Tooling around on the Web, I found some sites that had the same drill:

Vertical Gunting/Straight Hubud:

1) From right high outside reference point
2) Left pak sao and right punch
3) He does left pak sao at wrist, or catches the fist at a slightly longer range, right salute, left pak sao at elbow & right punch. Repeat.

I understand everything here but the 'right salute'. Could someone explain what this 'salute' is?

Thanky,

Cthulhu

technically in hubud it is a wedge with the crossing arm. remember hubud is a sensitivity drill and not a power paksao or a combatitive technique

I can see how the pak da can be disruptive to the flow of the drill.

By wedge, do you mean a sort of smothering movement?

Cthulhu

by wedge I mean that you are inserting and clearing to feed you angle which can be in the form of a straight punch or angle one or descending feed. They are not strikes but simply feeds that flow without interuption or force. Later it can be fed aggressively and elements of dumog and clinching, deflections and destructions can be incorporated. Think of the wedge as a shortened eye jab that crosses centerline

Ah, many thanks on the clarification.:D I wanted to try this drill out with somebody, but the salute threw me off.

Cthulhu

I like this drill. It's good for pressure sensitivity among other things. I use a couple of variations using both the R. and L. hands. Great fun, and training too.

Originally posted by Mao
I like this drill. It's good for pressure sensitivity among other things. I use a couple of variations using both the R. and L. hands. Great fun, and training too.

I'd love to know more about hand sensitivity drills. Dr. Jordan Yee (sp?) taught me a bit about them in Michigan once but the only continuing experience I have is with Okinawan koteki-tai which is not quite the same thing.

sensitivity drills are execellent ways to train the ability to respond to pressure, centerline awareness and flow. These drills really focus on the trapping range and in close up fighting with weaons as with knives it really becomes enhansed. Hubud, chi sao and several dumog drills are my main stay. I sent some videos to Cthulhu and Gou. You may want to see if they have something to copy them. You may find something useful. I didn't focus very much on these drills but the essence is in there. For FMA I think you would find an incredible enhancement. Let me know what ya think.

If you think about pressure sensitivity for what it is, you'll find that it can be applied in many ways. I have illustrated this in aikido classes as well as modern arnis classes. I have used some of the concepts that I learned when I was practicing a bando/jkd blend. It seems that IFAJKD does this also. Apply this concept to more than one art that is.

So true....The concept of sensitivity drills can be such an enlightening way to train. Example is beginning simple hubud, then adding elements of silat, Muay Thai, clinching, dumog, wing chun, JKD and even boxing and Kali blade drills and escrima stick drills. It becomes endless and the value becomes learning to flow from system to system and range to range while applying correct attributes and sharpening it all as you go. In a phrase.....Attribute development is where it's at

If I can't find a regular training partner to try some of IFAJKD's stuff out with, I'm gonna have to start payin' bums off the street.

That, or my wife will just have to grin and bear it :D

Cthulhu

make sure she talks to Lori first as she has some great treatments for bruises and such...Seriously...run an add or sponsor a seminar. You will attract like minded people and network very well. Cost would be covered in the people registering to attend

I may run an ad. I don't know about sponsoring a seminar. I don't feel right about taking money from people when I'm really just some shmuck who wants to beat up on people for fun :D

Cthulhu

It's good to know that there won't be another quack out there! I better say that I do not think that you are one. :)
"a good man's got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood :D

I should clarify that I think you could sponsor a seminar. From there you have the following
1) A personal training Plan with an established Instructor
2) networking of like minded people
3) On going training with the people who have attended
4) You are not in a position to claim something you are not but entering in as a student . In doing so You become the person it is filtered to and your training partner work it and create an envrionment where the people that attend regularly train, grow and continto sponsor Instructors to come in

It becomes like a JKD "club" so to speak. I have had several Instructors begin this way and now have thriving schools and have grown tremendously as martial artists:asian:

IFAJKD,

So, by this you mean sponsoring a seminar for another instructor, perhaps? For instance, having a certified JKD person, or maybe an FMA person give a seminar, and then network and possibly continue to work with the other attendees?

Cthulhu

Well I am not going to plug myself because we don't do that here... But yes. Go to Vunaks website and check out his Instructors. I Have done this with other people who want to train JKD/FMA but have no body in the area. They do this. Find a place to meet and then also many of the attendees continut to meet. They begin their own club and the sponsor is the "go to person" they and their training partners usually up to four people train more with the Instructor in the forms of ongoing IPTPs and then teach/drill what they have been given. Through teaching you force yourself to have to know and understand what you are doing that much better. In short you get good very quickly and also form a group of like minded people who understand fully where everything is at and train along side you.
The network you build is very strong and very rewarding. A JKD club in your hometown. This is quite innovative and siginificantly leaves the norm. But the effect is tremendous.

I have one group that did this and the core group only chipped in for expenses of the building and equipment while anyotner people that joined after that were charged a fee. From there it grows by leaps and bounds. Let me know what you think.

Question to all:
In regards to the sensitivity training, do find it beneficial to blend or string together other drills in a continious flow. Such as hubud, pak tan pak (Pardon the spelling) , then maybe into a 5 or 10 stick drill done empty handed. I was just curious if you all agree with this method or if not, what are the down sides to this????
Thanks
Bob

I've just started training in the FMA, but I'll give this a shot :D

Yes, I think it is VERY beneficial to mix drills. We've gone from hubud, to knife-tapping, to sumbrada, to push-hands, and back to hubud. It gives you a greater variety of energies from which to base techniques off of and I feel would help you more in dealing with the unexpected in combat.

When doing sinawalli, I've watched the two FCS guros I train with mix up the high-low strikes of Heaven/Earth sinawalli, with one of them laying down, crouching, then standing, without interrupting the flow. Um, no...I can't do that yet :) They'll also flow seamlessly from sinawalli to sumbrada to hubud, without missing a beat. Since they are so familiar with the flow and energy, all they have to do is feel the feed and the change is automatic.

I also find (in my limited experience), that mixing the drills gives you a better appreciation for the individual drills that you've mixed. I often see that some of the drills are remarkably similar to each other, but with just enough of a twist to make them all seem totally different to the layperson.

Down sides? If you're a newbie to FMA like me, and try mixing drills that you haven't quite gotten down yet, you end up tangling yourself in knots (as I found out during my last training session). However, once you've got the drills down, hell yes! Mix them!

:D

Cthulhu

Originally posted by Cthulhu

Down sides? If you're a newbie to FMA like me, and try mixing drills that you haven't quite gotten down yet, you end up tangling yourself in knots (as I found out during my last training session). However, once you've got the drills down, hell yes! Mix them!
Cthulhu

For a newbie you sounded really good. I agree with your post. I was curious to see what others thought of doing that. Just trying to get a broader prespective on drills and sensitivity. This is a good thread............
I love all the drills, and especially the sensitivity aspect of it all. It is always fun to be working with a bunch of mean looking new guys, and tell them it is time for "sensitivity training", they just don't know what to think whether they are going to get in touch with their sensitives side or actually train martial arts...............
Thanks for you thoughts, good luck in your training....
Bob

I think to continue to se a training benefit, you have to add a mix into the drill. If Hubud is your base you add elements of trapping, dumog, HKE, knife stick etc. Sensitivity training is great and absoultly needed when training trapping but is 10 times more important when training the blade. Try gound fighting. Focus on takedowns with someone ending up in the guard or mount and hubud from there, now add a knife or any knife sensitivity drill. Have fun with it

Originally posted by IFAJKD
I think to continue to se a training benefit, you have to add a mix into the drill. If Hubud is your base you add elements of trapping, dumog, HKE, knife stick etc. Sensitivity training is great and absoultly needed when training trapping but is 10 times more important when training the blade. Try gound fighting. Focus on takedowns with someone ending up in the guard or mount and hubud from there, now add a knife or any knife sensitivity drill. Have fun with it

Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated!!!
quick question, what does HKE stand for???

Bob

Sorry, I get that sometimes and I should learn......
simply
Headbutts, Knees and Elbows. I really believe that these are without doubt the major combative tools you can have and to leave them out of sensitivity training is a bad decision.

Thanks, and I agree
I have been on both ends HKE and they are great tools....

Thanks again, great info!!!

Bob

I love sensitivity drills. Especially when the person your training with has no sensitivity. :) I was teaching an aikido class recently and introduced the concept of sensitivity during a couple of movements. Cripe, it was like a light went on over their heads! It appeared that they had never heard of this or thought of it. This was especially interesting because there was a person in the class who out rankes me. Their movement noticably improved and they could apply the technique much more easily. This illustrates the importance of cross training also, me thinks. :D

Originally posted by Mao
I love sensitivity drills. Especially when the person your training with has no sensitivity. :) I was teaching an aikido class recently and introduced the concept of sensitivity during a couple of movements. Cripe, it was like a light went on over their heads! It appeared that they had never heard of this or thought of it. This was especially interesting because there was a person in the class who out rankes me. Their movement noticably improved and they could apply the technique much more easily. This illustrates the importance of cross training also, me thinks. :D

Unfortunately, until recently, I was one of those people who had little sensitivity and I still get smacked around by the two FCS guros I train with :)

I think aikido people, particularly the higher ranked, need some sensitivity so they can adjust their techniques to inexperienced or smart-aleck uke who give them the wrong energy. If said uke is supposed to be giving you shomen uchi, and try changing it to something else when nage grabs them, then the nage should be able to feel that and adjust accordingly. That being said, I think the higher ranked aikido people do tend to develop that given time; it's just not explicitly trained like the FMA. Or maybe it is, but I just don't know any better :)

Cthulhu

cthulu,
Your right. There are alot of higher ranking aikidoka that do not use much control, or they get disgusted when working with a beginner because they can't rock. I think the importance of working with beginners is far reaching. It helps to develope some control, it helps to develope some tolerance for those who have not been training too long, it helps to develope the ability to teach, and it helps to develope patience. The beginner has more to offer than they usually know. Sometimes when a higher ranking person is amidst some beginners, their ego gets the best of them. That's when the teacher should step in. :D Perhaps use them as uke for the next movement. :D That wasn't very nice, was it? :rolleyes:

Mao,

I think one of the reasons the FCS guys like training with me is because they can better utilize their sensitivity. Both of them have such good 'neutral' energy, and they are so familiar with each other, they have to work hard to find each others' weaknesses. Me, they smack around at will :D

Cthulhu

reviving thread :)

what do new members think about this drill?