/class is, to me, rude and disrespectful. Respectfully asking questions at the appropriate time (different schools have different protocols)--even if the question may challenge the validity of a technique or concept--should always be allowed, and even encouraged, IMHO. The same principles would seem to me to apply on these boards, also. :asian:


There are students who absorb learning and use self-discovery as part of the process and know which questions they need to ask, and then there are those who want you to prove every single little thing.

Pay attention, listen, notice, feel, experience, try, try, try again, tweak, clean up, demonstrate, try on a multitude of partners and allow your instructor to observe what you're doing. THEN ask some questions. If you haven't TRIED to learn, why should I give you the answers?

These two posts highlight one of the important points in the student/instructor relationship: everyone has to be engaged in the process of learnining in a `good faith' kind of way. In my classroom teaching, I make sure my students know they can stop me at any time with a question. But I also make it clear that if the answer is going to be too technical, or take us too far afield, that they're just going to have to accept my reply to that effect. In other cases, all I can do is tell them that the method I'm outlining has to be actually applied to real data before its usefulness is visible; for the time being, I'll ask them to accept it as a promising approach, and when they actually have to do their own extended research they's see just why it makes sense to do things that way. I'll take their questions very seriously, but they have to take my answers equally seriously. This is just a slight twist on `If you haven't TRIED to learn, why should I give you the answers?'; the point is that in some cases, if they haven't tried to learn, there's no way the actual answer you give them will make any sense to them, and they need to hear that.

It's a two-way street. And the kind of pestering nit-picking responses that Shesulsa's referring to are very much not a good-faith questions.

[Xue Sheng]

So you are suggesting that we ignore the possibility of Alien invasion? That doesn't sound very responsible, just ignore the threat and pretend it isn't there? Why don't you suggest people just leave there doors open and keys in the ignition as well? Or maybe walk around with $100 bills taped to there back?

Actually in the event of an Alien invasion you should just leave your doors open with keys in the ignition and tape a $100 bills to your dash board.



or is this the carried away thing...?


Nope sound perfectly fine to me... but then I did suggest the above action.

[Andrew Green]

Actually in the event of an Alien invasion you should just leave your doors open with keys in the ignition and tape a $100 bills to your dash board.


So you train in tenu-foilu-hatu-do too? :D

[MJS]

Yes, agreed. I call this the 'What if...?' cycle. One person can start it and the whole (beginners' :ultracool) class can quickly devolve if it's not stopped. That's where your protocol comes in (e.g., only questions at end of demonstration; or, one question/answer at a time; or, I reserve right to stop questions when they're just repeating/getting silly, etc.). Good point, though. :)

What if or even if, are things that come up and are discussed all the time in Kenpo. :) I've had students ask those types of questions all the time. I'd usually stress to them to focus on the base moves first and then worry about what if, although I'd show some basic examples. :)

Mike

[Xue Sheng]

So you train in tenu-foilu-hatu-do too? :D

I don't leave home without it :uhyeah:

[Andrew Green]

Answer #2:

It really depends, at the end of the day people rarely are doing martial arts for the fighting aspect. It might be what some say, or why they started, but it's not why we keep coming back every week to sweat and bruise.

Part of what I like is the physical strategy game part. How do you make someone do something they don't want to and keep them from doing it to you?

We train because we enjoy the act of training, at least I think most of us do.

But that means different things to different people. To me that means questioning everything, trying it out in sparring, and a good class is when I realise there was a better way to do something I've been doing for a long time.

For other people what makes training enjoyable is not that, but rather the tradition behind it. "Humbling" oneself through obedience and not questioning those senior. Perfecting something the way it is, not trying to improve it, or change it to suit you, but working towards perfection of a already existing ideal.

Both have benefits, I just like the first, and people that like the second would probably not like training with me :)

[kuntawguro]

I allow questions to be asked- but not disrupt the flow of class.

These say it better than i can. Please don't accuse me of being a Mr. Miyagi, I had these posted at my school and i do believe in them.



The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. ~William Arthur Ward

True teaching is one that not teaches knowledge but stimulates children to gain it.
Jill Eggleton

The mind is like the stomach. It's not how much you put into it,
but how much it digests. Albert Jay Nock

The best teachers are those that show you where to look
but don't tell you what to see.
Alexandra K. Trenfor

Ask a question and you're a fool for three minutes;
do not ask a question and you're a fool for the rest of your life. Chinese Proverb

The test of a good teacher is not how many questions he can ask his pupils that they will answer readily, but how many questions he inspires them to ask him
which he finds it hard to answer Wellington Rollins

[bluemtn]

I've asked one of my instructors to help clarify certain self defense moves. Sure, it might've meant I was to be their "guinea pig", but I didn't mind. I've asked what- if questions, etc. Of course, I didn't say it in a way that sounded like, "I don't believe you, so prove it!", either... I think a student should be able to ask such things from their instructor, as long as it's done with respect. Also, it helps one to learn.

[TraditionalTKD]

And sometimes you just have to shut up and listen.