Question about adrenaline rushes [Archive] - MartialTalk.Com

Carbon

10-11-2002, 08:47 PM

I know alot of people experience this and such, but I was wondering what is a good way to control emotions when fighting in a real situation.

You know how most fights start in anger, I can easily tell when I'm mad/nervous at the same time since my cheeck twitches.

This is weird that it twitches, I brought this up since I was looking at some kid in school after he got in the face of my friend and he started talking trash.

I know he wasn't going to try to fight me, since he walked away instead of getting in my face, but this still gave me an adrenaline rush and made me nervous.

I have never been in a "real" fight with someone I don't know and haven't hit anyone bare fist in the face. So I am wondering what are ways to overcome this?

I know friends who will fight out of no where and don't think twice about hitting someone in the face.

Damian Mavis

10-11-2002, 11:27 PM

Experience. I used to freeze up alot when I got the adrenaline rush but now I stay focused and ready. Plus just be aware of it, the first step to controlling it is knowing it is coming when you get in a stressful situation. If you count on it coming then it won't affect you as much when it's there.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Carbon

10-12-2002, 12:18 AM

Thanks, its hard to do stuff about it.

Its annoying that my cheek twitches and I am wondering if its ovbious to other people.

karatekid1975

10-12-2002, 12:37 AM

I noticed today with my partner in class. His hands twitched when he got nervous. We were only doing pad drills. He did his thing, then he held the pad for me and he was twitching. The pad was all over the place (mind you I'm a green belt. He's a red belt). He had good power, but I think he was affraid of me ..... why???? I just a rookie LOL.

Anyways, I have fought in defense on the street. I can't really remember if I was nervous. I just re-acted. Maybe it was because my TSD instructor always drilled the self defense techs with us. Almost every class, we learned some kind of self defense. I think that's why I just "re-acted".

Damian Mavis

10-12-2002, 12:44 AM

If the situation happens fast theres no time for adrenaline and nervousness. What Carbon is talking about is the anger/stress/fear and adrenaline dump that comes from aniticipation of violence.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

ace

10-12-2002, 01:23 AM

U must learn to relax
Fear is ok it keeps us on our toes.
But do not let it consume U.

Anger can be the enemy in a fight.
Try & remain calm u will fight better.

If U get to excited U can gas out real quick.

My Father U alway yelled at me as a kid
He shouted Tranquilo Tranquilo

Which means Relax Relax
He always said to stay Focused

I keep his words in my head.
They make sence to me know.:cheers:
:cheers:
Wicked Sweet

KennethKu

10-12-2002, 02:55 AM

Adrenaline rush causes the blood vessels in my face to constrict and my face would turn sheet white. Usually that would freak the bastards out, thinking that I might drop dead or something :rolleyes: :D , and I would walk away winning by default. :D

Carbon

10-12-2002, 07:58 AM

Lol :)

It just makes me think why this kid would talk crap to me after he almost got in a fight with 3 other people when playing basketball.

Its funny though, but twitching is quite a good indicator that I need to calm down.

I think if I worked on it that I could probably have more self control.

It was a freshmen and I'm a senior I guess he was just caught up in the moment.

TkdWarrior

10-12-2002, 08:39 AM

when it happens normally ppl freezes...
anyway if the situation is on ur head u hav around 3-4 secs in which u can react, the aderaline rush will occur only when u hav realized the situation and realizes u r in deep *****...
it can be avoided by meditation u get more intuitive with it...
develop something called "Sixth Sense" which will help u in controlling situation...
basically everyone has this "Sixth Sense" but not many ppl understand its language...
-TkdWarrior-

Kong

10-12-2002, 10:05 AM

Breath control is very important in dealing with stress/adrenalin, Qigong could be very helpful in developing the ability to stay calm and control your body`s reactions to stressful situations. At least that`s my experience.

Humble artist

10-12-2002, 10:11 AM

This is quite a large subject on it´s own with psychological and physiological things in it.
But if what you´re after is how to deal with adrenaline rush/stress effects then,basically,training which relates and simulates this kind of thing is the way to go.
Only all "real" way to this would be to actually get into a life threatening situation but that is not what a balanced person is looking for.Any good training in your MA will teach you confidence over your fears and natural,subconcious responses for such threats and therefore prepare you in a way,for best of stimulation it would be good to spar when you can etc. as this is what is likely to bring such feelings on top of you (remember fear is a valuable thing and should not be ignored,but as constant thing taking advantage it can cause both mental&physical health damage)
Having some quickly building up adrenaline (-&related stress hormones and symptoms) will boost your blood circulation and within bringing you more speed and power for either running or defending (such situation may also cause many to freeze up trough this nervous energy,which training helps with I believe)
When it comes to negative things,it will also rob you off fine motor skills and cause various natural,instinctive reactions like trembling and cold hands,dry mouth and upset stomach until the situation is over and your state returns to normal trough some similar effects.
As if you are,and hopefully are interested in this in medical and related ways I recommend you to study on this issue (it might help you to understand it as a whole,read yourself and as a very important thing also to learn read opponent´s body language and non-verbal cues which are closely related to this)
That might be helpful for you,also remembering that control of this issue can also be approached trough proper mechanics of breathing and other things.
I hope this is at least part what you might be looking for,if not we can go on with this if you wish.

:asian:

Carbon

10-12-2002, 01:47 PM

Would training also be a way to overcome hitting someone in the face?

I have never hit anyone bare knuckle before, and when you picture it in your mind I have the fear that I won't beable to do any damage and that my efforts will be fruitless in the attempt to fend of an attacker.

Or if you dream about a fight, usually in my dreams when I hit someone its very slow like someone has it on freeze frame.

muayThaiPerson

10-13-2002, 01:24 AM

Carbon,

dude, i know EXACTLY how u feel. trust me, u wont overcome this unless u get into a few fights. this fear can exist for years.

what u need to do is to keep distance and be open about being ready to defend youself. NEVER EVER hit the guy first becuase yull be in such a rush that u wont know what to do next.

what i do, and it indeed does work is to not be urself at the moment. i imagine myself in a 3rd person veiw looking at how great my form is.

heres reality:
1) you will get hit atleast once
2) ur gonna react to instinct
3) ur probably gonna panic

my advice is for u to think of what ur doing to him and not what hes doing to u

Damian Mavis

10-13-2002, 01:40 AM

"trust me, u wont overcome this unless u get into a few fights"

That's like, the worst advice I've ever heard.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

TkdWarrior

10-13-2002, 01:48 AM

i agree with damien...
it would be too stupid to go out on streets and ask for fights...
-TkdWarrior-

Nightingale

10-13-2002, 01:50 AM

personally, when I had to use MA, the adrenaline didn't hit me til after. during, it was just action and reaction, and I don't even completely remember, but the adrenaline rush didn't happen til I was safe and started thinking about the "what ifs"

Damian Mavis

10-13-2002, 02:04 AM

I'll just repost what I said earlier in the thread.

"If the situation happens fast theres no time for adrenaline and nervousness. What Carbon is talking about is the anger/stress/fear and adrenaline dump that comes from aniticipation of violence."

There's 2 types of encounters. Instant ones where you barely have time to think and the slow build up ones where people talk ***** for 5 minutes before someone takes a swing.

No offence to the ladies on our forum but I'm not surprised both of you in this thread have only had instant self defence experiences. I think it's rare if ever that a man will build up to a fight with a woman. But that is a VERY common event for men... we go through that crap all throughout our childhood and right into adulthood. When a man attacks a woman it's usually for a sinister goal, when a man gets aggressive to the point of fighting with another man it's usually based on an ego problem.

I just thought it was interesting getting this perspective from the ladies as I think it demonstrates the different worlds we live in. Most women have no idea what it's like to have someone turn to you and say "what're you looking at?!" But I think every man on this forum will admit to having something similar happen to them at least once in their lives. It is followed by that adrenaline and nervous anger/fear that I remember all too fondly from my younger years.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Nightingale

10-13-2002, 02:08 AM

It really depends on the situation. If its a random attack on a woman, then your theory would be correct.

however, if its a domestic violence incident, or if the person has been violent before, it presents another situation entirely, because those situations usually start out as arguments and escalate to violence.

TkdWarrior

10-13-2002, 02:10 AM

carbon
u need little bit of confidence first...
1. so start training hard...gave time to conditoin ur body(shin,arms.abdomen)
2. start meditation...
3. visualize that u won't be DEAD...
and as i said earlier that aderaline rush didn't happen for first 2-4 seconds it happens when u realise u r in deep trouble(i m sayin after reading some research material by dude, dam i forgot his name n it's my experience too)
the last time i had fight it was like 2 guys tryin to overpower me... first arguing started... as soon as they start shoving around i knew wat i had to do...so they wer down in matter of seconds. i remember(side effect of figt :D) i got Football Type Kick around my thighs but it didn't stoped me...
4. try to improve on reflexes too
do one drill stand in horse riding stance and from shoulder hieght u drop one coin and from other hand(which is on waist) try to grab....u can make this advace by giving the coin to another person and u catch with either hand...
then u can add shout or any word before shootin for catch...
ur hand-eye coordination will improve...
remember it's the attitude and will which will carry u thru diversity not courage...
any questions u can always PM me...
regards.
-TkdWarrior-

TkdWarrior

10-13-2002, 02:14 AM

hmm damien pointed out rite thing...my encounter acc to him was second kind...
anyways on another type of encounters it's difficult remain unhurt but again hand-eye coordination will help so does will to survive.
-TkdWarrior-

Damian Mavis

10-13-2002, 02:21 AM

Ya a domestic violence situation is kind of similar. It's a little different because it's someone you know/love but probably the same feelings come into play with the anticipation of violence. The reason I think it is different is people get an adrenaline rush and anxiety because they might have to fight and are building up to possibly committing violence themselves. For a woman in a domestic abuse situation it's more along the lines of fearing for ones own safety with no option to fight back or defend yourself. Meaning no anxiety or dump for fighting but more straight up fear of getting hurt period.

I remember when I was a a very small kid there was a period of time my mother was in a depression and I was in a constant state of fear at home. She was always ready to set off and I had to walk on eggshells to try not to anger her. To this day I can remember the fear constantly under all my other feelings, always terrified of doing the wrong thing. Day in and day out. Thankgod that didn't last for too long. I can imagine a domestic abuse situation is kind of similar... it makes me very sad just thinking about what some women go through.

Damian Mavis
Honor TKD

muayThaiPerson

10-13-2002, 02:48 AM

it would be too stupid to go out on streets and ask for fights...

i never advised him to ask for fights. i was saying after a few fights, the fear isnt as bad

J-kid

10-13-2002, 04:05 AM

Since i am almost 16 and i am really into ufc and that sort of stuff. I came across this problem a wall ago. This is how i deal with it i train hard. A good idea is to spar full contact or work your way up with slap boxing and then go gloves full contact, It didnt take me very long to get over Adernaline Dump as i call it, The adrenaline is your bodys way of trying to get you out of this situation that your brain dosnt wanna be in , Where your subconsise feels you will be harmed . Trian hard and train to fight. The way to counter the Adrenaline Dump is to keep relaxed when you get a Adrenaline dump you get tired faster , Gain some strength but at the same time you lose some speed and it becomes harder to react. Your muscles start to porduce this chemical (i forgot the name of ) and this does some diffrent stuff , Anyhow train for FULL contact and you should see 100% inprovement in the fact you wont get much of a adrenaline dump once your used to it. HOPE THIS HELPS YOU!

sammy3170

10-13-2002, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

If the situation happens fast theres no time for adrenaline and nervousness.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

This is incorrect. What do you think the fight or flight response is? Once you are in a situation the dump happens regardless of how fast it occurs. It just manifests itself differently in different people.

Cheers
Sammy

sammy3170

10-13-2002, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by nightingale8472

personally, when I had to use MA, the adrenaline didn't hit me til after. during, it was just action and reaction, and I don't even completely remember, but the adrenaline rush didn't happen til I was safe and started thinking about the "what ifs"

I agree. I had an altercation with a group of kids (15 or so) and there were about 4 of us. We pretty much talked the situation down and saved one poor kid from a beating but a couple of kids hung around and were mouthing off and wouldn't leave. They both turned to me and they were a bit smaller so I wasn't about to hit them and after some firm verbal encouragment they left. When we got back to my friends house I dumped hard. My hands were shaking and I was was absolutely amped. We heard that they had knives and maybe it was the what ifs that caused the dump. Regardless of anything I know the symptoms of the adrenal dump make it hard to fight so I'm glad it came later.

Cheers
Sammy

sammy3170

10-13-2002, 06:51 AM

I know my last two posts sound contradicory but if you are threatened very suddenly you will be effected by adrenalin whether positively or negatively.

The altercation that I got into wasn't that physically threatening and we did instigate it to protect the young kid getting chased. It was mostly verbal and I believe there in lies the difference.

Cheers
Sammy

7starmantis

10-13-2002, 09:56 AM

I know exactly what your talking about, I have felt this many times, in fact, I think any and ever time I have ever been in an encounter on the street, it has happened. I think to a point if you don't feel anything at all, that is just as much a problem as feeling it too much. I guess the point is to control it, through breathing, think your situation through completely, that works great for me. While the "other guy" is spouting off and talking crap, I'm surveying the area, the ground type, are there other people around the area, if so could they possibly get involved? Is the ground level, is there space to avoid and run if possible, what about the guy, does he carry himself athleticaly? I also think through the situation in terms of why its happening. I look in his eyes and try to decide if this is something he is doing to look tough in front of someone, this would tie in with surveying the surrounding area. Is he just a pissed off person and looking to fight, things like that, they will help you stay in control of the situation, and surprisingly help you talk yourslef out of alot of fights if you try hard enough.

7sm

Carbon

10-13-2002, 12:29 PM

Ya the dumps are bad. I weak in my legs after the dump is over like it took all the energy out of my body.

Most people are just trying to look tought infront of someone else I think.

I mean I doubt alot of people want to actually fight, I mean I don't want to get in fights, because in fear that someone is going to get hurt and it might be me.

Ya its alot different. If your nervous about how well someone can fight and they are a hard @$$ and get in your face and start talkign crap its hard to decide what to do.

Like right in your face spitting on you, stuff like that it makes it even worse and to remain calm is something that someone who knew they couldn't take him would try to get out.

I'm not saying that you should start a fight just because someoen got in your face but to try and disrespect you infront of friends/family I would say hitting him once might not be so bad.

7starmantis

10-13-2002, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Carbon

Ya the dumps are bad. I weak in my legs after the dump is over like it took all the energy out of my body.

Most people are just trying to look tought infront of someone else I think.

I mean I doubt alot of people want to actually fight, I mean I don't want to get in fights, because in fear that someone is going to get hurt and it might be me.

Ya its alot different. If your nervous about how well someone can fight and they are a hard @$$ and get in your face and start talkign crap its hard to decide what to do.

Like right in your face spitting on you, stuff like that it makes it even worse and to remain calm is something that someone who knew they couldn't take him would try to get out.

I'm not saying that you should start a fight just because someoen got in your face but to try and disrespect you infront of friends/family I would say hitting him once might not be so bad.

I think once you progress in MA you will understand more, but one hit might as well be 10 hits. You are fighting none-the-less. You are becoming as bad as them by fighting, and one hit is fighting, if you can't control yourself completely, you can't control yourself period.

7sm

GouRonin

10-13-2002, 12:45 PM

Go to google and do a search on "adrenaline dump" and use that as your springboard to understanding more on this issue. Your body has specific responses to it.

theneuhauser

10-13-2002, 12:52 PM

Since i was probably 6 or 8 years old, ive always smiled when i was in a scary situation. im not sure why i started doing this, but somehow i knew early on how to get my rush under control. a couple friends have tried it before (sort of an imitation of me as an inside joke) when they would get into it, and i think one of them is still smiling at people that want to take his head off. i dont know if it will work for you but you might want to give it a try. just smile! i guess it might sound a little silly to some of you, but it has several effects for me. 1-some people just cool off when they see me smile(fight's over). 2-some freak out because they think youre belittling them with your smile and they lose it totally(fight's over).3-it really calms me down and allows me to collect my agression and focus(fight's not over yet, but at least youre feeling good about yourself).

So give it a smile!

muayThaiPerson

10-13-2002, 01:24 PM

from what ive read, it seems to be all in the mind. if u train hard, youre confident about yourself. is that what u all mean? becuase with normal training, you ARE capable of edfeating the opponent.

jmho

7starmantis

10-13-2002, 01:31 PM

I think it is mainly mental. Breathing helps tremendously, but the trick to overcoming it is in your head. Accept it, don't try to stop it from happening, understand it and you will control it.

jmo
7sm

Damian Mavis

10-13-2002, 01:55 PM

Sammy, when I say instant I mean instant not "threatened very suddenly". I'm talking about when your attacked with no lead up, no warning and no time to think. If there's any kind of warning than you can feel the dump, the couple of times I've been jumped totally out of the blue I didn't feel it until after the event... mind you the event was only a few seconds long both times. And yes I'm talking about how you feel it not whether the chemical was actually released as all that matters is how it effects you at what point.

All the times I've been in a situation like Carbon's (the ***** talking leading up to the fight) I've felt that dump while anticipating violence.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

GouRonin

10-13-2002, 02:00 PM

It is not just a mental thing. Adrenaline is a physical chemical that your body secretes into it's system for a flight or fight syndrome and more. There are specific effects that it has on the body both with the oncoming rush and the resulting crash coming down.

While there are breathing excericises and mental work you can do to control it this does not mean that you will. Normal training in a gym, however hard, will not guarantee that you can deal with it any more than you would be able to deal with the effects of trying an illict drug like LSD for the first time. And do not kid yourself that it isn't a drug. It is.

Like any activity it must be experienced, analyzed, worked, and repeated. Any martial arts teacher who tells you otherwise is LYING to you. The whole concept of training "kicking in" is not as valid as you think because your own mind (fear of the unknown) and body (adrenaline dump effects) will defeat you.

I would love to hear from Ace on this as he has some valid MMA experience. While he might not be able to articulate the scientific events of what he felt he will definately be able to tell you how he felt. I have felt it in full contact boxing and it is very real.

7starmantis

10-13-2002, 02:03 PM

I have been thinking about this allot lately, kinda weird someone posted it! Do you think the "dump" is created because of our training and the mental awareness of what violence can do to you or others, either conscience or unconscious? I mean, do you think the punk who is walking up shouting his crap talk and diarrhea of the mouth, do you think he feels it the same? I mena do you think he feels the same "dump" of adrenaline before the fight? I dont' know what I think, I mean if they did wouldn't thye be pretty stupid to go ahead and start the fight?

7sm

GouRonin

10-13-2002, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Do you think the "dump" is created because of our training

No. It's a natural event of the human body in nature.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Do you think the "dump" is created because of the mental awareness of what violence can do to you or others, either conscience or unconscious?

Yes. The human body has it's own natural responses to danger.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
do you think the punk who is walking up shouting his crap talk and diarrhea of the mouth, do you think he feels it the same? I mena do you think he feels the same "dump" of adrenaline before the fight?

Yes. Maybe not to the same degree initially, maybe he has more experience with it and hence has more control, perhaps he bit off more than her can chew. In any case he will feel the same effects as you will unless he is from the planet Mars.

Or if it's that cold, unfeeling, inhuman, heartless biotch I call my ex-girlfriend.
:rofl:

7starmantis

10-13-2002, 03:18 PM

Yeah, while I agree with you in some areas, I have to disagree in others. While the "dump" is most deffinatly happening in terms of addrenaline being released in the mind, that is true, but in the terms of the feeling you receive from it, those differ in every person medicaly speaking. And while the body recognizes danger and reacts, that recognition of danger has to be acquired by the mind and body first. Ever seen a baby reach up and grab a hot stove? That same person as an adult will start to slip and fall reaching for the stove then unconsiously not grab the stove, but the chair sitting in front of it. While the person falling did not think to grab th chair instead because the stove would burn them, the body had been conditioned to recognize danger and react.
That is the same conditioning I think we as MAist have that others do not. We recognize a potentialy dangerous situation for what it is and alot of "street fighters" at least young ones have not had the "privaledge" of knowing what a knee break can do to someone.

jmo
7sm

GouRonin

10-13-2002, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Yeah, while I agree with you in some areas, I have to disagree in others. While the "dump" is most deffinatly happening in terms of addrenaline being released in the mind, that is true, but in the terms of the feeling you receive from it, those differ in every person medicaly speaking.

Unless you have a radically different body structure than every other person on the planet then no, not you won't experience a different feeling. The human body does not secrete exact chemicals that affect everyone differently. What is different is the action taken in response to the danger based on experience.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
And while the body recognizes danger and reacts, that recognition of danger has to be acquired by the mind and body first. Ever seen a baby reach up and grab a hot stove? That same person as an adult will start to slip and fall reaching for the stove then unconsiously not grab the stove, but the chair sitting in front of it. While the person falling did not think to grab th chair instead because the stove would burn them, the body had been conditioned to recognize danger and react.

Their body has NOT been conditioned otherwise. Their mind has. Their body will react to the adrenaline the same way everytime until their body becomes accustomed to the surge. There are ways to control and reach this point such as desensitizing or dehumanizing the situation. Making it abstract. Breath or mind control are vehicle to these ends.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
That is the same conditioning I think we as MAist have that others do not.

No it is not. You can train day in and day out and until you experience the adrenaline dump and it's effects regularily and learn to do something such as disassociation you will not have that conditioning. 90% of martial artists do not train in this manner despite what they thik they are doing in their dojo. Police officers, firefighters, and the like do. That is why they have things like "Critical stress debriefing" sessions they use.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
We recognize a potentialy dangerous situation for what it is and alot of "street fighters" at least young ones have not had the "privaledge" of knowing what a knee break can do to someone. imo

Recognition is important as it triggers the adrenaline dump and resulting effects. But other than that you're wrong. Street fighters will deal far better with it just because they are street fighters. They have the surge and dump on a regular basis and have learned to manage it through whatever natural resource the use. Knowing what a knee break will do to someone doesn't mean anything if you never experience and re-experience the adrenaline dump to crash phenomona.

theneuhauser

10-13-2002, 04:01 PM

seriously, just smile.

nullifies "dumps" in the endocrine system, and your pants, too.

7starmantis

10-13-2002, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by GouRonin

Unless you have a radically different body structure than every other person on the planet then no, not you won't experience a different feeling. The human body does not secrete exact chemicals that affect everyone differently. What is different is the action taken in response to the danger based on experience.
Actually your very wrong on the secreation of adrenalines from the body. Thye do effect people differently in accordance with chemical body make up, genetics, even diet can effect it because of the different metals and vitamins in the body, all these effect the way the body handles the addrenalines and the "feeling" you get. We don't have to agree but trust me, from a medical standpoint your wrong in that assumption.

Originally posted by GouRonin

Their body has NOT been conditioned otherwise. Their mind has. Their body will react to the adrenaline the same way everytime until their body becomes accustomed to the surge. There are ways to control and reach this point such as desensitizing or dehumanizing the situation. Making it abstract. Breath or mind control are vehicle to these ends.

Your trying to seperate the body and the mind. What addrenaline you secreat is directly related to what your eyes see, your ears hear, your nose smells, all put together. Because the mind sends signals to your body to do a certain thing like raise a knee, or duck, before it sends sends the comprehendable signals, doesn't mean it isn't all started in the mind.

Originally posted by GouRonin

Recognition is important as it triggers the adrenaline dump and resulting effects. But other than that you're wrong. Street fighters will deal far better with it just because they are street fighters. They have the surge and dump on a regular basis and have learned to manage it through whatever natural resource the use. Knowing what a knee break will do to someone doesn't mean anything if you never experience and re-experience the adrenaline dump to crash phenomona.
I guess I can agree with you on that, but I wouldn't say the average person who flies off the handle at getting flipped off is an experienced street fighter. Plus, I have never had my knee crushed, I have never really crushed anyones knee, but I have set many a broken bone in the ER and I can tell you, knowing the results of that injury do make a difference in what you expect.

7starmantis

10-13-2002, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by theneuhauser

seriously, just smile.

nullifies "dumps" in the endocrine system, and your pants, too.

LMAO, I guess your right, it even works in debates too!!! :D

GouRonin

10-13-2002, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Actually your very wrong on the secreation of adrenalines from the body. Thye do effect people differently in accordance with chemical body make up, genetics, even diet can effect it because of the different metals and vitamins in the body, all these effect the way the body handles the addrenalines and the "feeling" you get. We don't have to agree but trust me, from a medical standpoint your wrong in that assumption.

I never trust anyone that says, "trust me."

With small variations the chemicals affecting the body and their results are not that different. An example might be muscle poisons and fatigue poisons such as lactic acid, that the body produces to stop the body from overworking itself will always be an end product of the Adrenaline Dump. (AD) An example might be that a certain abundance of a vitamin might produce a delay in the lactic acid production but it is still there. Yes there is variance but it still occurs nd for the same reason. So from a medical standpoint I'm not wrong, you are viewing the issue from far too narrow a standpoint.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Your trying to seperate the body and the mind. What addrenaline you secreat is directly related to what your eyes see, your ears hear, your nose smells, all put together. Because the mind sends signals to your body to do a certain thing like raise a knee, or duck, before it sends sends the comprehendable signals, doesn't mean it isn't all started in the mind.

The issue at hand was that it is a chemically altered state. I don't debate that it isn't started in the mind. What I debate is the effects of the body during the event and the mind's ability to control it. There are certain events the body does that the conscious mind has no control over. I will admit that it is not impossible but the physical effects are like a river. While it may flow at different speeds and depths, it is still the same river.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
I guess I can agree with you on that, but I wouldn't say the average person who flies off the handle at getting flipped off is an experienced street fighter.

I never said that. I have no clue where that came from.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Plus, I have never had my knee crushed, I have never really crushed anyones knee, but I have set many a broken bone in the ER and I can tell you, knowing the results of that injury do make a difference in what you expect.

I've done CPR and saved people's lives a few times in my line of work. It doesn't make me a heart surgeon. You need the first hand direct exposure, not second hand.

theneuhauser

10-13-2002, 07:22 PM

3 words- Adrenal Gland Disorders

there are extreme variations in how we react to adrenalin and all of the other hormones that are mixin around in the human washing machine. disorders are just diagnoses of the extremes that occur in every human being.
here's one example of genetic causes for adrenal imbalance.
if you like this article (kind of sci. journally) then you can find a ton of other examples on this same site adrenalin disorder (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12213854&dopt=Abstract)

i hope that that helps with the current discussion, here.
you are correct, G-ronin about the rivers flowing at different speeds and depths, but theyre really not the same river. from what ive learned it seems that people are alot more alike on the surface than they are in inner space (at least physiologically).

GouRonin

10-13-2002, 07:34 PM

1 in 5 million people will spontaneously burst into flame and experience self-immoliation.

We'd better start lumping them in too and worrying about how to defend against people who run at us after having burst into flame.

:eek:

You guys are %$#@ing un believeable.
:bird: :disgust:

theneuhauser

10-13-2002, 07:57 PM

were you responding to my post g?

i hope not. i was just raising a point. the point was that on the extreme end of the spectrum, there are disorders, and disorders are extreme case of natural imbalances. imbalances that many people experience to a degree. not 1 in a million, but everyone at sometime or another has these imbalances. lots of people get hopped on controlled subs and experience temporary extreme imbalances.
Now the topic of this thread was adrenaline rushes in excitement situations. i was outlining one reason that, in fact, adrenaline rushes are different for everyone. that's why we have "fight" or "flight" these are two diametrically opposing responses to the same stimulus. What that tells me is that there is a whole lot of difference between individuals in these scenarios. The responses are not just slightly different, but radically different.

now that flip-off icon is cute, but what's the point? this is cyberspace, try to keep it nice and sweet.

GouRonin

10-13-2002, 08:05 PM

If you want to belive that body functions for flight and/or flight are opposed go ahead. They're not. I am not talking about responses. Something neither of you seem to be grasping. So the point is moot.

If you want nice and sweet go to Candyland, where gumdrops fall like rain.

J-kid

10-14-2002, 03:41 AM

The Adrenaline dump is one of the crazyest things ive had to deal with in my fighting experience,

I believe one of the first time i realized i had a Adrenaline Dump was when i was sparring with boxing gloves and going pritty hard with someone who is twice my size and been in the martial art game longer then me. He is a great fighter and i like to fight so i said. ( lets spar ) of course he accepts . We put on the gloves and start to throw some jabs and a few punchs . Any how about 75 seconds into this he starts going harder since i got some fast jabs in on him. Well he threw a upper cut up and i went down and BOOM . I might as well used my face as a door mat for that punch the force threw me back and i am 170 and in shape and 5 11 . Not to mention got a good reach and not bad looking for all the ladies =) . back to the storie his punch sent me off my feet and right on my back i rolled to the side my eyes where tearing i was feeling pritty beaten down. I was sorta shaken i thought that my Nose might have been broken . Lucky it wasnst. So some of the other people at my gym who are real UFC fighters at my Judo / Jujutsu / Boxing / Wrestling / AJW Gym started laughing got up and i called it game for a round or two and let the biger guys fight. later i got back in and i felt diffrent not like befor with this new found strength but with this fear that i would be hit and my body let me know that it was scared i felt Adrenaline pumping like crazy . I wasnt sure why but every time they went into a frenzy of punchs I would turn cover up and it was like my body said !!!!HIDE!!! . At this point i wasnt sure what to do. I thought and thought about it. Thinking day in day out. Went to a back yard boxing match and for some reason i was winning then i turned because i got hit and it made no sense , I turned back around and gave the guy a hook and won after getting punched in my back.

About 3 weeks later i went over to my friends house who did TKD and his dad did boxing a wal back well being who i am a big ufc fan. I started talking about how MMA could kick any TKD guys ass, So his dad was like you box. I say yeah but i justed started . Then he challenged me to boxing in his front yard, So we got the gloves on and started i got a few punchs in and then he went into a frenzy and was hitting me . I counterd with a punch then the Adrenaline dump kicked in i spun around and coverd up again i couldnt believe it . Usally when i spar i go for ground and pound being 70% grappler and 40% striker making me 110% of a fighter (Hehe) . So i finally after a long time i started doing more and more backyard full contact fights with people that think that they are the badist mofus around and I started losing all the Adrenaline dump affects . I am sure it might still be happening but it didnt effect me . Now its my oppents who are hiding from me . I no longer feel tired and hard at breath or the fear and turning my back . I am stronger and now more trained then ever , Yes it took me time but i tryed and tryed and my body just got used to it. Like anything else i survived it.
I dont know if this story helps you at all . But there is a lession to be learned hard work and determination are what is needed to over come the Aedrenaline Dump Like i did. I hope this inspires you to train harder so you will be able to handle this Gift this Curse i call THE ADRENALINE DUMP.

The END

7starmantis

10-14-2002, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by GouRonin

If you want to belive that body functions for flight and/or flight are opposed go ahead. They're not. I am not talking about responses. Something neither of you seem to be grasping. So the point is moot.

If you want nice and sweet go to Candyland, where gumdrops fall like rain.

I think they are only opposed in certain people. What would cause a "fight" in one, would cause a "flight" in another. Now that said, the chemical makeup up the MAist may make him prone to the "flight" instead of the "fight". This would have to be worked out in order to overcome it. However, I think many variables affect weather a person even conciously has the "fight" or "flight" response. A friend of mine since highschool has competed in motorcross since he was old enough to walk almost. His reactions are completely different than mine in situations where his training makes him comfortable. He wouldn't flinch at something I may duck at. See my point? Conditioning is a big variable to the adrenaline dump. Your mind has to percieve the extreme danger, if your mind is conditioned to that stimulus as being normal, the dump will not even happen alot of times.

7sm

Carbon

10-14-2002, 08:51 AM

Judo-Kid all I have to say to that is, you are on the biggest ego trip I've ever seen.

Kirk

10-14-2002, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Carbon

Judo-Kid all I have to say to that is, you are on the biggest ego trip I've ever seen.

Then you haven't looked in the mirror enough.

Bod

10-14-2002, 09:12 AM

Judo kid admitted his defeats and fears. Yeah he gets a bit daft every now and then, but he is getting less preachy, and his spelling has improved no end. I can't say the same for you Carbon.

Back to the subject.

Cus Damatio said 'Turn fear into fire'. He meant breath deep, and use the adrenaline dump to help you. Great advice.

The Chinese Martial Arts suggest pulling your ring-piece up when you are practising. Something about holding your chi in. However, I find that pulling your anal sphincter up also counters the adrenaline dump no end.

Try envisioning being scared. Then breath deeply and pull up the old starfish. With a bit of practice you might actually do it when you need to.

7starmantis

10-14-2002, 09:41 AM

Man I read that post and its like reading greek to me!! I don't know what in the heck you said, but it sure was funny!!:rofl:

Damian Mavis

10-14-2002, 12:31 PM

"Then you haven't looked in the mirror enough."

Heh, it's true but I must admit that Carbon is no where near as bad as he used to be. I personlly think Carbon has changed at least a bit for the better since he first started posting. And this coming from someone that has had the biggest run ins with him, even had threads locked over it.

But it was still funny to hear that coming from Carbon.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Damian Mavis

10-14-2002, 12:33 PM

"I find that pulling your anal sphincter up also counters the adrenaline dump no end"

Ya, it's the master technique of dump countering....

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Carbon

10-14-2002, 03:29 PM

Ya I may of had a big ego about what I knew about maritial arts.

I am still not saying that I can whoop anyone of yall, which I can't, or even stay in the ring which I probably can't either.

I guess I was just on a ......lets say hmmm testosteroine dump :P

GouRonin

10-14-2002, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Now that said, the chemical makeup up the MAist may make him prone to the "flight" instead of the "fight". See my point?

Yes. You're wrong. That's the point. The chemical make up of someone because they do MA will make them fight? No. I will say this as if I was talking to a 4 year old because I feel like I am. (Ok, I'm not but I want to make this clear. Again it's an issue of using the right words.)

The rush is the same. What you do with it isn't.

I was watching court TV the other day. A woman who had done martial arts for 20 years was raped. She testified to it and then said she was too afraid to fight back when she was being raped. Why? Not because she didn't have the conditioning but because she wasn't exposed to the fear of the actual moment.

I also spoke with a friend of mine who related the story of the man who had no training whatsoever and was a street thing who took a shotgun blast to the chest that destroyed his heart and yet he still managed to run 50 yards from the cops.

It's hard to tell what people will do when exposed to it. It happens though and with training with the exposure then it can be managed.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Conditioning is a big variable to the adrenaline dump. Your mind has to percieve the extreme danger, if your mind is conditioned to that stimulus as being normal, the dump will not even happen alot of times.

Holy Jesus...we're about to almost agree. Conditioning is a part of dealing with the dump.

Then we fell apart again. The dump will ALWAYS happen. It's just that it has become managed so well that the person almost doesn't know it's happening.

J-kid

10-15-2002, 02:23 AM

Ever heard of the saying.

TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE :eek:

Damian Mavis

10-15-2002, 02:50 AM

Well at least you've got a sense of humor about it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

7starmantis

10-15-2002, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by GouRonin

Yes. You're wrong. That's the point. The chemical make up of someone because they do MA will make them fight? No. I will say this as if I was talking to a 4 year old because I feel like I am. (Ok, I'm not but I want to make this clear. Again it's an issue of using the right words.)

I was watching court TV the other day. A woman who had done martial arts for 20 years was raped. She testified to it and then said she was too afraid to fight back when she was being raped. Why? Not because she didn't have the conditioning but because she wasn't exposed to the fear of the actual moment.

I also spoke with a friend of mine who related the story of the man who had no training whatsoever and was a street thing who took a shotgun blast to the chest that destroyed his heart and yet he still managed to run 50 yards from the cops.

It's hard to tell what people will do when exposed to it. It happens though and with training with the exposure then it can be managed.

Holy Jesus...we're about to almost agree. Conditioning is a part of dealing with the dump.

Then we fell apart again. The dump will ALWAYS happen. It's just that it has become managed so well that the person almost doesn't know it's happening.

The rush is the same. What you do with it isn't.[/B][/QUOTE]
You know many four year old Laberatory Medical Technicians that have studied this very issue for a couple years? You can degraid me because you can't prove your opinion, or you can accept that adults(thats what we all are, right?) can have differing opinions and thats ok. The world still spins. I never said someone who does martial arts is going to have a different chemical makeup, actually read my post this time, I said a MAist could happen to have the chemical makeup that would make them more prone to the "flight" like your own example of the 20 year MAist who was raped. Then again, a non MAist could have the "fight" proness like ,again your own example, the guy who got shot in the chest. Your examples supported my statements, I think we agree, you just can't grasp the fact that you might agree with me.
Lets not turn this into a personal battle friend, lets keep it nice and polite please.

7sm

Carbon

10-15-2002, 11:07 AM

I'm sorry to say this, but no matter if you are or aren't a MAist your chemical make-up stays the same.

Its your genes, its how you were built when you were born.

There is no way as of yet to change the chemical-makeup of someone, there are methods they are working on to detect birth defects when a baby is still in the woom and are trying to figure ways to change it.

Other than this when you are born and when you grow up your chemical make-up stays the same.

Its like saying since I'm allergic to penisilun I can change this by doing MArts

7starmantis

10-15-2002, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Carbon

I'm sorry to say this, but no matter if you are or aren't a MAist your chemical make-up stays the same.

Its your genes, its how you were built when you were born.

There is no way as of yet to change the chemical-makeup of someone, there are methods they are working on to detect birth defects when a baby is still in the woom and are trying to figure ways to change it.

Other than this when you are born and when you grow up your chemical make-up stays the same.

Its like saying since I'm allergic to penisilun I can change this by doing MArts

Thats exactly what I'm saying. Your chemical makeup does not chagne, but each person from birth is made up differently than the next person.

7sm

GouRonin

10-15-2002, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by 7starmantis

I think we agree, you just can't grasp the fact that you might agree with me.
Lets not turn this into a personal battle friend, lets keep it nice and polite please.

I think we agree on some points but the rest you're full of cr@p. Plain and simple and you don't like that I called you on it. Evade, dodge, change all you want. I don't care.

If you want polite and nice, then go looking elsewhere on some sunshine mountain where rivers of chocolate flow and the trees grow candy.

...and don't kid yourself. We're not friends.

7starmantis

10-15-2002, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by GouRonin

I think we agree on some points but the rest you're full of cr@p. Plain and simple and you don't like that I called you on it. Evade, dodge, change all you want. I don't care.

If you want polite and nice, then go looking elsewhere on some sunshine mountain where rivers of chocolate flow and the trees grow candy.

...and don't kid yourself. We're not friends.

Wow, sorry I got to you so bad there man, calm down. Are you completely unable to allow others to have differing opinions without spouting off about them being full of crap?
Lets just get back to the subject matter of the post then, sorry I threatened you.

7sm

cdhall

10-15-2002, 01:42 PM

Hey everyone,

I hope I can stay out of the fracas over here, most of you have some good experience and I think some of this thread is suffering from lack of specific vocabulary or common definitions.

From some of what I've read I want to know if Gou makes a distinction between and Adrenaline Rush and an Adrenaline Dump.

Is one of these a rush that you get right before an encounter and one something that happens when it is all over?

Or are "Adrenaline Rush" and "Adrenaline Dump" the same?

If so, then are there two phenomena associated with Adrenaline? Is there a before a fight and an after a fight reaction?

I wanted to chime in because I used to get so weak and nervous before a tournament fight that I thought I couldn' t move... then one day I was matched up against a giant guy who had been talking smack all day. I thought, "Oh Man! I can't fight this guy if I feel weak!" And then, amazingly, I wasn' t weak anymore but I felt very energetic. I felt as if I had turned the tide in my favor and channeled adrenaline to it's proper use. Maybe I converted a Flight into a Fight response.

Is this conversion something some of you are talking about relative to being able to "deal with" Adrenaline?

And in a real fight, is there also another rush afterward that might be confusing this issue?

I hope this helps.

Gou, if you prefer you can send me an email. I prefer an email to a PM because I'll probably want to put your comments into my notebook. You have a lot of wisdom and insight that I don't have. Even if you do prefer to be contentious. :eek:

I keep wanting to go on about Gou's personality more, but I'll say this since this thread has already seen a few "fights." Gou seems to prefer to be..."provocative" I don't know why. I might ask him but we've already had one "falling out" and I don't want to get him wound up.

But I respect Gou's knowledge enough that I often read his posts and sometimes save them for my notes because he just seems to be a great student of fighting. I'd reply to you more often Gou, but I prefer to avoid fights, whether they are on the street, in the parking lot, at lunch, work or on the web....

Alright, I'm in trouble now probably so I'll shut up and check back for a reply.
:asian:

GouRonin

10-15-2002, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by cdhall
Or are "Adrenaline Rush" and "Adrenaline Dump" the same?

No. For purposes of my discussion I want to use the word "rush" as the onset of the surge and the word "dump" as the resulting occurrance after flight/fight action has been initiated and dealt with by the surge.

Originally posted by cdhall
I prefer an email to a PM because I'll probably want to put your comments into my notebook.

If I learned anything from my time in EPAK, it's this. If you want it...I have to charge you 29.95 per page.
:rofl:

Originally posted by cdhall
Gou seems to prefer to be..."provocative" I don't know why.

If you go to a strip bar, or a circus, would you rather see something provocative and exciting or have some fat clown/stripper come up to you and say, "Hey. Wanna see what I can do for a dollar?"

I rest my case.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by cdhall
But I respect Gou's knowledge enough that I often read his posts and sometimes save them for my notes

I'll start a tab for you. My invoice is in the mail. We'll start with an easy payment plan.

Originally posted by cdhall
because he just seems to be a great student of fighting.

Yeah. Sometimes I will fight for 2 whole hours straight! I'm still working on the flaming, lightning, chi balls though. When I get it down pat I'll give you a call ok?

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Wow, sorry I got to you so bad there man, calm down.

Oh yeah...you got me bubbles. You got me soooo good. Everyone can see exactly what's going on.

Whatevah...and by the way...this is calm thanx.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Are you completely unable to allow others to have differing opinions without spouting off about them being full of crap?

Not when they're full of cr@p.
:D

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Lets just get back to the subject matter of the post then, sorry I threatened you.

My ex girlfriend threatens me. Mouldy cheese threatens me. Running out of poop tickets while I'm on the toilet threatens me.

You do not threaten me.

But you are amusing and I dig that about you baby! Show me the money!
:eek: :D

Carbon

10-15-2002, 07:04 PM

Whats your obsession withy our ex-girlfriend.

I think that everypost I read of yours you manifest a way to bring her up and talk about her.

cdhall

10-15-2002, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Carbon

Whats your obsession withy our ex-girlfriend.

I think that everypost I read of yours you manifest a way to bring her up and talk about her.

Easy, she gives him an Adrenaline Rush.
:rofl:

I'm sorry, I could not resist.
:roflmao:

7starmantis

10-15-2002, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by GouRonin

Yeah. Sometimes I will fight for 2 whole hours straight! I'm still working on the flaming, lightning, chi balls though. When I get it down pat I'll give you a call ok?

Oh yeah...you got me bubbles. You got me soooo good. Everyone can see exactly what's going on.

Whatevah...and by the way...this is calm thanx.
:rolleyes:

Not when they're full of cr@p.
:D

My ex girlfriend threatens me. Mouldy cheese threatens me. Running out of poop tickets while I'm on the toilet threatens me.

You do not threaten me.

But you are amusing and I dig that about you baby! Show me the money!
:eek: :D

I would have to say, as a 33 year old man you seem to get pulled into selfishly manifested arguments quite easily. You are aware of what an arse you are being right? But you do give a great name to your fellow boxers, although I would rather not be on the same thread or board as you, so thank you and good night.

7sm

Damian Mavis

10-15-2002, 10:08 PM

Carbon, "Whats your obsession withy our ex-girlfriend" Easy! Maybe your GF but not mine! don't say ours!

7starmantis, Gou's not a boxer, or at least not just a boxer.

You are both unwilling to back down so there's no real point in going on is there?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

GouRonin

10-15-2002, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by cdhall
Easy, she gives him an Adrenaline Rush.
I'm sorry, I could not resist.

Boo from the cheap seats!

Yeah she gives me an adrenaline rush but in a bad, bad, bad way.
:rofl:

...but I'm not bitter.
:rolleyes:

Carbon

10-16-2002, 12:38 AM

i accidently typed withy our so the "Y" is misplaced.

So it should read.

What is your obsession with your ex-girlfriend.

Damian Mavis

10-16-2002, 12:48 AM

I know Carbon... I was trying to be funny heh.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Carbon

10-16-2002, 08:05 AM

I know :(

SO was I!

No just kidding lol.

7starmantis

10-16-2002, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

7starmantis, Gou's not a boxer, or at least not just a boxer.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Sorry, his profile said boxing as primary art, thats why I posted that, sorry if I made a mistake. That said....

If we assume that the adrenaline "rush"/"dump" happens to everyone, what about the times when you feel nothing at all, is it happeneing and you just do not realize it? Because if its true that its chemical, you should feel it exactly the same each time correct ?

7sm

Damian Mavis

10-16-2002, 02:00 PM

"Sorry, his profile said boxing as primary art, thats why I posted that"

He also lists his arts as "interpretive dance" and training as "excessive drinking" and occupation as "bearhunter" haha

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

GouRonin

10-16-2002, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by 7starmantis
If we assume that the adrenaline "rush"/"dump" happens to everyone, what about the times when you feel nothing at all, is it happeneing and you just do not realize it? Because if its true that its chemical, you should feel it exactly the same each time correct ?

Not really. if you look at it like a drug then you can use the analogy that much like an addict, the more exposure to it they have the more the levels need to change for the same effect. Like a drug addict needing more and more to maintain a nearly same level high. A same level dosage would not have the same effect as the body builds up tolerances and the mind does as well. There is an effect, but not as much as the inital time.

As an aside, many drug addicts call the act of looking to feel the same affects of that first time they got high, "Chasing The Dragon." because you never really get the same high as that first time and you always need more to come near to it. Hence you are chasing a dragon because you never catch it.

Bod

10-17-2002, 07:59 AM

There's two things you can do to deal with an adrenaline dump.

A. Learn to use the dump.

B. Not get it so bad in the first place.

I will not go into A again, because the starfish was a funny starfish, talked in Greek, and made people laugh.

But B does happen as well. The first time you do anything scary the dump is bad, but the 99th it's not so bad. OK, so you can't just go around fighting people, but you can reduce your unfamiliarity with a fighting situation and this will reduce your fear response.

And the adrenal response will get less and less, not just your reaction to 'the dump'. Think about the first time you rode a bicycle. Do you still get the same dump now? No, at best you only get a small rush.

Damian Mavis

10-17-2002, 02:03 PM

What the heck? Did you ride your bicycle without the seat or something?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

7starmantis

10-17-2002, 04:29 PM

7starmantis

10-17-2002, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

What the heck? Did you ride your bicycle without the seat or something?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Oh, and I agree with you completely.

:confused: WTF?? :confused:

7sm

GouRonin

10-17-2002, 04:48 PM

Jeezus, you're incapable of following any linear argument.

You remind me of the little kids at my friend's Dojo. They will ask you a question such as, "What would you do if...?" and then when you answer they will increasingly made the same question harder by looking for exceptions or outs such as adding another attacker, then weapons, then a nuclear weapon going off. To the point where their original intent is reached because you have no choice to agree. However, that doesn'tmake their point right.

If you want to constantly search for the exception to every rule you're more than welcome to. I could care less. You ask me to tone it down then continue being the same moron previously and then expect me to not react as I did before? Let me ask you this, when you walk into a closed door, do you do it again and expect a different result?

People will have variations on almost anything. Variations. There are people out there who have been hit by lightning (which by the way I am beginning to suspect are your lightning chi balls of flame) and they survive. By your reasoning that means that yes people can survive lightning bolt strike. But is it the norm? C'mon.

For a guy who wanted reasonable discussion you sure don't act like it. You're the kind of guy who yaps and yaps like a tiny dog until people give up and give it what it wants to shut it up. So here. Here is your scrap. Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. Are you happy? I hope so. Now please pour yourself a big glass of shut the hell up and do us all a favour.
:bird:

7starmantis

10-17-2002, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by GouRonin

Jeezus, you're incapable of following any linear argument.

You remind me of the little kids at my friend's Dojo. They will ask you a question such as, "What would you do if...?" and then when you answer they will increasingly made the same question harder by looking for exceptions or outs such as adding another attacker, then weapons, then a nuclear weapon going off. To the point where their original intent is reached because you have no choice to agree. However, that doesn'tmake their point right.

If you want to constantly search for the exception to every rule you're more than welcome to. I could care less. You ask me to tone it down then continue being the same moron previously and then expect me to not react as I did before? Let me ask you this, when you walk into a closed door, do you do it again and expect a different result?

People will have variations on almost anything. Variations. There are people out there who have been hit by lightning (which by the way I am beginning to suspect are your lightning chi balls of flame) and they survive. By your reasoning that means that yes people can survive lightning bolt strike. But is it the norm? C'mon.

For a guy who wanted reasonable discussion you sure don't act like it. You're the kind of guy who yaps and yaps like a tiny dog until people give up and give it what it wants to shut it up. So here. Here is your scrap. Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. Are you happy? I hope so. Now please pour yourself a big glass of shut the hell up and do us all a favour.
:bird:

Gou, you seemed to be a reasonalby intelligent person so I figured you could handle being disagreed with, I guess that is not the case. I asked you to tone it down so we could discuss it, which is exactly what I did. Because you are flying off the handle at my opinions does not reflect on my being a moron. I'm only dicussing a topic I happen to know quite a bit about. As an adult I understand that other will disagree with me, you should try to understand that, not everyone is going to agree with you.
I did ont attack you or your opinions in my post as you have so abundantly done in your last post. Get over yourself there bud, lets either discuss this topic like adults or admit you have no knowledge of the subject and move on to another thread. As a lab tech I have had alot of experience with this subject and I'm posting my opinions. My last post said nothing about you personally, so calm down, don't take things so seriously, and chill the hell out.

7sm

cdhall

10-17-2002, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

What the heck? Did you ride your bicycle without the seat or something?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Damian et al,

Guys, this thread is enough of a mess without trying to make it worse.

I think what Bod was saying is that you were very excited the first time you rode your bike without training wheels. I know my son was scared and anxious, etc, etc, but now he will jump curbs and stuff without thinking about it.

I assure you that that my son had a "Adrenaline Rush" when I first let go of him and sent him flying without training wheels, but that now, he probably can't even remember it and he certainly doesn't feel anxious about riding his bike now.

Gee, whiz. Sometimes you guys make me think you are trying to start something.

Anyway, I hope I got that right and I'm not trying to start something myself, I am merely pointing out that this may have been obvious to Bod and I but it apparently went past you two. No big deal. This happens all the time. In person, we'd make a joke and move on. On the web too often this leads to... well, other stuff.
:asian:

GouRonin

10-17-2002, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by 7starmantis
I'm only dicussing a topic I happen to know quite a bit about.

Strange as it might seem I have done a great deal of clinical research on this issue both in the medical setting and in the police/fire/social practical setting. I have a good grasp on what is going on.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
As an adult I understand that other will disagree with me, you should try to understand that, not everyone is going to agree with you.

You're not even trying to discuss to reach common ground or acceptable language rules. You're looking for loopholes and the exception to argue a point trying to make it a commonality in the theory. Which it isn't. You're looking to pick apart any theory by using the least variable. Poor reasoning. Evading the topics when pressed. Unable to maintain linear discussion. Hell, you'd argue the ship isn't going down with the guy trying to rescue you until your were a foot under water on the deck.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Get over yourself there bud

I said we're not friends or buds. You can try to use words like that all you want, it won't come true.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
lets either discuss this topic like adults or admit you have no knowledge of the subject and move on to another thread.

I have knowledge of a subject I have been studying for a long time and if you want to searches on martial talk I have been trying to bring this subject up for a while. The problem is that dorks like yourself feel the need to try and discredit things with poor arguing skills and poor positioning.

I'll give you this. If someone skydiving fails to have their parachute open and survives the fall then yes, it does say it is possible. It doesn't mean that we will call it the norm. According to you it means we should re-evaluate the theory of gravity because of an exception. You spin your wheels, I'll be moving forward thanx.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
As a lab tech I have had alot of experience with this subject and I'm posting my opinions.

Wow. Get out of the lab then. The only thing that I appreciate about this section of your post is that you said it is just your opinion.

I have been talkin and working with people and getting multiple opinions that are not just my own but qualified people in their fields. I cross reference, compare both the lab style results with field results. I need these things for "critical stress debreifing" work I have to do. I depend on this stuff.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
don't take things so seriously

I stopped taking you seriously a few posts ago.

Carbon

10-17-2002, 10:04 PM

And I stopped reading this :P It got way to long lol.

Damian Mavis

10-17-2002, 10:31 PM

Bod, "Think about the first time you rode a bicycle. Do you still get the same dump now? No, at best you only get a small rush."

Me, "What the heck? Did you ride your bicycle without the seat or something?"

Nobody got my joke so I figured I better explain since cdhall took me seriously. Bod mentioned getting a rush out of riding a bike so I asked if he rode the bike without the seat... you know getting the pleasure and a rush out of...uhm... well you get the idea. It was supposed to be roll on the floor funny... but I guess i'm just juvenile. heh

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Rich Parsons

10-17-2002, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by GouRonin

Not really. if you look at it like a drug then you can use the analogy that much like an addict, the more exposure to it they have the more the levels need to change for the same effect. Like a drug addict needing more and more to maintain a nearly same level high. A same level dosage would not have the same effect as the body builds up tolerances and the mind does as well. There is an effect, but not as much as the inital time.

As an aside, many drug addicts call the act of looking to feel the same affects of that first time they got high, "Chasing The Dragon." because you never really get the same high as that first time and you always need more to come near to it. Hence you are chasing a dragon because you never catch it.

First, I know I am late to this argument / discussion.

Gou, we can talk in detail later over a beer or something about my addiction to a drug called Adrenaline. It was a fun ride for a while. At one point I could even drop adrenaline into my system at my call. After a while of realizing that riding on the hoods of cars at 55+ MPH and on roofs of cars at 85+ MPH and looking forward to the weekend when you knew that some bozo would just come looking for you for a fight was a bad thing. When you find yourself in places that any other sane person let alone college student would find repulsive and your are their for the fun of it? You know it is bad. When I was chasing the dragon for the Adrenaline High it was very difficult to get off a drug your body makes naturally. You can decide to not put yourself into places and situations that would lend to Adrenaline being dumped into your system. Yet it is hard, you feel tired all the time and/or even angry and short tempered.

I have seen and know guys that hit themselves in the head or chest to get the adrenaline rush before the 'fight' begins. This is their trigger system and they beat you to the punch so they get the effects of the Adrenaline first. So, I guess I used my tricks to get my Adrenaline dump before or at the same time as them.

I went through some distinct states:

Not wanting to get hurt on my Bouncing Job.

Not getting Hurt in confrontations.

Looking forward to the confrontations.

Looking forward to hurting them first to avoid being hurt. (* Note: I had done this for the second step, but it was unconscious. *)

Trying not to hurt others. (* Joining Martial Arts to learn controlling techniques. *)

Realizing I was getting my ass kicked a lot and it sucked. (* Getting my ass handed to me because I was hesitating, not because I had started Martial Arts. :) *)

Disarm or take out the opponent verbally or with minimal physical damage, and still not get hurt. (* It was getting real hard to explain to police officers why either myself or someone else almost always went to the hospital and to stay out of Jail. I was floating between multiple stages at this point. *)

Realizing that I needed to change jobs or I might not graduate College to be a nice geek engineer.
I became a cook. :)
I then Graduated and became the Engineer :D

Now, did I get the shakes after the fights? At first I did, but if it was just a simple fist fight then no. If it was the first plate glass window I went through then yes. If it was the first time I jumped onto the hood of a car to avoid being run over and grabbed on for life. I shaked like hell. Yet the next time, and yes there was a next time, I kept striking the wind shield until the guys stop so I could get off and walk back. So, over time it had less effect on me. Could this also resemble rejection? Yes it could.

Just my Opinion and Experience and my apologies for the long post

Rich
:asian: