University in CT offeres Bachelor's Degree in Martial Arts

[ArmorOfGod]

http://www.bridgeport.edu/pages/3868.asp

That is the link to the university's site. Is this good or bad?

They have a curriculum set up for the students, who have to obtain 120 credit hours in order to graduate. They can study Karate, Taekwondo, or Tai-Chi at the university. They also need 12 credit hours in either Korean, Japanese, or Mandarin Chinese languages.

AoG

[LuzRD]

i really dont know what to think based on that page. are they teaching history and tradition of martial arts? or are they teaching the actual arts? or both?
i can foresee some really confused people gloating that theyve "graduated" a martial art after 120 hours AND they can now speak Mandarin and they have the diploma to prove it. :roflmao:
i REALLY hope that im missing somthing there.

[Kacey]

Based on this statement
In-depth study of at least one of the martial arts (in 2005-06 Tae Kwon Do and Taiji are offered, with other disciplines to be added in the future) I would say students are studying the theory - not the physical... but with the picture included on the page, I'm really not at all sure. I did see that the BA in Martial Arts is listed under International Studies, but not in a specific area such as History or Philosophy. I wonder how hard it would be to get additional information?

[Carol]

Based on this statement I would say students are studying the theory - not the physical... but with the picture included on the page, I'm really not at all sure. I did see that the BA in Martial Arts is listed under International Studies, but not in a specific area such as History or Philosophy. I wonder how hard it would be to get additional information?

I would speculate that there is theory behind it. I was a music major and my school actually deliniated between a 4 year diploma in music and a fully matriculated B.Mus. The B.Mus had much more classical studies involved. But, that's typically not what you saw in the brochure, you saw all of us jamming on our instruments :D

I think like anything else in the arts field. Having a Bachelor's degree has advantages for many things, but it doesn't prove that a person is the right fit for a given situation. There are going to be people that feed their egos with the studies. There will also be naysayers that don't understand why a student isn't just going out there and "doing it" instead of earning an education.

I like the concept. I'm curious to see how they put it in to practice.

[jus_dann]

thanks but no thanks, i would pass on that one

[ArmorOfGod]

I read in another forum, that you are awarded a first degree black belt after 2 years, then a second degree after another two years, but I haven't been able to verify that yet.

Overall, I don't see the point of it. If one wants a career in martial arts, this wouldn't be necessary. Classes in sports medicine, nutrition, and small business would seem to be the main things you would focus on in college/tech school. The martial arts training itself would come from the martial arts school that you would train at.

AoG

[Steel Tiger]

I just had a look at the posted curriculum for Martial Arts Studies and there appears to be an actual physical training component. There are eight units in TKD or Taiji over eight semesters (one each semester). Students with previous experience will be tested and placed into the programme accordingly.

The curriculum has a lot of theory and philosophy and what appears to be current events or sociology. It looks alright except for the physical training component. There is no indication of what grade one might attain even though a grading is mentioned.

[charyuop]

I don't have the knowledge of US Colleges. Is 120 credit hours equal to 120 hours?
If so, how the heck you are supposed to learn Tai Chi in 120 hours? Except the fact that in Tai Chi there is no belt system, well Yang family just introduced it recently, but I doubt they are with that college, how are you supposed to become black belt in Tai Chi after barely 2 years????
I do Tai Chi and Aikido, maybe 2 of the Arts where it takes longer to become black belt, and I really don't see it possible to become black belt in 2 years unless you are a natural talent....and there is only 1 kung-fu hustle hee hee.

In my opinion what they face is a big part of theory about the Art and its history, maybe teaching them a couple of forms or kata and in the end give them what we call in Italy "Laura ad onorem".

[Shotgun Buddha]

What Im curious about, is since within the MA world there's such differing opinions of martial arts history, philopsophy, training methods etc, what was the criteria for deciding the course content?
I'd personally find it interesting to study objectively all of those elements of different styles and their approaches, however

1. Most styles/organisations have spent so much time muddying up their respective histories, that finding an objective history is near impossible.
2. You can't really do anything with it. Its more an area of personal interest, not really something you'd go to college for...

[Grenadier]

I don't have the knowledge of US Colleges. Is 120 credit hours equal to 120 hours?

No. At most colleges and universities, a credit hour is simply a measurement of how much a particular course counts towards the amount of credit hours you need to graduate.

Typically, a class that meets for 2.5 hours a week, will be worth 3 credit hours. Assuming that a semester is about 18 weeks long, you can figure that you would spend a total of 45-50 hours in the classroom for those 3 credit hours.

Lab classes count even less, where a lab class that meets for 3 hours a week will be worth about 1 credit hour.

Thus, you generally need around 35-45 classes to graduate, which would translate to about 120 credit hours. When all is said and done, that means you have spent around 2000 hours in the classroom.

Typically, undergraduate students take about 12-18 credit hours each semester, which translates to 4-6 classes. Graduate students take 12 credit hours each semester.

[terryl965]

I can hear it now I have a BA in Martial Arts so I can train you in the fighting arts, man what ever happened to real training to understand the art. This si bad for MA in my opinion

[Steel Tiger]

I don't have the knowledge of US Colleges. Is 120 credit hours equal to 120 hours?
If so, how the heck you are supposed to learn Tai Chi in 120 hours? Except the fact that in Tai Chi there is no belt system, well Yang family just introduced it recently, but I doubt they are with that college, how are you supposed to become black belt in Tai Chi after barely 2 years????
I do Tai Chi and Aikido, maybe 2 of the Arts where it takes longer to become black belt, and I really don't see it possible to become black belt in 2 years unless you are a natural talent....and there is only 1 kung-fu hustle hee hee.

In my opinion what they face is a big part of theory about the Art and its history, maybe teaching them a couple of forms or kata and in the end give them what we call in Italy "Laura ad onorem".

Even if they do know about the Yang Family grading system, it requires years of training to achieve recognised competence. More years than there are in this university course.

I can see the same problems that other can see. People with Bachelors degrees (I have nothing against bachelors degrees, I have one after all) claiming they can now teach martial arts after a few years. That having been said, a qualification like this would be a useful adjunct to training and experience. It could get rid of a lot of the problems associated with ambiguous qualifications.

[ArmorOfGod]

......and I really don't see it possible to become black belt in 2 years unless you are a natural talent....and there is only 1 kung-fu hustle hee hee.



Normally I would agree with this, but I not this time.
Think about your average training: one goes to martial arts classes two times a week at an hour and a half each time, for a total of 3 hours a week, and would get a black belt after four years (on average). At this university, you would go five times a week at two hours each day. Also, there would be a lot of required homework (to keep it an accredited class).
In this scenario, two years of that indepth training may equal a first degree black belt.

AoG

[charyuop]

Normally I would agree with this, but I not this time.
Think about your average training: one goes to martial arts classes two times a week at an hour and a half each time, for a total of 3 hours a week, and would get a black belt after four years (on average). At this university, you would go five times a week at two hours each day. Also, there would be a lot of required homework (to keep it an accredited class).
In this scenario, two years of that indepth training may equal a first degree black belt.

AoG

Maybe in TKD or Karate, but I don't think it would be possible in Arts like Tai Chi...but here someone with more experience in Internal Arts could give a better opinion and more reliable than mine.

[K' Evans]

Personally, I think this is an exciting development, as I think the martial arts should be studied more seriously, and in a more academic fashion. While this isn't the only way to study the subject, but for it to be mainstreamed and accepted in an academic institution can bring new potential knowledge into the education of martial arts.

But just like most things, mainstream-ing a complex and diverse subject like the martial arts can also be detrimental, if not carried out and sustained professionally. Since there are currently very few academic schools who teach martial arts (probably no more than 3 uni's), and this is really in its infancy, there is a lot of room for improvement. Criticism should be directed but also with a view of the context and the intention to improve the scenario.

While I don't think someone coming out with a degree in martial arts should proclaim him/herself to be a master, I do think such intensive studying for a few years, along with understanding the theory and history behind his/her primary art doesn't make the person a greenie either. I can imagine that if I were to undertake such an intensive schedule in my primary art, I could be a senior student or assistant instructor at the end of the degree, though I would never take a teacher's place.

[Steel Tiger]

Normally I would agree with this, but I not this time.
Think about your average training: one goes to martial arts classes two times a week at an hour and a half each time, for a total of 3 hours a week, and would get a black belt after four years (on average). At this university, you would go five times a week at two hours each day. Also, there would be a lot of required homework (to keep it an accredited class).
In this scenario, two years of that indepth training may equal a first degree black belt.

AoG

It would be good if the course offered training five days a week but I think it probably offers no more than three hours of training each week. Each semesters training course is only worth 3 credit hours which works out to be 2.5 to 3 hours each week. There are 8 semesters of about 18 weeks each so that works out to 430 or so training hours along with everything else going on in the course.

There is an old Chinese saying, "100 days for the hand, 1000 days for the spear, 10000 days for the sword." This was coined at a time when a student trained 6-8 hours a day, so that is about 600 to 800 hours. Interesting to compare the numbers.

[Carol]

It would be good if the course offered training five days a week but I think it probably offers no more than three hours of training each week. Each semesters training course is only worth 3 credit hours which works out to be 2.5 to 3 hours each week. There are 8 semesters of about 18 weeks each so that works out to 430 or so training hours along with everything else going on in the course.

There is an old Chinese saying, "100 days for the hand, 1000 days for the spear, 10000 days for the sword." This was coined at a time when a student trained 6-8 hours a day, so that is about 600 to 800 hours. Interesting to compare the numbers.

There is a lot more than in-class training, however. When I was working on my B.Mus, my private instruction was 1/2 hour per week my first year, but I typically spent 4-6 hours a day practicing my instrument or playing with, over and above my homework. We were fiercely competitive too...always jockeying with each other to see who could spend a longer time 'woodshedding' that day. ;)

Like any other college major, it is up to the student to network and keep contacts that will travel with him/her through their pursuits. It is also up to the student to make the most of what they learn and apply it.

Unlike many other majors, having an arts/fine arts degree doesn't automatically open doors...even if the education is from a top school. An arts major typically doesn't spend senior year at career fairs pressing the flesh with recruiters that want to hire them for their major, nor will they be targeted with outreach efforts by Fortune 1000 companies. Nor does it mean that one's education or pursuit of the arts stops with earning their BA. The student is only guaranteed piece of paper and a stack of bills. :D

What happens next, the student has to make for themselves. :)

[Steel Tiger]

There is a lot more than in-class training, however. When I was working on my B.Mus, my private instruction was 1/2 hour per week my first year, but I typically spent 4-6 hours a day practicing my instrument or playing with, over and above my homework. We were fiercely competitive too...always jockeying with each other to see who could spend a longer time 'woodshedding' that day. ;)

Like any other college major, it is up to the student to network and keep contacts that will travel with him/her through their pursuits. It is also up to the student to make the most of what they learn and apply it.

Unlike many other majors, having an arts/fine arts degree doesn't automatically open doors...even if the education is from a top school. An arts major typically doesn't spend senior year at career fairs pressing the flesh with recruiters that want to hire them for their major, nor will they be targeted with outreach efforts by Fortune 1000 companies. Nor does it mean that one's education or pursuit of the arts stops with earning their BA. The student is only guaranteed piece of paper and a stack of bills. :D

What happens next, the student has to make for themselves. :)

Poor old BA. So badly treated. I have a BA with honours in archaeology and I work as a public servant. Just goes to show doesn't it.

I actually think the big plus of this MA degree is all the other things the students would be studying. It unfortunate that a lot of students of the martial arts don't learn the history and philosophy that is associated with their art. This might be a way to gain such knowledge. Of course, there will always be that question, especially with history, is this right? What about so and so, where do they fit in?

[Carol]

Poor old BA. So badly treated. I have a BA with honours in archaeology and I work as a public servant. Just goes to show doesn't it.


At least folks recognize a BA. I once took a graduate school entrance exam and on the electronic app, I was asked to pick my undergrad degree from a dropdown box. I had to pick "other". B.Mus wasn't a choice on the list :rofl:

[wade]

Hmmmmm, OK, go with me cause this is going to be really slow. All these people talking about having college degrees in the MA's in order to teach makes me think maybe I should rethink my career. See, I only have a 10th grade education. I went to Viet Nam when I was 17, it's OK though, I was the only one at my senior prom recovering from wounds and it turned out pretty well. Anyway, if you need a college degree to teach where does that leave people like me? Should I be thinking about a different career, maybe in the fast food industry? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[Ronin Moose]

I was curious about their accreditation, so I emailed them to inquire. This is the response I received:

The university is accredited by the New England Association of Schools
and Colleges, and by the Board of Governors of the Connecticut Department of Higher Education. The latter also approves all our programs, so the department investigated and reviewed our plans for the bachelor's in martial arts and approved them.
If you are inquiring about the martial arts program, the contact is
Professor Mark K. Setton, (203) 576-4965 or marksetton@yahoo.com. He
can help you further.

Just thought I'd pass this on as part of the discussion.

-Garry

[wade]

Thanks, that does help me make a decision on where I want to go from here.

[Carol]

Hmmmmm, OK, go with me cause this is going to be really slow. All these people talking about having college degrees in the MA's in order to teach makes me think maybe I should rethink my career. See, I only have a 10th grade education. I went to Viet Nam when I was 17, it's OK though, I was the only one at my senior prom recovering from wounds and it turned out pretty well. Anyway, if you need a college degree to teach where does that leave people like me? Should I be thinking about a different career, maybe in the fast food industry? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

The logic isn't sound, Wade.

The degree program, based on what has been posted, does not indicate that one will be qualified to teach.

There is also no indication that because one school out of a gazillion offers a Martial Arts major that such a thing will result in a *need* for a Martial Arts degree in order to teach. :)

[charyuop]

Heeheeemmmm....Wade, between you and a school where the teacher came out of that college, no doubt I would pick you 100 times out of 100!!!
I got the feeling what they would offer it would just be another Mc Dojo.
And as per your fear, I don't think it is meant as a sole way to teach Martial Arts. Many Traditional schools would never accept to have to undergo that bachelor to teach what they have been teaching for centuries.

[Xue Sheng]

Surprisingly I think it is a good idea as a supplement to someone’s training but not a replacement for it. But I do not think it is necessary to have in order to teach. And if you are going here to make MA your career I still maintain that this should be offered with a minor in business.

However 4 years of Taiji does not a master make and I do not think after 4 years in this program you are qualified to teach any MA. It takes longer than that. If you have been training for a few years before and you plan on training for a few years after then sure you can teach and if you plan on taking that training to a different level after graduation, say going to China, Korea or Japan to continue it is a good thing to have an understanding of the language and culture. It makes it one whole heck of a lot easier to be able to speak the language of your Sifu and understand the culture from which he comes.

Hell if I where younger I would consider going and then move to Beijing to train for a few years.

[Steel Tiger]

Hmmmmm, OK, go with me cause this is going to be really slow. All these people talking about having college degrees in the MA's in order to teach makes me think maybe I should rethink my career. See, I only have a 10th grade education. I went to Viet Nam when I was 17, it's OK though, I was the only one at my senior prom recovering from wounds and it turned out pretty well. Anyway, if you need a college degree to teach where does that leave people like me? Should I be thinking about a different career, maybe in the fast food industry? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

[Ronin Moose]

If I was of a mind to just pick up and go to a college that offered a martial arts major or emphasis, I'd sure take a hard look at Radford University in Virginia. Their MA program is run by Dr. Jerry Beasley, who is pretty well known in his own rights, besides being partnered up with Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace. How could you beat that kind of training? They offer a one week camp in the summer for anyone who can pay and get there. The regular school year seems pretty status quo for a small college. Check them out at:

http://www.runet.edu/

Good Luck!

-Garry

[CuongNhuka]

hu, intresting. univeristy of bloomington offers martial arts classes for people in their biomechanics program. intresting....

[TraditionalTKD]

In this country, martial arts are considered by most practitioners and potential students as recreational activity or sport. The question becomes: Now that you've spent all this money for a martial arts degree, what exactly do you do with it? Do you really think most people in this country will appreciate it? If you are a legitimate Instructor who has taken the time to learn the finer points of your style, its history, philosophy, manners, etiquette etc., the fact that you have a MA degree is inconsequential. To most people anyway. Nice to have, but not really worth the cost-benefit analysis.
Kind of like a liberal arts degree. Nice to have, but impractical.

[TraditionalTKD]

And I'm curious to know about the people teaching this course. I've met several college-level TKD instructors who's credibility is, shall we say, questionable.
The article mentioned earning belts in kung fu. I was unaware that kung fu used belts. if they can't get that right, what makes you think anything else they teach is right?

[Cryozombie]

Overall, I don't see the point of it. If one wants a career in martial arts, this wouldn't be necessary. Classes in sports medicine, nutrition, and small business would seem to be the main things you would focus on in college/tech school

That would be my thoughts as well



The article mentioned earning belts in kung fu. I was unaware that kung fu used belts. if they can't get that right, what makes you think anything else they teach is right?

Some of the westernized Kung fu does. But its Kung fu in the sense that Karate is... well, ya know, kararte.

[Xue Sheng]

The article mentioned earning belts in kung fu. I was unaware that kung fu used belts. if they can't get that right, what makes you think anything else they teach is right?

Actually some legitimate Southern styles do offer rank by a belt AKA sash. However I have not seen a traditional Northern style that does.

But if they are offering a black belt in “kung fu” which is an incredibly generic term, much like saying I have a black belt in Japanese martial arts, you tell me if you think it is the real deal.

But then again it could also be Wushu which also has a ranking system.

[charyuop]

But if they are offering a black belt in “kung fu” which is an incredibly generic term, much like saying I have a black belt in Japanese martial arts, you tell me if you think it is the real deal.



Excellent point there.

[HKphooey]

This article appeared in the Hartford Courant this weeekend (our local paper in CT)...

http://www.courant.com/features/lifestyle/hc-martialartsu.artmar18,0,3091012.story?coll=hc-headlines-custom2

[Kacey]

That's very interesting... the one thing I can't figure out is the rainbow of tape stripes on the black belt - I mean, we use tape for intermediate gup ranks, but only one color at a time, and never in multiple colors on black belts. Overall, however, it looks like an interesting program, and I like what they said about the potential careers and being able to mix a major or minor in martial arts with other fields.