Training for the Street or the Ring

[adrenaline]

I practise Muay Thai but I find that because the person who teaches me is not a ring fighter but rather trains me to fight on the street because I believe that the guy on the street will always tougher, meaner, harder than the toughest guy in the ring. But when i spar with other students when i visit a small gym every two weeks, I use techniques that are not allowed in the ring and everytime I get told that I'm not allowed to do that but it just never changes me because that is the way i've been taught and will always do. Do you think I should change my style to cater for the ring or keep it for the streets ?

Thank You

[tarabos]

Originally posted by adrenaline

Do you think I should change my style to cater for the ring or keep it for the streets ?


well...that's probably just something you have to ask youself. which one is more important to you? no one here can decide that for you. i'll just say this: there's lots of people out there who can fight as dirty as they need outside on the street, but can also follow certain rules and regulations when they enter a ring. you just have to learn physical and mental self-control (not that you don't have either....)

[MartialArtist]

I doubt the toughest man in the street can even compare to a professional fighter. By professional fighter, I don't mean UFC with rules, etc., but professional as in one who put in a lot of time and effort and strived to have complete mastery. The toughest street thug is in a whole heap of trouble against people like Sugar Ray Robinson or Lee or Tyson.

[Damian Mavis]

What techniques are you doing in the ring in MT that are illegal?!?! Are you biting his ear or hip throwing him? Pretty much everything is legal except for obvious throws and grappling/striking on the ground and of course biting.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Bod]

Judo as a sport is great fun and a huge challenge.

I'm more scared when I get on the mat sometimes than when I am confronted in the street, because the chance of a broken bone seems so much higher on the mat.

If you can't choose between sport and self defence then don't.

Do both.

[ace]

Can change like the Wether in N.Y.
1 min. it's hot next it's cold.

In the streets U might start
knockin a Guy around next thing
Next thing U know he has pulled a Knife.

Now no matter how pre pared 1 is for a street fight
A knife in the gut can happen.

Or U kick the crap out of him 1 Day
& he sticks the next for Revenge.

if U are a guest in another Dojo U should
Respect there Rules.

Ring fighting does not Mean
U can't win in the streets
But the streets are for ever changing.------------
:boxing:

[kenposcum]

I always trained for the street. I never really even gave pro fighting much consideration.
It shouldn't be hard for you to edit your repertoire to match up with wherever you're at. You should be able to go light contact, no contact, full contact, and you should be able to not throw things you know your partner doesn't want you to throw, as well as stuff you don't want to throw (example: for awhile, all I used in point sparring was a right backfist because no one could block it...but I was neglecting everything else. So I consciously didn't use my backfist, because I wanted to focus on using other weapons).
:asian:

[Carbon]

This is completely off topic, but ace why do you capitalize U?

[J-kid]

For one you can own a gun , and so can the other guy. Lets not get into this kind of dussuccion what if he picks up a ROCKET LUNCHER> martial arts dos not mean we can dodge bullets at least most of us any how.

The strongest toughest street thug wont have any Training and will proble just be swinging like a mad man. Now lets pretend he is unarmed. And he is alone. Has no friends OR WEAPONS OF ANY KIND BESIDES his body.

And you are a martial artist vs this guy. Even if you train for ring or not. Your still gonna know alot more , I mean in a fight your not gonna be using rules your gonna brawl and since your Fit and trained to fight you will beat the thug . Also most thugs arnt in shape to fight. You will not be only able to Beat this guy but easy because if you train in the ring your used to fighting people even if there are rules you still are fighting. Next Your oppenent being a street thug has only done fighting vs someone with proble low amount of skill , So basicaly you got a experience person that fights vs someone who talks **** and swings like a idoit ,. The winner is gonna be the trained one,

THis is also assuming they are around same size and ht.

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

What techniques are you doing in the ring in MT that are illegal?!?! Are you biting his ear or hip throwing him? Pretty much everything is legal except for obvious throws and grappling/striking on the ground and of course biting.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Spitting at your opponent? :D

[Chiduce]

Trying another instructor for sparring and tournament could be a possible solution!
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!

[theneuhauser]

what makes you think that you will always fight "streetstyle" adrenaline? if you want to fight for sport, just learn to fight for sport. what are you doing, anyways? throwing sand in people's eyes?

[muayThaiPerson]

What techniques are you doing in the ring in MT that are illegal?!?! Are you biting his ear or hip throwing him? Pretty much everything is legal except for obvious throws and grappling/striking on the ground and of course biting.

dude, LMAO.

Muay Thai is a combat based art. combat as in war. street?!?...psh. streets are nothing. Muay Thai is Muay Thai, theres no such thing as street Muay Thai. ive seen vids and seen some jaw dropping moves. what restrictions are u talking about?

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by MartialArtist

I doubt the toughest man in the street can even compare to a professional fighter. By professional fighter, I don't mean UFC with rules, etc., but professional as in one who put in a lot of time and effort and strived to have complete mastery. The toughest street thug is in a whole heap of trouble against people like Sugar Ray Robinson or Lee or Tyson.

I have to agree, I wouldn't say the average street fighter is in better condition than most serious MAist.

Just view the "sport" aspect as just that, sport. Use the rules during the match and when confronted on the street use what you have to.


7sm

[Shinzu]

in my opinion i would train for the street. there is more on the line than in a ring.

[muayThaiPerson]

in my opinion i would train for the street. there is more on the line than in a ring.

when you say theres more on the line, you mean weapons? muay thai doestn have any weapons training involved. so to say trainnig for the streets is wrong. like i said, theres no such thing as street muay thai or ring muay thai.

prove me wrong. what do you mean by street muay thai? wat techniques are in "street" mauy thai that arent in the ring?:asian:

[Damian Mavis]

When he said more on the line I think he meant your life is in danger as opposed to just your ego or getting banged up in the ring.

I too am a little confused as to the differences between ring and street Muay Thai. The only added techniques that you could use on the street that you can't use in the ring are eye gouging, biting and submission grappling on the ground. Everything else goes.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[muayThaiPerson]

we're talking muay thai here. i dont think theres submission grappling involved. as for eye gouging and biting, i dont think anyone trains for that:rofl: . do u bite bags or something at ur gym:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

and go ahead and try to bite a MT fighter. it just shows how desperate u are. he'll smack u upsidedown and insideout\

:rofl:

[Damian Mavis]

I am a Muay Thai fighter.....

And I do practice biting and eye gouging.......

A man can chew through a huge raw steak in seconds with practice.

I don't get your attitude.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Bod]

I bit through a tractor tyre in 3.2 seconds.

I'd swallowed the last bit in 15.7 seconds!

Training or what?

Advice for tractor tyre bite training:

1) Use a new tire. Old, muddy, tyres carry a risk of stomach complaints.

2) Start of on bicycle tyres and move up, no need to bite off more than you can chew!

3) Tractor tyres taste better with a good strong English mustard.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Bod

I bit through a tractor tyre in 3.2 seconds.



Yeah but was it moving or sitting still? ;)

[muayThaiPerson]

And I do practice biting and eye gouging.......

do u mean at your gym where students are there or there or on your free training time?

[Damian Mavis]

First of all if you're not training on moving tires attached to fast vehicles that you're not really training!

Muaythaiperson :

"do u mean at your gym where students are there or there or on your free training time"

Both, don't you practice what you learn in class outside of class too?

I think you are totally misunderstanding what people are saying here. To practice MT for the street means practicing techniques that are not legal in the ring, or practicing the ring techniques in a way that better conforms to an untrained opponent that won't defend the same way as a ring fighter. You mention that there is no grappling in MT so why would you be practicing it for street defence? Uhm maybe because if I as a MT fighter get taken to the ground I want to know how to fight there?!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[adrenaline]

Think I phrased my question badly, what i meant was that i'm not actually using illegal techniques, but I just wanted to know anyone's opinion on whether training for the street is better or traning for the ring is better.

Thanks.

[Damian Mavis]

The only difference to me is the strategy involved. For street defence you don't have to worry about your attacker having an excellent MT defence so you can go for the devastating techniques right away (such as a crippling shin kick to the thigh, I've seen a couple of MT guys end a fight with just one move and that was it.)

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

When he said more on the line I think he meant your life is in danger as opposed to just your ego or getting banged up in the ring.


that is exactly what i meant :)

[tenth1]

you seem to assume thet the thugs on the street are un thinking un skilled buffons, in reality a lot of these people are naturally tallented fighters, many of them do have some type of training for example in boxing which is very common in low income areas with high crime rates it is places like this that great fighters like tyson came from. these people have been in countless brawls and are not afraid to get hit for your own sake do not take anyone lightly and just assume you will come out on top, you could lose your life!

[KenpoTex]

um, tenth1...while you make an excellent point, the last post in this thread (prior to yours) was like 5 1/2 years ago ;)

[Josh Oakley]

For one you can own a gun , and so can the other guy. Lets not get into this kind of dussuccion what if he picks up a ROCKET LUNCHER> martial arts dos not mean we can dodge bullets at least most of us any how.

The strongest toughest street thug wont have any Training and will proble just be swinging like a mad man. Now lets pretend he is unarmed. And he is alone. Has no friends OR WEAPONS OF ANY KIND BESIDES his body.

And you are a martial artist vs this guy. Even if you train for ring or not. Your still gonna know alot more , I mean in a fight your not gonna be using rules your gonna brawl and since your Fit and trained to fight you will beat the thug . Also most thugs arnt in shape to fight. You will not be only able to Beat this guy but easy because if you train in the ring your used to fighting people even if there are rules you still are fighting. Next Your oppenent being a street thug has only done fighting vs someone with proble low amount of skill , So basicaly you got a experience person that fights vs someone who talks **** and swings like a idoit ,. The winner is gonna be the trained one,

THis is also assuming they are around same size and ht.

You, know, I gotta wonder where it is you are that allows you to think of thugs as such. When I go to bars and see fights, farr too often I see black belts get their you-know-what's handed to them because of the mentality you have. Even in a suburban area like Renton, WA, I watch thugs at bus stopss fighting with eachother for fun and they don't pull punches at all. And this is with their friends. The lessons these kids learn from fighting they learn the hard way, and it conditions their minds and bodies to take a hit.

When you factor in the possibility of drugs and pure rage, the danger is even higher. A police friend of mine told me a story about a monster Samoan they had in cuffs who lost it at the station. He broke the cuffs like they were paper and almost killed a couple of my friend's buddies in the process. The cops in the station (about 4) unloaded their magazines at him and he was still going and still dangerous. my buddy took hiim down when the guy was about 3 feet away after reloading with a shot to the face.

If you train for the street, always expect the guy to be tougher and more experienced than you are. This mindset gives you a proper level of apprehension when entering a fight. You will have no false sense of security, and a higher desire to end the fight and get out of there as quick as possible.

[Sukerkin]

Whoa! I'm going to need my 'special' katana to deal with this Zombie thread :D.

Old it may be but some good points were made amidst the bad grammar and posturing.

It is true that to under-estimate 'street toughs' is foolish. But it is also true that to under-estimate what your art can do when you stop 'being nice' is likewise foolish.

If the training you recieve is not such that you can use it in a fight then you are not learning a martial art - it's as simple as that. I've not thought of it in those blunt terms until this very post but I think it is a valid point of view. Whether you can make enough of an impression to beat someone whose life regularly involves the pain of fighting depends on how much you are able to drop your sensitivities and begin breaking bits.

I honestly didn't think that I would be able to do that but I found, the one and only time it's ever been necessary, that when I think some chaps are going to kill me then my 'trained response' dial goes all the way up to 11. Your conscience is another matter entirely :(.

[Empty Hands]

Whoa! I'm going to need my 'special' katana to deal with this Zombie thread :D.

BRRRRAAAAAIIIIIIINNNNNSSSSS! ;)

[Sukerkin]

:D

Now you've got me putting that 'special' katana by the bed, EH :scared:.

[Josh Oakley]

oh, believe me, I don't think any less of myself or my martial art, and i know from experience that what I do is effective on the street. Something about me likes being the underdog, because I spent many years as such. But I kept the mentality that the guy staring me down is biger, stronger, tougher, and better trained. It helps me get into less fights.

Moreover, in the fights I couldn't avoid, I walked away from unscathed. If I'm going to be the underdog, I'll be a pitbull. And this mentality serves me well.

[ares]

All depends on what you want to do really. Do you want to fight for a living or fight to live? I've never heard of rules in MT, but if they want you to fight a certain way in that ring, then adapt to it. Most of your problems are going to happen in the street, so street fighting is probably the best bet.

[Deaf Smith]

I practise Muay Thai but I find that because the person who teaches me is not a ring fighter but rather trains me to fight on the street because I believe that the guy on the street will always tougher, meaner, harder than the toughest guy in the ring. But when i spar with other students when i visit a small gym every two weeks, I use techniques that are not allowed in the ring and everytime I get told that I'm not allowed to do that but it just never changes me because that is the way i've been taught and will always do. Do you think I should change my style to cater for the ring or keep it for the streets ?

Thank You

Adrenaline,

Both in the ring and on the street have their own good and bad points. As long as your mindset is not ring orentated, that is you game the rules and never pracitce technques that are not in the rule book, then tournaments have very much value as it puts so much pressure on you.

Now as for the street, well there are no rules. If you do Muay Thai, and always follow their rules (and they do have rules) and on the street they simply either pull a gun or have a buddy blindside you, well it's legal in their 'rule' book. So MT is not a guarentee you are any more effective on the street than any other style.

If you wish to be very effective on the street, master whatever art you are in now. I mean put 110 percent and train often. Then take such courses as SouthNarcs ECQC or other reality based classes and understand how the street works.

And as for which is tougher, ring fighters or street toughs, well that depends on the actual person. Many street toughs are not what one considers brave unless they have a good superiority in numbers. Ring fighers are always mano-to-mano. I can't say street toughs are any 'badder' than ring fighters. What they do though, is have no rules and don't care if they hurt you or the law comes. And that possiblity is what you have to train for.

Deaf

[Bodhisattva]

I practise Muay Thai but I find that because the person who teaches me is not a ring fighter but rather trains me to fight on the street because I believe that the guy on the street will always tougher, meaner, harder than the toughest guy in the ring. But when i spar with other students when i visit a small gym every two weeks, I use techniques that are not allowed in the ring and everytime I get told that I'm not allowed to do that but it just never changes me because that is the way i've been taught and will always do. Do you think I should change my style to cater for the ring or keep it for the streets ?

Thank You

You should definitely learn to ring fight, and you should not use your "street" tactics on guys in the ring.

The better you get at ring fighting, the better you will get actually APPLYING your "street" tactics in real life.