I have made the decision to retrain in my kenpo. Kenpo was the first art I studied, beginning in 1984 when I was in high school. I reached first dan, but was unable to continue training beyond that, as I left for college, my instructor moved way, etc. I always kept practicing on my own, but drifted away from it while studying other arts, sometimes for years at a time. But I always seemed to return to it again at some point.

I always felt it had a lot of good stuff in it. However, in the last couple of years I have modified my material heavily, to streamline the system for myself. I have often felt many of the SD techs were unnecessary and burdensome, and my rants can be found liberally scattered around here on Martialtalk. I won't reiterate all that again here.

I have been giving this a lot of thought, in the meantime. It has been many years since I have had a chance to work with a kenpo instructor. In the meantime I have been focused on learning other arts, and I am sure there is much in my kenpo that I have forgotten while my focus was elsewhere. My original instructors were not high level people, and I now live halfway across the continent from them. While I believe my training with them was solid, I am sure there is a lot that perhaps I never learned as well as I could. So I decided that it would be a great benefit to myself to retrain with another instructor.

I have been speaking a couple times with Ted Sumner in San Jose, CA. As many of you probably know, he is 8th dan under Al Tracy, and has been involved in Tracy's kenpo since around 1964 or so. I believe he is among the very top teachers and practitioners in the Tracys system. Next Tuesday, I will drive down to San Jose from San Francisco, and take my first class with him. It is a long drive, during commute hours. It could take anywhere from an hour, to an hour and a half each way. Honestly, I don't know if this will work out, primarily due to the commute, but I want to give it a try. I am excited about this prospect. Mr. Sumner has been very good to talk to on the phone, and I am looking forward to meeting him and working under his direction.

On top of this, my wife is going with me, and will also take the class and see if she likes it. She has been training in Capoeira for about 8 or 9 years of so (that is where we met), and is kind of wanting to explore something different now. In the past, I taught her a little bit of kenpo, the first couple of forms and a few SD techs from Orange Belt. She also has a background in Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido, during her high school days. So this stuff shouldn't be entirely foreign to her.

We intend to continue studying Capoeira to some degree, and I will still meet with my kung fu sifu on Saturdays. that stuff is too damn good to abandon, and I have no intention of doing so. But I want to bring a stronger line of kenpo back into my life. Exciting stuff, I just wanted to share. Thx, everyone.

Congrats and good luck...
I hope that this works out for you and your wife...

Congrats and good luck...
I hope that this works out for you and your wife...

Ditto...Please keep us posted on what you're feeling as re-start your journey..

Congratulations and good luck!

I have been driving about 1 hr each way to keep my kempo going.
after awhile the drive will just be part of the routine. good luck and give it time to become part of you again
kosho

Good decision. And as far as the commute, at least you'll have your wife with you for company, so it might work out well.

Sounds like a very good decision, Michael. It's clear from the tone of your post that you're really happy about it, and I hope and believe that it will give just what you feel you need now in your MA career. As everyone has said, please keep us posted on how it's going.

Good decision. And as far as the commute, at least you'll have your wife with you for company, so it might work out well.
On second thought, this might not be a good idea, LOL. Just kidding of course.

On second thought, this might not be a good idea, LOL. Just kidding of course.


Heh heh, yeah, i know how that goes. Actually, she is really good company so I can't complain.

Heh heh, yeah, i know how that goes. Actually, she is really good company so I can't complain.
Actually I would love to have an hour or more a day to talk to my wife without the kids interupting...

Congratulations and good luck!

That is fantastic Michael! Best of luck to you and your wife! I hope it goes well for both of you. :)

Right On!
Sean

Have fun with your retraining

Ted Sumner is not just one of the top Tracy's instructors. I would put him up there as a top martial arts instructor. Period. I would love to only have to drive an hour or two to see him!

You will not be disappointed. I envy you.

Original/traditional kenpo is a truly impressive martial art when taught by someone who has mastered it. If your lifestyle can commit to the long drives, then you will see how "alive" kenpo can really be. I consider Dr Sumner to be the chief instructor for Tracy's kenpo.

Jim

Thank you everyone for your words of encouragement. I haven't had a chance to meet Mr. Sumner face to face yet, but I am encouraged to hear how highly others think of him.

I personally don't mind doing the drive. The only problem is that his class starts at 6:30, so I have to rush out of work and make that drive during commute hours. I am concerned that I might simply end up missing class, or at least being chronically late due to the timing and traffic. He understands my situation, and has indicated that he doesn't see it as a problem if we are late, I just hate to have to do that.

Well, if I find the experience good, I guess I will make the commitment to keep it up regardless, at whatever level I can manage in my hectic life. I hope my wife also decides to keep with it, I think it would be a fun thing for us to share together, including the travel time.

I'll keep you all posted as things unfold...

Sure I'm happy for you but.... but.... what about Xuefu???? :uhyeah:

I just saw this post.

I am very happy you found a good teacher and are returning to Tracy Kenpo and I am glad to hear you are going to keep meeting with your sifu too. I have no doubt you will do well. :asian:

Sure I'm happy for you but.... but.... what about Xuefu???? :uhyeah:



Ahh, well, Xuefu is always kept in my back pocket. It's really the secret weapon, far too devastating to unleash when first provoked, but available in an instant when all else has failed and the enemy is too powerful! Then, Xuefu always reigns supreme.

But I need a healthy arsenal of "lesser" arts to use for my primary defense. Liability purposes, you know...:p

Ahh, well, Xuefu is always kept in my back pocket. It's really the secret weapon, far too devastating to unleash when first provoked, but available in an instant when all else has failed and the enemy is too powerful! Then, Xuefu always reigns supreme.

But I need a healthy arsenal of "lesser" arts to use for my primary defense. Liability purposes, you know...:p


OK… I feel better now… I was worried there for a minute..... and I understand fully. That is why I openly train other styles so I have no reason to unleash the devastation of Xuefu. :supcool: :uhyeah: :p

OK… I feel better now… I was worried there for a minute..... and I understand fully. That is why I openly train other styles so I have no reason to unleash the devastation of Xuefu. :supcool: :uhyeah: :p


Any responsible master of Xuefu knows that it must never ever be used unless the very fate of the free world is at stake, or you are personally teetering on the brink of being torn to pieces by a horde of hungry tiger sharks with lazers on their heads. Or woman scorned. Under those circumstances, I find the lesser arts just don't measure up. I am personally relieved that this remarkable art is shared by only two people in the entire world. The temptation to abuse the knowledge is truly monumental, and most mere mortals would succomb quickly.

For personal self defense in handling your average, everyday bumpkin street thug, rapist, mugger, gang of thieves, or angry mob, the lesser arts are quite enough in most cases.

I haven't even told my wife that i know Xuefu. It is important that we keep this secret safe, and nobody else even gets wind of it!

Any responsible master of Xuefu knows that it must never ever be used unless the very fate of the free world is at stake, or you are personally teetering on the brink of being torn to pieces by a horde of hungry tiger sharks with lazers on their heads. Or woman scorned. Under those circumstances, I find the lesser arts just don't measure up. I am personally relieved that this remarkable art is shared by only two people in the entire world. The temptation to abuse the knowledge is truly monumental, and most mere mortals would succomb quickly.

For personal self defense in handling your average, everyday bumpkin street thug, rapist, mugger, gang of thieves, or angry mob, the lesser arts are quite enough in most cases.

I haven't even told my wife that i know Xuefu. It is important that we keep this secret safe, and nobody else even gets wind of it!

Ahh so true so very true.

I too have not told my wife I am versed in the art of Xuefu... the very mention of such terrible power could send her running.

You couldn't ask for a better instructor! Ted Sumner is considered by some to be next in line to Al Tracy.

I had my first session with Mr. Sumner last night. My wife was not able to attend, due to other projects she has been scrambling to complete. I think this was about a week or so too soon for her, but she plans to come along next week.

Mr. Sumner and I spoke a bit in the beginning, it seemed to just get to know each other a bit. I found him to be quite likeable. I explained to him that I really want to start over, in the beginning, like any new student fresh off the street. He indicated that was his intention in working with me, and that he also re-teaches all the material from the beginning to his students who reach Shodan anyway, to revisit and gain a deeper understanding of it all.

So we started with the basics. Stances, positioning, theories of power generation, etc. He also taught me the inward block, vertical outward block, and extended outward block. We also did the front snap kick, and back kick. We then worked on what I thought were just some basic combinations, but were in fact SD techs from the Yellow Belt curriculum. I had never been taught the Yellow Belt in the past, so they were new to me and I didn't recognize them. He gave me Japanese Sword, Chinese Sword, Knee of Vengeance, and Fang of the Cobra.

His attention to, and knowledge of, the minor details in all of this was on a level that I am definitely not used to. And he had good reasons for doing things in very specific ways. Things I had never thought about, and quite frankly, I don't believe my instructors ever taught me. I want to be careful about making that statement, however. I was a teenager at the time, some 20 years ago, and it is quite possible that I just don't remember these details. I definitely don't want to deparage my first instructors, as they gave me what they had, instilled good training ethics in me, and gave me some good tools that enabled me to thrive in martial training ever since. I am still in regular contact with one of them, and I count him among my good friends.

It was a really interesting experience to be retaught something as basic as the inward block, and realize I have been doing it in a less effective manner all this time.

This was time very well spent. I am looking forward to class next week, and developing an ongoing relationship with Mr. Sumner as his student.

When I got home, my wife asked how it went. I just told her that I think Mr. Sumner is really good at what he does, and we could learn a lot from him, and I think we should do so. I tried to explain some of what he showed me, illustrating the differences between the inward block as example. I couldn't do it justice the way Mr. Sumner could, but I think she got the picture. Hopefully she can join me next week and take part as well.

So that's my update for now.

I had my first session with Mr. Sumner last night.

Thanks for the update, it sounds like it went well and I hope your wife gets to go next time.

In reference to the inward block, I know the feeling. Although I do not want to say anything against my first Xingyi teacher either but when he taught me paoquan (cannon) it never felt right but when my second Xingyi teacher showed me years later, in greater detail, it fell into place.

But I always chalked it up to back ground, my first teacher was Wushu and trained for form appearance and my second way Xingyi and trained to fight.

Keep us posted.

Thanks for the update, it sounds like it went well and I hope your wife gets to go next time.

In reference to the inward block, I know the feeling. Although I do not want to say anything against my first Xingyi teacher either but when he taught me paoquan (cannon) it never felt right but when my second Xingyi teacher showed me years later, in greater detail, it fell into place.

But I always chalked it up to back ground, my first teacher was Wushu and trained for form appearance and my second way Xingyi and trained to fight.

Keep us posted.

My kung fu sifu tends to teach thru form, and like most traditional-minded teachers, it is often up to the student to figure it out. He certainly is willing to discuss the details if you inquire, but his approach is somewhat more "hands-off", to let the student discover.

In addition to improving my kenpo, I hope my time with Mr. Sumner, and the understanding that I think I can gain from him, will improve my kung fu and my capoeira as well. Understanding the details of why certain things work the way they do is something that I think I could apply to the other arts that I train.

In addition to improving my kenpo, I hope my time with Mr. Sumner, and the understanding that I think I can gain from him, will improve my kung fu and my capoeira as well. Understanding the details of why certain things work the way they do is something that I think I could apply to the other arts that I train.

I feel this is very true and I am sure it will help your other styles.

I have run into several things that my previous training has helped what I now train or that training something new has brought things together, Sanda has been very good at that actually.

So we started with the basics. Stances, positioning, theories of power generation, etc. He also taught me the inward block, vertical outward block, and extended outward block...It was a really interesting experience to be retaught something as basic as the inward block, and realize I have been doing it in a less effective manner all this time...I tried to explain some of what he showed me, illustrating the differences between the inward block as example. I couldn't do it justice the way Mr. Sumner could, but I think she got the picture.

Michael—I'd be very interested in hearing some of the details about the inward block, just what the technical differences were and what apps you discussed... any chance of getting you to flesh out those intriguing comments above, a little bit anyway? :)

Michael—I'd be very interested in hearing some of the details about the inward block, just what the technical differences were and what apps you discussed... any chance of getting you to flesh out those intriguing comments above, a little bit anyway? :)


Sure!

Basically, I had been doing my inward block with a movement that essentially goes in a path across the front of the torso. The block would intercept a punch at a roughly 90% angle. In addition to this, I would rotate thru my hips and waist as I would settle into stance, and use the power generated by this rotation to aid with the block. The final position of my blocking fist would be essentially palm facing my face.

The way Mr. Sumner was having me do it, included stepping back and settling into a solid horse stance. I immediately noticed the difference in that he was NOT instructing my to use a Neutral Bow, which seems to be the stance favored by the EPAK kenpo people, as I have seen in the discussions here. He touched upon that briefly, and feels that the Horse stance is more stable, tho he acknowledges that it sacrifices a small amount of mobility. It seems that he recognizes these sacrifices - no stance, or other technique, is perfect in every way. Everything is a compromise in some way, and as long as you understand that, and work with that understanding, it is fine.

At any rate, I would step back and settle quickly into a horse stance and fire off the inward block more like I was swinging a hammer to pound a nail (not exactly, but somewhat). It was slightly more "overhand", swinging out and more foreward to meet the incoming attack, and striking with the blade of the bone in the forearm, on the pinkie side. The final position of my fist had the thumb facing my face. In this way, the block is really being used like a strike, in addition to the blocking benefit. This movement also took advantage of the pivot that happens when you settle into the horse, and solidifies the technique by having it anchored to the torso.

From this position, he also discussed the differences inherent in how you hold your back hand in a guarding position. He feels that it is better to keep the back hand open, guarding, instead of a closed fist. He believes that the "flinch reflex" is significantly removed when the hand is open, and makes it easier to deal with an attack that slips by the block.

I hope I have characterised this accurately. I am sure my understanding of this will improve as we work on it.

Sounds right to me. Glad you had fun, and that it was worth your while.

Michael,
Welcome back to the Tracy's Kenpo System.... I'm glad to hear that things went well with your first class .... Mr. Sumner is one of the best ....
Finding an instructor that has a good enough grasp of the system to explain the basics and techniques in great detail is rare these days.

I can't count the number of times I've been told "I didn't know that about this technique before" when teaching .... It brings a smile to my face knowing Now they understand ....

Good luck ...

I would step back and settle quickly into a horse stance and fire off the inward block more like I was swinging a hammer to pound a nail (not exactly, but somewhat). It was slightly more "overhand", swinging out and more foreward to meet the incoming attack, and striking with the blade of the bone in the forearm, on the pinkie side. The final position of my fist had the thumb facing my face. In this way, the block is really being used like a strike, in addition to the blocking benefit. This movement also took advantage of the pivot that happens when you settle into the horse, and solidifies the technique by having it anchored to the torso.

I've always felt, instinctively, that the inward block is a strike, probably to targets on the attacker's forcibly lowered head. So this technical revision you describe makes perfect sense. The twist with the hand might reflect a purely pragmatic decision based on the target: do you want the striking surface to be the wristbone? Then rotate the forearm so the closed palm is facing your face as you administer the `block'. Do you want the strike to be more with the fleshy inside part of the forearm? Then keep the thumb facing the face.

From this position, he also discussed the differences inherent in how you hold your back hand in a guarding position. He feels that it is better to keep the back hand open, guarding, instead of a closed fist. He believes that the "flinch reflex" is significantly removed when the hand is open, and makes it easier to deal with an attack that slips by the block.

I hope I have characterised this accurately. I am sure my understanding of this will improve as we work on it.

Please send us technical updates as you go—this sort of info is one of the main reasons MT is such a terrific site! Thanks very much for the light shed on this basic technique.

quote=exile

I've always felt, instinctively, that the inward block is a strike, probably to targets on the attacker's forcibly lowered head. So this technical revision you describe makes perfect sense. The twist with the hand might reflect a purely pragmatic decision based on the target: do you want the striking surface to be the wristbone? Then rotate the forearm so the closed palm is facing your face as you administer the `block'. Do you want the strike to be more with the fleshy inside part of the forearm? Then keep the thumb facing the face.

Yes, I always understood the concept of a block also being a strike. I guess I sort of figured you could just use the same motion in striking a target, rather than blocking an attack, such as delivering a hammerfist to the side of his head with the motion of an inward block. But by changing the form and path of the block as he instructed me to do, made the "striking" aspect of the block much more clear, and much more effective.

The block itself, also is a painful strike at the same time. It's not an "either-or" thing, but rather at the same time you effectively block his punch, you are hurting his arm. It's not a matter of thinking that "well, I can use this motion as an inward block, but as an alternative I can use the same motion to hammerfist the side of his head."

And he feels that always striking with the blade of the bone is better. It hurts the opponent, and if you turn your forearm and block with the fleshy part of the arm you can hurt yourself and your power is reduced. My impression is that it is a choice he would advise against making. Keep it on the blade of the bone.

It sounds like you may have switched the distinction, based on your last two sentences above. By having the palm facing your face, either you are blocking across your torso and are reducing the effective "striking" benefit of the block, or else you are blocking with the fleshy back of the forearm. By having your thumb facing your face, your are striking more foreward and are blocking with the blade of the forearm. Makes for an effective block, and hurts the badguy. This is not a strike with the wristbone, but rather the blade of the bone in the forearm, an inch or two down from the wristbone.

Please send us technical updates as you go—this sort of info is one of the main reasons MT is such a terrific site! Thanks very much for the light shed on this basic technique.

Will do, I expect to be somewhat overwhelmed for a while, but when something especially juicy comes to the surface I will definitely share.

Just a couple of thoughts on blocking....
We often teach beginners to block at 90 degree angle (palm toward body), because it really drives home the concept of how the arm sweeps through zones. I find that if I teach blocking at 45 degree angles (thumb toward face), the sloppy students don't sweep through zones enough, or the really sloppy ones look like they are punching. Once they earn their orange we will go back and modify those angles, so they have them "fixed" for purple. This also happens to tie in nicely with the Short/Long 2 forms where initiation off of these blocks becomes important.

We have always done our inward blocks as a "hammering" block, unlike many AK guys who do it from the point of origin of their hip in a straight line.

Lamont

...do it from the point of origin of their hip in a straight line.

Lamont

Could you describe in a bit more detail what you mean, by this? thx.

I've always felt, instinctively, that the inward block is a strike, probably to targets on the attacker's forcibly lowered head. So this technical revision you describe makes perfect sense. The twist with the hand might reflect a purely pragmatic decision based on the target: do you want the striking surface to be the wristbone? Then rotate the forearm so the closed palm is facing your face as you administer the `block'. Do you want the strike to be more with the fleshy inside part of the forearm? Then keep the thumb facing the face.

And he feels that always striking with the blade of the bone is better. It hurts the opponent, and if you turn your forearm and block with the fleshy part of the arm you can hurt yourself and your power is reduced. My impression is that it is a choice he would advise against making. Keep it on the blade of the bone.

It sounds like you may have switched the distinction, based on your last two sentences above. By having the palm facing your face, either you are blocking across your torso and are reducing the effective "striking" benefit of the block, or else you are blocking with the fleshy back of the forearm. By having your thumb facing your face, your are striking more foreward and are blocking with the blade of the forearm. Makes for an effective block, and hurts the badguy. This is not a strike with the wristbone, but rather the blade of the bone in the forearm, an inch or two down from the wristbone.

OK, I think the problem was that I was picturing the palm-facing-face as a movement across the torso. And I also had in back of my mind that mantra one sometimes hears, about striking a hard target with a soft surface and a soft target with a hard surface. But it's true that unlike the palm-heel, using the fleshy part of the arm isn't going to be like slamming a thick pad of well-protected muscle into a hard but vulnerable target (such as phs to the jaw) . Went back and reread your description of the new kind of inward block you're learning in connection with these latest comments of yours and think I can now picture what you're doing a bit more accurately.

Please send us technical updates as you go—this sort of info is one of the main reasons MT is such a terrific site! Thanks very much for the light shed on this basic technique.

Will do, I expect to be somewhat overwhelmed for a while, but when something especially juicy comes to the surface I will definitely share.

Thanks very much, Michael—anything about refinement of basic technique is bound to be of great interest, to a lot of people on the board, I'd guess. :asian:

Could you describe in a bit more detail what you mean, by this? thx.

Sure, ok, you are in a horse stance and have (for some reason) your hand chambered at your hip, many AKers hand will travel in a straight line between the hip and the end point of the block, because many believe that doing otherwide violates the Point of Origin concept.

In a hammering inward block, the same hand would travel in an arc, so that your hand winds up travelling in in a downward motion into the block.

this is worth of a viewing, Mr. Parker on blocks:
TFOQLblqRw0

Most of the demonstration is a basic from a high reference point, so it doesn't match what I said above, but it is good to see.

this is worth of a viewing, Mr. Parker on blocks:


Interesting... but I suspect Hee Il Cho or Chuck Norris might differ with Mr. Parker on the effectiveness of KMA blocks (i.e., strikes which are labelled `blocks')... :wink1:

Sure, ok, you are in a horse stance and have (for some reason) your hand chambered at your hip, many AKers hand will travel in a straight line between the hip and the end point of the block, because many believe that doing otherwide violates the Point of Origin concept.

In a hammering inward block, the same hand would travel in an arc, so that your hand winds up travelling in in a downward motion into the block.

this is worth of a viewing, Mr. Parker on blocks:
TFOQLblqRw0

Most of the demonstration is a basic from a high reference point, so it doesn't match what I said above, but it is good to see.

OK, I didn't have time at the moment to view the entire video (i'm at work, of course), but I see what you are saying from your description.

Actually, this wasn't discussed the other night, but my impression is that it could still work from a hip point of origin. Basically the block just fires from wherever the hand happens to be. I don't think there necessarily needs to be a big windup, and the motion may be somewhat less like swinging a hammer. I think the crucial points are that the blocking arm is travelling outward at about a 45 degree angle rather than straight across your own torso, to intercept and impact the incoming attack; and the blade of the forearm is used in making impact, with the thumb facing back toward your face.

Of course I could be wrong about this, but it seems like it would work...

When we first teach the inward block, the fist is next to the ear, with the palm facing forward. The arm will rotate as the block comes across, with the palm facing inward at the finish. This is for all the reasons you've mentioned plus the twist creates a small amount of torque and provides a little more power to the block.

Think of the inward block as a hammerfist at the inbound puch, striking with the inside of the forearm about 1.5-2" below the wristbone, at no more than a 45 degree angle (I prefer 30 degrees), while stepping into a fighting horse for maximum hip rotation. It begins by cocking the fist by your ear with your palm facing your attacker and (as you shift into the fighting stance) it extends out rotating clockwise until your palm faces you. The primary target is your opponent's radial nerve.

I had my third class with Mr. Sumner's group last night. I am enjoying it a lot, I think he and his assistant instructor are very good teachers and I am quite happy at this point that I decided to study with him.

He is making me wear my black belt. I was hoping to fly under the radar with a white belt again, but it's not to be. So there are 3 or 4 brown belts in the group, people who have studied with him for several years, and suddenly I show up and outrank them. I hate having attention drawn to myself. Oh well. They have all been very friendly, and I am grateful for that. Seems like a good group of people.

My poor wife has some big, nasty bruises on her forearms from the defensive drills we practiced last night. I'm giving her some Dit Da Jow, and having her ice them, she's OK and is being a trooper about it, but they are pretty ugly. So far she is enjoying the training, I think it is too early for her to develop a strong opinion just yet, but she is willing to keep it up.

I had my third class with Mr. Sumner's group last night. I am enjoying it a lot, I think he and his assistant instructor are very good teachers and I am quite happy at this point that I decided to study with him.

He is making me wear my black belt. I was hoping to fly under the radar with a white belt again, but it's not to be. So there are 3 or 4 brown belts in the group, people who have studied with him for several years, and suddenly I show up and outrank them. I hate having attention drawn to myself. Oh well. They have all been very friendly, and I am grateful for that. Seems like a good group of people.

My poor wife has some big, nasty bruises on her forearms from the defensive drills we practiced last night. I'm giving her some Dit Da Jow, and having her ice them, she's OK and is being a trooper about it, but they are pretty ugly. So far she is enjoying the training, I think it is too early for her to develop a strong opinion just yet, but she is willing to keep it up.

Sorry to hear about your wife and I understand a bit about the wanting to fly under the radar but all in all it sounds good.

I am glad to hear you are enjoying it.

I had my third class with Mr. Sumner's group last night. I am enjoying it a lot, I think he and his assistant instructor are very good teachers and I am quite happy at this point that I decided to study with him.

He is making me wear my black belt. I was hoping to fly under the radar with a white belt again, but it's not to be. So there are 3 or 4 brown belts in the group, people who have studied with him for several years, and suddenly I show up and outrank them. I hate having attention drawn to myself. Oh well. They have all been very friendly, and I am grateful for that. Seems like a good group of people.

My poor wife has some big, nasty bruises on her forearms from the defensive drills we practiced last night. I'm giving her some Dit Da Jow, and having her ice them, she's OK and is being a trooper about it, but they are pretty ugly. So far she is enjoying the training, I think it is too early for her to develop a strong opinion just yet, but she is willing to keep it up.
If your worthy of wearing a black belt then you should. It appears that Mr. Sumner feels you are and I think that's what matters. I'm sure you'll do great and earn the respect of your fellow students. Good luck.

He is making me wear my black belt. I was hoping to fly under the radar with a white belt again, but it's not to be.

Yeah, funny thing about that. I did that once. It is easy to slip into the mindset of "this is easy white belt stuff, and I'm really a black, so I'll just take it easy for a while until we get to "my level."" You work "back up to your level."

Now, I'm not at all suggesting that this would be your mindset, especially given the effort you are putting in just to be there, but wearing the black belt puts a heap of responsibility on you. This way, you don't get to "work back up to your level." You are starting there! It's a new school to you, so although you are not expected to be a Tracy's/Ted Sumner black belt, you have to be one in every other aspect.

You have to train a little harder, show a little more respect, and, with humility, you have to represent everything that went into that belt around your waist.

Once you're in the club, you're in the club.

I had my third class with Mr. Sumner's group last night. I am enjoying it a lot, I think he and his assistant instructor are very good teachers and I am quite happy at this point that I decided to study with him.

He is making me wear my black belt. I was hoping to fly under the radar with a white belt again, but it's not to be. So there are 3 or 4 brown belts in the group, people who have studied with him for several years, and suddenly I show up and outrank them. I hate having attention drawn to myself. Oh well. They have all been very friendly, and I am grateful for that. Seems like a good group of people.

My poor wife has some big, nasty bruises on her forearms from the defensive drills we practiced last night. I'm giving her some Dit Da Jow, and having her ice them, she's OK and is being a trooper about it, but they are pretty ugly. So far she is enjoying the training, I think it is too early for her to develop a strong opinion just yet, but she is willing to keep it up.

Nothing like a little pressure, huh? :) I'm sure you move better than you give yourself credit for.

Sorry to hear about your wife. I'm sure she'll find some way to pay your back...

Yeah, funny thing about that. I did that once. It is easy to slip into the mindset of "this is easy white belt stuff, and I'm really a black, so I'll just take it easy for a while until we get to "my level."" You work "back up to your level."

Now, I'm not at all suggesting that this would be your mindset, especially given the effort you are putting in just to be there, but wearing the black belt puts a heap of responsibility on you. This way, you don't get to "work back up to your level." You are starting there! It's a new school to you, so although you are not expected to be a Tracy's/Ted Sumner black belt, you have to be one in every other aspect.

You have to train a little harder, show a little more respect, and, with humility, you have to represent everything that went into that belt around your waist.

Once you're in the club, you're in the club.

Yeah, I know, I know. It's sometimes a tough club to be in.

Here's the truth of the matter. I earned my blackbelt at the green young age of 16, and in a fairly quick amount of time compared to others. My instructors felt it was appropriate, and felt I was ready for it, and at that time I did too.

In retrospect, I have sometimes questioned that decision. Was I too young? Was it too fast? I don't really know, and I don't mean to cast my instructors in a poor light because they are good people and gave me what they had and I have tremendous respect for them.

But I sometimes wonder if there was a lot to learn that I might have missed. So when I decided to take classes with Mr. Sumner, I was excited that he is held in such high regard in the Tracy world, and he is someone who REALLY REALLY knows the stuff, and i can see that is true even after just three classes with his group. Ted is tremendous, over and above others who deserve a lot of respect as good and talented kenpoists and instructors in their own right. I can see why he is really a teacher of teachers.

I was excited by this prospect that I had a chance to retread and retrain and start over and fill in any of the holes that might be in my earlier training. So I really felt (feel) like I am starting over, and that is also how he is teaching me, so it's exactly what I was hoping for. Along with this, in my own head I felt like I was willing to put my blackbelt aside until I retrained, and maybe was more deserving of it. That is why I put on a new white belt, and he called me out on it (good naturedly of course), so I put on the old black.

So that is the mental and emotional process that I have been going thru with regard to this.

Granted, in the last 18 years or so I have trained with some wonderful teachers in other arts. I guess I feel that given my range of training I kind of made up for any deficiencies and perhaps deserve the rank in a more abstract way. But I wanted to make sure my kenpo is strong, so that my rank that I hold IN KENPO, is deserved, regardless of any accomplishments I have in other arts.

So there ya go.

Thanks everyone for your support and good thoughts on this. I am really enjoying the whole thing.

I definitely understand your position. But I will tell you this...if there are any gaps in your training, Ted will find them and fill them in. He is one of those rare individuals (a teacher of teachers, as you say) who is less concerned about the stripes on your belt than he is with whether or not know the material.

In other words, he will be as thorough with you as if you did wear the white belt, but will expect more from you because of the black. And rightfully so. And because you have to wear it, you now have to expect more from yourself. Basically, you guys have double teamed the learning curve of getting you "up to speed" so to speak, by front loading it.

So, how goes it? Have you run across Rick and Kathy Nelson yet?

So, how goes it? Have you run across Rick and Kathy Nelson yet?


Hi Dave,

It goes well, I've worked thru Yellow and Orange so far, and kata short and long 1 and 2, and short 3. Definitely different from how I did it in the past, and I am seeing things that I didn't know before. Feeling better about much of it. Yellow was all new to me anyway, it wasnt' part of the curriculum when I went thru it. I like training with Ted, he's a good guy, I like his approach and attitude, and the other students are good people too. The drive is a pain in the rear, in commute traffic, but it usually only takes an hour or so to get there. It's just an irritating hour, that's all.

I haven't met Rick or Kathy Nelson. What is their position with Ted? Students of his? Are they off teaching elsewhere?

Michael I am so psyched you are back into things. Good for you!

My wife tested for, and passed her yellow belt test this evening. WOO HOOO! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

On the drive home, she even suggested that maybe sometimes we could drive down twice a week, and train some more. I didn't want to push that issue earlier, and make her feel like it was becoming a burden, but I had been thinking that a bit myself. But now she mentioned that she might like to do it, so it's good!

My wife tested for, and passed her yellow belt test this evening. WOO HOOO! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

On the drive home, she even suggested that maybe sometimes we could drive down twice a week, and train some more. I didn't want to push that issue earlier, and make her feel like it was becoming a burden, but I had been thinking that a bit myself. But now she mentioned that she might like to do it, so it's good!

That's great! It's nice to have not just by in, but participation from your spouse.

Glad to hear it. Rick and Kathy started under me many, many years ago, continued under my instructor when I moved to open my school, then Rick got relocated to San Jose with IBM. Last I heard, they were training with Ted.

Rick was at the seniors seminar at San Jose last April.

I met Rick and Kathy at Mr Tracy's school in KY many years ago. We learned the Tiger and Crane together (I'd already known 2 versions of it). As a sidenote, Mr Tracy taught us to use the "eye of the phoenix" (4 strikes before the spins) rather than the crane's beak which is done on the K22.--just something different.

Jim

My wife tested for, and passed her yellow belt test this evening. WOO HOOO! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

On the drive home, she even suggested that maybe sometimes we could drive down twice a week, and train some more. I didn't want to push that issue earlier, and make her feel like it was becoming a burden, but I had been thinking that a bit myself. But now she mentioned that she might like to do it, so it's good!

That's great, Congratulations

Now she is hooked and you got it made.