How do I get aggressive?

[bookworm_cn317]

How do I get more aggressive in Tae kwon do?
I have a huge problem with being aggressive in class; like, not being aggressive. I'm so used to being quiet & shy in my normal life it kind of leaks over into class. So, I need help!

[Kacey]

Are you talking about sparring, or something more general?

The best way to become more aggressive is to be certain of your technique - if you know what you're doing, and are confident in your skills, then you can become more aggressive because you will be more certain of what you're doing.

Also, talk to somoene in your class you could practice with - someone who will let you take the lead in a safer situation where you know exactly what is going to happen, and then work your way out from there.

Good luck!

[exile]

How do I get more aggressive in Tae kwon do?
I have a huge problem with being aggressive in class; like, not being aggressive. I'm so used to being quiet & shy in my normal life it kind of leaks over into class. So, I need help!

Is your lack of aggressiveness based (to some degree, at least) on your fear that you may hurt your training partner, or if not hurt, then at least `impose on them' to some degree? Or is it the case that the lack of aggressiveness you're referring to involves execution of techniques that aren't necessarily involved in 1-to-1 training---like, do you only kick half-heartedly when you're working on kicking drills, that sort of thing?

It would help to have a bit more detail on just how this lack of aggressiveness manifests itself...

[searcher]

Make sure you are not confusing aggression and anger. They are two diffwerent things and should be looked at seperately.


Which are we talking about?

[Brad Dunne]

To a very large degree, being aggressive is a trait that folks are born with. That's not to say that it can't be learned, but that would also include some modification to your inner self, which can only be accomplished by you. Now I'm assuming your trying to be more aggressive within the confines of your TKD sparring and that will come, believe it or not, with continued contact. If you continue with your training/sparring, you will get tired of being hit. You will encounter some anger, which in turn, will/should transpose itself into controlled aggression. I have seen it numerous times, from many students. The key factor here is "continued training" and not getting over frustrated and quiting. You will find yourself taking the fight to the other person and you won't even realize that you are doing it.

[CuongNhuka]

OMG!!!! I have a story (those who know me are now allowed to roll there eyes and say "when doesn't the loser have a story").
So the big ugly kid, who has almost always been bigger and stronger then his classmates, is the same way. I'd be that kid sitting in the back, not talking, just hoping to be ignored. I started doing karate in 6th grade and by eigth I was just anouther outgoing kid. When I did kata, I would redo a move a thousand times if needed to do a technique right. From doing this I became able to learn techniques with ease. I can, to degrees, learn very advanced level moves from haveing them done to me once or twice in a sparring match. I also became able to come with a unique counter to any strategy through my way.
But I still did poorly in sparring. I retreated alot, bent away, looked away, and anything else you think of, and then some. Now I'm in 11th grade, and I'm just now getting over it. I fought like a shy kid for a few reasons. Partly out of fear of getting hurt myself, partly out of fear of hurting my opponent, partly out of still being shy and very none-confrentational. It was a month ago I took a giant step forward, and started to truelly push forward.
The first step, drill techniques, combanations, and kata that don't have retreating components. (builds muscle memory)
If that fails, after every match do 5 push ups for every time you did something bad. (negitive reinforcement)
If that fails, take your self out for a treat every time you do well. (positive reinforcement)
If that fails, just attack. When the match begins, drive forward. Don't let your opponent breath, don't let them think, just keep attacking until the match is over and you are pulled off your opponent. (desperation)

But don't just try these out once or twice. Try it over a period of two or three months. Or even in combination. (the first and fourth work well together)

After a long enough amount of time, any problems you have built up will work them selves out. Good luck, and you know what, the shy kids are the power behind the king. :asian:

[exile]

just attack. When the match begins, drive forward. Don't let your opponent breath, don't let them think, just keep attacking until the match is over and you are pulled off your opponent. (desperation)

This point is maybe the most important of all. A lot of times relentlessness will defeat your opponent where cleverness and elegant technique get nowhere. You're not just targetting your opponents' limbs, but their minds as well---that's often where the match is won or lost.

[MA-Caver]

I'm sorry, but when I read the topic, my mind immediately went to the movie "Cool Runnings" and that scene where Yul Brynner is giving Junior a pep talk, telling him to "look in the mirror, what do you see?" ...."Junior?" ... "No Mon! I see Pride! I see Power! I see one bad mother that don't take **** from nobody!" .... "you really see all that?" .... "Ya mon! Now tell yourself the same thing!"

Funny scene to be sure but it is true in one sense and one method to gain aggressiveness in yourself. It can only come from within!


Of course this isn't to say to go into the Dojo's bathroom... psyche yourself up and come out starting a fight with everyone! :lol:

But simply, for aggression to be on the outside... it's got to come from the inside... same with being gentle and passive.

Oh, and CuongNhuka; what gives you the right to call yourself a "loser" ?? Even in a joking way? :asian:

[pstarr]

I think Brad Dunne hit it on the head. Make sure you're not confusing anger with aggressiveness. Aggressiveness is simply the willingness to take advantage of an opportunity when it is presented to you...

[silatman]

Testosterone pills, take enough of them and you will take on a charging bull elephant!

[searcher]

Testosterone pills, take enough of them and you will take on a charging bull elephant!


Funny you even bring that up. I used Andro for a short time and the only thing I seemed to get from it was a massive level of aggression. I started chasing cars and peeing on tires, so I quit.http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[CuongNhuka]

Exile - I know it works, but I got binked on the nose pretty hard a few times, so unless I'm not doing to well, I avoid doing it.

MA - caver - uhhh, nothing? I'm just being wierd but I probabaly shouldn't, I know

searcher - thats sick, funnny, but sick

[mijemi]

My Sensei told me that I was not aggressive enough and I guess I still struggle with it a little but I just try to focus on practising my techniques a lot at home and then being confident enough to apply them in class. Part of the problem is that I don't like that word (I think it is negative) - I don't think it is about aggression I really do think it's just a confidence thing. It was for me anyway. Good luck and just keep practising and it will pay off.

Shell.

[kempo-vjj]

I have somewhat the same problem, a little differerent though. I came from a school were we did not do much sparring. Its all self defense based, so someof it was at 1/2 and 3/4 speed, and it was specified moves. My new school I am a mid belt sparring with black belts. Are thing is do a specified entry, then the finish is up to us. I get get pounded into the mat. When it's my turn, I am not so aggressive. Some of it technique based problem that I have some confidence to build. I have hurt somebody in practice, but it wasnt from me screwing around, sometimes things happen, and I need to let them go. It a karate class right! Accidents will happen. So keep hanging in there, push yourself beyond your limitations, and eventually it will happen.

[charyuop]

I started Aikido around 3 weeks ago and I have to admit that I have/had the same problem. Since I was a kid I have never fought back other kids coz I was afraid of hurting people and that aspect is still with me.
A few classes ago I had to carry out a technique which to be successfull needed my hand to "push" on the chin (basically turning the head around) of the opponent (I leave out all tech temrs). It was not a punch, but still I didn't do the technique right not even once coz I really couldn't push on the chin afraid of hurting his neck.
The same was when I started punching the opponent. If the punch (slow or fast doesn't matter) is not meant to hit the target it has no purpose in training. In the beginning my punches would stop before the target or turning before reaching the target. Sensei sometimes didn't carry out technique and let himself hit just to see if I was meaning the punch.

Well I can tell you that this "fear" slowly disappears on its own. The more you practice the more you learn how to stop a punch if the opponent freezes or does the wrong movement (and it happens alot amongst us beginners). The more you learn and master the techniques the more you know what level of damage you could cause and the level of strength to use. The more you get to know your dojo mates, the more you learn to trust that they can take a fall in a way they don't get hurt.
My Sensei in one if the first classes told me that I will learn more as a Uke (the one who receives the technique) than as a Nage (the one carrying out the technique). He was absolutely right, when I receive the technique I learn what it actually feels on my body and the reaction it causes on me. I can see better why a certain angle won't work on me, while if that angle changes a bit it works perfectly.

My suggestion is give time to time. Martial Art is not only training a technique, but training our character as well...and they both take time.

[still learning]

Hello, Very few people can change themselves to be more aggressive in a short time. Your behavior is learn from the time you were born and the way you were raise. EXCEPT THIS IS THE WAY YOU WERE RAISE!

Now "How does one become more aggressive"! ...Simple....

First believe you are a excellant martial artist....train harder than anyone else...believe in your self..you are improving and getting better,stronger,faster everyday. Excerise and train everday..practice and practice harder....

This build confidence, lots of self-promotion of your self-esteem!

You fear factor will start to change..because you DO BELIEVE IN YOURSELF...

One day(It will take some time) ONE DAY ,you will wake up a different person...CONFIDENT...very sure of yourself....FEARLESS (in a way)...

In this case '"aggressive' is more of a confidence thing here...TAKE THE CHALLENGE AND GO FOR IT!

Start right now! ....run and run some more....Aloha (from a passive person)...I need to run too....

[huntly_kickboxing]

How do I get more aggressive in Tae kwon do?
I have a huge problem with being aggressive in class; like, not being aggressive. I'm so used to being quiet & shy in my normal life it kind of leaks over into class. So, I need help!

Hi stop listening to wham (Last Christmas) and try something a little bit harder like Metallica. Start conditioning your body, hit the heavy bag hard and hand pads harder. Condtion your body and mind for impact, with the trusty medicine ball. Practice saying NO!!!, a harder body makes a harder Mind. get to the gym and push some heavy weights with a partner once a week ,run up stairs till you cant go another step. Push your mind thru the fear barrier and soar like the eagle that u are!!!!

[bujuts]

Think of what is most valuable to you in your life - children, family, spouse - whatever, and mentally put them in mortal jeapordy in the hands of another person. Something should rise from inside you, that should be your true source of the engaged mindset, the predatory instinct for survival.

All else is just getting amp'd for a game. In terms of true peace protection, put it in terms of life and death, and you will find that mindset. If a person has no foundation for life, no value for all that we as humans hold dear, then their martial path is nothing more than an aesthetic or sportive pastime.

To put it in context, ask a parent (especially a mother with a small child) what stirs inside of her if someone were to mortally threaten her cub(s). That is the mindset you're after. Each person must find what stirs that level their own human psyche, and it is that we must practice bringing to the surface.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

[Marginal]

How do I get more aggressive in Tae kwon do?
I have a huge problem with being aggressive in class; like, not being aggressive. I'm so used to being quiet & shy in my normal life it kind of leaks over into class. So, I need help!

In sparring, it helps to keep in mind that the better you do, the better your partner has to do as well. Giving it your best does all involved a favor.

[exile]

In sparring, it helps to keep in mind that the better you do, the better your partner has to do as well. Giving it your best does all involved a favor.

Exactly—it's no different from, say, tennis. If you use a so-so serve, your opponent will get it back relatively easily, and doesn't have to push his or her technical limits out even a little bit. Not only won't your servering improve, but your opponents' abilities to return services they get from other players won't either. A really hard, fast serve takes a lot of skill to return correctly, but if you want to play good tennis you're going to have to do that or yield the point every time your opponent serves... so firing your best serve at your opponent is best all 'round. Replace `serve' with `back kick' and you have the idea...

[ares]

You could try to imagine that your training partner is actually attacking you. What would you do? In an actual situation, would you let this would-be attacker smack you around? or would you dismantle him/her? Do some role playing and that might help. Ares

[loren]

I'm not sure about tkd but if you where to marry my ex I bet it would help out greatly.

[Touch Of Death]

Hi stop listening to wham (Last Christmas) and try something a little bit harder like Metallica. Start conditioning your body, hit the heavy bag hard and hand pads harder. Condtion your body and mind for impact, with the trusty medicine ball. Practice saying NO!!!, a harder body makes a harder Mind. get to the gym and push some heavy weights with a partner once a week ,run up stairs till you cant go another step. Push your mind thru the fear barrier and soar like the eagle that u are!!!!If the account werent suspended I would negative rep this. The Nazzis listened to classical and they were pretty aggressive. Metalica is not an aggression key!!! sigh

[CuongNhuka]

I'm not sure about tkd but if you where to marry my ex I bet it would help out greatly.

:rofl:

[Infinite]

There is a lot of good advice here and some of it deals with agression vs anger.

So some background. I started life sparring against a 6'1 200+ solid block of muscle. He was VERY fast and very aggressive and I was a 5'10 120lbs of slightly quicker stocky kid.

I picked a goal I wouldn't even call it a goal I would call it a defined purpose. I would decide that this sparring practice I was at least going to do X.

At first X was not get hit he wasn't going to punch me. It wasn't going to happen I refuse to let it happen if it does happen I will try again and again and again and again until it doesn't happen.

That worked so well (against the same sparring partner day after day mind you) that he started calling me "The Wall". I then moved to my new goal in life / sparring. I think you will like this it was to touch him on the top of his head. I didn't want to hit him I just wanted to tap his head because it amused me. That he would be trying hard to hit me and I'd be responding with a light tap on the head.

I think if you haven't played sports this process of "psyching" up is harder to generate. You have to make it mean something to you I mean you really have to invest some self into it to get the type of reaction you are expecting.

The age old addage of, "Failure is not an option." is a powerful driving force. You just have to believe in it.

So too round out how I GET to that state of mind I follow this process.

First, start moving your body walk around move your arms back and forth.

Second, start to tell yourself even whisper if you have to, "I'm going to (insert personal goal here). There is no stopping me."

Third, start to get excited let it happen start to relize you WANT the challenge that is why you are there its to be tested and now you have the opportunity to prove to yourself what your made of.

Fourth, It may help to have a partner motivate you. Tell them your goal and have them stand by and tell you these things. Boxing has the addage, "Friend in your corner." this is what it comes from. The coach telling you, "You can do this you CAN do this I've seen you I believe in you."


Finally, keep it up keep telling yourself that your ready that this is what you want that you came here to do this and now its time to do it. Then picture it in your minds eye. Picture yourself being unblockable or moving so fast you can't be hit. This is a proven olympic strategy.

Hope that helps,
--Will

[CuongNhuka]

i gotta agree with you infinite. i'll try that tonight at my test.

[Hand Sword]

You've already started to help yourself. Noticing a weakness in yourself and accepting it is huge in the learning process. Now that you've done that, take the next step, and make the mind, body, and soul effort of applying it to the execution of your techniques. Start with the most basic movement, and go from there.

[shrek]

Take a public speaking course followed by a sales course...you'll believe that you are 6'tall, bulletproof and everyone in your class will suddenly have a Kirby Vaccuum cleaner... ;)

Ok, to be more serious, Infinite's right on the money...YOU have to believe in yourself and your skills. Setting a goal and sticking to it are key. Believing in yourself is a requirement. You've aleady taken your first step by entering into Matial Arts classes...and it honesty wouldn't hurt to listen to some tapes/read some books like Zig Ziglar's for some positive mental outlook.

[Hand Sword]

Thinking about the question further, I will say-You don't. It's something you are born with, or prone to. Sure, you could "develop it" through training. However, when it comes down to it, and real pressure is on, people revert to who they are. If you're passive, you're passive. It's not a bad thing. We are all who we are, nothing wrong with it. Trying to be aggrssive facing one who is naturally (type A personalities) won't work. We all read who is what when we meet them.

[RITFencing]

Thinking about the question further, I will say-You don't. It's something you are born with, or prone to. Sure, you could "develop it" through training. However, when it comes down to it, and real pressure is on, people revert to who they are. If you're passive, you're passive. It's not a bad thing. We are all who we are, nothing wrong with it. Trying to be aggrssive facing one who is naturally (type A personalities) won't work. We all read who is what when we meet them.

I respectfully disagree. Who we are now is not necessarily who we will be tomorrow. People can change, and can change themselves.

I have seen very aggressive people become more cautious, and I have seen just the opposite as well. As an instructor, I have helped affect the same change in many people.

Everyone has different reasons for being more or less aggressive in class, in life, what have you, but examining those reasons and motivations can show ways to change them, which will eventually lead to changes in behavior.

Failing that, there is always brute willpower... just force yourself to be aggressive. Attack more often in sparring. Practice your attacks. Train your body to act how you want it to act, and you will build confidence in it. When it starts to get positive results, then it will be easier and easier. Trust me on this. :)

[Hand Sword]

O.k.

http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

However, if dealing for real outside of the dojo and away from dojo experimentation, don't try to "front" too much-Trust ME on this!

[RITFencing]

O.k.

http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

However, if dealing for real outside of the dojo and away from dojo experimentation, don't try to "front" too much-Trust ME on this!

Sure, it's a different world. But the outside skills, reactions and confidence have to start somewhere, and that's in training. If you want a real world example of what I'm talking about, look at any competent military. They turn normal people into killers. Not to get political or beat around the bush, but that's a job central to soldiering. It can certainly be necessary.

Is the first time in a fight (or a battle, or whatever) terrifying? Yup. Absolutely. I don't think it ever becomes something people are comfortable with. But that training can and will take over. You just have to work hard at changing the default reaction of someone from "shrink in terror" to "wristlock" or "pull trigger" or whatever. It's not easy, but it can be done, and it happens all the time.

[MBuzzy]

Sure, it's a different world. But the outside skills, reactions and confidence have to start somewhere, and that's in training. If you want a real world example of what I'm talking about, look at any competent military. They turn normal people into killers. Not to get political or beat around the bush, but that's a job central to soldiering. It can certainly be necessary.

Is the first time in a fight (or a battle, or whatever) terrifying? Yup. Absolutely. I don't think it ever becomes something people are comfortable with. But that training can and will take over. You just have to work hard at changing the default reaction of someone from "shrink in terror" to "wristlock" or "pull trigger" or whatever. It's not easy, but it can be done, and it happens all the time.

You're exactly right....You would be surprised how "comfortable" a combat simulation can make you toward the real thing. If you have enough Ground Burst Simulators go off near you, M50s fire over your head, and do enough training convoys (the more realistic the better)....the real thing becomes just another drill after a while. Even in fire fights, the first time is terrifying, correct, but after a while, you react instinctively.

Practise a wrist lock enough times and when you have to do it....you don't think about it.

[Hand Sword]

O.k.

[qi-tah]

Some great suggestions here, have to agree with all that's been said about visualisation techniques and extra conditioning in the basics etc... in addition, i would suggest just lightening up about the whole issue. No-one is in class to get killed, and hopefully it's an activity everyone finds fun, otherwise why do it? Treat it like the game it is. Chat to yr sparring partners and ask them to rev you up a bit maybe. Experiment with different sparring "games" - tagging different areas on the body, one person blocking only, footwork games etc. When you start to have fun, aggressiveness becomes a non-issue IMHO. Also, i tend to find that aggressiveness takes away from skill a little - and speaking personally, i find control and clear-mindedness more useful in a potentially violent situation than aggressive behaviour. Just my opinion.

[Hand Sword]

You're all correct. however, you've changed the argument. The last examples posted are actions taken in self defense. That is a response to aggressiveness. I never claimed anyone wouldn't take actions (what you are arguing as aggressive) to fight back against a perceived threat. However, aggressiveness is another argument. You might get mean if hit or grabbed. You'll attempt the wristlock, shoot, etc.. But, it's a whole nother thing to just shoot, or punch someone in the face. If it's not in you, then it's not you. You can't train for that. Sure, with training, people get confidence. But, how far does the "aggressively trained" person get when they are at odds in an aggressive match with one who is of that personality naturally? Not very far!

[RITFencing]

You're all correct. however, you've changed the argument. The last examples posted are actions taken in self defense. That is a response to aggressiveness. I never claimed anyone wouldn't take actions (what you are arguing as aggressive) to fight back against a perceived threat. However, aggressiveness is another argument. You might get mean if hit or grabbed. You'll attempt the wristlock, shoot, etc.. But, it's a whole nother thing to just shoot, or punch someone in the face. If it's not in you, then it's not you. You can't train for that. Sure, with training, people get confidence. But, how far does the "aggressively trained" person get when they are at odds in an aggressive match with one who is of that personality naturally? Not very far!

I think I see what you mean here, but I think that this, too, can be trained. It's not as pretty, but it can be done.

Personalities aren't set in stone. Surely you must know someone who has changed their personality, either because of very large events in their lives, or just gradually over time?

[Hand Sword]

I think I see what you mean here, but I think that this, too, can be trained. It's not as pretty, but it can be done.

Personalities aren't set in stone. Surely you must know someone who has changed their personality, either because of very large events in their lives, or just gradually over time?


Training it in means instilling it artificially. Anything "aggressive" on their part comes because a stimuli or perceived one prompted that response. That's not just doing it. Following a plan for business or something isn't the same. Talking passive's into something, isn't the same as aggressive's making you do something.

As for the last part, you're personality is formed by the time you're two. Type A's , INT's, etc.. are who they are. Sure I've known some that have "changed" due to traumatic life experiences, training, etc... At least in everyday life. However, In situations that come up, every so often, who they are comes out.

Being agrressive for aggressive sake is harder than most people, trained or otherwise might imagine. (especially if they've never done it for real)

[Hand Sword]

To prevent this bickering to continue I'll leave my view at this: Training for it, or trying to aquire it-is not it.

You don't train to be aggresseive, you hone what's there already.

[kaizasosei]

being aggressive can be great for power and motivation but for control and strategy it is very bad. when aggressive, your heartrate increases too much, get tired faster. one is physically impaired to the point of having tension in various areas of the body. one tends to focus too much on one goal as opposed to acting correctly.
although it is probably impossible for any mortal to escape becoming aggressive at some point, and it can be a very effective method of communicating, it shows that one is shocked. if one could act aggressive to a point would be better(if that's possible)-otherwise, i'm trying not to get aggressive.
there are also many types of aggression(hate,fear,desperation) and many ways how it is expressed.

j

[Cirdan]

there are also many types of aggression(hate,fear,desperation) and many ways how it is expressed.



hmm no that would be anger, not aggression

[Shaderon]

In Psychology studies it has been found that aggression is a thing that you are born with, it's an inbuilt thing which is determined by your genetics and very early childhood. BUT, it is influenced by your environment and your self will to increase or decrease it. It's difficult to change the early conditioning, but it's possible and with work it can be done.

So the techniques for increasing it can be done but my question is why do you want to do it? If you increase your agression it can be a hard thing to tame, people who are born with a high level of aggression learn over the years how to control it and keep it under wraps.... (or don't) but if you learn aggression then it can be harder and it can rear it's ugly head when you least expect it... e.g. have you heard of revved up ring fighters hitting thier spouses?

My opinion is, don't increase your aggression, just increase your knowledge and ability of your techniques and become an ice cold fighter. No one knows what to expect from that sort and they can't be ruffled. You don't need to increase aggression, just confidence.

[Kacey]

My opinion is, don't increase your aggression, just increase your knowledge and ability of your techniques and become an ice cold fighter. No one knows what to expect from that sort and they can't be ruffled. You don't need to increase aggression, just confidence.

I agree with Shaderon - especially the part I bolded. It's much harder to be aggressive - in an MA environment or out of it - when you are using skills you are not sure of; improving your skills, in all of the ways discussed throughout this thread, is the best way to improve your confidence, which will, in turn, improve your willingness to use those skills, and to take the risk of trying new skills in a high-risk situation.

[kidswarrior]

This point is maybe the most important of all. A lot of times relentlessness will defeat your opponent where cleverness and elegant technique get nowhere. You're not just targetting your opponents' limbs, but their minds as well---that's often where the match is won or lost.
Yes, this is why many savvy street fighters in my area often believe they can prevail over martial artists (not my guys--they don't fight on the street anymore :ultracool). And too often they're right.

[kidswarrior]

I agree with Shaderon - especially the part I bolded. It's much harder to be aggressive - in an MA environment or out of it - when you are using skills you are not sure of; improving your skills, in all of the ways discussed throughout this thread, is the best way to improve your confidence, which will, in turn, improve your willingness to use those skills, and to take the risk of trying new skills in a high-risk situation.
Can I jump on the band wagon and agree with both Shads and Kacey? :)

[Em MacIntosh]

When we were kids a lot of our kiais sounded like peeps. It takes some of us a lot of practice to kiai. You just weren't allowed to be shy or they pick on you until you lose your shyness. This worked for the kids but I wonder if it would work for adults. It might be worth considering.

[RITFencing]

This isn't an aggression thing, but rather a confidence one, but I find that it works well. When I have students, especially kids, they're not allowed to be quiet when I ask them something. They're not allowed to whisper the answer, they can't just not or shake their head, they have to tell me in a clear voice. They're also not allowed to sit down unless specifically told to, keep their hands out of their pockets, etc. We also don't tolerate passive aggressive behavior in any form, even the little things like eye rolls. I also make sure to ask them questions about what we are doing, and make sure any questions they have for me are loud enough for everyone to hear. It may sound nitpicky at first, especially to the student who just nodded their head, was told that they have to say the word "yes," then mumbles it, and was told they have to say it louder, but small changes lead to big ones (by the way, I highly recommend a book called The Tipping Point, by Malcolm Gladwell) and these help force the kids to be active and involved in what the class is doing, and pretty soon they become second nature and the kids are having fun and being much, much more confident in the class. A tiny bit of discipline goes a long way.

[Hand Sword]

This isn't an aggression thing, but rather a confidence one, but I find that it works well. When I have students, especially kids, they're not allowed to be quiet when I ask them something. They're not allowed to whisper the answer, they can't just not or shake their head, they have to tell me in a clear voice. They're also not allowed to sit down unless specifically told to, keep their hands out of their pockets, etc. We also don't tolerate passive aggressive behavior in any form, even the little things like eye rolls. I also make sure to ask them questions about what we are doing, and make sure any questions they have for me are loud enough for everyone to hear. It may sound nitpicky at first, especially to the student who just nodded their head, was told that they have to say the word "yes," then mumbles it, and was told they have to say it louder, but small changes lead to big ones (by the way, I highly recommend a book called The Tipping Point, by Malcolm Gladwell) and these help force the kids to be active and involved in what the class is doing, and pretty soon they become second nature and the kids are having fun and being much, much more confident in the class. A tiny bit of discipline goes a long way.

http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now that's aggression. If asked, I wonder what their point of view about this would be? http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ryokeen]

I think this issue has been beaten to death, but I'll offer my spin just because I know this person isn't the only one struggling with this.

I myself have yet to fully allow myself to be aggressive, because when I do, bad things typically happen. Not to say that I'm great or anything, only to say that typically I feel more confident and controlled when I'm sparring someone with less skill then myself... Because I have more confidence in my technique over theres.. Now, what I've begun to realize is that IF someone is hurt, they CHOSE to be in class, and they're accepting the fact that they may aquire bruises, sprains and possibly breaks... It's part of training. And while that seems mean, it's not..

As Jason, my instructor put it, You're doing them a FAVOR by hitting them, so that they learn what they need to work on so that same thing doesn't happen again.

Try to look at it like that.

And if it's a skill worry, don't worry... we were all new, and still are new.
From White Belt to Higher Black belts... We're all still students. We're all still learning. We all still make mistakes.. So don't worry about it.

Good luck.

[Hand Sword]

Very good post! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[RITFencing]

http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now that's aggression. If asked, I wonder what their point of view about this would be? http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Since they generally come to me first when they have a problem (like a stomach ache or whatever) and keep laughing during the games I have them play, and always talk to me before and after class, I'd say their viewpoint about this is that it's not so bad.

[Hand Sword]

That just means that you are the recognized authority figure. Everyone laughs during gameplay, so that means nothing. I meant asking them at the moment your "corrective actions" are occurring to them (That's what really counts when trying to determine aggression). I think they would disagree with your last posted thought.

[RITFencing]

That just means that you are the recognized authority figure. Everyone laughs during gameplay, so that means nothing. I meant asking them at the moment your "corrective actions" are occurring to them (That's what really counts when trying to determine aggression). I think they would disagree with your last posted thought.

No one likes getting corrected, but when it goes something like "Thomas, stand up, please," or "Emily, get back in line, please," or "David and Mike, stop hitting each other, please," they don't seem to have a huge problem. When that doesn't work, it becomes "Thomas, five push ups please, you know you're not supposed to be sitting down," or at the very worst "David and Mike, I told you to stop hitting each other, didn't I? David, please sit in that corner, Mike, please sit in the other corner, I'll tell you both when to come back. Thank you."

The key is to always address them by their names, be calm and polite about it (absolutely never lose your temper), explain very simply what the behavior they need to correct is, and if any punitive steps are taken, remind them that I was being very reasonable about it before.

Sure, they're not happy when they're sitting out or doing push ups, but if they continue to misbehave when asking them to change fails, then they leave me little recourse (and I make sure they know it.) Once their punishment is over, they don't really have a problem with me afterwards.

On the converse, I also make sure to reward good behavior with praise, early water breaks, extra time on games they really like, that sort of thing. I also make sure to tell them WHY they're getting a reward (i.e. "Since you all did that warm up so well, we're going to play an extra round of blob tag!")

This can also work to my advantage in ensuring a good work ethic ("If you guys do a really good job on these relay races, we'll all play red light/green light!")

Does this strike you as overly draconian or authoritarian for dealing with kids from 8-12?

[Hand Sword]

You give water breaks? We never got any back in the day. Instead it was enforced to never ask for water it was a sign of weakness. http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Seriously though, please relax. I'm not trying to upset you (honestly). It's just that it's hard communicating a point through words on a screen. No you're not being draconian. I never argued that, or disavowed anything you do for training. I agree with all of the methods and reasons given by you and everyone else. What I was trying to highlite is the topic of aggression and how people don't really see it when they think they do. Sometimes I use sarcasm to get it across (I'm a street punk at heart). Being on both ends of aggrression, I like to give to the conversation, and show that aggression is what it is, simple and plain. Anyone can call their actions what they want, and it's not bad (like your teaching) ultimately, but, it still is forced action and the feelings evoked on the other end at the moment it's being done are what they are. That's my only point.

Again I agree with your methods and feel that they are a good thing. It's lacking in this world. I just try to get people to really see both sides of the coin.

I don't drink, so I'll have a Pepsi, but, have a cold one on me! (before dealing with the rugrats-lol)

[RITFencing]

Fair enough, cheers. :)

And yeah, we do give water breaks. In fact, we enforce them. Fencing is a hot, sweaty activity, bodies lose a lot of water doing it, and people of all ages need to replenish that supply. Doing so regularly, before they're even thirsty (if you're thirsty, you are already dehydrated), gets them in that habit. In a large tournament, I personally will drink several gallons of water throughout the day to replace what I lose through sweat. :)

[Hand Sword]

I hear that! I never fenced (though I wanted to try) but the drenching was there for us too. I'm glad the hydration thing is applied now. Being on the other end also at one time, I prefer now a day's look toward it.

[RITFencing]

I hear that! I never fenced (though I wanted to try) but the drenching was there for us too. I'm glad the hydration thing is applied now. Being on the other end also at one time, I prefer now a day's look toward it.

Yeah, I've been on the other end of the no water break thing as well; I definitely prefer it this way. Besides, when I let them rest a bit, that means I can work them harder afterwards! *maniacal laughter*

If you'd like, I might be able to find a good club in your area. :)

[SKB]

First thing I beleive you should do is stop seeing the word aggressive as a "BAD" word. You can be aggressive and not turn into a monster!!! Aggression used to the right purpose is a good thing. If you become aggressive then do something 'stupid' or 'lose control' then what you did was lose control and/or did something stupid! At that point you were doing somthing besides being aggressive. Don't think of the feeling as bad it is just one of many humans have. Same as fear, lust, hate, or love. Learn to use it not be fearful of it.

[Hand Sword]

No one claimed it was "bad", at least from what I've read. However, From your view you're not a monster because you're benefitting from your aggression in some way. How about on the other end? Such as those on the receiving end of your aggression? If you are aggressive, then you are initiating a forceful action. Someone or something is on the receiving end of that. Monster might be a strong word in general, but, you can be sure the receivers won't be happy with your action of the moment.

[Em MacIntosh]

Aggression just means taking the initiative or beeing more likely to do so. To make the first move. To be outgoing. Aggressive people are more likely to talk to you on the street. More likely to complain if there's a problem.

[Shaderon]

ag·gres·sion [uh-gresh-uhn]

1. the action of a state in violating by force the rights of another state, particularly its territorial rights; an unprovoked offensive, attack, invasion, or the like: The army is prepared to stop any foreign aggression.
2. any offensive action, attack, or procedure; an inroad or encroachment: an aggression upon one's rights.
3. the practice of making assaults or attacks; offensive action in general.
4. Psychiatry. overt or suppressed hostility, either innate or resulting from continued frustration and directed outward or against oneself.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1605–15; < L aggressiōn- (s. of aggressiō), equiv. to aggress(us) (see aggress) + -iōn- -ion]


—Antonyms 1. peacefulness.


I think you are confusing aggression with confidence and being outgoing. Aggression is offensive and hostile.

[Em MacIntosh]

Wow! I'm gonna check my dictionary. Sorry. Gotta see that for myself.

[Em MacIntosh]

I've never been corrected on that. Aggression solely has to do with violence in one form or another. Hmmm. I guess asserting your rights isn't aggressive. Thanks Shads.

[Shaderon]

Welcome, I must admit I used to use the word in the context of pushing yourself forwards a bit, and I've heard it used by other people in that context too but it's not correct usage and on the net things can get a bit wooly and misunderstood if you don't use correct terms. :)

[SKB]

Here is a definition. I think some of the words used in this one give you a diffrent idea of what the word means or can be used for. I changed some of the fonts on a few key words, such as combative readiness, driving-initiative, strong-intent. I put the link at the bottom so you could find where I got it from.

Main Entry: ag·gres·sive http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?aggres03.wav=aggressive'))
Pronunciation: &-'gre-siv
Function: adjective
1 a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/aggression) <aggressive behavior> b : marked by combative readiness <an aggressive fighter>
2 a : marked by obtrusive energy b : marked by driving forceful energy or initiative : ENTERPRISING (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/enterprising) <an aggressive salesman>
3 : strong or emphatic in effect or intent <aggressive colors> <aggressive flavors>
4 : growing, developing, or spreading rapidly <aggressive bone tumors>
5 : more severe, intensive, or comprehensive than usual especially in dosage or extent <aggressive chemotherapy>
- ag·gres·sive·ly adverb
- ag·gres·sive·ness noun
- ag·gres·siv·i·ty http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?aggres04.wav=aggressivity')) /"a-"gre-'si-v&-tE/ noun
synonyms AGGRESSIVE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/aggressive), MILITANT (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/militant), ASSERTIVE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/assertive), SELF-ASSERTIVE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/self-assertive) mean obtrusively energetic especially in pursuing particular goals. AGGRESSIVE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/aggressive) implies a disposition to dominate often in disregard of others' rights or in determined and energetic pursuit of one's ends <was taught to be aggressive in his business dealings>. MILITANT (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/militant) also implies a fighting disposition but suggests not self-seeking but devotion to a cause, movement, or principle <militant protesters held a rally against racism>. ASSERTIVE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/assertive) suggests bold self-confidence in expression of opinion <the more assertive speakers dominated the forum>. SELF-ASSERTIVE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/self-assertive) connotes forwardness or brash self-confidence <a self-assertive young executive climbing the corporate ladder>.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/aggressive

[Sukerkin]

I was going to add my tuppence into this a while ago, asking the question, in essence, that is "Aggression" really a trait you want to cultivate?

I see, however, that the semantics are already starting to be sorted out, so any words I could put forth about focussing instead upon "confidence" and "steadiness" have become redundant :D.

[kaizasosei]

i think lots of people have gone off on a tangent on this one.
i believe bookworm was initially asking how not to be aggressive.

i believe that aggressive and hurtful actions stem from phychological hurt.
therefore, to be aggressive, you need only let the hurt into your heart.

however usefull or enlightening that may be, it is dangerous and thats why all martial arts teach to be non aggressive and completely defensive. i don't think it is impossible. also, it is possible to be gentle. for me, that denotes a great level of control and skill. there are greater challenges that kicking butt especially in controlled settings-where actually people are taking advantage of each other often with little respect.


j

[Hand Sword]

How do I get more aggressive in Tae kwon do?
I have a huge problem with being aggressive in class; like, not being aggressive. I'm so used to being quiet & shy in my normal life it kind of leaks over into class. So, I need help!


I agree! (I'll take responsibiliy. I restarted the thread after a while with my recent post) So, here is the original post of the thread for everyone! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Cirdan]

I would say being aggressive in this case implies seizing the initiative and being active rather than passive. All the psycho babble about hurt inside and the politically correct statements don`t really apply. Finding "the Tiger inside you" might be the single most important thing in the arts. How to do it? Train, train and train more. Punch the pads with all you got and shake the walls with your Kiai. Release!

[kaizasosei]

i can fully understand that, however, i still think there are better ways than true aggression.
i think i found the tiger within me when i was around 4 or 5...however, i was not able to use him for much good until i managed to make him human.

just trying to communicate. I'm as much a fighter as the next guy.
i love martial arts. i love the techniques. the perfection of winning and the truth of defeat.

but i don't like when people don't respect each other enough to have honour, even enemies. now that is a reason for me to get aggressive.
just cause i get aggressive doesn't mean i have to do anything at all but speed up my heart maybe act like a clown...
if i want to hurt someone, mess them up or embarass someone, do i really need to be aggressive? if i truly believe in myself and my actions, i think not.
letting the hurt of another into your heart for no reason or gain, is a sign of love(the most dangerous weapon on earth). but to be nonaggressive and still get your actions and message across, thats something amazing.




j

[bookworm_cn317]

i think lots of people have gone off on a tangent on this one.
i believe bookworm was initially asking how not to be aggressive.

i believe that aggressive and hurtful actions stem from phychological hurt.
therefore, to be aggressive, you need only let the hurt into your heart.

however usefull or enlightening that may be, it is dangerous and thats why all martial arts teach to be non aggressive and completely defensive. i don't think it is impossible. also, it is possible to be gentle. for me, that denotes a great level of control and skill. there are greater challenges that kicking butt especially in controlled settings-where actually people are taking advantage of each other often with little respect.


j

um, actually, the problem is I'm not aggressive enough in class. The question is: How do I get aggressive in class? Like, in sparring, doing poomse, etc.

[Sukerkin]

Hi bookworm

I'll return to what I said above i.e. I don't think that aggression is a trait that you want to inculcate in yourself (assuming that we mean the same thing when we speak of 'aggression').

Calmness is the key to combat. That and Patience are the legs that techniques stand on.

Now of course, our arts are different but in full-contact sparring I very rarely did more than feign overt attacks with my sparring partner in order to invite stronger attacks from him. Once your opponent has committed to an action, assuming that it wasn't such a good and unanticipated move that it succeeds straight away, your own options are multiplied.

Aggression is a much vaunted emotion in martial arts but I think, as noted in several posts above, what people really mean by 'aggression' is not being timid, not flinching and executing your techniques pro-actively with strength and confidence when the openings present themselves.

[Marginal]

Shee... I can't imagine what the discussion would've turned to had the thread been titled "How do I get more offensive?" ;)

Context determines the usage, and in part, the definition of the term being used. (As usage is how definitions are derived in the first place) If you know what someone meant, why waste time arguing against an interpretation of meaning that has no relevance?

Back on topic,

Much of gaining initiative/getting aggressive is mental. If you're not confident in your abilities, (this by way of not thinking you're good enough, or simply thinking your opponent is superior and mentally giving them the edge that way) you're going to have a hard time getting off. Studies have shown that martial artists competing in tournaments etc tend to do well when they're feeling good.

One thing that can help with that is not overly dwelling on your mistakes as they happen. If something doesn't work, move on. The more you start thinking about what you did wrong, the tenser you get, and your reaction time decreases. The more your reaction time decreases, the less opportunities for gaining initiative will present themselves. Ends up going back to the whole flow in the now line of thinking which gets trotted out so much in the MA's that people hear it, but dismiss it as cliche or some mysterious, unattainable element of mastery etc.

[dudleydorightlx@gmail.com]

I take it from your animated photo that you are a young lady please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok! let me tell you a story about an overweight kid at age 15 ,pushed around, bullied...

I start Kenpo back in San Jose California with Jim Trevino and Joe Mora these two Instructors brought me out of my shyness and never once said anything to me about losing weight...

What they did do was never talked down to me without knowing it within a month I was feeling better about myself and took every opportunity to workout with someone every day after school.

By the third month I was losing a lot of weight because of the grueling workout classes focused punches ,kicks... at full power just short of locking joints at arms or legs yet knowing my kicks were powerful.

They put me into sparring within only two months and started me slow allowing me not only opportunity again this time to make contact on them to give me a what should we call it uh! umph! to know that my kicks were effective. Now these Instructors were very hard hitters . If anyone out there has ever trained with Jim Trevino or Joe Mora know this to be factual.

The long and the short of this by the end of my sixth month sparring My shyness was gone as to being afraid of being hit that also was gone why you ask? For some reason that in later years I understood there method to transform me and all other students and that was when I was Hit by them at first just love taps yet without me realizing it each time I sparred I was getting hit just a tad more in all areas as to building up my tolerance for taking a punch,kick,elbow... The upside was that I was able not only to dish it out but could take a hit and still go toe to toe.

These two men were very humble and preyed on weak students and turned them into strong confident and able students that could hold there heads high knowing they could walk away from a bully not out of fear for themselves but fear from what they could do to that thug.

I'm so proud to have been under there tuteledge and call them my friends. I have been out of California for many years and have lost touch with them if anyone out there knows of there whereabouts post it so others can avail themselves for there knowledge and wisdom.

Why they have never been recognized in Kenpo Hall of fame is beyond me.

Three noted students of Jim Trevino , Prof. John Sepulveda on the west coast and Prof. Joe polanzo on the east coast and lastly strong heavy weight fighter from Ohio Prof. J. T. Will.

By the way J.T. Will and I started sparring class at the same time.

These three bruisers are well respected for there fighting ability derived from training with Jim, and many ,many more students through the years.

Oh! by the way did I mention along with me John,Joe,J.T. were all gunshy at first , if you do not know that means they also were leary of being hit and look at there fighting careers through the years , who would have beleived the transformation.

I do hope this helped. You just have to find that special teacher that can bring your strengths to the surface without you even realizing it and before you know it you will be teaching others who were just like you in the beginning.

let me know in a few months how you are doing. If you are not satisfied with your current teacher let me know and I will find someone who went through same training as I did with Jim Trevino in your area.
I hope this story helped.

Your Kenpo friend

your Kenpo friend

[Just4Kicks]

The best way to do what you want Bookworm is to forget the adjective "agressive" and its connotations which you seem unwilling to apply. Think about your techniques, focus on them, think of perfecting the movement, the speed, the power. Each of these mediums, sparring, poomsae, combinations etc, are designed to perfect them. When you sparring instead of seeing executing your movements as "aggression" see your partner as another person you wants to perfect their own techniques, as a give and take training. You don't want to hurt them, all you want to do is perfect your movements. Don't aim to hit, just close enough to make it realistic to give you the 'feel' of the move. Don't let under confidence strip away your focus, be intent upon that which you are trying to do.Its training, none of this is personal.

In poomsae, just do each movement perfectly, strong and with emphasis, take it slow at first and then speed up, without losing the power behind each movement.

I hope that mind frame helps, if not feel free to disregard it.

[Steel Tiger]

Calmness is the key to combat. That and Patience are the legs that techniques stand on.

Aggression is a much vaunted emotion in martial arts but I think, as noted in several posts above, what people really mean by 'aggression' is not being timid, not flinching and executing your techniques pro-actively with strength and confidence when the openings present themselves.

There are two things that are seriously detrimental to the practice of MAs. The first is excessive aggression and the second is over-thinking. Calmness, as Sukerkin has pointed out, is key. When one is calm one can reason and react. When one is too aggressive all thought goes out the window as an attempt to overwhelm one's opponent takes over. Of course one can go the other way and think way too much about techniques, the end result being the creation of complexity where there is none

[quote=Taekwondo_gal06;807591]The best way to do what you want Bookworm is to forget the adjective "agressive" and its connotations which you seem unwilling to apply. Think about your techniques, focus on them, think of perfecting the movement, the speed, the power. Each of these mediums, sparring, poomsae, combinations etc, are designed to perfect them. When you sparring instead of seeing executing your movements as "aggression" see your partner as another person you wants to perfect their own techniques, as a give and take training. You don't want to hurt them, all you want to do is perfect your movements. Don't aim to hit, just close enough to make it realistic to give you the 'feel' of the move. Don't let under confidence strip away your focus, be intent upon that which you are trying to do.Its training, none of this is personal.[quote]

There is no doubt that confidence is very important. When you are confident with what you are doing it is simply easier to do. Look at any physical activity. At first there is hesitancy and nervousness as you try to understand how you get your body to do the new activity, but in time understanding and muscle memory kick in and confidence builds.


I think that in a lot of cases a lack of confidence is misinterpreted as a lack of aggression. Its just not necessary to be aggressive to be effective. Personally I think a lot of MAers use aggression to cover up deficiencies in their technique.

[Kacey]

I think that in a lot of cases a lack of confidence is misinterpreted as a lack of aggression. Its just not necessary to be aggressive to be effective. Personally I think a lot of MAers use aggression to cover up deficiencies in their technique.

This is a very good point, and it is one that is frequently overlooked. It's much harder to control your technique and hit just hard enough, than it is to hit as hard as you can every time.

[Steel Tiger]

This is a very good point, and it is one that is frequently overlooked. It's much harder to control your technique and hit just hard enough, than it is to hit as hard as you can every time.

Physically it is not a good plan to just whale away as hard as you can either. That path leads to broken bones. Your own.