new blocking question

[cfr]

I posted a similar question a while back. However now Ive got some new info (to me anyways) and wanted some insight. I watched my first MT class tonite and Im considering signing up. Very impressive. The school link:

http://krurex.tripod.com/

Anyways Im confused as to the blocking that they use. They dont do any parrying/ redirecting at all. They simply keep their hands up touching their foreheads to block jabs/ crosses. And (for lack of better words) touch their ears to block hooks. My question is how does this work without gloves? Not that Im dying to find out. But my goal is self defense. Not fighting with gloves. So would this be effective blocking without gloves? Has anyone out there put it to the test? Im not a huge beleiver in the traditional hard style karate blocks (not trying to offend, just not for me) but I do have a liking for parrying/ redirecting. My experience is minimal so perhaps I need to just acquire a new mind-set? It just seems like it would be hard to see with my own hands in my face. Im especially curious to hear from people who have learned all the mentioned styles of blocking and their thoughts on the pros/ cons of this way of doing it. Also, they didnt slip/ weave/ duck as much as I was expecting the way boxers do. Again though, maybe its me having misperceptions of MT. Thanks to all.

[Master of Blades]

The thing about my style of Kali is that its all Parrying or attacking. There is no blocking. If someone throws a punch we will try and break the hand. Its as simple as this. It is all built around causing maximum damage. But everything else is parrying which is very good because is limits getting hurt but usually allows you to attack straight away :asian:

[chufeng]

CFR,

Watch the body action...
Do they catch the technique with their forearm and do a small body turn? If so, then that IS a parry.

I used to box (Western style boxing) and although it looks like you are just catching the punch on the arm...the body action that accompanies the "block" dissipates the force.

A good strategy, if you can pull it off and break the timing of the opponent...Since he's got one hand forward, he has left himself open somewhere...go for that opening, but go in a different timing than your opponent.

Good luck on your new adventure.

:asian:
chufeng

[cfr]

Originally posted by chufeng

CFR,

Watch the body action...
Do they catch the technique with their forearm and do a small body turn? If so, then that IS a parry.

I used to box (Western style boxing) and although it looks like you are just catching the punch on the arm...the body action that accompanies the "block" dissipates the force.


:asian:
chufeng


What do you think its effectiveness is compared to either a regulare karate style block or a regular parry? ( parry using the palm)

[muayThaiPerson]

dont get the impression of "theres no parrying" just because you've seen it one day. theres many parrying techniques....look at some instructional videos and all. the instructor does teach techniques, its up to the student to use them during sparring. if u sign up, i might be able to give u a MT VCD. i dont go to that gym but its very close by:asian:

[cfr]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

dont get the impression of "theres no parrying" just because you've seen it one day. theres many parrying techniques....look at some instructional videos and all. the instructor does teach techniques, its up to the student to use them during sparring. if u sign up, i might be able to give u a MT VCD. i dont go to that gym but its very close by:asian:


I could be incorrect about the parrying. But I did ask 2 students about there blocking and they both said it was just hands up. Whats a MT VCD. Where do you train???

[muayThaiPerson]

A MT VCD is a Muay Thai Video. VCD is just the format, just like dvd. i train in North Hollywood.

when u asked them about their "blocking", they will ofcourse say hands up because u asked them how they "blocked":asian:

[chufeng]

CFR,

You posted: "What do you think its effectiveness is compared to either a regulare karate style block or a regular parry? ( parry using the palm)"

If the intended attack doesn't ring your bell...you've been successful...it doesn't matter what it looks like.

:asian:
chufeng

[cfr]

Yes but how it looks isnt what Im interested in. From reading your profile it would appear that youve got alot more experience than me. So I was curious to its effectiveness compared to other ways of not getting hit which I would have to imagine youve praticed with your background.

[chufeng]

Truth is, I will stand in front of my opponent and LET him hit me to close the distance...

This is NOT orthodox and some think I'm crazy, but it works for me.

Prior to developing the ability to absorb punishment, I moved 45 degrees forward as an opponent attacked (I still do against a really strong opponent) and simply was NOT there when the attack arrived...

I've seen SKILLED MuayThai fighters do the same thing in a smaller space...if distance is broken, the attack has no force...so, it appears that they are standing in one spot; but, in reality, they are changing the distance and screwing up the attacker's focus.

Lots of hours in the ring and a good instructor will get you there.

BUT, beware the promoter who wants to push you into the "professional" ranks...that's where people get hurt OR have to compromise their values.

:asian:
chufeng

[KennethKu]

The best block is no block.

[muayThaiPerson]

the effectiveness in general is how experienced u are. every art is effective, how effective is artist-dependent. everyone will get hit in a fight, dont let that get u down. i saw a vid of my instrctr. fighting, he was laughin when he was fighting....he threw the other guy left right upside down like crazy many times. but he still got hit a few times, he didnt take a few milliseconds to contemplate the hit, he just fought on like nothing happened. a good tthing about MT is that if u are close to the opponent, there are knees and elbows. :asian:

[redfive]

People fight one way in the ring and another out of it.Its common for people, my self included, to cheat a little in the ring, or half ass a block for a better term. If you put your glove to the side of your head to block a hook or cross, your glove is absorbing the empact of the opponents glove. Glove on glove. Add a little body shifting and your good to go. With out the gloves you dont block a hook or cross like that. Put your hand in a fist and place it on side of your face and ask someone to punch you on your hand. Its not a block anymore, and you will bust your jaw with your own hand. In the ring with gloves, you can get away with it, and it works great. The movement is very short and your not over blocking or reaching. Most of my MT. friends fight this way and boxers do to. but out of the ring they do make more of an atempt to clear the punch or pass it. And then again I have two or three of my MT friends that just love to get hit and take pain and then they will beat the hell out of you. They love and thrive on punishment. The MT trait.

Your friend in the Combat Arts, Redfive

[MartialArtist]

Each type of blocking has its uses.

Blocking in the karate sense doesn't work against a boxer who throws punches unless you are super fast and super aware. However, the basics might work well on a grappler.

[muayThaiPerson]

in MT, blocking a hook is sort of like putting the hand behind your head and the elbowws extending forward. which is great for countering with an elbow right away. do that and your jaw will be VERY protected

[cfr]

I appreciate all your responses. Do you guys think its possible to get your own hand damaged while blocking the MT way? I would have to imagine that if my hands were in front of me, someone throws a cross, I cover with my fists, and they really nail the back of my fist, it may do serious damage to my hand? Whats your thoughts here? Sorry to be such a pain in the ass. I want to make a very informed decision before I sign up. Ive bounced around schools too much already and I want to stop doing that.

[Damian Mavis]

If we are talking gloveless street defence, blocking in any way HURTS period. If you join Muay Thai you won't be bothered by pain such as that in a street fight though I guarantee that. But I don't understand your concerns because a street fight lasts a very short time, unless you are going to be taking a ton of hits in the arms over a long period (like a round in the ring) the one or two bruises you get in a 10 second street fight from saving yourself from getting knocked out with your arms won't matter much to you when your standing over your opponents unconscious body.

I know you are tired of bouncing around but I would join for a year and then decide if it's something I want to stick with longer than that, which is exactly what I did. The only way it will all become clear to you is for you to actually do it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[muayThaiPerson]

Damain Mavis is right, no matter what block, there is still contact made. But dont focus on how much the opponent just hurt you, dont show anything. Just get the fight over as fast as possible. and dont expect sttreet fights to be like when you spar!! they will start swinging crazy!! dont back up but go forward blocking then when theres and oppurtunity, elbow or knee. but just try to end it with push kicks, when he bends down, you own it. if ur fast enough.


practice makes perfect, no matter what art.

[cfr]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

If we are talking gloveless street defence, blocking in any way HURTS period.



Please forgive my ignorance here. I am not concered with it hurting. Im concerned with me blocking as Ive described and my hand or wrist being shattered so I can no longer defend myself. Does this ever happen or am I just being a paranoid bonehead? (possible)

[Damian Mavis]

Hmmm I'm trying to think what I could say to alleviate your worry about that. I block full powered shin kicks to my head with my arms and it hurts but I still have functionality of my arms. Shin kicks are much stronger than any punch. It's always better to evade as blocking hurts but I learned that a long time ago in Tae Kwon Do let alone Muay Thai. I only block as an emergency defence or to stay within range so I can counter fast.

I've never heard of anyone getting a broken bone from blocking this way.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Master of Blades]

When free sparring in class or with my friends the only way to win is to make the other person submit. Because most of my friends are kickers and even on one occasion Biters :shrug: I find it hard to get close. The easiest thing for me to do is block but move in while doing it to form a counter etc. Sure its painful but its a lot less painful then just evading and getting hit until you end up on the floor. Thats my theory anyway....You gotta take pain to give pain. And god knows its built up my endurance to pain!

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by cfr

Please forgive my ignorance here. I am not concered with it hurting. Im concerned with me blocking as Ive described and my hand or wrist being shattered so I can no longer defend myself. Does this ever happen or am I just being a paranoid bonehead? (possible)

with the muay thai block(for a punch), is liek the one in boxing, you block w/the arm. as for kicks, in TKD, they use arms for low adn high kicks i belive. and in MT, we lift up the arm and the leg, which is very good because if they hit your knee, itll be over.

[muayThaiPerson]

Block a hook
http://shoto.com/pictures/articles/techniques/tech9/pic00016.jpg

[muayThaiPerson]

thats like one way of blocking, you can lift ur leg higher if u want

http://shoto.com/pictures/articles/techniques/tech4/pic00006.jpg

[cfr]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

with the muay thai block(for a punch), is liek the one in boxing, you block w/the arm. as for kicks, in TKD, they use arms for low adn high kicks i belive. and in MT, we lift up the arm and the leg, which is very good because if they hit your knee, itll be over.


My bad. I should have been more specific. Im worried about my wrist/ hand being shattered more from blocking a cross (hands in front of face) than from a hook. Im starting to realize though that its probably unlikely???

[Damian Mavis]

Yes that is exactly what I was referring to CFR. It hurts but won't shatter your wrist. Of course there are always freak accidents. I once saw a guy lightly block a kick with his forearm and his arm broke. Crazy stuff can happen for little to no reason sometimes.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[muayThaiPerson]

the cross and jab are blocked with the arms. here:
the hands dont have to be open like that, it can be closed to a fist

http://shoto.com/pictures/articles/techniques/tech10/pic00018.jpg

[cfr]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

the cross and jab are blocked with the arms. here:
the hands dont have to be open like that, it can be closed to a fist

http://shoto.com/pictures/articles/techniques/tech10/pic00018.jpg


What if the palms are inwards? So it is definately bone exposed.

[muayThaiPerson]

Then you should keep them out, and besides, no one will punch over you head. its not like people who you fight will try to aim for your hand:asian:

[cfr]

Have you ever blocked palms in? Ever done it without gloves. If so, any damage? Im perhaps being too worried here about it damaging my hand/ wrist. Im not someone who gets in lots of fights. I just dont want a false sense of security. I want to avoid finding out my way of blocking does me more damage than my attacker at the wrong time. I also dont want to be trained one way in class and try to do something else when it really counts. Thank you sooooo much for all your help and insight.

[muayThaiPerson]

yes i have blocked like that, but i dont just block and wait for the next move. i usually throw a push kick when they throw a jab/cross.

dont worry, the blocck is with the arms not the hands. and dont forget u have legs, because when u block, your stomach is somewat open, so lift ur knee up a bit.

lemme tell u that experience is everythign, dont rely on the methods of blocking 100%, over time, you will get faster and your techniques will improve. no matter what art u do, what i just said applies to all.

[Damian Mavis]

CFR, I think I told you like 4 different ways that blocking like that will NOT break your damn wrists omg! Gloves - no gloves, wrists in - wrists out - wrists sideways, you will not break! haha is it that you don't believe me?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[MartialArtist]

The people above are right...

No blocking is the best. You can do anything to dodge it, there are so many things you can do. Slip, weave, use footwork (sidestep, retreat, etc.), etc. and you can use them in combination (slip while sidestepping).

Remember, you have so many angles to move your feet. You have so many angles to move your body.

Parrying is the next best thing.

There is still contact made in a block. Sometimes, it hurts. If you use the wrong block at the wrong time, like using a fast block for less powerful attacks when the guy does a round kick will just break your arm. You can "cushion" with certain blocks to dissapate some power.

[cfr]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

CFR, I think I told you like 4 different ways that blocking like that will NOT break your damn wrists omg! Gloves - no gloves, wrists in - wrists out - wrists sideways, you will not break! haha is it that you don't believe me?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Damian, yes I beleive you. All was good in my mind till I saw the picture of the guy with his palms out. I didnt know if we were on the same page that whole time or not. I didnt know if during that whole conversation you were talking "out" while I was talking "in". Obviously Im making WAY to big of deal out of this. As I said before Im tired of bouncing from school to school. I want to stay put @ the next one for a while. I promise to not be such a pain in the ass in the future. Thanks for all your help and patience.:D

[Damian Mavis]

What happened at your other schools?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[cfr]

First 6 months were in a garage doing one on ones. He combined alot of different stuff. Loved it. Would have stayed with him forever but he moved. Next 6 months were Hapkido. Liked the style but it was a very plush, baby the students so they dont get hurt type of school. Next 3 months were Kenpo. Liked it, but forms are just not for me. No offense to the forms lovers out there. It seems as though there are 2 schools of thought on forms and they werent for me. Plus my foot was injured so it made it easier to leave.

[muayThaiPerson]

it doesnt soudn like u trained long enough. i think ur relying on the techniuques tooo much. its all the fighter.

[muayThaiPerson]

Martial Arts is better than No Martial Arts. shouldnt u be concerned about breaking your wrist because u dont know how to block??? instead of worrying about which way is the safest?

[Angus]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

it doesnt soudn like u trained long enough. i think ur relying on the techniuques tooo much. its all the fighter.

Didn't you say that you've only been training for 5-6 months? That's less than him.

I'm also of the don't block/eat the attack unless you have to. There are so many ways to go around the attack and still set yourself up for an attack that I'd much rather do that. I don't like the jab/cross block that MTP posted the picture for (the double pillar block) because a) he should've had his hands clinched, which shows he wears gloves a lot, and b) it's too slow to effectively counter with your hands after using that, so they'll either know legs or coming or will see the punch from a mile away. It's pretty rarely used outside of pure boxing.

[cfr]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

Martial Arts is better than No Martial Arts. shouldnt u be concerned about breaking your wrist because u dont know how to block??? instead of worrying about which way is the safest?


I personally feel its a pretty valid concern.

[cfr]

Originally posted by Angus

Didn't you say that you've only been training for 5-6 months? That's less than him.

I'm also of the don't block/eat the attack unless you have to. There are so many ways to go around the attack and still set yourself up for an attack that I'd much rather do that. I don't like the jab/cross block that MTP posted the picture for (the double pillar block) because a) he should've had his hands clinched, which shows he wears gloves a lot, and b) it's too slow to effectively counter with your hands after using that, so they'll either know legs or coming or will see the punch from a mile away. It's pretty rarely used outside of pure boxing.

I hate to ask this due to driving everyone nuts:rolleyes: , but would that go for palms in as well? If so, what type of blocking for jab/ cross do you prefer?

[muayThaiPerson]

right, 6 months is all ive done but its better than bouncing around. bouncing around arts.....the techniques overlap.

cfr, i prefer my hands to be a fist with the palms not exposed. the knuckled facing upward, my backhand is facing to the sides(left/right)