Help! My schools a McDojang!!!

[white dragon]

Sadly the school I've been training at for the last two years is a McDojo/Dojang. But the sad thing is, it wasn't for the previous two years. I train at a univeristy club, and this year the instructors have been replaced by those that seem to sum up all the reasons people hate Taekwondo.

For ages now I've been defending taekwondo against attacks over on the TKD forum of this site, but now I can see exactly where people get thier views from. Now why am I writing about this, well because I value your opinions and would like to know what your view would be in my situation. I've been on the committee for the club for the past two years and the club has been getting bigger anf bigger. Over the summer break though our chair person took it upon herself to get rid of the instructors and apoint new ones. the reason for this? Well because when the previsou instructors came to teach at the club (two years ago, when I started also) she didn't have anything to say she was a blackbelt. She also claimed not have trained for about 7 years, which was when she took her grading. Seeing that she blatently wasn't up to blackbelt standard my instructor gave her an honoury blackbelt status, on the condition that she take a grading to authenticate her belt by the end of the year. Anyway the first year ended and she was still not up to standard to grade, so she skipped the grading. The second year ended, still not up to the standard. My instructor told her that if she didn't take the grading and pass within the next 8 weeks that he would take the belt off her. And rather than grade she just decided to kick the instructor out. Without consulting the rest of the committee I should add.

Anyway, so we come back to be told the man that has dedicated his time to training us to a high standard, forming a club that I would was proud to be a member of has been kicked out. And the new guys gave a demonstration. And they're worse than most of the green belts in the class, and seeing as they guy claims to be a 5th Dan it's shocking.

Anyway to cut a long story short the university are sick with us and can see there's a split in the club between those of us that want our old instructor back and those that seem to prefer the new guys. What they've decided to do now is to hold a vote with just the members of the club (not the committee) and get them to vote for who they'd prefer. The problem is the new members haven't met our old instructor so won't have a clue whod' they'd prefer.

the club is so shocking that I no longer want to train there and after all the time and effort I put into it over the past two years this is very upsetting. And if the new instructors stay I'm just going to walk out.

I just wondered if anyone here had ever gone through anything similar or what your views on the situation are, am I being childish in walking away?

[jfarnsworth]

Not childish at all. I wish I could explain some of the problems that were encountered with my "first" instructor. Too many things to list. My advice is find another style/instructor. This might be your opportunity to find another system that you may mesh with extremely well. I spent 5 yrs. training TKD in the beginning. Now I'm going on 8.5 in Kenpo. I am extremely happy about making the switch and wouldn't have wanted it otherwise. The TKD gave me a good back ground to excel with my experiences in kenpo. No looking back time only moves forward. Post back and let us know what you did.

[white dragon]

The thing is I want to stick with TKD, or at least what I believe TKD should be, which to some might actually be closer to Kempo with more dynamic kicks (from what I read of Kempo) the only other class around me that I'd be interested in taking is Kali, but that would cost me a fortune!

Thanks for the advice though, it's certainly something I'll take into consideration!

[Nightingale]

start a new club and appoint the old instructor.

[white dragon]

this is actually the first idea I had, and for whatever reason the university won't allow there to be 2 taekwondo clubs on campus. Karate had the same problem when people became unhappy with the instructor there.

[Nightingale]

so call it a "martial arts club" and every so often, invite a grappling instructor or something to do a seminar. Just don't say its TKD. Most people wouldn't know the difference.

[white dragon]

That's true, it's something I talked about with other people that are unhappy. This was where we left off actually before the prospect of having a club vote was introduced, we got stuck with the name though. We wanted something that sounded different enough from TKD for it to be allowed to go through, but didn't want people to see the name and think we were a cheap copy of the original club. Any ideas?

[Marginal]

TKD has a lotta names. Might just want to use the name of one of the kwans that were brought together to make TKD in the first place. Something like Oh Do Kwan...

[TkdWarrior]

that's indeed a sad status...
if u wanna ask for name then i think mariginal gave u good idea...
u hav lots of names to choose from just add "Do" in end to make it sound like Korean :D :p
-TkdWarrior-

[The 14th Style]

Originally posted by white dragon

That's true, it's something I talked about with other people that are unhappy. This was where we left off actually before the prospect of having a club vote was introduced, we got stuck with the name though. We wanted something that sounded different enough from TKD for it to be allowed to go through, but didn't want people to see the name and think we were a cheap copy of the original club. Any ideas?

What about the Korean Martial arts alliance or Korean Martial arts club, or something like that? Just my two cents
Respectfully The 14th Style

[Seig]

Originally posted by white dragon

Sadly the school I've been training at for the last two years is a McDojo/Dojang. But the sad thing is, it wasn't for the previous two years. I train at a univeristy club, and this year the instructors have been replaced by those that seem to sum up all the reasons people hate Taekwondo.

For ages now I've been defending taekwondo against attacks over on the TKD forum of this site, but now I can see exactly where people get thier views from. Now why am I writing about this, well because I value your opinions and would like to know what your view would be in my situation. I've been on the committee for the club for the past two years and the club has been getting bigger anf bigger. Over the summer break though our chair person took it upon herself to get rid of the instructors and apoint new ones. the reason for this? Well because when the previsou instructors came to teach at the club (two years ago, when I started also) she didn't have anything to say she was a blackbelt. She also claimed not have trained for about 7 years, which was when she took her grading. Seeing that she blatently wasn't up to blackbelt standard my instructor gave her an honoury blackbelt status, on the condition that she take a grading to authenticate her belt by the end of the year. Anyway the first year ended and she was still not up to standard to grade, so she skipped the grading. The second year ended, still not up to the standard. My instructor told her that if she didn't take the grading and pass within the next 8 weeks that he would take the belt off her. And rather than grade she just decided to kick the instructor out. Without consulting the rest of the committee I should add.

Anyway, so we come back to be told the man that has dedicated his time to training us to a high standard, forming a club that I would was proud to be a member of has been kicked out. And the new guys gave a demonstration. And they're worse than most of the green belts in the class, and seeing as they guy claims to be a 5th Dan it's shocking.

Anyway to cut a long story short the university are sick with us and can see there's a split in the club between those of us that want our old instructor back and those that seem to prefer the new guys. What they've decided to do now is to hold a vote with just the members of the club (not the committee) and get them to vote for who they'd prefer. The problem is the new members haven't met our old instructor so won't have a clue whod' they'd prefer.

the club is so shocking that I no longer want to train there and after all the time and effort I put into it over the past two years this is very upsetting. And if the new instructors stay I'm just going to walk out.

I just wondered if anyone here had ever gone through anything similar or what your views on the situation are, am I being childish in walking away?
Why do you not just seek the old instructor out and see if he will take you on as a student himself?

[Bod]

Beat the new instructors so hard in training that they go away.

[Bod]

Better still, introduce as many new members of the club to the old teacher. This is politics. You have to work hard to get your ideas across.

[Aegis]

I'd say first of all have a vote to remove the chairperson from power. She had no right whatsoever to replace the instructor on her own and should be punished for doing so.

Secondly, take a vote on who to keep, but only those who have actually trained with both instructors should get a say. Otherwise there's no comparison, and therefore not a fair vote.

If this fails, start a new club, like other pople have already mentioned. The you could always do inter-club competitions and show who's better to everyone.....

[Master of Blades]

Hmmm sounds like those people need an ass kicking! Where abouts in the UK are you? I might be able to help :shrug:

:rofl: :shrug: :asian:

[white dragon]

Sadly my university is all the way up north, wouldn't like to mention it by name, but it's on the side of the river tees, I'll let you work that one out. I'm from Hertfordshire myself though. A good arse kicking is in order, there's going to be a vote tonight, we've been asked to make a list of reaoons why we liked our old instructor, and the chairperson is doing alist in favour of the new instructors. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. If anyone's interested I could post the reasons here to see what you guys think?

[7starmantis]

Is the chair person not getting any reprocutions from making a group decision by herself?

7sm

[tshadowchaser]

I agree first thing vote the chair person out. Then if need be invite the old instructor and the new ones to give a demo toeveryone or as had been said befor show the New ones that they are not that good.
How is the knowledge of the new instructors? Are they as knowledgeable as the old one? Are they running the club as a black belt factory or ae they teaching? Do the new instructors forfill the needs of the class?

[GouRonin]

Hire Jason Farnsworth to come to your school and twist this new guy's cap on right. He works on the cheap.

Woo hoo!
:D

[jfarnsworth]

You gave out my night time job. Oh well keep on keepin' on.
:)

[GouRonin]

He's a killer folks!
:eek:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by white dragon

Sadly my university is all the way up north, wouldn't like to mention it by name, but it's on the side of the river tees, I'll let you work that one out. I'm from Hertfordshire myself though. A good arse kicking is in order, there's going to be a vote tonight, we've been asked to make a list of reaoons why we liked our old instructor, and the chairperson is doing alist in favour of the new instructors. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. If anyone's interested I could post the reasons here to see what you guys think?

Yeah, I'd like to hear!~

[Master of Blades]

Yeah I wouldnt mind hearing, specially as something like this is happnin in my country! :mad:


:rofl: :shrug: :asian:

[tshadowchaser]

Yes, Please, let us know how it goes. even if some of your countrymen live 6 or 7 hours away they might be interested in helping if they can

[white dragon]

Before I say anything I would like to thank you ALL for your input and comments. You have helped put my mind at rest that I wasn't over reacting in my views on the subject and that I wasn't being unreasonable in some of the ideas I had (as they have been echoed here by members of the board).

for those of you who want to know, this is Teesside University, and I am working for the BSTF (British Student taekwondo federation). I have given up SO much for my art and training that to be treaded like this is the biggest kick in the teeth I can imagine. For ages I've defended TKD against others (both on the boards and in real life fight situations) but now I can see EXACTLY were their views stem from.

As you may have guessed (no kidding, right?!?) tonight didn't go as I hoped it would and the club has decided to keep the new instructors. What ever, they haven't even met the old ones so how it could be a fair vote I have no idea.

For those of you in the UK can I ask where you train as I need to find a new club (for holiday periods as well, I'm not always up north!!!).

The MEMBERS have voted to keep the new instructors so the committee could not over rule that even if they kicked out the chairperson. As for the chair person getting any repocutions, I can garantee it will happen....

As an example to those of you that do TKD and know what is required at a grading, to grade with the new instructors to yellow belt stauts all you need to do is:
a 45 degree turning kick, a push kick, and pattern 1 (wtf style).

THE END. When I gradeed for mine, I had to do:
Front kick, truning kick (NOT a cop-out 45 degree one!!!), side kick, high rising kick, axe kick, mid section punch and reverse, long stance, walking stance, ready stance, inward block, outward block, high rising block, low block, three step sparring, one step sparring, self defence against a grab to the wrist(both sides), double hand grab to the upper body, and a double wrist grab. As well as the first pattern and at the end got throw stamina of 20 push ups, 20 stomach crunches, 20 star jumps, and 20 squat thrusts.

that doesn't seema lot at all now, but compared to the BELT FACTORY the club now is, it's a hell of a lot of difference.

right now my mind is raging between walking out on the club forever or staying there and trying my hardest to overturn the vote and get our old guys down to show people the difference. Just for those that wanted to know, here's a list of reasons why we enjoyed training with our old instructor. You'll notice a little emphasis placed on the sport side, this is beacase the evil wueen of a chairperson sent an email to people saying that he hated tournaments and wanted nothing to do with them. Make up your own mind.

• In the two years that Mike was at the club, it grew from one of the smallest to the largest martial arts clubs at the university and became the second largest club in the university.
• During his two years at the club Mike established and maintained a high level of training which was clearly reflected in his students when compared to students from other schools.
• A single training lesson could consist of several aspects of taekwondo, ranging from basic to dynamic kicks, hand techniques, break-falls, sweeps, throws, pad work, self defence, locks, and patterns.
• It was only extremely rarely that Mike would be unable to make a training session. This allowed him to get to know the members of the club as individuals, and as a result know what their strengths and weaknesses were.
• Before asking the class to practice a particular technique Mike would demonstrate the technique himself, breaking it down into stages, and explain the practical application for each technique. He would then ask to make sure everyone understood what they were meant to be doing.
• While students were practicing techniques Mike would go around the room correcting techniques.
• Mike’s style of teaching is geared towards giving people a grounding in realistic self defence. As well as giving students confidence this has also been proved effective in conflicts on the street in more than one instance in the passed 2 years.
• As well as attending training sessions himself he would also bring qualified instructors with him to help teach students.
• For those that wished to take part in tournaments Mike would either train students himself or provide an instructor that would teach the students that wished to fight, while Mike would continue to instruct those that didn’t want to take part in fight training in traditional taekwondo.
• Fight training consisted of a mix of stamina training and sparring, so that students would be able to last a three minute match without too much problem.
• At the first tournament the club went to the university successfully won a silver and a bronze medal. Mike also sent an instructor with us (the same one that had been taking people for the tournament training) to Birmingham to coach us at ringside.
• The following year the club won two gold medals, two silver medals, and two bronze medals. Mike and a fellow instructor drove to Birmingham to coach fighters at ringside.
• Mike does NOT have a problem teaching tournament style fighting or with his students entering tournaments. Mike himself has entered many tournaments and has even won the North of England Taekwondo Championship twice and won a bronze medal in the British Taekwondo Championships for his team.
• In the two years Mike was with the club there were very few minor injuries under his instruction.
• Mike could provide the club with an additional 4th Dan (at no cost to the club) to coach the fight training on Tuesdays. Or if people like the current fight training he is happy for them to keep training people on Tuesdays.
• Training would continue on the same days and times as current training.
• Club members would still have the opportunity to attend a range of competitions, including: the BUSA leagues, open competitions (such as the Cambridge Open), and all BSTF tournaments and events, including the Student Nationals. Medal winners at the student nationals will stand a chance of being put forward to win a place in British Student National Team and take part in the Student Internationals in 2003, which should be held in California.
• As Mike very rarely misses training sessions and knows all the instructors that may replace him, should such an instance occur, lessons will still progress each time. Rather than making students repeat the same kicks lesson after lesson.
• There will still be the same amount of gradings a year as currently planned.
• Mike’s certificates are endorsed by Kukkiwon, the head quarters of Taekwondo in Korea.
• The quality of training will be at such a level that anyone grading at the club could walk into another club knowing full well that they have earned the right to wear their belt and are up to a standard that no one could question that

THANKS again for your time, and I would like to echo once more that I only posted this here because I respect all your opinions, now what what view they maybe.

yours, honour and respect.
- White Dragon
AKA Liam Cullen
University of Teesside TKD club fight team captain 2002/2003
University of Teesside TKD club Secretary 2001/2002
University of Teesside TKD club liason officer 2002/2001
BSTF comittee member 2002/2003

Ps. GouRonin - who's Jason Farnsworth???

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by white dragon
Ps. GouRonin - who's Jason Farnsworth???

He's badder than old King Kong, and meaner than a junkyard dog!
:eek: :D

[white dragon]

Gou - I have admired you since joining the board, please please tell me more about this guy and a possible contact address. Unless you're beinf sarcastic in which case..... **insert rude words here** ;) :D

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by white dragon
Gou - I have admired you since joining the board

Please, don't throw compliments. Throw money. I have a mortgage to pay ya know...
:rolleyes:


Originally posted by white dragon
please please tell me more about this guy and a possible contact address. Unless you're beinf sarcastic in which case..... **insert rude words here**

Ha ha ha! Ok, ya got me. I was pulling yer chain. Jason Farnsworth IS a real person from the Ohio area of the USA. He's a good kenpoist and a nice guy. I was looking to make him laugh because he's such a nice guy I'm sure he's the last guy who would tear off after someone unless he had a good reason.

My thanks to both of you for putting up with my sillyness.
:D

[white dragon]

Hey I'll be throwin' IOU's your way, I'm student you know, I'm already about £11,000 in debt. And that's £s not $s, rememebr there's about $1.5 to £1!!!! So any money coming this way is welcomed ;)

Kempo you say? Well maybe I'll find a club and give it a go, there isn't much around here to be honest, althoguh I'm told there's a good FMA place near me so I'll check that out.

Oh Jason from Ohio??? Yeah I've heard of him now... he's a real pu**y right? ;) KIDDING KIDDING KIDDING :D :D :D

Actually I meant to ask, the dog quote you use, where's that from??

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by white dragon
Actually I meant to ask, the dog quote you use, where's that from??

I heard the first part of the quote somewhere and added the rest but I think it's been said before. So you;re welcome to it.

[white dragon]

Cool, I just thought it would make a perfect T-shirt... expect to see them on sale in every Kwick Emart in american by the end of the week and me on CNN laughing my face off. ;)

[GouRonin]

I better get my cut of the gross/net mister!
:cuss: :angry: :jedi1: :disgust:

[white dragon]

gheeeeeeeeee!!!!! :D Just kidding. For it's worth you can use this one to advertise any club:

"make new friends, kick them in the head..."

[GouRonin]

The only time my foot gets high enough to kick anyone in the head is when they are already laying on the ground.
:rolleyes:

[white dragon]

You know, if you train enough it becomes natural, remember after all, martial arts are not natural movements, they're unnatural movements that come naturally. This time last year I wouldn't have thought of kicking someone in the head in a street fight, now I know that with practice you can lead leg turning kick someone in the head in the middle of a nightclub and have them knocked out before their body hits the floor. and that's lead leg, so you're loosing a lot of power from the hip rotation there.

But hey, personally I think now I'd just kick the feema (however you spell it!) with a turning kick and then either axe kick the guy on the ground or keep beating the back of his head as hard as I can.

My, what a nice subject!!!!

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by white dragon
remember after all, martial arts are not natural movements, they're unnatural movements that come naturally.

Actually, Systema is natural movement. In my opinion any art that forces you to do something that you naturally wouldn't will cause you problems.

[white dragon]

Ah yes, but you must train in the movements so that they come to you naturally. for example before I wouldn't have considered a lot of sweeps, locks and punching combinations as natural movements, now however I could happily deliver them in a street fight or when attacked by suprise because they have become inbuilt (something I owe to a good instructor). for example if someone came towards me in an agressive manner I would now more than likely devliver a stop side kick to the rips of the knee, but before this wouldn't have been the case....

... am I making sense?

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by white dragon
Ah yes, but you must train in the movements so that they come to you naturally.

I understand what you are trying to say but Systema is not like that. It uses natural movments that you do. Not something you must train to do.

[Nightingale]

with regards to finding somewhere else to train: contact your old instructor. maybe he will teach you. If not, he can probably recommend someone.