Ed Parker Jr. names his father's successor: GM Michael Pick !!!

[Carol]

From the William Chow Memorial Banquet...an snippet of Mr. Ed Parker Jr.'s speech as told by Mr. Sean Kelley:

"He went on to say how at the Chow memorial he was constantly being asked who his fathers Successor was and who fits the role of being a responsible person the seat of Ed Parker's Legacy? Edmund said it was clear that the Chow Lineage reminded him of how the Hawaiian
culture was wanting to know who the "Bull" was in the Parker family? Who was the pointed man all knew him by name and reputation? Who was the man who was there from the beginning to his very end? And who in the eyes of the remaining blood line did they believe would represent the name and the art Ed Parker created for the future successors to be guided by or counseled by?

As the tears came down his face for the Um-teen time as the memory of his parents never go away....and how many say this young 48 year old kind hearted man has no worth or opinion to account for....he calmy said in my eyes only one man has ever been by my fathers side,my side, our families side and has never left it.....that is Michael Robert Pick. He is my fathers successor, he is what my father represented, he is what Kenpo stands for."

:eek: :eek:

Holy Cow!

Congratulations to GM Pick! :asian:

Although I don't think the controversy will stop here...

[Ceicei]

You're right... the controversy won't stop there.

Mr. Pick is an excellent choice and the reasons stated sounds very solid to me. I value Mr. Parker Jr.'s opinion. His family has been through a lot....

- Ceicei

[bluemtn]

You're right... the controversy won't stop there.

Mr. Pick is an excellent choice and the reasons stated sounds very solid to me. I value Mr. Parker Jr.'s opinion. His family has been through a lot....

- Ceicei


Even though I'm not a Kenpoist, I have to agree. An excellent choice.

[Touch Of Death]

Mike Pick Rocks!
Sean

[IWishToLearn]

I don't think naming a successor at this point will mean a thing.

[terryl965]

I believe it is a great pic. but to be honest I do not believe it means much to those that are all ready to hold judgement

[Tames D]

I don't think naming a successor at this point will mean a thing.
Agreed.

[Touch Of Death]

I don't think naming a successor at this point will mean a thing.Not so, by naming a successor, you get the idea of the direction people, we have come to respect, want to take the art. If they are against it. That is saying somthing as well.
Sean

[MJS]

Not so, by naming a successor, you get the idea of the direction people, we have come to respect, want to take the art. If they are against it. That is saying somthing as well.
Sean

Well, its already causing quite a controversy. IMO, if Mr. Parker named someone prior to his death I think it may have been different. Although Mr. Pick was named by Ed Jr., looking at the KN, the flames are growing.

Like I always say...I'm just looking to train. I'm really not into politics.

[Flying Crane]

There is a similar thread going on over at Kenpotalk. Looks like Mr. Parker was not really naming a successor for his father. Rather, it was more his own opinion of who stuck with his father thru thick and thin from the early days on and such. Looks like Mr. Parker is pretty irritated by and fed up with the kenpo community at large and wishes everyone would go jump off a cliff. Can't say I blame him. I'd say, just let this go, don't fan the flames and leave the guy alone.

[MJS]

There is a similar thread going on over at Kenpotalk. Looks like Mr. Parker was not really naming a successor for his father. Rather, it was more his own opinion of who stuck with his father thru thick and thin from the early days on and such. Looks like Mr. Parker is pretty irritated by and fed up with the kenpo community at large and wishes everyone would go jump off a cliff. Can't say I blame him. I'd say, just let this go, don't fan the flames and leave the guy alone.

Yes, same thing over on KN. Ya know, it'd be nice to let the mans father rest in peace. Like I said, I can give a rats behind about the politics, I just want to train.

[Doc]

From the William Chow Memorial Banquet...an snippet of Mr. Ed Parker Jr.'s speech as told by Mr. Sean Kelley:

"He went on to say how at the Chow memorial he was constantly being asked who his fathers Successor was and who fits the role of being a responsible person the seat of Ed Parker's Legacy? Edmund said it was clear that the Chow Lineage reminded him of how the Hawaiian
culture was wanting to know who the "Bull" was in the Parker family? Who was the pointed man all knew him by name and reputation? Who was the man who was there from the beginning to his very end? And who in the eyes of the remaining blood line did they believe would represent the name and the art Ed Parker created for the future successors to be guided by or counseled by?

As the tears came down his face for the Um-teen time as the memory of his parents never go away....and how many say this young 48 year old kind hearted man has no worth or opinion to account for....he calmy said in my eyes only one man has ever been by my fathers side,my side, our families side and has never left it.....that is Michael Robert Pick. He is my fathers successor, he is what my father represented, he is what Kenpo stands for."

:eek: :eek:

Holy Cow!

Congratulations to GM Pick! :asian:

Although I don't think the controversy will stop here...

Look at the source. I've known Edmund literally all his life, and he would not even hint at naming a successor. Ultimately he'll speak out and correct what I'm sure is a misrepresentation of his words by those with an agenda of their own. Instead focus on Edmunds great artistic contributions to us all, and forget the politics that some will lay at his feet without his knowledge.

[Doc]

I don't think naming a successor at this point will mean a thing.

No it wouldn't, nor would Edmund do that. More likely he was being kind and saying nice things about to those who were in attendance. Who wouldn't? I can guarantee the word "successor" was NEVER used.

[Touch Of Death]

I went to read all the hoopla on the KN but its all gone. Curses!

[MJS]

I went to read all the hoopla on the KN but its all gone. Curses!

It was requested by Mr Parker Jr that the theads in question be deleated. Personally, I'm glad that they were removed. If someone wants to have a discussion as to whether or not a successor is good or bad, thats fine. Heck, we're having one right here. :) What makes it bad, is when it doesnt stay civil.

[Touch Of Death]

I intended to read them tonight when I saw them this morning but, shoulda coulda woulda. I'll start the debate over here, however. I feel Mr. Picks version of Kenpo would be perfect for a guy my size but I'm not so sure its the best bet for everyone. Thoughts?...
Sean

[MJS]

I intended to read them tonight when I saw them this morning but, shoulda coulda woulda. I'll start the debate over here, however. I feel Mr. Picks version of Kenpo would be perfect for a guy my size but I'm not so sure its the best bet for everyone. Thoughts?...
Sean

For those that don't know (like myself :) ) could you elaborate a little more on what his version is like?

[Touch Of Death]

For those that don't know (like myself :) ) could you elaborate a little more on what his version is like?Its sorta no retreat no surrender. I like the idea, but if I were to teach the art to a child, I'm not so sure a ten year old girl can dominate an adult male or have the mentality that that is the only option. I would want my daughter keeping a wide range between herself and danger. On the other hand, when push comes to shove, maybe she should try domination before submitting to the undesirable alternatives. Anywho, learning to defend yourself and learning to be a warrior can be two different things. I sense a narrowing of purpose.
Sean

[Carol]

Its sorta no retreat no surrender. I like the idea, but if I were to teach the art to a child, I'm not so sure a ten year old girl can dominate an adult male or have the mentality that that is the only option. I would want my daughter keeping a wide range between herself and danger. On the other hand, when push comes to shove, maybe she should try domination before submitting to the undesirable alternatives. Anywho, learning to defend yourself and learning to be a warrior can be two different things. I sense a narrowing of purpose.
Sean

He's also known for having a rigorous knife program. IIRC he begins blade training at yellow. GM Pick is a Vietnam vet, which has influenced his interest in bladesmanship.

[KenpoGunz]

So will there be any official public statement from Mr. Parker Jr. regarding this issue?

[Carol]

So will there be any official public statement from Mr. Parker Jr. regarding this issue?

Given what was said earlier in the thread it is highly doubtful. I think he largely wants folks to leave him be so he can focus on what he loves to do best.

[MJS]

So will there be any official public statement from Mr. Parker Jr. regarding this issue?

It seemed to me that he clarified a few misunderstandings over on KN, but as it was said, those posts are long gone.

[KenpoGunz]

I missed the posts over at KN. I'm asking only to avoid confusion for myself and figured an offical statement would be the most efficient way to go.

[Carol]

I missed the posts over at KN. I'm asking only to avoid confusion for myself and figured an offical statement would be the most efficient way to go.

Mr. Parker is a member of Martial Talk, and he logs on here from time to time.

If he wants to make a comment on it, he certain can do so. But personally, I'm inclined to leave him be. :)

[IWishToLearn]

No it wouldn't, nor would Edmund do that. More likely he was being kind and saying nice things about to those who were in attendance. Who wouldn't? I can guarantee the word "successor" was NEVER used.

I just feel with the fragmentation that was the IKKA after SGM Parker's passing and the subsequent organizational internal and external politicing (that started even before his passing) it'd be ludicrous to assume that a recognized successor (granting for the moment that someone DID in fact name one - which has never been done) would have any say in any way that would benefit the entire Kenpo community these days.

[MJS]

I just feel with the fragmentation that was the IKKA after SGM Parker's passing and the subsequent organizational internal and external politicing (that started even before his passing) it'd be ludicrous to assume that a recognized successor (granting for the moment that someone DID in fact name one - which has never been done) would have any say in any way that would benefit the entire Kenpo community these days.

It seems like everyone has pretty much gone their own way. I mean, everyone has their own organizations and is carrying on 'their' version of the art that Mr. Parker left to them. So, going on that, would it be possible for someone to reign everyone in, so to speak? Like I said, it may have been different if he named someone prior to his death, but that was not the case.

Mike

[bujuts]

Its sorta no retreat no surrender. I like the idea, but if I were to teach the art to a child, I'm not so sure a ten year old girl can dominate an adult male or have the mentality that that is the only option. I would want my daughter keeping a wide range between herself and danger. On the other hand, when push comes to shove, maybe she should try domination before submitting to the undesirable alternatives. Anywho, learning to defend yourself and learning to be a warrior can be two different things. I sense a narrowing of purpose.
Sean

That's not really accurate, if you don't mind my saying. Ownership of the spine is not something that is taught in all regards. Adults or children, the objective is to end the fight. The children are taught to "hurt to stop", not "hurt to hurt." Invading the mass is a sure fire way of accomplishing just that, yes, but the lessons of doing maximum damage via proper mechanics learned apply for all cases regardless of size disparity.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

[bujuts]

It was actually SGM Parker that started Mr. Pick on the blade. He just appeared to have pursued it more than others, and worked with the SGM to that affect.

Also, formal training with the blade does not begin until 3rd black or so - but that's third black in time duration and mastery of the basics as he teaches them, not stripes on the belt. We all get exposed to it at white, and in fact there are particular lessons of alignment I have taught using a blade on someone's first lesson. But to understand his knife work, you have to understand his empty handed kenpo. And that takes a long time, regardless of where you're coming from. So, the elements of the blade work are founded in the constructs in which he teaches and operates his kenpo, so to "learn a knife technique" one is missing the boat. The constructs used in his kenpo are principle-based and not used in other cirriculum's, including Ed Parker's. Those are what begin at white belt, and they must be absolutely sound (6-10 years, IMHO) in order to really bring the knife in battery effectively

Hope that clarifies.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

[ikenpo]

But to understand his knife work, you have to understand his empty handed kenpo....And that takes a long time, regardless of where you're coming from....The constructs used in his kenpo are principle-based and not used in other cirriculum's, including Ed Parker's. Those are what begin at white belt, and they must be absolutely sound (6-10 years, IMHO) .....

So how does a guy without those 6-10 years worth of "constructs" get promoted to 7th? It doesn't seem exactly fair to all of those that have been there for the long haul.....

[Doc]

So how does a guy without those 6-10 years worth of "constructs" get promoted to 7th? It doesn't seem exactly fair to all of those that have been there for the long haul.....

See, there you go. Can't wait to get back to Texas.

[JasonASmith]

I'm not a Kenpo guy, but I lurk around the Kenpo universe on a continuous basis(hey, there's only so much that you can find out about Shotokan!), so you Kenpo addicts/practitioners(seems to be a mutual thing) take this as you will...








DOC FOR PREZ!

[MJS]

There was mention in an earlier post about Mr. Picks style of Kenpo. Would someone be able to provide a more detailed description as to what his version of the art is like?:)

Mike

[jazkiljok]

Its sorta no retreat no surrender. I like the idea, but if I were to teach the art to a child, I'm not so sure a ten year old girl can dominate an adult male or have the mentality that that is the only option. I would want my daughter keeping a wide range between herself and danger. On the other hand, when push comes to shove, maybe she should try domination before submitting to the undesirable alternatives. Anywho, learning to defend yourself and learning to be a warrior can be two different things. I sense a narrowing of purpose.
Sean

no retreat no surrender is not a technique or method of execution. you can call it a philosophy perhaps-- and the no retreat part would certainly contradict the moral themes Ed Parker senior expoused-- retreating if possible always has been a good and wise option (regardless of your age, gender, size) --can't understand why anyone would not believe that still, even Mike Pick.

Kenpo as defined as a continuous multi-striking method targeting vital areas self-defense system is essentially a warrior system if you choose to call things such. It's not Aikido or Judo and doesn't teach anything like that. Guy grabs you, hit him in the throat is the response taught, then of course follow up by hitting him in the groin and don't forget to smash his face in for good measure.

All Mike Pick may be doing is calling a spade a spade. perhaps there are a few people who don't like hearing that kenpo has always been about beating the hell out of someone who was trying to do the same to you.
but be honest, where in the common versions of kenpo do you see anything else taught?

[Kenpojujitsu3]

So how does a guy without those 6-10 years worth of "constructs" get promoted to 7th? It doesn't seem exactly fair to all of those that have been there for the long haul.....

There goes the neighborhood.

[jazkiljok]

It was actually SGM Parker that started Mr. Pick on the blade. He just appeared to have pursued it more than others, and worked with the SGM to that affect.

Also, formal training with the blade does not begin until 3rd black or so - but that's third black in time duration and mastery of the basics as he teaches them, not stripes on the belt. We all get exposed to it at white, and in fact there are particular lessons of alignment I have taught using a blade on someone's first lesson. But to understand his knife work, you have to understand his empty handed kenpo. And that takes a long time, regardless of where you're coming from. So, the elements of the blade work are founded in the constructs in which he teaches and operates his kenpo, so to "learn a knife technique" one is missing the boat. The constructs used in his kenpo are principle-based and not used in other cirriculum's, including Ed Parker's. Those are what begin at white belt, and they must be absolutely sound (6-10 years, IMHO) in order to really bring the knife in battery effectively

Hope that clarifies.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

i've always found it odd that some one suggests that you don't pick up a blade or other weapon till you have had 10 years learning how to fight bare handed.

the history of weapons training for masters of defense and war has always been to put the tool in your hand and begin. if you want to learn how to fight with a knife-- spend those 10 years working with it as you learn to fight empty handed.

this is not saying that Mike Pick doesn't have good reason-- but it would appear that if his knife system is as you describe, that it's way too esoteric and restrictive to be practical to learn.

Mike Pick's own work with the military would contradict this philosophy anyway-- he's not waiting for them to become masters of kenpo before he teaches them how to effectively use and defend against a blade so why would he do that to his own kenpo students?

[Touch Of Death]

That's not really accurate, if you don't mind my saying. Ownership of the spine is not something that is taught in all regards. Adults or children, the objective is to end the fight. The children are taught to "hurt to stop", not "hurt to hurt." Invading the mass is a sure fire way of accomplishing just that, yes, but the lessons of doing maximum damage via proper mechanics learned apply for all cases regardless of size disparity.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKFYour right. Let me put it this way. Mr. Pick = set focused, Mr. Tatum = tech focus, Mr. Mills = principles of motion focus, Mr. Hancock = cycle of considerations focus. Polanzo = Family grouping Focus...
Sean

[amylong]

Ultimately he'll speak out and correct what I'm sure is a misrepresentation of his words by those with an agenda of their own.

Edmund did make the correction. I don't think it's fair to say that the miscommunication was from someone with a personal agenda.

Is there no room in your philosophy for someone to make an honest mistake? Assuming that others had an agenda speaks more to your own motivations than to those in question here.

I was there; I heard what was said.

The word successor wasn't used, but I could see how some people could've interpreted the situation that way. So, 'honest mistake' is certainly something that should be considered.

Back to the point of successors in general -- it's a little late. lol.

--Amy

[Kenpobuff]

I found it curious when the "S" word was spoken too. I appreciate the passion the poster on KN has for Kenpo and his instructor and the Parker family. I'm sorry it had to be misinterpreted and then put out there for us to discuss. A good discussion nonetheless. However, I think it is over done by now.

For my 2 cents, a successor that doesn't teach the original version doesn't seem to be a successor. Like TOD pointed out many of those close to Mr. Parker Sr. have focused their version of Kenpo on the many different aspects one can separate from the orignial. I think it would be very difficult to use the "S" word it a strict sense.

[bujuts]

So how does a guy without those 6-10 years worth of "constructs" get promoted to 7th? It doesn't seem exactly fair to all of those that have been there for the long haul.....

The UKF has no 7th degrees. There's promoting a long time student, and there's recognition. Two different animals. No different than Ed Parker having promoted many he did not teach.

Salute,

Steven Brown
UKF

[bujuts]

i've always found it odd that some one suggests that you don't pick up a blade or other weapon till you have had 10 years learning how to fight bare handed.

That's not the case, I said "formal training" with it, i.e. when its what you're s'posed to be working on. You will get alot of exposure through the years.


the history of weapons training for masters of defense and war has always been to put the tool in your hand and begin.

And such is the case with all military operatives who've been introduced to his knife stuff. The introductory stuff works extremely well.

Hope that clarifies. Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

[JamesB]

For my 2 cents, a successor that doesn't teach the original version doesn't seem to be a successor. Like TOD pointed out many of those close to Mr. Parker Sr. have focused their version of Kenpo on the many different aspects one can separate from the orignial. I think it would be very difficult to use the "S" word it a strict sense.

In my opinion a successor to Mr Parker would be somebody who continued to evolve his kenpo rather than cling to what they perceive as 'the original'

respectfully,

[jazkiljok]

That's not the case, I said "formal training" with it, i.e. when its what you're s'posed to be working on. You will get alot of exposure through the years.



And such is the case with all military operatives who've been introduced to his knife stuff. The introductory stuff works extremely well.

Hope that clarifies. Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

yes, it does. thank you.

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Edmund did make the correction. I don't think it's fair to say that the miscommunication was from someone with a personal agenda.

Is there no room in your philosophy for someone to make an honest mistake? Assuming that others had an agenda speaks more to your own motivations than to those in question here.

I was there; I heard what was said.

The word successor wasn't used, but I could see how some people could've interpreted the situation that way. So, 'honest mistake' is certainly something that should be considered.

Back to the point of successors in general -- it's a little late. lol.

--Amy

I hate to be blunt but an agenda could easily have been seen (It was my first thought when I read the KN post). The "Mike Pick is Mr. Parker's successor" train has been running for a long time and most recently by the person (ESPECIALLY on KN in seemingly every other post he mentions Mr. Pick when it's not even relevant to the thread topic) who made the "honest" mistake. Personal opinion...in this sense "successor" isn't a word you "accidently" add to what was actually said. But it's not terribly relevant. Like you said it's a little late and I'll add a little pointless.

[MJS]

I hate to be blunt but an agenda could easily have been seen (It was my first thought when I read the KN post). The "Mike Pick is Mr. Parker's successor" train has been running for a long time and most recently by the person (ESPECIALLY on KN in seemingly every other post he mentions Mr. Pick when it's not even relevant to the thread topic) who made the "honest" mistake. Personal opinion...in this sense "successor" isn't a word you "accidently" add to what was actually said. But it's not terribly relevant. Like you said it's a little late and I'll add a little pointless.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that. No disrespect intended for that person, but it seemed to me that when Mr. Parker Jr. posted, he was quite disturbed, to put it mildly. I'd think that if someone was going to make a statement such as the one made, more caution would be put into the wording.

Mike

[michaeledward]

I have to imagine Mr. Parker hopes to continue to do business with all Kenpo Practitioners. He does, after all, market products to all of us.

If someone, impolitically, makes a statement that offends a group, or groups of practitioners, it may have a direct impact on Mr. Parker and his business.

It's one thing to think MY lineage is the TRUE lineage ... but, if my business is to market to ALL Kenpo players, the post certainly was a bad thing.

[KenpoGunz]

After thinking about it for a few days and considering all the input available. It does sound like a rather hard mistake to make.

Than again, why would anyone with an agenda make a huge public statement like that if they knew it could easily be refuted.

It does'nt really matter anyway but I've decided to reserve judgement. I simply do not know enough about the situation to have an informed opinion or judge anyones character.

I do know that I have a decent left jab and I have been itching to spar all day. Tomorrow can't come fast enough. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I have to imagine Mr. Parker hopes to continue to do business with all Kenpo Practitioners. He does, after all, market products to all of us.

If someone, impolitically, makes a statement that offends a group, or groups of practitioners, it may have a direct impact on Mr. Parker and his business.

It's one thing to think MY lineage is the TRUE lineage ... but, if my business is to market to ALL Kenpo players, the post certainly was a bad thing.

There's a business end to this stuff? who knew? :)

[Bode]

Does anyone have a copy of the Mike Pick "Successor" poster? I have wanted to see it for a long time, but it seems no one kept a copy.

Either way, I'm with most of you. It wouldn't mean much. I'd just keep on training. No doubt all involved have some Kenpo experience, but it won't make me change lineage.

[jazkiljok]

I hate to be blunt but an agenda could easily have been seen (It was my first thought when I read the KN post). The "Mike Pick is Mr. Parker's successor" train has been running for a long time and most recently by the person (ESPECIALLY on KN in seemingly every other post he mentions Mr. Pick when it's not even relevant to the thread topic) who made the "honest" mistake.

hmmmm, if this is the same guy they're referring to who got his 7th-- then it seems like all the name dropping paid off ...:D

[hongkongfooey]

I too have noticed all of the name dropping done by this certain poster on KN. He kind of reminds me of Brainy Smurf....Papa Smurf always says.

[youngbraveheart]

Looks like Mr. Parker is pretty irritated by and fed up with the kenpo community at large and wishes everyone would go jump off a cliff. Can't say I blame him. I'd say, just let this go, don't fan the flames and leave the guy alone.

I agree...

[MJS]

Before the posts in question were removed, I saw that it was said that Mr. Pick had spent more time with Mr. Parker than anyone else. Interestingly enough, I hear people say that Mr. Tatum spent quite a bit of time with Parker. So..go figure. IMHO, I think that other things should be taken into consideration, not just length of time spent with training with someone.

[Brian Jones]

Even if Edmound Parker Jr. named a successor to his father, so what? I mean if you think his opinion has validity, then fine. If you don't, then why worry about it? We still have freedom of speech. People can say what htey want, its up to us to decide if it matters to us. In theend its not going to make anyone switch from who they train with now. I know I'm not. So why even worry about it?

Brian Jones

[jfarnsworth]

There was mention in an earlier post about Mr. Picks style of Kenpo. Would someone be able to provide a more detailed description as to what his version of the art is like?
I had 1 seminar with the man. His style is save your butt in your face kenpo. He is a true kenpo master in my opinion.

[MJS]

I had 1 seminar with the man. His style is save your butt in your face kenpo. He is a true kenpo master in my opinion.

I guess what I'm looking for is a more detailed description. What makes his version different from Tatum, Palanzo, Chapel, or Paul Mills? This isn't intended to bash the man, but I've never met or worked with him, so I'm just trying to get a better understanding.

Thanks! :)

Mike

[bujuts]

I guess what I'm looking for is a more detailed description. What makes his version different from Tatum, Palanzo, Chapel, or Paul Mills? This isn't intended to bash the man, but I've never met or worked with him, so I'm just trying to get a better understanding.

Thanks! :)

Mike

Greetings, I'd like to offer something here, but its a rather daunting task to "describe one's kenpo", as I'm sure you can imagine. I actually started to, made it through two paragraphs, then realized I'd be glued to the chair for a while. So I looked at it, scratched my head, winced, then erased it all.

But a few topics that seem stand out to others are as follows, in no particular order.

1) The use of 12 Points of Consideration.
2) The system is Set-based, not technique-based.
3) The emphasis on mass enagement
4) Its use of the knife.
5) The systematic development of sponteneity.
6) Its emphasis on multiple assailants.
7) Its application in the military.
8) Its departure from some of Ed Parker's terminology.
9) Its tremendously handsome blue belts

Ok, so maybe #9 doesn't stand out, LOL, but nevertheless the rest of the topics are some of the things that others have noticed, asked about, and of which there have been subsequent discussions on this and other forums through the years. I'm more inclined to do a search for you rather than try to regurgitate (sp) some of it, depending on what you're curious about. But in the end, I can only get across so much given the written word.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation

[Tames D]

Greetings, I'd like to offer something here, but its a rather daunting task to "describe one's kenpo", as I'm sure you can imagine. I actually started to, made it through two paragraphs, then realized I'd be glued to the chair for a while. So I looked at it, scratched my head, winced, then erased it all.

But a few topics that seem stand out to others are as follows, in no particular order.

1) The use of 12 Points of Consideration.
2) The system is Set-based, not technique-based.
3) The emphasis on mass enagement
4) Its use of the knife.
5) The systematic development of sponteneity.
6) Its emphasis on multiple assailants.
7) Its application in the military.
8) Its departure from some of Ed Parker's terminology.
9) Its tremendously handsome blue belts

Ok, so maybe #9 doesn't stand out, LOL, but nevertheless the rest of the topics are some of the things that others have noticed, asked about, and of which there have been subsequent discussions on this and other forums through the years. I'm more inclined to do a search for you rather than try to regurgitate (sp) some of it, depending on what you're curious about. But in the end, I can only get across so much given the written word.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation
I don't know much about Mr. Picks version but I have heard #9 mentioned often.

[Doc]

I'm not a Kenpo guy, but I lurk around the Kenpo universe on a continuous basis(hey, there's only so much that you can find out about Shotokan!), so you Kenpo addicts/practitioners(seems to be a mutual thing) take this as you will...








DOC FOR PREZ!
You made my day sir. :)

[Carol]

I don't know much about Mr. Picks version but I have heard #9 mentioned often.

Handsome Blue Belts, eh? Well, if there are any out there that aren't spoken for, you can send 'em my way. :rofl:

[Doc]

Edmund did make the correction. I don't think it's fair to say that the miscommunication was from someone with a personal agenda.

Is there no room in your philosophy for someone to make an honest mistake? Assuming that others had an agenda speaks more to your own motivations than to those in question here.

I was there; I heard what was said.

The word successor wasn't used, but I could see how some people could've interpreted the situation that way. So, 'honest mistake' is certainly something that should be considered.

Back to the point of successors in general -- it's a little late. lol.

--Amy
Honest mistakes? Of course. But the parties in question have a "history" of such mistakes. In fact Mike has been promoting himself as "Ed Parker's successor, and 2nd Senior Grandmaster of American Kenpo" for almost a decade. I'm not exposing any secrets here. Those are his words, (not my interpretation) actually sent around on a full color poster inviting everyone to the ceremony, as well as posted on his site.

There are other serious "issues" as well surrounding rank, longevity, and even his status with Mr. Parker at the time of his death, that most seniors are silent about but are COMMON knowledge among us. So these "honest mistakes" come on the heels of some signifcant baggage in many oldsters eyes. I have no problem with Mike Pick personally. He does his thing as do I, but the ressurrection of this successor thing is a huge leap back into the negative limelight, and I might add not by him.

I spoke with Edmund. He chose his words very carefully because he is a very intelligent man who understands the implications of such a statement. He said in no uncertain terms he never used the word successor. He was simply paying compliments to those in attendance during his speech, and said similar things about others as well. The word he used was "bull." Indicating Mike Pick has always been a "bull" in pursuit of Kenpo and was a longtime student of his father. Clearly a description that could fit a lot of us. Edmund knew exactly was he was saying, and not saying. So that is a dead issue. Mike's accomplishments stand alone and do not have to be hyped by an overzealous newly promoted student perhaps with his own agenda who "honestly mistook" the word "Bull for "successor."

Mike Pick has found his path in Kenpo and is exemplary at it, and served his country well as a United States Marine during the Viet Nam era. I for one thank him his for his service and what he has done for all of us.

[jazkiljok]

Mike's accomplishments stand alone and do not have to be hyped by an overzealous newly promoted student perhaps with his own agenda who "honestly mistook" the word "Bull for "successor."


well, it won't be the first time an over zealous newly promoted student took to the forums to announce the second coming :) ... we've all witnessed in the past others get that treatment.

the facts remain that it is of little import these days to make this type of claim. a succession would entail something to succeed to as in office, or position. Ed Parker's IKKA has long folded leaving nothing really for a successor to take over.

the kenpo world is now a marketplace for many different versions and methods and it's up to the consumer to decide which of these products best fits their likes/dislikes as well as schedules and pocketbooks.

[Carol]

well, it won't be the first time an over zealous newly promoted student took to the forums to announce the second coming :) ... we've all witnessed in the past others get that treatment.

the facts remain that it is of little import these days to make this type of claim. a succession would entail something to succeed to as in office, or position. Ed Parker's IKKA has long folded leaving nothing really for a successor to take over.

the kenpo world is now a marketplace for many different versions and methods and it's up to the consumer to decide which of these products best fits their likes/dislikes as well as schedules and pocketbooks.

Very very very well said. :asian:

[kenpotroop]

My question is why does there have to be a successor. You train in your system and you should be happy with it, if not try something else.

[Carol]

My question is why does there have to be a successor. You train in your system and you should be happy with it, if not try something else.

That's pretty much it, Kenpotroop. There doesn't have to be a successor. There is story that's gone around, when SGM Parker was alive, he was teaching a seminar. Someone asked him who was going to succeed him when he passed on. SGM Parker's answer was "All of you." :)

[Sean Kelley]

Hey there Doc
Funny you mention about over-zealous as you were so eager to jump some rank from 7th Degree to 10 th Degree...but then who am I to say anything?
Since your on the subject of rank....my rank was from people with strong Lineage to the "Old Man" and with that I'm honored.
The topic with the Successor of Ed Parker is one I will not indulge in as I promised to let it go by Ed Parker jr,and it doesn't surprise me in the least to see that you went on the run to call him to put in your 2 cents of great concern as it might put a dent in your own ego.
Sir, we have never had a formal introduction one on one but I have witnessed your professional manners on 2 occassions and I hope your vulgar ways in a public arena have gotten better?
I believe everyone who worked with the "Old Man" have worth but nobody
needs to force it on someone to win there approval....
Sorry for not being on your popular list but I didn't appreciate the over zealous comment since you don't even know my character as a person....good day!
TCB....

[Hand Sword]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

- Hand Sword -
-MT Moderator-

[Bode]

Hey there Doc
Funny you mention about over-zealous as you were so eager to jump some rank from 7th Degree to 10 th Degree...but then who am I to say anything?
Mr Kelly. The 10th degree was awarded by an outside institution. In specific, ATAMA. From the website (http://www.martialscienceuniversity.com): Dr. Chapél has been awarded his 8th, 9th, and 10th degree rankings by ATAMA, The prestigious American Teachers Association of the Martial Arts. Founded by Martial Art great Shaolin Kenpo Grandmaster Ralph Castro, Raymond "Duke" Moore, along with Wa Do Ki Kai Grandmaster John Pereira

He didn't jump. He was awarded the degrees over time. There is a difference between being awarded a degree and claiming one.


Since your on the subject of rank....my rank was from people with strong Lineage to the "Old Man" and with that I'm honored.No one disputed your rank.



The topic with the Successor of Ed Parker is one I will not indulge in as I promised to let it go by Ed Parker jr,and it doesn't surprise me in the least to see that you went on the run to call him to put in your 2 cents of great concern as it might put a dent in your own ego.I doubt he ran to call him.


Sir, we have never had a formal introduction one on one but I have witnessed your professional manners on 2 occassions and I hope your vulgar ways in a public arena have gotten better? But questioning various peoples lineage and asserting they are liars is ok? I've seen you participate in more than a few character assasinations. Mr Kelly, if Doc's behavior is vulgar, then what is yours?



I believe everyone who worked with the "Old Man" have worth but nobody
needs to force it on someone to win there approval....I don't understand this comment.


Sorry for not being on your popular list but I didn't appreciate the over zealouscomment since you don't even know my character as a person....good day!Being over zealous is not a bad thing. It shows passion and motivation. However, sometimes it can be clouded. It's great that you are passionate, but when people make false statements it irritates some of the more senior people. Doc is simply the most vocal, much as you are vocal. How many times have you known about someone who jumped rank and you thought, "He shouldn't be able to do that." Well, from Doc's perspective (he was there) Mr. Pick did just that. Along with the whole successor comment (which has been tried before), it tipped the scales of irritation I suppose.

[jazkiljok]

...but then who am I to say anything?

excellent point.

[Carol]

The topic with the Successor of Ed Parker is one I will not indulge in

It is, however, the topic of the thread...and up till now we've had some rather interesting commentary about GM Mike Pick and whether SGM Parker truly has, or needs, a successor.

[KenpoGunz]

I have a great idea. From now on, any disputes reagrding rank, politics, statements made, or any other Kenpo shadyness should be handled by a kumite involving the disputing parties. Full-contact, with few rules, waivers signed and free to the whole Kenpo community.

It could be held in Pasadena CA, I could be an announcer, we might even be able to get it on TV.

If this is how it went down, I'd be willing to bet, we would see a lot less BS in Kenpo http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Bode]

I have a great idea. From now on, any disputes reagrding rank, politics, statements made, or any other Kenpo shadyness should be handled by a kumite involving the disputing parties. Full-contact, with few rules, waivers signed and free to the whole Kenpo community.

It could be held in Pasadena CA, I could be an announcer, we might even be able to get it on TV.

If this is how it went down, I'd be willing to bet, we would see a lot less BS in Kenpo http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

LOL.... so true. Kumite! Brings back Jean Claude memories...

[Carol]

LOL.... so true. Kumite! Brings back Jean Claude memories...

LOL! Now I have the Bloodsport theme going through my head...

"Kumite...kumite...kumite..." :rofl:

[MJS]

Greetings, I'd like to offer something here, but its a rather daunting task to "describe one's kenpo", as I'm sure you can imagine. I actually started to, made it through two paragraphs, then realized I'd be glued to the chair for a while. So I looked at it, scratched my head, winced, then erased it all.

But a few topics that seem stand out to others are as follows, in no particular order.

1) The use of 12 Points of Consideration.
2) The system is Set-based, not technique-based.
3) The emphasis on mass enagement
4) Its use of the knife.
5) The systematic development of sponteneity.
6) Its emphasis on multiple assailants.
7) Its application in the military.
8) Its departure from some of Ed Parker's terminology.
9) Its tremendously handsome blue belts

Ok, so maybe #9 doesn't stand out, LOL, but nevertheless the rest of the topics are some of the things that others have noticed, asked about, and of which there have been subsequent discussions on this and other forums through the years. I'm more inclined to do a search for you rather than try to regurgitate (sp) some of it, depending on what you're curious about. But in the end, I can only get across so much given the written word.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
Universal Kenpo Federation

Thanks! :) You're right, it is a daunting task and I suppose the best way to really get a solid impression of something is to see it live, where you can form your own opinion. :) I wouldn't mind attending a seminar, if there was ever one in my area. Then again, I could always add Mr. Pick to my list of Kenpoists I need to travel to see. I need to plan a trip to Ca. Not only to see the state, but I'd like to see Doc!:ultracool I heard that he likes the Chinese Buffet, so we already have one thing in common!!:ultracool

[MJS]

So, what exactly determines having the "S" word given to you? Perhaps we can lead this discussion in that direction for a moment. Would it be the amount of time spent with Mr. Parker? Would it be how similar one moves? Would it be the understanding of the art?

Mike

[Monadnock]

A successor to what exactly? Most everyone who trained directly under Parker created their own org/fed/etc. Seems like after Mr. Parker passed, there was no fed (IKKA) left to pass on so everyone went and made up their own thing, including Mr. Pick, no? I think Leilani took it over for a while but it fizzled out.

Seems most groups do practice and teach the art their own way now since there is no unifying core left to pass on. I think as long as our lineage goes back to Mr. Parker, like mentioned above, we all are.

I do recall an article/interview with Richard "Huk" Planas being named as the possible "heir." Black Belt does not list it any longer, but some of you may remember: http://members.aol.com/DrLenKenpo/Director.htm

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Mr Kelley. The 10th degree was awarded by an outside institution. In specific, ATAMA. From the website (http://www.martialscienceuniversity.com): Dr. Chapél has been awarded his 8th, 9th, and 10th degree rankings by ATAMA, The prestigious American Teachers Association of the Martial Arts. Founded by Martial Art great Shaolin Kenpo Grandmaster Ralph Castro, Raymond "Duke" Moore, along with Wa Do Ki Kai Grandmaster John Pereira...........

Beat me to it.

[IWishToLearn]

Bode - if you ever find that Mike Pick Successor poster I'd love to see it too. :)

[Kenpojujitsu3]

The "successor" claim is the most laughable topic ever. I've heard so much on this topic it gets a little tired at times.

--Tatum is the successor because he was the "key" protege
--Palanzo and Tom Kelly are the successor's because they were proteges and Tatum and Parker had a fall out
--Huk Planas is the successor because he helped develop much of the system along with Mr. Parker and Mr. Tom Kelly.
--Frank Trejo is the successor because he excelled at forms and fighting
--Mr. Trejo can't be the successor because he was Mr. Planas' brown belt along with Mr. Tatum at one point.
--"Huk" can't be the successor because he was predated and taught by Mr. Labounty
--Mr. Mills is the successor because he was Mr. Parker's "secret weapon" the "smiling guillotine" during those frequent trips to Wyoming
--Mr. Mills can't be the successor because he is doing his own system
--Doc is the successor because he has been around the "longest"
--Doc can't be the successor because he is doing his own thing
--Ed Parker, Jr. is the successor because he is Mr. Parker's son
--Ed Parker, Jr. can't be the successor because he isn't a black belt
--Ed Parker, Jr. is now a black belt
--Ed Parker, Jr. is a black belt now but isn't "senior" enough
-- Mike Pick is the successor because Mr. Parker promoted him with his own belt.
--Mr. Pick can't be the successor because he wasn't even the most senior or highest ranked when Mr. Parker died
--Jim Mitchell is the successor because he was chosen to video tape the entire system for Mr. Parker.
--Jim Mitchell can't be the successor for the same reason as Mr. Pick
--The successor has to be doing Kenpo EXACTLY as Mr. Parker left it
--Mr. Pick is doing his own thing as are Doc and Mr. Mills so they are out.
--Mr. Labounty is doing his own thing.
--Mr. Palanzo and Mr. Kelly just revised how they are delivering the system
--Mr. Planas is teaching "old" kenpo one minute and then the next minute is adding filipino influences (which is it? can't be both). So his kenpo is either too old or too new to be the successor.
--Ed Parker, Jr. is content to be a part of the Kenpo Community as a WHOLE
--Mr. Conatser is the successor because Doc says he knows the written material better than anyone
--Mr. Conatser can't be it based on Doc's vote because there is no "proof" Doc trained with Mr. Parker.
--Pictures in infinite "insights" and video in "sophisticated basics" doesn't count
--Chuck Sullivan can't be the successor for the afore-mentioned, changed the system rule.
--How come Mr. Bob White's name never comes up? He was a 7th as well during the time of Mr. Parker's passing.
--Mr. Pick developed the Kenpo Knife material with Mr. Parker along with Forms 9 and 10.
--That can't be entirely true because Mr. Parker developed the knife material with Mr. Mills
--Both are irrelevant as the knife material was not in infinite insights and therefore never existed.
--therefore neither did Sub-Level 4
--If it wasn't in Infinite Insights it's not valid so any one doing "new" takes on kenpo or system modifications are not valid as successors.
--Therefore no SL-4, 16 tech system, Kenpo Knifes, Karambits, etc. count.
--Therefore everyone who was a 7th at the time of Mr. Parker's passing (and the one's who weren't) are discounted.
--Conclusion: All Seniors are invalidated for multiple reasons. No successor available....until someone else (or the same usual suspects again) decides that whoever they are under THIS YEAR is NOW the successor. And the cycle repeats itself.

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

James:

That is quite possibly one of the funniest and most succinct synopses I have ever seen.

Regards,
Dave

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Hey there Doc
Funny you mention about over-zealous as you were so eager to jump some rank from 7th Degree to 10 th Degree...but then who am I to say anything?
Since your on the subject of rank....my rank was from people with strong Lineage to the "Old Man" and with that I'm honored.
The topic with the Successor of Ed Parker is one I will not indulge in as I promised to let it go by Ed Parker jr,and it doesn't surprise me in the least to see that you went on the run to call him to put in your 2 cents of great concern as it might put a dent in your own ego.
Sir, we have never had a formal introduction one on one but I have witnessed your professional manners on 2 occassions and I hope your vulgar ways in a public arena have gotten better?
I believe everyone who worked with the "Old Man" have worth but nobody
needs to force it on someone to win there approval....
Sorry for not being on your popular list but I didn't appreciate the over zealous comment since you don't even know my character as a person....good day!
TCB.

In general, Mr. Kelley, it is considered poor form to derogatorily accuse another of being an elephant while your own trunk is dangling in the way. To decry what you percieve as an unkind accusation with yet another unkind accusation is...shall we say, "small".

To wit: You make an assesment of Doc's character based on previous internet postings, then deride his ability to scry your character in the same manner.

And while someone must eventually be willing to provide advancement in kenpo in these days after 1990, you again deride Mr. Chapel's current rank as not being provided by the old man, while taking pride in yours...also not provided by the old man. And, as I'm sure you know, whereas your 7th was acknowledged by people in tight with Mr. Parker, Mr. Chapel's 7th was FROM Mr. Parker. Many years ago. Many ACTIVE years ago.

I believe Bode responded sufficiently to the details; I just wanted to address the irony in the tone.

Regards,

Dave Crouch, DC

As an aside: Larger print is often considered "screaming" in online culture. The natural font for this forum is Verdana, 2 point.

[EdParkerJr]

My father said on many an occasion these words. "My son is my right hand, and my wife is my left, what foot would you like to be?" Edmund Kealoha Parker Sr. had one son and one son only. I AM THAT SON, I AM HIS HEIR. If you do not like this come to my house and take away the blood from my veins.

My path is alone and my journey is difficult in kenpo. During my years in this community I have been stepped on and spit on all because of who my father is/was. The sad thing is the ones that spit are my so called kenpo family. So I say spit away because I will not give up my rights as my fathers son no matter how many people feel differently.

I find it ironic how people will use my name and words when it becomes convenient to use it as bullets against others when it serves them and other times the same people use my name and words to attack me as well. The reckless use of peoples lives and memories to serve a pointless fight. I had no idea that I was born into a shooting gallery.

Like a monkey with a gun we use our recklessness to hurt or harm others. We think that we are being laser precise with our attacks but they are like lobbing a grenade into a crowd. No one has a right to come into the American Kenpo community and reinvent history. I was born into this industry, and it was I that saw each and every high ranking student of my fathers start off from the beginning to the time of my fathers passing. I developed my own relationship with each of these individuals. It is my relationships. Some have been around for 47 years within my entire life.

I resent the fact that I am forced to have to come online to clean up others messes. It takes me away from my passions which is my art. Ron Chap'el, I love you dearly and it was you that I earned my black belt from many years ago. But I have not been on the mat with you in over 8 years. It is time to stop speaking for me on a public forum. I had to ask Sean Kelley (whom I also love dearly) to do the same on another forum. You both need to present your selves in a better way, you are both better than this. You are both my friends and it makes me mad to see you place me in the middle of this drama.

If I named Michael Robert Pick as a successor to my father, so what? (Even though I did not) I have the right to say what I want on behalf of my father more than any and all of his students, PERIOD! Mike Pick was the one man who my father used to be the "Bull" and anyone who grew up in American Kenpo knew this. He was the one and only guy my father had watch his back in the fashion that he did. All knew if Mike Pick came to see you he was there on behalf of my father. In my opinion Mike is the one true American Kenpo Patriot.

When it comes to opinions I stand alone. I am upset at the idea that people are using and twisting my words to service there own agenda. I am an extremely calculated individual and I find that when it comes to a public event (internet, award ceremonies, tournaments, seminars and camps) I choose my words carefully. I knew what I said publicly and what I did not.

No one has to take kenpo, it is a luxury, it is also something that is to be enjoyable. If not find something else to do. The are not enough bullies attacking us in the street now a days, so we stop using our fists and use our words. They hurt more and cut deeper we have proven that the pen is way mightier than the sword. The sad thing is how many become the bully. When they came to kenpo to defend themselves against a bully and wind up becoming the bully.

After all of this public drama that has arisen these past few weeks I have decided to write a book. The internet is a "Trailer Park Trash" way of communication. It is reckless and harmful more than not. I cannot communicate my 47 year journey and the things I have seen and the history I know with a few paragraphs on the internet. This will be my one and only shot to speak the depth that I feel needs to be shared. This project should take me the next few years to finish.

Please stop this reckless crusade or at least take a vacation from it. It does not help no matter how you justify this. Just for the record this is not a debate this is a statment and I will not entertain more on this topic as it is a time sponge to me.

Go back to the mats and do what you all do best. Teach!!!!

I will go back to do what I do best, draw and document my history.

[Kenpojujitsu3]

James:

That is quite possibly one of the funniest and most succinct synopses I have ever seen.

Regards,
Dave

Glad I could make some of the right people laugh during all of this. I may not be 100% percent right all the time (who is?) but you can't argue that I love Kenpo and the Kenpo community. Stuff like this while being laughable only serves to drive a wedge deeper between all of the families. Who cares who is the "real McCoy"? I remember when I was a colored belt my instuctor told me to enjoy being a colored belt because at Black Belt everything changes and you see the "ugly side" of things. I had no idea what he meant when he said "politics". Now I do and it saddens me to no end.

P.S. to the caller I offended in the past, my apologies. That is never my intention as hopefully Doc can vouch for. Salute.

[Jade Tigress]

Attention all users

Out of respect for both Mr. Parker Sr. and Mr. Parker Jr., and to avoid any further tension regarding this matter, this thread is now being closed.


Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator