How many ladies think that they could handle there own in a self defense situation agianst a larger oppent? Also how would win or get away.

I am not a woman so I wont answer this one but will relay a story.
Our school was holding a Womens self-defense course on a weekend, we had about 20 or so students. The instructor was female stood about 5 foot and weighed about all of 125 lbs.
As the course began most of the women seems to be in the "dead zone" and the course going down hill fast.
Well one of our assistants saw this and decided to liven things up (SPONTANEOUSLY) he was about 5' 11" and weighed a good 295 lbs on a good day.
He got up and charged the instructor right out of nowhere and well..


Bap bap bap....he went flying through the drywall about 6 ft away..

I think that any woman trained in the arts and feels confident enough can defend herself against an opponent of equal or lesser size but twice to three times her size as well.

Just what I saw.

Dave "C2" Gunzburg

still me too hav another story but its about my fellow mate in TKD class...she's blue belt in TKD her kicks r damn good, her punches hurt(yup i meant it, they hurts like hell) she's around 5,1 and weighs around 125lbs... she's been doing TKD from 4 yrs
so the story is that she got teased by a guy which she responded quite well but later the things just went too much and she kicked the hell outta him rite there in market...he was almost twice of size to her, but yes kicks in groin, punches in faces works ... man while sparring we(everyone in class) try to avoid her kicks n don't let her come in for a punch we can guess how much power she had generated while kickin crap outta that ****** guy and one his freind who was with him rite there(around same size of her) ran away after seeing that(rite decision)...
so i think most of them can handle it good...

Hey everyone!!

All i can say.. is that.. I know in my heart..(and i pray that i never happens) that if someone tries to attack me.. I will not give up for anything.. every part of my body (yes inculding my teeth.. hehehe) is a potental weapon.. that im willing to use to defend myself... I feel that being involved in MA has started to prepare my mind.. and not only my body do deal with those types of situations if they arise.. I hope that the day NEVER comes where i'll be put to the ultamite test!! But i guess we just have no control over that!!

Stay safe everyone..
and train well!!

I think I'd have a pretty decent chance if:

1. he doesn't know martial arts
2. I see him before he grabs me
3. the fight doesn't go to the ground

If those three factors aren't present, I probably wouldn't fare very well just because I'm outweighed by most men, and they're usually much bigger and stronger.

with an average guy on the street, I might hold my own... against someone who is better at martial arts than I am, plus outweighs me...probably not.

martial arts for me is a last-ditch, unreliable weapon. I know its there if I have to use it, but I never, ever would count on it working, simply because I don't know what my opponent knows.

Originally posted by nightingale8472


martial arts for me is a last-ditch, unreliable weapon. I know its there if I have to use it, but I never, ever would count on it working, simply because I don't know what my opponent knows.
I think that is the perfect way to look at your MA training. Everyone should look at it that way, but especially women. I think you are probably safer and less likely to be in a situation because of your view of it. With that view you will be more cautious on "other" variables such as being alone, being aware of your situations, and such.

I think women can take men when in a situation like that if trained properly. weight and size don't come into play as much if you use your technique properly. I wont say it doesn't come into play, but not as much.

7sm

Ya I am glad that it seems like most people on the forun have a very realistic idea what is going on in the real world. At the school I go to alot of the women think they could defend themselves from anything. Although there is one women there I wouldn't want mad at me. =-)

Originally posted by 7starmantis

I think that is the perfect way to look at your MA training. Everyone should look at it that way, but especially women. I think you are probably safer and less likely to be in a situation because of your view of it. With that view you will be more cautious on "other" variables such as being alone, being aware of your situations, and such.

7sm

Exactly.

It seems that every time I've gotten myself in a "situation" its because I've done something stupid and preventable... like not walking six blocks ALONE at midnight in downtown riverside to get to my car. stupid stuff like that. I don't go anywhere alone after dark anymore, except in my immediate neighborhood, which is very safe, and even then, I'm looking around and jumping at every shadow.

Originally posted by nightingale8472

Exactly.

It seems that every time I've gotten myself in a "situation" its because I've done something stupid and preventable... like not walking six blocks ALONE at midnight in downtown riverside to get to my car. stupid stuff like that. I don't go anywhere alone after dark anymore, except in my immediate neighborhood, which is very safe, and even then, I'm looking around and jumping at every shadow.

I think more of that should be taught in womens self defense classes rather than the advanced break techniques and such that an average woman could not learn effectivly in a 6 hour class and then remember and perform 8 months down the road.

7sm

7star,

yeah i agree with ya... even though I don't train in a women's only class.. i think that in a one or two day seminar.. they should put great emphasis on things like .. where to hit an attacker.. show them the parts of the body that will slow down or stop the attacker, rather than how to effectively throw them..
but that just my 2.5 cents...:)

when I teach a women's seminar, I go over three techniques... one for an arm around the shoulder or side shoulder grab (obscure wing, for kenpoists), one for a front bear hug (thrusting prongs), and one for a rear bear hug (modified scraping hoof).

I teach things that have only one to three steps, and make sure they're techniques off of grabs, because that's the attack most likely to happen to a woman.

First, we sit and talk about all the ways not to be a victim. How to walk confidently, even if you're lost, how not to look like a victim, how to be aware, look, listen, feel, and what not to do, like don't walk to your car alone after dark, when christmas shopping, always put stuff in your car when you have one hand full and then return, don't encumber both hands with packages, because it makes you a prime target cause you can't move easily, and stuff like that.

then we drill one self defense technique at a time, gauntlet style, until we run out of time. I usually bring a male assistant, so we have someone to work with of appropriate mass and strength, because a 90 lb woman doing a tech on another 90lb woman isn't gonna do a whole lot of good if she ends up against a 200 lb guy a few weeks from then.

Originally posted by nightingale8472

when I teach a women's seminar, I go over three techniques... one for an arm around the shoulder or side shoulder grab (obscure wing, for kenpoists), one for a front bear hug (thrusting prongs), and one for a rear bear hug (modified scraping hoof).

I teach things that have only one to three steps, and make sure they're techniques off of grabs, because that's the attack most likely to happen to a woman.

First, we sit and talk about all the ways not to be a victim. How to walk confidently, even if you're lost, how not to look like a victim, how to be aware, look, listen, feel, and what not to do, like don't walk to your car alone after dark, when christmas shopping, always put stuff in your car when you have one hand full and then return, don't encumber both hands with packages, because it makes you a prime target cause you can't move easily, and stuff like that.

then we drill one self defense technique at a time, gauntlet style, until we run out of time. I usually bring a male assistant, so we have someone to work with of appropriate mass and strength, because a 90 lb woman doing a tech on another 90lb woman isn't gonna do a whole lot of good if she ends up against a 200 lb guy a few weeks from then.

I have to applaud your teaching, seems like you are actually giving women self defense that is practical and useful. Your really helping people out and that is really great.

7sm

well, being female, I try to teach them stuff that I would find useful if I was in their shoes, because unfortunately, common sense isn't so common... they don't think to check to see if someone's following them when they're walking around.

My mom says "you're so paranoid...how can you live like that?" I say "In this day and age, how can you not?" I've been attacked. She hasn't. That's the difference. The only reason I was attacked is that I did something stupid. If I hadn't walked those six blocks alone in the dark in downtown at midnight, I wouldn't have been attacked. plain and simple. If I'd had someone tell me not to do that, and share a personal story of why, I might not have gone out there alone, ignoring that tingling feeling at the back of my neck that was saying "don't do that!" Even though I've been training in kenpo for years, nobody ever told me what not to do, ways to stay safe. So when I teach, that's the first thing I share with my students. Its great to know martial arts... its even better to know it and never have to use it.

-N-

Ladies,
I'm glad that those of you that ave had to put your art to use have been successful. I think that most of you seem to have missed a huge point. My students hear it from me constantly. "Pain don't hurt". I do not mean that in a Macho sort of way, not at all. What it means is this, you in all likelihood get hit harder in class by acident or on purpose by an instructor than the average person in the street hits. How many times have you been doing a tech or sparring and had somebody blast you, either accidently or intentionally and you've either gotten highly pissed or blown it off. The ONE factor in the street that most do not really have in the studio is fear. Most out in the street have fear and lots of it, use it to your advantage, use that fear to make your strikes faster, harder, and more precise. The way that will occur is something like this:
.............you are walking down the street, a guy jumps out and demands your purse (for the sake of my parable, he is unarmed at this time, although you do not know it), you really do not want to give himyour purse as it has all sorts of personal stuff in it, but you remember, everything can be replaced, so you give it to him. He promptly dumps it at your feet and grabs your wallet. You stand there as you look at your possessions on the ground and now you are going from scared to really annoyed. He gets your attention back, "Hey, there's only 3 dollars in here, where's the rest if it?", "I'm sorry that's all there is.". "Lying *****!!" he screams as he smacks you acorss the side of the face hard enough to knock you from your feet. He moves forward as he expects you to cower and cover up, but nowyou are really scared adn more importantly, really pissed, so instead you do Encounter with Danger as you scream at him, "You did NOT just hit me in the face! Over THREE dollars!" As he doubles over, insteasd of covering out, you graft into [Thundering Hammers[/I]........
Like I said originally, this scenario is feasible when you loose your fear to a degree and use what is there to help you. I know of several instances where this sort of thing has happened and worked.:asian:

Seig I have to disagree with you a little bit. In a pressure situation you are more likely to hit harder and faster, but you also hit less acuritly. If you think I am mistaken check any Police or FBI combat reports.

This is a fact!
><><><

Originally posted by JDenz

Seig I have to disagree with you a little bit. In a pressure situation you are more likely to hit harder and faster, but you also hit less acuritly. If you think I am mistaken check any Police or FBI combat reports.
I understand what you are saying. I did not, however, that it WOULD make you more acurate, I said to use fear to make you that way, to use it as a focusing tool. I realize that fear will make the average person less precise, but that is why we train. Remember, practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

Originally posted by Eraser

All i can say.. is that.. I know in my heart..(and i pray that i never happens) that if someone tries to attack me.. I will not give up for anything.. every part of my body (yes inculding my teeth.. hehehe) is a potental weapon.. that im willing to use to defend myself... I feel that being involved in MA has started to prepare my mind.. and not only my body do deal with those types of situations if they arise.. I hope that the day NEVER comes where i'll be put to the ultamite test!! But i guess we just have no control over that!!

This is very important too. Even if the opponent is bigger than you, even if you don't have a lot of training, you have to convince yourself that, whatever this person is going to do to you, it has to be the hardest, most grueling thing they've ever done. If you just give up, he wins no matter what. Studies have shown that women that fight back, no matter the outcome of the rape, fare better later on down the road. They at least *tried* to stop what was happening.

Seig talked about a switch for women's brains in another thread. You hit that switch and turn into an animal... If you do it right, the guy will realize that you're not easy pickin's and he'll move on to someone easier.

Sorry, I'm also a guy, but I think that a lot of the martial arts were created to be used against stronger opponents. So I believe that a woman can defeat a larger, stronger foe. She just has to have the proper knowledge of her tools and the proper mindset.

WhiteBirch

I think this poll should have a spot for the use of improvised weapons, for running, for using a non-improvised weapon (OC Spray, Taser, Pistol) and the like.
It's the fear that really does people in. If you can turn your fear into anger ("Oh no you DON'T, Mr. Bad Guy!) you stand a better chance than if you hesitate and get all freaked.
:asian:

I believe in that switch in the brain, and in my fairly-limited experience I've seen it more often in women than in men.

Certainly, I've several times worked out with women who absolutely will not move until you genuinely try to hit them in the head. And no, faking it won't do.

But--and I can think of at least three different women who are like this--throw that punch for real, and ahura-mazda help you. You can seee their eyes change.

My suspicion is that many women martial artists are not into male display.

Robert

Our school has all women testing for green and above participate in an abduction scenario. Man vs. women in the center of the dojo, man attempts to get the women to the back of the dojo (25 feet) and women attempts to reach the front of the dojo (25 feet). Normal dojo attire except the man has full head and face protection, no rules for the women. On my last test I was the bad guy. The women was the same rank as me. I'm 43, 5'11" and 180, she's 16, 5'2" and 110. Normally I dominate her in sparring situations. In the abduction scenario she kicked my butt. I tried my hardest, she deserves that. She won five and lost three. The only way I could win was to grab her around the waist and carry her off, taking shots the whole way. If I didn't have face and head protection, there'd be know way I'd have won any. A very interesting drill.

There is only ONE correct way for a women to answer this question..

YES I will win a confrontation against a male attacker!

Why? Because the alternative is unacceptable and they need to have the same mindset as a man, that losing is not an option, it is not a consideration, it is not a possibility, period.

This is not arrogance or cockyness. It is the mindset needed to overcome the attack.

"It depends on the situation" is an unacceptable answer. It leaves room for doubt. Doubt can get you hurt or killed.

:asian:

I agree with ARK on this, why do women become victims? Because they have a victim mentality or they move like a victim. They day that you stop being a victim in your heart and/or mind, the less likely an attack is to occur.

I agree with ARK to an extent.... the attitude he suggests would definitely be my attitude during a confrontation.

I think the women in this thread would agree with ARK on that.

However, I think most of us who answered the poll were thinking in very general terms, because in any fight, the outcome is uncertain, no matter how sure of yourself you are.

Also, the poll's answers were definitely leading. There was no "Yes, I'll win."

The poll asked:

Definitly no problem I WOULD BEAT HIM WITH STRIKING 0 0%
Depends on the situation 14 93.33%
Of course I WILL KICK HIM IN THE PRIVATES 1 6.67%
yes I I WOULD USE JOINT LOCK TECHNIQUES.


There was no definite "Yes, but HOW I'll win depends on the situation"
and no "Yes...I'll win by turning tail and RUNNING and getting myself out of the situation any way I can!"

I agree with a lot of what's been said. I believe that, in a self-defense situation, training is better than no training. Attitude is everything. Size isn't everything--but it's also not nothing. Most of the posters here would fight hard. HOWEVER, for the men on this board:

Most of you have no idea what it's like to be smaller than all of your training partners. No idea what it's like to grapple, on regular basis, with people who outweigh you by 80-100 lbs, and who are all stronger than you. No idea what it's like to be the gender that is most likely to be a victim rather than a victimizer. No idea what its like to feel cold fear creeping in as you approach a group of high school boys on the street--just because they're a group of high school boys. No idea what it's like when most of your professors, bosses, Senators, Members of Congress, Presidents, religious leaders, judges, and most of the other images of power are of the other gender.

Don't kid yourself guys...this is real, and it's important to women. When we make a realistic appraisal, and say, "Depends on the situation," it isn't because we're defeatist.

It's interesting what happens when you start training in self defense. I find myself looking at all sorts of men in ways I never did before. (Minds outta the gutter :fanboy: :lol: )...I'm sizing them up ~ I'm looking at them trying to assess in my mind if I think I could take them. When I catch myself doing this to people I know, friends and relatives, neighbors, acquaintances etc., it usually makes me laugh for even having these thoughts. Not that I'd start anything ever, but if they were to attack me I think what would I do? Does he seem strong, aggressive? Most of the time I think... yes I could at the very least stand a chance. :uhyeah: I think my attitude comes from training with some big guys. I now rarely look at men who are big and see big in terms of fear, instead I see their advantages, which are to be respected, but I also see my advantages. I sometimes see slow and unconditioned bodies that allow possibilities for me to defend myself with my speed, and agility. I often see me defending myself and surviving, but there are times that I see me running away, especially if there is a group of men in like a parking lot and I get that "high alert feeling"! Either way, I don't ever see myself giving up though :ultracool
I wonder if men ever have to have these types of thoughts...OMG maybe they find us scary LOL let's hope so...

I am not a tiny girl. I'm an amazon. Simple fact of the matter, I try to minimize the occourences of being attacked in the first place. But am I going to win? Yes. I hold my own against the guys in my class, and that's with me actually caring that they can walk away at the end of it. Someone jumps me out of the shadows, he's gonna get what he deserves, and that's to get thrown to the ground and his joints turned into mashed potatos.

One of the reasons I love my art as much as I do is it's simple effectiveness, and it's emphasis on technique, leverage, and body mass. I'm not stronger than most of the guys, but I understand leverage very well. If all goes according to plan, the fight is over in 2-3 moves. If all goes wahooni-shaped, maybe 4-5 moves. If the gerbil in my brain falls off the treadwheel, well, that's why I train at running, too. :D


M

I see my chances of prevailing over a violent attacker as mostly dependent on his skill. Size and strength have nothing to do with it. I know a lot of people will disagree with that. It's just the way I see it. The other factor is weapons. If I'm unarmed and he's got a gun, my chances of prevailing through physical movement would probably decrease. Unarmed against a knife, I'd have a slightly better chance than with a gun, because we have practiced knife disarms much more than gun disarms in my class. However, I am afraid of being killed by a bullet and would probably be more hesitant to fight with someone holding a gun.
Hitting would not be my first means of defense. As a Systema student, I would try to avoid any incoming blows and then control the movement of the attacker, ideally, by guiding him to the ground and hopefully breaking a bone or two in the process, using his own body weight as he falls. If that didn't work, I'd slam his head against the pavement and hope to stun him enough to run away. Incapicating, and then running away, would be my primary goals. But I haven't actually thought about this much. Every situation will be different and it's hard to say what I'd do or whether I'd prevail. I'd just do my best, or course.
Systema has an unusual approach to the adrenaline dump caused by anger at or fear of the attacker. We train to maintain calm in stressful situations rather than maximize the aggression.
I didn't vote Yes, I voted Maybe. In our class, we train to survive extreme situations, not to win them. This was already well-covered in another ill-fated thread, but if an attacker shoves a gun in some innocent person's face and says to me, "Do what I say or this person eats it," that would be a definite Maybe situation in my book.
Some women become victims because they have a victim mentality. But let's not give men a free pass, here. Most violence is perpertrated by men and I believe they are the larger cause of violence, not any perceived shrinking-violet mentality of women.
Interesting topic, I'm looking forward to reading more replies.
Rachel

It's interesting what happens when you start training in self defense. I find myself looking at all sorts of men in ways I never did before. (Minds outta the gutter :fanboy: :lol: )...I'm sizing them up ~ I'm looking at them trying to assess in my mind if I think I could take them. When I catch myself doing this to people I know, friends and relatives, neighbors, acquaintances etc., it usually makes me laugh for even having these thoughts. Not that I'd start anything ever, but if they were to attack me I think what would I do? Does he seem strong, aggressive? Most of the time I think... yes I could at the very least stand a chance. :uhyeah: I think my attitude comes from training with some big guys. I now rarely look at men who are big and see big in terms of fear, instead I see their advantages, which are to be respected, but I also see my advantages. I sometimes see slow and unconditioned bodies that allow possibilities for me to defend myself with my speed, and agility. I often see me defending myself and surviving, but there are times that I see me running away, especially if there is a group of men in like a parking lot and I get that "high alert feeling"! Either way, I don't ever see myself giving up though :ultracool
I wonder if men ever have to have these types of thoughts...OMG maybe they find us scary LOL let's hope so...

MJ et al,

The sizing up of people is something that most people go through or do. At least from my expereince and with those I have trained with.

As to being afraid of women, yes I am. ;) :)

Being one of the "larger guys" I have not had to deal with this issue, but thought I would let MJ and others know that some men do go through the sizing up and gaging of people everywhere they go.

:asian:

The sizing up of people is something that most people go through or do. At least from my expereince and with those I have trained with.

Same here

In my class, when we spar, we spar with everyone, regardless of size, rank, or gender.

However, when we practice self-defense techniques, we are always partnered up with someone of similiar size or gender. I don't know why my instructor does this, I would like to try some of these techniques on one of the bigger, stronger guys. Since I am the lone adult female, I get paired up with either a younger teenage girl or boy. Why they are good kids, they are "kids" and I honestly believe I could take them out easily, even without TKD techniques. (Give me guile and experience vs. youth and beauty, any day :ultracool )

I would like to try to partner up with a bigger man, but I haven't quite got the nerve to ask my instructor yet, to let me.

Peace,
Melissa

Your poll is pretty a case of false dichotomy. You don't have any "no" response.

But I have faith in women. It's possible for a female to take down a larger male.

Hello Loki,

The poll was created by a male back in 2002~!

The poll was created by a male back in 2002~!
Shows you what males are good for... :ultracool
And it's still a false dichotomy! :rolleyes:

I replied "depends on the situation." If it comes down to self-defense, I do not expect to come out unscathed, without injury. I expect to fight to survive. He will definitely pay for that decision to attack as I would give it all I've got in defense.

- Ceicei

I put "depends on the situation" because every situation is different.

Do I know him?
Is he trained?
Is he armed?
Do either of us have friends around?
Observers of any type?
Location?
Possible escape routes?
Time of day?
Reason for attacking?

And so on....

Well honestly Im not sure which move I would use. It would depend if they had a weapon. If they were unarmned. If they were behind me, or in front of me. In legs reach, in hands reach.
But I can say for sure, I would definatly be able to handle myself. I have trained alot with guys that are bigger then me, since im actually quite a petite women. There werent many short guys in my classes. LOL :) Are there ever?? LOL.
Anyways....does the Mom Judo chop count?? LOL. Or how about throwing a poppy diaper??
LOL LOL LOL :) :) :)