Advice for a slow learner

[mijemi]

Hi,
I've only been studying karate for about 4-5 months and really enjoy it most of the time. The problem is I often am slow to grasp new techniques especially when dealing with a partner. I can learn a kata or set techniques but cringe everytime we're asked to improvise with a counter attack or something like that. I don't know if it's being over cautious or scared but I was hoping maybe someone out there had some advice on what to do to help or whether it will just come in time?
Thanks,
Shell.

[Ping898]

Well I think the first thing to remember is not to get discouraged, you are still pretty new to MA and like anything new, it takes time to grasp it. Some of this will porbably get easier in time especially as you get a bigger set of knowledge. In the mean time, you say you have problems with coming up with a counter attack off the top of you head, so personally I would practice that. Everyday you practice, I would pick one attack and think of 5 different defenses/counter attacks I could do and practice them. Eventually you will find that it is easier to think of your response to the attack and you will take some pressure off yourself in class by having a set of defenses to multiple attacks that you have already worked...

[bushidomartialarts]

my best advice would be to relax. if you relax a bit in class, you'll find yourself better able to improvise.

and if you relax about where you're 'supposed' to be and just learn at your pace, you'll find that you enjoy the experience more as you go along.

trust yourself. your mind knows how fast you should take stuff in. let it keep you going just exactly that fast.

[michaeledward]

At this point, .....

You should "cringe" every time you're asked to improvise a response. With four or five months of training, you are in no position to be able to react spontaneously. You are just beginning to learn how to move your body in defensive and offensive manners.

In American Kenpo, we are taught "prescribed responses for prescribed attacks". Something like .... You attempt to push my chest with both hands and your left foot forward ... and I counter by stepping back with my left foot while executing a left inward block. ... We will need to run that sequence of moves at least a hundred times before I even begin to start to 'Get It'.

In time, we will go through enough of these prescribed scenarios, often enough, so that I will begin to recognize body positions .... Hey, when I get to this part of this technique, we are both in the same position as that other technique. I bet I could change from this one to that one right here ... When we begin to have a catalogue of body positions in our training, we will begin to be able to choose a course of action from several perscriptions.

Eventually, you'll learn that all of those different defense moves we have learned can be blended together depending upon our body position, the aggressors' body position and the environment. At this point, we will be able to respond spontaneously. We will be able to strike the attacker in a manner to get a desired response to set up another strike.

If you are a very good student, and you have a very good teacher, I would tell you to expect years ... several years ... or more, before you can spontaneously respond to an improvised attack effectively.

Keep showing up. Keep cringing. Eventually, it will become more natural. And then, no doubt, you'll learn something new that makes it all seem un-natural all over again.

Good Luck ... and keep up the Good Work.

Mike

[Tez3]

That's exactly how I was when I started! I promise it does honestly get better. It really is a case of practice, practice and more practice. The moves become more and more instinctive until it actually gets quite funny when a friend taps you to catch your attention, you go to block then punch! If you can, have a look at a much newer beginner than yourself, you will surprise yourself by how much you do know (sometimes when you are feeling discouraged it helps to see how far you have come, it's not putting down beginners, it's just a reminder) don't worry, do relax, you will make it!

[terryl965]

That's exactly how I was when I started! I promise it does honestly get better. It really is a case of practice, practice and more practice. The moves become more and more instinctive until it actually gets quite funny when a friend taps you to catch your attention, you go to block then punch! If you can, have a look at a much newer beginner than yourself, you will surprise yourself by how much you do know (sometimes when you are feeling discouraged it helps to see how far you have come, it's not putting down beginners, it's just a reminder) don't worry, do relax, you will make it!

I can only relate to what she and the others have said. It will get better it does for everybody

[searcher]

michaeledward has stated it best. Right now you need to be focusing on your basics and your set self-defense techniques. I teach what is called my "base 20." It is twenty self-defense sets that I use to build off other, more advanced sets. My students have to know these without thinking before they are allowed to move to the advanced. After they have the advanced, then they get to improvise. I have had so many say, what if? This is similar to what you are going through. Right now you have no what ifs and no place improvising sets. JMHO.

[donna]

Hi mijemi, I agree with what has been said. Try to relax more and enjoy the moment while you train, as you relax more you will find things begin to stick in your memory better. It does get easier as you go along, and looking at people "newer" than yourself does indeed help your self confidence a lot. :)

[Tez3]

Looking into the future too these difficulties will make you a better teacher! I'm an instructor now and because I can remember exactly what it was like (still is to be honest when I have to learn new things) I can take beginners through things and find ways to help that I wouldn't have known otherwise. I used to envy a fellow student who whizzed through evry movement with ease and was sparring long before me but oh dear if he has to teach, which isn't often, he loses patience and gets a real strop on through lack of understanding the difficulty that other srudents have sometimes.

[Cirdan]

I think Anko Itosu said it best.

"Karate cannot be quickly learned. Like a slow moving bull, it eventually travels a thousand miles. If one trains diligently everyday, then in three or four years one will come to understand karate. Those who train in this fashion will discover karate."

[Drac]

Well I think the first thing to remember is not to get discouraged, you are still pretty new to MA and like anything new, it takes time to grasp it...


Yes, yes to Ping you must listen as he speaks the truth...

[exile]

I think Anko Itosu said it best.

"Karate cannot be quickly learned. Like a slow moving bull, it eventually travels a thousand miles. If one trains diligently everyday, then in three or four years one will come to understand karate. Those who train in this fashion will discover karate."

I like the one from Musashi Miyamoto:

I know that it seems difficult at the beginning. But what you must remember is, EVERYTHING seems difficult at the beginning.

And ain't it the truth.... :asian:

[IWishToLearn]

I have a student who has termed herself "co-ordinationally retarded" heh. She told me that when she started in June that she didn't think she'd ever be able to grasp the basic stances because she just cannot get her body to do what her brain tells it to do no matter which sport or exercise she tried. I agreed to give it a shot with her, and off we went. This is now November, and she's got all of her stances down, all of her blocks, 3/4 of her strikes, and half of her maneuvering down for her first belt rank. I pulled her aside last week and mentioned - yanno for someone who claims to be co-ordinationally retarded, I have to say you're moving very well and you understand what you're doing, which is even more important. She lit up with understanding.

Where I'm going with this is that all of us learn at different paces. Thus far I've never met anyone who simply cannot learn to defend themselves through the martial arts. It merely takes a teacher competent enough to use methods of instruction that will match how the student learns, while simultaneously ensuring they receive enough material for the given moment and planting the seeds for future comprehension.

You'll get it - stick with it and bug your teacher for more information - look for the How, the Why, and the What of anything you're doing so your body will ingrain it. Then, several months, actually probably several years down the road it'll be so ingrained you won't have to conciously think about your reactions and responses to stimuli, they'll be there.

Good luck with your training!

[Jade Tigress]

With the all the good replies already given I don't have anything to add other than to reiterite that it does get easier. Don't be too hard on yourself, we've all been there (and I'm still there most of the time). :)

[exile]

With the all the good replies already given I don't have anything to add other than to reiterite that it does get easier. Don't be too hard on yourself, we've all been there (and I'm still there most of the time). :)

For many (most?) of us, the better we get, the more we become aware of how good it's possible to be, and measure ourselves against that continually increasing standard... with the result that we always feel we're falling short of the goal. MAists tend to be perfectionists---and perfectionism, while it can be a good servant, is a really bad master---I see it with graduate students all the time, some of the very best paralyze themselves with impossible demands that they make on themselves, and become unproductive till they shake themselves out of it. Slow and steady wins the race every time... go a bit easier on yourself and you'll actually make more progress, very often (as so many of the previous posts have been saying :)).

[still learning]

Hello, Many times you want to know how you are doing in the martial arts training?

It is looking back to where you started, see where you are now....then you will know...you have improve and have being learning. Looking back and seeing yourself now.....is one of the best ways to see improvement.

Great post above and great advice from those who post early. Martial art training takes time, (Everything is new) to the body and mind.

Enjoy the training....one day (years from now), you will look back when you where still in the white belt days, Wow...I have taken a wonderful journey....in the martial arts.

To better oneself is to keep doing the things that will make you BETTER!

.....So do better,become better,get better,train better, will give you BETTER RESULTS! .....Better end here.....Aloha

[thewhitemikevick]

Just calm down about it. Slow it all down. There is no aspect of your art that should be rushed, so take it slow. Take a seat and look at what is around you. For some people, they are quick learners. But this does not make them GOOD learners. If you REALLY apply yourself as best you can, you will accomplish things just as, and if not, more effeciently than even the fastest learners in your class. Now really, take a seat and look at what is around you. Watch some of your classmates spar if you can. Observe the movements delicately. You will witness counterattacks, correct? Take these to heart, my friend. Be mindful. Your focus determines your reality, so really embrace this level of focus to the highest degree. Don't just watch them sparring, understand the sparring. Take it all in. You can be a slow learner, but if you sit down and watch a thousand spars with counterattacks all fused within here and there, you'll pick up on it a little. If you don't have the ability to watch as many spars live, go on youtube or something and watch sparring online. Whatever you can do. Put in the extra hours; work with dedication and you WILL be rewarded. That's what martial arts is: dedication. So embrace it and you won't be dissapointed. The more and more sparring with counterattacking that you observe, and understand, the easier it will be for you to spot counters and exploit them. You see, when your master says to "improvise" a counter, it's really not improvisation at all. It's a circle. The same things happen again and again. Maybe in different order. Maybe in different ways. But the fact remains that if you can prearrange contributing one counter to a certain attack or situation in your head before the improvisation, then the improvisation won't be improvisation at all, it'll be second nature. Embrace the dedication and you'll embrace the vision. But just take it slow.

[ArmorOfGod]

I have two tips:
First, start a journal/diary. I have kept extensive notes since day one of my training back in 1991. This helped me a lot. I can only learn what I can read or visualize. My notes made this possible.

Second is just relax. Improvization moves will come later. You will gradually increase the quality of your personal taijutsu (body movement) as time goes on and if you practice.

Now, go practice!
;-)

AoG

[thewhitemikevick]

Very good idea. I myself have been thinking about doing something similar in starting a diary/journal of my martial arts progress/training...the notes could surely help. Would allow you to look at things in a different perspective further a long down the road when you look back, and could also help refresh your memory for when you review the notes...take you right back to the moment where you learned it all. If you take good enough notes, of course.

[Touch Of Death]

Positional awarenes is not something you will get from your intructor. Stop waiting for him to tell you the best way. Pick a target and move from point of origin. Practice with varying starting positions.
Sean

[tshadowchaser]

The journal/diary is one of the best ways to keep track of what you have been shown, It also gives you a reference months or years from now on how something was taught . It also reminds you of the friends that where with you in those days.

Trying to hard is a problem many beginners have so as ArmorOfGod has said relax a little and time and experience will do much of the rest

[Paul B]

I wouldn't consider myself to be too quick on the uptake as well..so what I would suggest is relatively simple..keep training.

A lot of frustration that I hear from people is them expecting to pick something up on their first or second try. MA just doesn't work like that..remember that it is an acquired skill.

Also remember that while you mught not be the quickest study..you can be one of the most thorough..so pay extra close attention in class and ask questions about any problems with technique you might be having. I'm sure your instructor(s) would be happy to help out someone who showed a little motivation to actually learn the technique.

But regardless,you eventually have to learn by doing..so keep on training.:)

[thewhitemikevick]

It's all about persistance. To keep trying to do something, even when it seems like you CAN'T do it. Because the fact is, you CAN. Solong as you keep trying and don't give up. It may seem as though you are doing poorly in the undertaking of a new martial art, when in fact you are soon to blossom. Keep at it. Things will come together with just a little time. You'll be surprised. I know I was.

[mijemi]

Thanks all. It hasn't been long since I posted this original thread but already I'm seeing the results of putting your advice into practice. Sensei has noticed great improvement in the last three months. Woohoo! Thanks for the support.

[exile]

Thanks all. It hasn't been long since I posted this original thread but already I'm seeing the results of putting your advice into practice. Sensei has noticed great improvement in the last three months. Woohoo! Thanks for the support.

Good to hear that! Something I've found repeatedly is that things aren't as hard as you think they are, and as they seem at first. Remember your experiences now if, later on, you find yourself getting frustrated with a plateau problem at an advanced level of training... that too can be overcome just as this can be. Progress seems to go in steps, regardless of the activity---I've found it in alpine skiing, weight training and the MAs, and in all kinds of other things...

[Grenadier]

Don't worry about having that unease when improvising. You'll get over it with time, experience, and patience. It may not come in a day, a week, a month, or even several months, but with dedication and persistence, it will.

Ask your instructor to break things down, step-by-step. While this is more common for basic techniques, there's absolutely no reason why it can't be applied to more advanced ones as well. Many of your instructors have probably gone through the same thing at one time or another.

If anything, it's those same instructors who had a hard time as students, that can become excellent teachers, since they can relate to someone who has been struggling with various things.

[empty cup]

Give your self a break--Martial arts are hard to learn. As has already been said at 4-5 months you are really just scratching the surface. You are learning a whole new physical vocabulary. Let go of the fact that there will always be somebody that learns the technique faster than you--so what!. This is your journy not theirs. It takes as long as it takes.

As corny as it sounds it really is the journey not the destination.


ps. As far as the getting nervous and tensing up goes I always find that it helps if I can make sure I am breathing from my lower belly as opposed to up in my chest--trust me it works.


pps. I am also a slow learner (really slow!!). I have also frozen up - In front of masters from China who are the lineage holders for our style who wanted me to demonstrate our first form. I knew it but instantly foregot it and froze up. So don't feel bad.

[shrek]

I may get toasted for this but...watch a few karate or Chuck Norris movies. You will recognize the moves that you are learning in class and see implementation in a graphic nature of what you are learning through kata.

I can remember seeng Jackie Chan do a particular move and thinking "AH, so THAT'S how that works!"

[Tez3]

I may get toasted for this but...watch a few karate or Chuck Norris movies. You will recognize the moves that you are learning in class and see implementation in a graphic nature of what you are learning through kata.

I can remember seeng Jackie Chan do a particular move and thinking "AH, so THAT'S how that works!"

I was reading recently that when martial artists or dancers are watching moves that they know their brain activity reads as if they were doing the moves themselves! Watching unfamiliar moves didn't cause the same brain activity.
I agree with watching Jackie Chan etc films. I think because the fights are cheorographed to look good on screen they perform the techniques so that they can be seen easily which gives you a good chance to see what they are. In a real fight/training situation, it's fast and furious sometimes and you can't see the moves properly. Besides the films are great entertainment!

[Trent]

All great advice above, and I'll chime in as well with the only thing I know to offer in addition-- don't quit no matter how awkward you think you are, or feel. Just keep at it and it will melt away with each training session; barely noticeable at first, but eventually you will find yourself more and more coordinated and dextrous.

[kidswarrior]

ArmorOfGod[/b];668213]I have two tips:
First, start a journal/diary. I have kept extensive notes since day one of my training back in 1991. This helped me a lot. I can only learn what I can read or visualize. My notes made this possible.
AoG

Excellent advice, as tshadowchaser also seconded.

If I had to pick one thing that I have some measure of expertise in, it would be helping those (professionally: teens) who have not been able to learn in traditional settings (read: don't learn the same way as the majority of those around them). I could write a whole book on this--oh wait, I did :wink2:. But then discovered that not many people care about those of us who are different kinds of learners (witness my $239.00 or so in total royalties:ultracool). So, given all that, what I'm saying is I agree that AoG is on to something.

Here is how I would encourage you to proceed.

Ask yourself, 'Do I mostly remember things by seeing them written, hearing them, or by doing them myself.'

A couple of quick ancedotes: for years (decades, really:p) my wife would give me a short list of things to pick up at the store--but not on paper, she'd just tell me because after all, what fool can't remember a list of 5-7 things, especially when she had me repeat it back to her? Well, this fool. Time after time I'd come home without something, or with the wrong brand. I felt totally humiliated. I was an educated man! Finally, I worked up the courage to ask her to write it down. Immediately, no matter how obscure the item, or how dificult to locate (and for some of us guys, a supermarket can be intimidating!), I was flawless (applause here is OK :boing2: ).

The point: I remember almost nothing anyone says, but almost everything someone writes, and even more if I rewrite it. And if I really want to picture the whole list, or page of notes or whatever in my head later, I'll use highlighters (my wife says I color all my books--as in coloring books... well, you see what she means). So, as AoG said, I have shelves full of notebooks with MA notes I took after classes, watching others doing MA, from seminars, tapes, whatever. And when I go to search for some old piece of info, I first remember the color and place on the page it's on. Can then just scan the likely notebooks (or books) to quickly locate the info.

Second anecdote: When I was 15, got my first job at a service station (no, not a gas station, a service station--we cleaned the windows, checked under the hood, would even check the air in all the tires--Hah! most of you thought that was just something in the movies, didn't you? Admit it). One thing we kids did in the full service bay (most service stations had full time mechanics, too) was change tires. OK, here's my point: over the course of my first few weeks the owner changed three or four tires while I watched. Then one day, he pushed me to the changing rack and said, 'You do it.' I had no clue. Not being a nice man, he said some not nice things, pushed me to the side, and did it himself. The point: I don't learn by watching someone else do things. I have to do it along with them, then try it, and not just once, either.

So what do I now know about how I learn? I need visual and kinesthetic input to remember things (and we all need repetition).

Others are extremely aural learners. I remember a pair of students I had years ago who were deemed 'thowaways' (yes, there was some fancy educationese for it, but same result) because they couldn't read the textbooks. Well, one day I got busy with someone else and turned to the oppostie side of the room for a couple of minutes. And in that time, when I turned back to that side of the room they were huddled in a corner, sitting on the floor together, taking turns reading the book out loud to each other. Suddenly they could not only read, they could read at grade level and retain content in the various subjects! Totally aural. And I was a genius--well, at least a legend in my own mind.

I'll stop now before some wit scoffs that this is really an attempt at another book (some of you already did, didn't you :goop:). But this is all with the best intent: everyone can learn, if we can just learn how they/we learn best. Then, as so many here have said, give it time. It's not a race. Enjoy the process.

Best wishes in your journey. Please keep us posted (promise I'll never write this much again :)). Feel free to PM me anytime, too.

KW

[xTNVx NirVana]

Hi,
I've only been studying karate for about 4-5 months and really enjoy it most of the time. The problem is I often am slow to grasp new techniques especially when dealing with a partner. I can learn a kata or set techniques but cringe everytime we're asked to improvise with a counter attack or something like that. I don't know if it's being over cautious or scared but I was hoping maybe someone out there had some advice on what to do to help or whether it will just come in time?
Thanks,
Shell.
Just keep practicing. By the time your a green belt, you'll be a little Jackie Chan *Your results may vary :highfive:*