Which is your preferred weapon?

[xTNVx NirVana]

What's your preferred weapon? Mine is the Bo Staff.

[still learning]

Hello, The weapon the that will almost always save your life is your MOUTH.

To be able to talk your way out of any situtions and NOT let it get worst!

2nd best is the legs...use for running away.

These are things you will always have on you no matter where you go!

Along with be humble, kindness, and honestly.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Off course if you could carry anything? ....M16? Jet Li? ...

Nunchakes is a flavoriate weapon! ...........Aloha (we like using coconuts too!)

[tellner]

True, but it doesn't really answer the question. Martial arts won't teach you how to talk effectively. And they won't teach you how to run. The original correspondent is asking "What tool normally considered as a weapon and not part of your body do you most enjoy practicing with or, if it came to it, fighting with." But he assumed that you would give him a straight answer, not attempt to school him like a newbie in need of Wisdom from the Master.

For me it depends on what I'm trying to do. For long distance the asian bow or a rifle. For somewhat closer a Mossberg 590 with a bayonet or a Glock 21. Non projectile? I like the Shamshir and Dahl (the shield, not the lentil), the slungshot, the yataghan and the sap although the thrusting spear has a lot to recommend it as king of the battlefield.

[LawDog]

Listed by range applications.
1) A Tanto edged knife / 4" - 5" blade / 440 S.S.
2) A baton / 12" hard plastic / steel ball at one endm
3) S&W L frame S.S. 357 mag./ 4" barrel,
4) Remington 12 ga. pump / 14" barrel / imp. bore,
5) Compound bow / optical sight / counter balanced / mechanical release,
6) Valmet assault rifle / 5.56 cal./ 18" barrel / 30 rd. mag.
7) Springfield Armory M1A1 / International match / 7.62 x 59. / 20 rd. mag.
:ultracool

[KenpoTex]

at "bad breath range": a small fixed blade knife (4" blade give or take) or a blackjack

beyond contact range: Glock 19, 12-gauge Rem. 870, or AK depending on specific circumstances.

[xTNVx NirVana]

I also like my P266 Pistol, but since I'm young, I can only use an Airsoft gun...
:P

[zDom]

I really like escrima sticks and the bokken.

[michaeledward]

At this point, I am working my bo staff quite extensively. I have decided that I like the weapon and am attempting to learn to use it more effectively. There are a couple of interesting books that are on my shopping list; one of which goes into the history of the Quarterstaff ... which is a European version of the big long stick.

I received a nice bo staff for Christmas from one of the online martial arts outfitters. But, then I searched a bit more, and found this ...

www.bostaff.com (http://www.bostaff.com)

Mark Taylor built me a beautiful 6'6" bostaff made of bloodwood and wenge. It's a heafty bo, weighing in at 3 pounds 7 ounces. I am considering adding to my collection from Mr. Taylor as well.

[Kenzan]

My preferred weapon?

My Mind.

:)

[LawDog]

Kenzan,
If they disarm you then what?

tis just a joke.
:boing2:

[Touch Of Death]

If I had to choose a weapon I would prefer a pair of sticks, but I always train with bare handed combat in mind with the use of environmental weapons at hand.
Sean

[Sukerkin]

Well, seeing as how the only weapon that I train with these days is the katana, that'll have to be my response.

I like questions that are that easy to answer :lol:.

[Touch Of Death]

My preferred weapon?

My Mind.

:)Lets play chess before open combat. I want to know what sort of moster I'm dealing with. LOL
Sean

[Carol]

At this point, I am working my bo staff quite extensively. I have decided that I like the weapon and am attempting to learn to use it more effectively. There are a couple of interesting books that are on my shopping list; one of which goes into the history of the Quarterstaff ... which is a European version of the big long stick.

I received a nice bo staff for Christmas from one of the online martial arts outfitters. But, then I searched a bit more, and found this ...

www.bostaff.com (http://www.bostaff.com)

Mark Taylor built me a beautiful 6'6" bostaff made of bloodwood and wenge. It's a heafty bo, weighing in at 3 pounds 7 ounces. I am considering adding to my collection from Mr. Taylor as well.

That sounds gorgeous, Mike! Love to see a pic if you have a chance to post it.

[kuntawguro]

My preferred weapon is that of an escrima stick- they are cheap, easily hidden, useful( to prop open windows) not likely to be used by a 10 year old to kill his brother, and they are not illegal to own. Tho if you have one on the front seat of your car and get stopped- expect to be looking down the barrel of a 9 mm while the cop asks for your ID.

[HKphooey]

UZI, 9 MM :) Sorry, Arnold reference...

But seriously, the kamas.

[Bigshadow]

I don't have a preferred weapon.

[tellner]

My preferred weapon is that of an escrima stick- they are cheap, easily hidden, useful( to prop open windows) not likely to be used by a 10 year old to kill his brother, and they are not illegal to own. Tho if you have one on the front seat of your car and get stopped- expect to be looking down the barrel of a 9 mm while the cop asks for your ID.

Strangely enough something like that happened to me a long time back. Officer friendly had had a bad day and decided to take it out on me. As soon as I pulled into the parking lot at the Dunkin' Donuts (honestly) he was right on me accusing me of picking up hookers and threatening to confiscate my car. Before I even had the motor turned off he had stuck his head and flashlight in the driver's side window. Still muttering about "If I see you talking to known prostitutes I'll have..." he saw the (battered, taped up) sticks on passenger's seat. He asked "Are those Kali sticks?" I answered that they were. He started to calm down and realized that he had just stuck his upper body inside a car that could be thrown into reverse. Another "If I ever hear that you're hanging around known prostitutes..." and he decided he'd had enough fun.

I swear, the Lord was with me that day. If it hadn't been for Divine Intervention I would have opened my mouth and said what was in my heart, to wit "It's not illegal to talk to anyone. And if you're so interested in whores here's twenty bucks. Maybe they'll let you sniff it." But that would have been wrong...

[bushidomartialarts]

for training i really enjoy working the jo. something elegant about it.

for a carry weapon i really like the cane. it's versatile, has more range than most other stuff folks carry. also it's non-escalatory. if a guy sees i have a knife or a baseball bat, that's as likely as not to provoke trouble. cane doesn't have that problem.

i have a 13" tanto by the bed in case i have to get between an intruder and my wife, but really i'd prefer to use the back door if i have any option.

if i'm out of cane range, i prefer my feet. i really don't see myself getting into a situation where i'd have to engage if i was more than 10 feet away. i'm a terrible shot, but a fast runner.

[Sukerkin]

Excellent post, Bushi. I'm of much the same mindset. I know it annoys Tellner (I meant to ask why by the way) but the first laws of MA, akin to the Laws of Robotics are:

1) Avoid the situation
2) Talk your way out of the situation you couldn't avoid
3) Run away from the situation you couldn't talk your way out of
4A) Apply the minimal force necessary to permit (3) to be implemented

or

4B) Apply maximum, maybe lethal, force and to hell with the legal consequences (better tried by 12 etc).

For me, I'll follow that logic through to 4A. Daft as it sounds, 4B is reserved for dealing with threats to those I love.

[michaeledward]

That sounds gorgeous, Mike! Love to see a pic if you have a chance to post it.

Here are some photos. The picture with three bo's in it is to reference the size. The first two are standard 6' bo staffs. I received one as a Christmas present, and proceeded to crack it in the first couple of sessions using it. I have since dowelled the damage, but, had purchased the second bo before I did my woodworking. I then ordered the fancy bo from Mark Taylor.

The second photo shows the size comparison ... the 6'6" staff is about 1/4 inch thicker in diameter than the standard bos, over the entire length.

The third photo, I hope will show the contrast between the Bloodwood and Wenge ... I was hoping for a Red/Black bo. The only true black wood is Ebony, and that gets very expensive. Wenge was the second choice.

The last photo shows the lamination pattern. I selected an octagon pattern. This lamination (and Mr. Taylor offers many different patterns) makes this stick solid. There is no bend. By selecting different laminations, and different tapers, you can get some very pretty looking bostaffs.

[still learning]

[quote=tellner;764453]True, but it doesn't really answer the question. Martial arts won't teach you how to talk effectively. And they won't teach you how to run. The original correspondent is asking "What tool normally considered as a weapon and not part of your body do you most enjoy practicing with or, if it came to it, fighting with." But he assumed that you would give him a straight answer, not attempt to school him like a newbie in need of Wisdom from the Master.

For me it depends on what I'm trying to do. For long distance the asian bow or a rifle. For somewhat closer a Mossberg 590 with a bayonet or a Glock 21. Non projectile? I like the Shamshir and Dahl (the shield, not the lentil), the slungshot, the yataghan and the sap although the thrusting spear has a lot to recommend it as king of the battlefield.[/quo

Hello, It is sad your school and most schools do NOT teach verbal art of self-defense. The number one technique we ALL NEED to use first.

Our school too, do not teach as much...but my Instructor do add some verbal training to the classes. ..........Thank-you and Aloha

[tellner]

It's surprising how much comes through implicitly rather than explicitly in Guru Plinck's classes. Body carriage. Eye contact. A sensitivity to distance. Attitude. Most all a lot of practice in reading intention. If you have a good sense of when the situation is dangerous and what the other guy is thinking about doing it makes whatever else you plan on doing a lot easier and gets you off the mark faster.

As I said though, most people already know how to back off with or without backing down, how to smooth things over and what is necessary to keep from having a fight if one really doesn't want to. Women in particular are almost all past masters at this sort of thing. They have a lifetime of training. The trick is being able to make decent decisions under pressure and act on them wholeheartedly and efficiently.

[tradrockrat]

The easy answer is whatever weapon is handy, but I have a definite preference for wood weapons from 6 inches to 7 feet long. Why? Because I don't carry a knife or a kukri around with me, nor do I carry my Mossberg or pistol, so unless we're talking home invasion, I won't have them to use.

Wooden weapon skills translate very well to almost any found weapon in a normal setting.

[tshadowchaser]

My mind

but because that is sliping once in a while I carry a cane and a knife

[whitedragon_48]

For me it had to be a combo of my Spiked Tomahawk and my Bagwell Hell's Belle. Gun are nice, but inside the 10' range, you're mine.

[Grenadier]

In this order of preference:

Long, long range: Remington 700 (.308 Winchester, my own BTHP handloaded ammo)

Long range: Bushmaster XM15-E2S (.223 Remington, Winchester USA Q3131A 55 grain FMJ ammo)

Short to medium range: Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun (Federal Tactical 00 12 gauge buckshot)

Short range: Glock 17 (Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+ JHP), or any of my Glocks for that matter...

Close quarters: Katana, bo, sai, and of course, Spyderco Police folding lockback knife. Under most conditions for melee weapons, I can really only carry my Spyderco around, since the authorities may frown on folks carrying around swords, 6' long weapons, etc.




The third photo, I hope will show the contrast between the Bloodwood and Wenge ... I was hoping for a Red/Black bo.

Beautiful weapons indeed.

I do find it unusual, though, that someone was able to make a decent bo from bloodwood. From my experiences, it's a great wood for shorter weapons, but I've had bad luck with bloodwood warping in longer weapons, even with regular oiling and sanding (I use boiled linseed oil).



The only true black wood is Ebony, and that gets very expensive.

No kidding. Also getting very difficult to find these days, especially since some of those are on the endangered list.

[michaeledward]

Beautiful weapons indeed.

I do find it unusual, though, that someone was able to make a decent bo from bloodwood. From my experiences, it's a great wood for shorter weapons, but I've had bad luck with bloodwood warping in longer weapons, even with regular oiling and sanding (I use boiled linseed oil).

No kidding. Also getting very difficult to find these days, especially since some of those are on the endangered list.

It may be that he is able to use bloodwood because of the way he laminates. In this case, perhaps, the wenge provides the rigidity of length to prevent warping. I don't know. He does have quite a few unusual lamination patterns that he uses.

As for Ebony .... Mr. Taylor tells me has made at least two ebony bos in the past ... and offered to make one for me, for a bit under $400.00.

[SideWinderGX]

some of you guys are overdoing the 'my mouth and my legs are the best weapons i have' line...its WAY too overused, and doesnt contribute towards the topic at all (even if the rest of your post does).

weapon, as in not hands or feet? id have to say the escrima stick. plain and simple, to the point, hard as a rock, and when used correctly and with technique it can be devastating. you can also stay marginally away from someone with a knife and use it, because of its length, although it isnt much.

[Darth F.Takeda]

I really like classical and anceint weapons from the past, both eastern and western ( I'd rather have a nice Gladus on my wall then a Katana)but you cant walk down the street with half of them with out problems.

Our Dojo teaches only a few weapons.
Knife, Garrote using 550 cord, Club, kubaton/yawara,Jo and a rolled up magizine ( rol one real tight and you'll see where we are coming from). We also work on gun retention and close in deployment. We spend the most time on the knife.

I also study FMA with Dave Wink, so more stick and knife work for me.

My absolute favorite weapon for self protection is my Springfeild Armoury 1911A1 and my Glock 19, but I carry knives 95% of the time.
In my home, depnding on where in the house trouble would happen, I got a AR-15 Carbine with Surefire light and Acog sights and a 870 Combat shotgun, or one of a bunch of knives and common items.

"One mind, any weapon." Originally from Koryu arts, but it's a slogan for MCMAP
" There are no dangerous weapons,just dangerous people."- Unknown British SOE instructor

Some of my favorite relavent quotes.

BTW Sweet Bo staff.

[JBrainard]

Which is your preferred weapon?

The one I have on me when the **** hits the fan. Currently, that would be my fist.

[Bill Sempf]

Martial arts won't teach you how to talk effectively. And they won't teach you how to run.

Not true. Hensojutsu and Intonjutsu are common studies in Ninjutsu.

As for me, I like to carry a leatherman with a thumb release blade. I can't imagine using it, but in terms of practicality combined with force, you can't beat a knife.

Then again, there is a strong argument for using a belt as a Kusari Fundo. And that is VERY practical.

Just my $0.02.

S

[Shaderon]

We don't train with weapons but one I find easiest to get my hands on, extremely useful and versitile and disposible is the common ball point pen. Great for pushing into the soft parts of the head and body (just try pushing it horizontally under the nose or into the v of the throat) and great for jabbing into hands, plus the added benefit that it's only a pen if you are caught with it! I carry one in my coat pocket most of the time, have one within easy reach in my car and there's often one lying around in various places.

[kidswarrior]

The combat cane first and foremost. It's legal, and can block, strike, tie up, throw/sweep, dislocate, use stabbing motion, hook, pin to the ground while waiting for help or the police.

Second, two kubotans (I have lots of keys :)). In the brand of kung fu san soo I learned we used a lot of hammerfists. Translates perfectly to this weapon: grip a kubotan in each fist, leaving a 1 1/2 inch protrusion beyond the fist, and you've got some serious two-handed fire power that will bruise deep tissue, break bones, decommission joints, and rupture vital organs.

Both weapons are good against multiple, unarmed opponents. The cane is obviously better against any bladed weapon, or stick.

[MaartenSFS]

I've heard a lot of weapons mentioned here and decided to put in my two cents. ;)

Pens/kubotans/et cetera - Range too limiting. If they've got a knife, you're ****ed. But quite obscure and it is perfectly feasible to carry a pen.

Canes - Great weapon, but inconvenient to carry and impossible to conceal.

Guns/knives - Leaves very little room for control. I do not advocate them. Even though The Dollars Trillogy romantisises gun use. ;)

Telescopic steel baton - Perfect in every way unless you are assaulted by aliens or an entire country's armed force.

Sjambok - A good non-lethal deterrent. Extremely ****ing painful.

Staves/Spears/Swords - In the modern world... Impossible to carry concealed, can get messy, difficult to use in tight spaces, even more difficult to explain = forget it.

[TrainHardFightEasy]

Escrima stick all the way. You can be very affective withouth having to be lethal or even overly vicious.

Telescopic batons are cool but I'm not a huge fan of the fact you have to actually extend them and make them ready to go. Cuts down your response time.

And if your feeling thugish a baseball bat mighjt suit ya.... No real technique required lol

[TrainHardFightEasy]

Also yeah, I agree with MaaartenSJS. Stuff like pens, chopsticks, forks etc can be nasty. Ninjitsu like deception and trickery.

[Adept]

Unfortunately for those of us in Australia (and perhaps other parts of the world) our weapons options are strictly limited. Kubotans (that can be identified as such), knives, extendable batons, tasers and pepper spray are all prohibited weapons. Guns are right out.

My personal favourites are torches. Something like this. (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/1132/sesent/00)

[MaartenSFS]

Telescopic batons are cool but I'm not a huge fan of the fact you have to actually extend them and make them ready to go. Cuts down your response time.

Not if you know how to strike on the draw. ;) In that case it is actually faster and more surprising. A steel baton is basically a metal arnis stick, anyways (Depending on the size).

[MaartenSFS]

Unfortunately for those of us in Australia (and perhaps other parts of the world) our weapons options are strictly limited. Kubotans (that can be identified as such), knives, extendable batons, tasers and pepper spray are all prohibited weapons. Guns are right out.

That doesn't stop criminals from carrying and using them on you. Choosing to carry and/or use is a personal choice you yourself make, because despite what any laws may dictate to you it is your life or your loved ones' lives that are at stake. I have made my decision - your turn. ;)

[MaartenSFS]

Also yeah, I agree with MaaartenSJS. Stuff like pens, chopsticks, forks etc can be nasty. Ninjitsu like deception and trickery.

I don't recall saying that. Don't put my name and Ninja together, please. Because, quite frankly, I'm not that cool.

[Adept]

That doesn't stop criminals from carrying and using them on you. Choosing to carry and/or use is a personal choice you yourself make, because despite what any laws may dictate to you it is your life or your loved ones' lives that are at stake. I have made my decision - your turn. ;)

If I were to use a knife on someone in a self defense situation, I would be going to jail.

How does that help anyone?

[TrainHardFightEasy]

If I were to use a knife on someone in a self defense situation, I would be going to jail.

How does that help anyone?

Very true. Realistically you'd just have to be under some sort of extremely serious threat I guess. I guess anything counts in those sort of situations though.

[qi-tah]

Unrealistic in a SD situation? My Deer Hook Knives. Love 'em... beautiful, balanced, reminds me to use both my hands for maximum coverage/distraction/effect.

A tad more realistic? My massive ball of keys on a chain. All you have to do is whirl it around really fast to make someone think twice. Or at closer quarters, my motorcycle helmet.

[Bill Sempf]

Kubotans (that can be identified as such), knives, extendable batons, tasers and pepper spray are all prohibited weapons.

Can't carry a knife or pepperspray, huh? Must be easy pickings for run-of-the mill crooks over there.

I remember last I was in Sydney, someone had been tomahawked to death about 6 blocks from my hotel. Wonder if they are illegal too.

S

[Xue Sheng]

My preferred weapon - be aware of my surroundings, if that fails, run away and or talk my way out, if that fails, I do not prefer using what follows.

[MaartenSFS]

If I were to use a knife on someone in a self defense situation, I would be going to jail.

How does that help anyone?

Like I said, you have control over when and if you use what you carry, but at least you've got it with you when you need it. If someone starts wildly slashing a knife at you or five people decide to kick your arse and you haven't got something, you're going to be in a world of hurt and, if you survive, you'll be unrecognisable.

There are three things you can do with a weapon.

1) Not use it, if you think that you can handle the situation. But it will make you more confident if you know that when the **** hits the fan you've still got a back-up plan.
2) Show it - intimidation. Any long shiny objects emerging into the night are sure to deter criminals.
3) Use it. Better them, than you.

[kidswarrior]

My preferred weapon - be aware of my surroundings, if that fails, run away and or talk my way out, if that fails, I do not prefer using what follows.

XS, this raises a question I hadn't thought about before. I know you're specifically a CMA guy, and mostly internal arts plus Sanda (hope I have this right?). Do you/have you spent time training weapons to any extent? Your last phrase in your post leads me to believe the empty hand techniques you've trained could easily be fatal, if used full out. Is that what you'd resort to? Just curious, since I've trained two primary arts, Kempo and Kung Fu San Soo. The former trained no weapons, the latter did (although it's not what you'd call a really 'traditional' art). However, even KFSS didn't really rely on the weapons for fighting (forms only)--more body movement, some CMA tradition, and to quicken the empty hand forms.

Just wondered about your experience and perspective.

[MaartenSFS]

I think his meaning was that fighting is a last resort, to which I agree.

Your physical demeanor and psychology are an integral, oft-neglected, part of MA. I have only been in several fights since my school days, even though I was often in dangerous situations, because I go from point A to point B, eyes forward, chest straight, and anyone that is considering whether or not to try anything can see that I will destroy whatever comes in between me and point B. In developing countries people often try to harrass and haggle you. When I walk down the street I can see them start to aproach and open their mouth to speak, just before they bail out on that notion, press the abort button, and halt in their tracks. It's all about attitude.

BUT... If you and your loved one are taking a stroll and you are confronted by numerous armed assailants, hand to hand combat may not always work. It's better to comply and give them what they want, assuming that it's money or some other valuables. But what if they aren't in the game for money? What if they just want to torment a happy young couple? What are you going to do with your hands and feet against knives or other weapons? In CMA there were 19 disciplines of combat. Sanda (Unarmed combat) was dead last on that list for a reason.

Don't kid yourself into believing that on a dark, cold, rainy night, perhaps after you have just finished a long day of work, perhaps ill - because that is when you are most likely to be targeted - your unarmed combat skills will work in such a situation. Tournaments like UFC are hardly realistic. True, they offer a way to train fight psychology and improve condition, but your opponent isn't trying to kill your loved ones, both fighters are paired up fairly, and there is a complete absence of battlefield conditions. In a real situation the odds will be against you - always. Weapons are great equalisers. The longer the range, the better. I my rantings could be of some use. ;)

[Xue Sheng]

I think his meaning was that fighting is a last resort, to which I agree.

That is what I meant.


XS, this raises a question I hadn't thought about before. I know you're specifically a CMA guy, and mostly internal arts plus Sanda (hope I have this right?). Do you/have you spent time training weapons to any extent? Your last phrase in your post leads me to believe the empty hand techniques you've trained could easily be fatal, if used full out. Is that what you'd resort to? Just curious, since I've trained two primary arts, Kempo and Kung Fu San Soo. The former trained no weapons, the latter did (although it's not what you'd call a really 'traditional' art). However, even KFSS didn't really rely on the weapons for fighting (forms only)--more body movement, some CMA tradition, and to quicken the empty hand forms.

Just wondered about your experience and perspective.

I have some weapons training, however it is mostly form, Jain and Dao Forms nothing I would want to use to defend myself with. The only weapons training I have that I could possibly use in self defense is staff, but I have not trained staff in years and it is kind of hard to walk around with a 5 or 6 foot or longer white wax staff and go unnoticed. It is a part of my training that I look to improve upon at some point. And the extendable Baton Maarten suggested in another post is a possibility.

Also I have some minor training from a friend of mine that was an LEO in using everyday objects as weapons if necessary. Keys are a great weapon by the way however I do not think I would like to go up against a machete with only keys. A tightly rolled up magazine works as well and the oft neglected HOT cup of coffee may be just enough to distract the attacker so you can gain advantage. But these of course are last resort things.

As to being deadly, any move anyone does can be deadly. Hit a guy right or when he is off balance, he falls down and hits his head and dies, it is deadly.

Sanda does not train with weapons but it does train to fight against weapons. Taiji has weapons forms but nothing I would want to depend on in a fight. Xingyi also has weapons forms and the staff form I learned from that (about 5 feet long) I would use if need be and I happened to come across a 5 foot long pole at the time. Shaolin Long fist, also a staff form that would likely work as well, but again there would need to be a 6 foot pole around.

I use to work in a hospital as security that had a very busy emergency room with a mental health and detox unit and I had WAY too many physical confrontations to want to get in anymore. And the only thing that could be called a weapon would be the stainless steel bucket someone threw at my head, the chair a guy was swinging and, in my opinion, the bloody mess of a heroin addict I had to takedown. I also worked security for the state in which I live and I have had way to many confrontations outside in the dark on the street to really want to get into that anymore either if I do not have to. Luckily all of these were handled by my attitude and size and no physical altercation occurred. Its just plain no fun to deal with.


Your physical demeanor and psychology are an integral, oft-neglected, part of MA. I have only been in several fights since my school days, even though I was often in dangerous situations, because I go from point A to point B, eyes forward, chest straight, and anyone that is considering whether or not to try anything can see that I will destroy whatever comes in between me and point B. In developing countries people often try to harrass and haggle you. When I walk down the street I can see them start to aproach and open their mouth to speak, just before they bail out on that notion, press the abort button, and halt in their tracks. It's all about attitude.

BUT... If you and your loved one are taking a stroll and you are confronted by numerous armed assailants, hand to hand combat may not always work. It's better to comply and give them what they want, assuming that it's money or some other valuables. But what if they aren't in the game for money? What if they just want to torment a happy young couple? What are you going to do with your hands and feet against knives or other weapons? In CMA there were 19 disciplines of combat. Sanda (Unarmed combat) was dead last on that list for a reason.

I agree with this


Don't kid yourself into believing that on a dark, cold, rainy night, perhaps after you have just finished a long day of work, perhaps ill - because that is when you are most likely to be targeted - your unarmed combat skills will work in such a situation. Tournaments like UFC are hardly realistic. True, they offer a way to train fight psychology and improve condition, but your opponent isn't trying to kill your loved ones, both fighters are paired up fairly, and there is a complete absence of battlefield conditions. In a real situation the odds will be against you - always. Weapons are great equalisers. The longer the range, the better. I my rantings could be of some use.

Actually it is this is what is getting me interested in Systema. The use of weapons in training and the idea that a fight can occur just about anywhere on any terrain or in any weather and they do not always occur when you are physically prepared and can be multiple attackers.

[CityChicken]

1) my body: hands, feet, knees, elbows leveraged with tang soo do
2) Springfield XD subcompact 9mm
3) Colombia River 4'' folding tanto blade, m-16 model
4) Winchester 1300 12 gauge

[Sukerkin]

<snip some excellent thought provoking comments>

In CMA there were 19 disciplines of combat. Sanda (Unarmed combat) was dead last on that list for a reason.

<snip other good insights>

In a real situation the odds will be against you - always. Weapons are great equalisers. The longer the range, the better. I my rantings could be of some use. ;)

I have to say that this strikes to the core (yeah, MA pun attack!) of the question of whether your empty-handed arts are 'effective' or not.

Many thanks to Maarten for voicing it and I have to concur (from a Japanese perspective) that unarmed combat versus armed opponents was never viewed as anything other than a last resort ... unless that is that you are much superior to those that threaten you (and how do you tell that beforehand?).

I've faced improvised weapons (broken bottle) and survived to tell the tale but that was only because those who assaulted me underestimated their prey (this was long ago and not many had really absorbed the 'existence' of martial arts outside of films).

If I'd had any choice at all I would not have experienced that situation.

But I didn't have a choice, so, in the final analysis, as a bit of a counter-point, it is better to have your empty-hand training in such extremis than to be totally helpless. It's a roll of the dice but any chance is better than none.

[tellner]

Preferred weapon for what, to what end and under what conditions?

The best air conditioner in the world makes a lousy screwdriver.

There are times when a grenade, a '57 Chevy, a rifle or a sap is the most best tool for the job.

[MaartenSFS]

I have to say that this strikes to the core (yeah, MA pun attack!) of the question of whether your empty-handed arts are 'effective' or not.

Many thanks to Maarten for voicing it and I have to concur (from a Japanese perspective) that unarmed combat versus armed opponents was never viewed as anything other than a last resort ... unless that is that you are much superior to those that threaten you (and how do you tell that beforehand?).

I've faced improvised weapons (broken bottle) and survived to tell the tale but that was only because those who assaulted me underestimated their prey (this was long ago and not many had really absorbed the 'existence' of martial arts outside of films).

If I'd had any choice at all I would not have experienced that situation.

But I didn't have a choice, so, in the final analysis, as a bit of a counter-point, it is better to have your empty-hand training in such extremis than to be totally helpless. It's a roll of the dice but any chance is better than none.

You're welcome and I agree with you. The warriors of olde strove to perfect every aspect of combat, including hand to hand, through trial and error on the battlefield. Nowadays, it is more difficult to simulate this - hence the stagnation of MA.

[Em MacIntosh]

I gotta go with the chucks. They're cool. Kali sticks are my next favorite. I'm assuming light saber and plasma cannon don't count.

[MaartenSFS]

I gotta go with the chucks. They're cool. Kali sticks are my next favorite. I'm assuming light saber and plasma cannon don't count.

I really hope that you are not serious...

[Callandor]

Escrima sticks, of course. The range is right without being overly bulky; Justifiable in the courts of justice; If you are trained in it but don't have it with you, lots of things could substitute like a halved(?) billiard stick (what do you call that?), a leg of a wooden chair, brooms, mops, whatever; and versatile - you could use it for joint locking.
If only I could do a Go Hadouken....

[Hand Sword]

A serrated tanto point knife.

[Em MacIntosh]

I really hope that you are not serious...

Something wrong with the chucks?

[MaartenSFS]

Besides the fact that they are absolutely useless for combat, no..

[bluemtn]

Escrima sticks, of course. The range is right without being overly bulky; Justifiable in the courts of justice; If you are trained in it but don't have it with you, lots of things could substitute like a halved(?) billiard stick (what do you call that?), a leg of a wooden chair, brooms, mops, whatever; and versatile - you could use it for joint locking.


I also like the sticks too. One I've never really thought of, and a lot less likely that you'd get stabbed with your own knife (assuming one doesn't have experience with one).

[kidswarrior]

Something wrong with the chucks?

Also a felony to possess in California (other than licensed MA studio)--can't even get them shipped here by mail order.

[Em MacIntosh]

Besides the fact that they are absolutely useless for combat, no..

1500lbs/"2 (pounds per square inch) at the tip vs. 8lbs to break the skull. Rest assured they are quite effective. What would you say of the mace and chain?

[Em MacIntosh]

I meant escrima sticks too not kali sticks. Sorry.

[tellner]

I meant escrima sticks too not kali sticks. Sorry.

Oorg?
*scratches head*

What's the difference?

[Em MacIntosh]

Never mind. Just gimme a pair of nunchaku.

[Sukerkin]

I'm not sure I agree on the nunchaku selection, Em but each to their own. They surely do have the cachet of cool from their famous Enter the Dragon outing. From my own experience tho', I found them more of a danger to me than anyone else :O.

All I can recount to you is an experiment done years ago by a pair of sensei of my aquaintence (Sensei Lovat (my iaido teacher) and Sensei Shaw (or Sensei Yoda as my missus used to call him with great affection)).

They 'played' with combat of bokken versus nunchaku, yari vs nunchaku and tanto vs nunchaku (this done whilst wearing kendo armour to avoid unnecessary hospital visits :D). The one thing that they both emphasised is that the 'quick' strikes of the nunchaku were certainly fast enough to get in and possibly distract/hurt an opponent but that the lack of control from any rebound meant that your first shot had better count. The more powerful strikes exacerbated the problem and introduced an element of predicatability that made avoidence or deflection much easier. In defence, it was the conclusion that if you were facing a sword you were better off trying to dodge than use the nunchaku defences. Against a 'knife' they fared better but still not great as in that case the knife had the greater speed/agility.

Still, when all is said and done, the thread is about personal preferences in weapons, not a discourse on which is 'best'. So, after all that, your pick is just as valid as anyone else's :tup:.

[Xue Sheng]

Never mind. Just gimme a pair of nunchaku.


My jujitsu Sensei absolutly loved nunchaku.... he could take them away from just about anybody

[Steel Tiger]

1500lbs/"2 (pounds per square inch) at the tip vs. 8lbs to break the skull. Rest assured they are quite effective. What would you say of the mace and chain?

I'd say its a damn good way to test that 8lb skull breaking limit on yourself.

The return on flexible weapons, be it a flail, nunchaku, or the disturbing arumi from India, is not worth it. Its a lot of work to get the same results as a solid stick. That is, a broken skull.

[kidswarrior]

I'd say its a damn good way to test that 8lb skull breaking limit on yourself. Yes, have done this many times when I trained with them. Could account for my state of mind. :erg:


Its a lot of work to get the same results as a solid stick. That is, a broken skull. I found it quite easy to get a broken skull--on myself. :lfao:


My jujitsu Sensei absolutly loved nunchaku.... he could take them away from just about anybody :highfive:

[MaartenSFS]

I have heard two good origins of the Shuangjiegun (nunchaku). One is that the Mongolians invented it and their cavalry used it to hit people as they were passing by (This sounds the most feasable).

The other is that they were inspired by farming tools, developed by the Okinawans, and used for joint-locking. Anthing else is complete ********. And just try "locking" someone with a pair. Though I have seen one move that seems quite effective on a paralysed person, I don't think that that was its intended use and if it was, it wasn't a good one. They are great for self-induced migraines, though. ;)

[tellner]

Flexible weapons can be tricky, but they can also be extremely effective.

Consider the slungshot or its variations known as "life preservers" in earlier days. The blackjack and its larger cousin the WWI German trench mace were terrifying weapons. Or ask any of the police officers here about how useless a dog collar with two padlocks, a bandana with a big socket tied into it or a long chain with a bunch of keys on the end is. They're all serious deadly weapons.

The urumi takes a lot of training, and it has to be what the hoplophobes were really talking about when they said "43 times more likely to kill you than the bad guy". But those who know how to use it can turn everything within ten feet into hash.

[MaartenSFS]

Flexible weapons can be tricky, but they can also be extremely effective.

Consider the slungshot or its variations known as "life preservers" in earlier days. The blackjack and its larger cousin the WWI German trench mace were terrifying weapons. Or ask any of the police officers here about how useless a dog collar with two padlocks, a bandana with a big socket tied into it or a long chain with a bunch of keys on the end is. They're all serious deadly weapons.

The urumi takes a lot of training, and it has to be what the hoplophobes were really talking about when they said "43 times more likely to kill you than the bad guy". But those who know how to use it can turn everything within ten feet into hash.

Fair enough, but the extremely long amount of time it takes to reach the proficiency required to not take your own life is a waste, when any idiot can pick up a knife or gun, and use it almost instinctually (With notable exceptions - I.E. Can't use the knife/gun in their purse).

[Em MacIntosh]

You have to actually train in them and use some sense. Practice hitting something and controlling the deflection. I wasn't talking about movie jitsu either. I find there are few practical strikes but they are practical. From the sound of it many of you might not have bothered to learn to use the chucks EFFECTIVELY. If you don't like the staff and don't train in it, you probably won't be very good at it. I also find them to be somewhat deceptive.

[Em MacIntosh]

Also, if any idiot can pick up a gun, why do we train? Just countering the PERCEIVED "run away, de-escalate" remark with another. How long do you have to train to be good enough not to kill yourself?

[MaartenSFS]

My meaning was drop the 'chakus and train in something that doesn't leave your life in the hands of chance, because, even if you don't kill yourself with it, after the first strike the recovery time is so slow that you'll literally be stabbed/shot ten times before you can strike again with any accuracy at all. Why not pick up one or two sticks instead, or put the halves together like a stick, or just throw it and run? =D

I don't like guns and knives, but at least those two can be effectively used in a dangerous situation by a person that is able to use them. I'll stick with my telescopic baton, though.

[Xue Sheng]

I use to train the triple section staff and although it was a rather cool weapon to play with I would never have chosen that in a fight as my weapon of choice.

I also knew a guy that trained triple section for many years and if anyone could have used it effectively in a fight I would guess it would likely have been him. However at a demo he messed up, just once and it only took about a ½ a second. One little wrong movement and BANG one of the staffs caught him in the back of the head. To quote him

“I have no idea what happened, one second I was doing fine and the next I was laying face down in the grass."

I also use to train nunchaku but the learning curve was a bit high for gaining proficiency in my opinion. Another weapon that I am sure there are people that can use it effectively (I am not one of them) but one small mistake and you may just be helping your attacker more than you want.

[LawDog]

A weighted bandana I have seen, alot of damage it caused.

[Em MacIntosh]

Any time you make a mistake with anything, chances are you have a split second recovery time. Ever whip a towel at someone? That's how I use the chucks. There is no more time spent returning it to it's set position than, say, escrima sticks, maybe less because of the return momentum. Chucks will teach you very quickly not to hit yourself. It's all just a matter of opinion (sorry for the cliche, but I feel it needs to be stated), what works for me might just not work for you. That learning curve you speak of happens to me too with other weapons. The most important thing I think of with the chucks is to get in and out fast, with control (the idea is not to get them taken away). I keep my distance if possible otherwise it's a grappling weapon. Nunchaku require control like any other weapon, except that it's a flail so the method of control is different. Don't mean to come on too strong but you can't disprove something on opinion, as someone will have an opposite view. I would never say it's the best melee weapon, just that it's my favorite (and my best as it's what I train in). Anyway, they are good for more than show. If you don't agree, that's the best part of being human. Thank you guys for your opinions though and I'm sorry if I missunderstood anyone or have been missunderstood. Just hate seeing something I'm passionate about shot down and tend to defend something that means a lot to me.

[Xue Sheng]

Any time you make a mistake with anything, chances are you have a split second recovery time. Ever whip a towel at someone? That's how I use the chucks. There is no more time spent returning it to it's set position than, say, escrima sticks, maybe less because of the return momentum. Chucks will teach you very quickly not to hit yourself. It's all just a matter of opinion (sorry for the cliche, but I feel it needs to be stated), what works for me might just not work for you. That learning curve you speak of happens to me too with other weapons. The most important thing I think of with the chucks is to get in and out fast, with control (the idea is not to get them taken away). I keep my distance if possible otherwise it's a grappling weapon. Nunchaku require control like any other weapon, except that it's a flail so the method of control is different. Don't mean to come on too strong but you can't disprove something on opinion, as someone will have an opposite view. I would never say it's the best melee weapon, just that it's my favorite (and my best as it's what I train in). Anyway, they are good for more than show. If you don't agree, that's the best part of being human. Thank you guys for your opinions though and I'm sorry if I missunderstood anyone or have been missunderstood. Just hate seeing something I'm passionate about shot down and tend to defend something that means a lot to me.

No offense intended. This is why I said

I am sure there are people that can use it effectively (I am not one of them) :asian:

[kidswarrior]

Nunchaku require control like any other weapon, except that it's a flail so the method of control is different. Don't mean to come on too strong but you can't disprove something on opinion, as someone will have an opposite view. I would never say it's the best melee weapon, just that it's my favorite (and my best as it's what I train in). Anyway, they are good for more than show. If you don't agree, that's the best part of being human. Thank you guys for your opinions though and I'm sorry if I missunderstood anyone or have been missunderstood. Just hate seeing something I'm passionate about shot down and tend to defend something that means a lot to me.

You gotta express what you're passionate about. And even if the whole world disagrees, at least by doing so we keep our integrity intact. I know I've been taken to task, yes right here on the Friendly Forum (shocking! :eek:) for some particular view, or technique or other, which the majority considered 'unrealisitic' or promised 'wouldn't work'. Yet I've worked it/them over and over, so who's right? The most opinionated or well-read responder (read: loudest voice)? No. As you said, just different experiences. And as Sukerkin said, this is an opinion thread, so no wrong answers.

So I respect you for your stance, though I respectfuly disagree with your choice :), and wish you continued success with the 'Chucks'. :asian:

[Em MacIntosh]

Xue, there are things unsaid that are assumed and I took what you said into consideration. I wasn't really commenting on what you said, I was more concerned with a few other posts I saw.
Kidswarrior, cheers. I've said it in another post that if I can prove to myself that it's effective, I shouldn't be so concerned with what other people think. I just felt a couple people pushed my buttons with a "doesn't work. period" kind of remark (MY perception, as always). I also train with the escrima sticks and agree thay are effective, but I'm still better with the chucks.

Now that I have made my stance on the chucks clear, I don't plan on debating with the sceptics about specifics. They are fully correct to be sceptical. I just wanted to make my point clear. Thanks again guys.

[MaartenSFS]

I forgot to mention steel war fans... Great for slaying attackers AND for decreasing body temperature. And mine has a beautiful 双龙 (Shuanglong - Double dragon) and the characters 功夫 written on it. And it's black/shiny steel coloured, so if you opened it in the night it could be quite intimidating. ;) Though mine lacks blades..

[zDom]

I forgot to mention steel war fans... Great for slaying attackers AND for decreasing body temperature. And mine has a beautiful ?? (Shuanglong - Double dragon) and the characters ?? written on it. And it's black/shiny steel coloured, so if you opened it in the night it could be quite intimidating. ;) Though mine lacks blades..

And you carry that around with you while out and about? :uhoh:

[MaartenSFS]

Only in the summer..

[Em MacIntosh]

Eating my words on the chakus. I have a lovely shiner. Still ain't droppin them.

[kidswarrior]

Eating my words on the chakus. I have a lovely shiner. Still ain't droppin them.
Now I respect your choice even more. :ultracool Anyone can quit. But perseverance through pain--that's martial arts. :D

[Em MacIntosh]

No point rolling backward. Hurts are part of nunchuck training. They litterally beat the training into your skull. Every time I hit myself, I really don't want it to happen again. This must be combined with persistance. It's not the first time, nor is it the last. If you train with "rubbachucks" you don't learn not to hit yourself, you only learn the mechanics.