I have seen on Tracys website that they list a lot more forms than EPAK has, stuff that looks like it was adapted from various Chinese arts. These include Tam Tui, some Shaolin sets, spear, a Tai Chi set, etc. Does anyone know the story behind any of these? How were they brought into the system?

Well as it turns out, Tracys have posted some information on this on their website. It is found here: http://www.tracyskarate.com/History/history_and_organs_of_all_kenpo_.htm

Well as it turns out, Tracys have posted some information on this on their website. It is found here: http://www.tracyskarate.com/History/history_and_organs_of_all_kenpo_.htm

That page gives a general overview. Do you have questions on any specific forms and their origins? I might know, or it might prompt some research on my part. Either way, somebody learns something!

That page gives a general overview. Do you have questions on any specific forms and their origins? I might know, or it might prompt some research on my part. Either way, somebody learns something!


Nothing specific, just a general curiosity about it. Wondering with whom they trained and for how long, to learn this material and bring it into the system, and what the motivation for doing it was. Did they just have interests in other things, and so brought in what they learned, or did they do it from a perception that this stuff was needed to fill a gap in the kenpo?

Nothing specific, just a general curiosity about it. Wondering with whom they trained and for how long, to learn this material and bring it into the system, and what the motivation for doing it was. Did they just have interests in other things, and so brought in what they learned, or did they do it from a perception that this stuff was needed to fill a gap in the kenpo?

According to Mr. Tracy, Ed Parker had him study weapons forms to fill a perceived gap in kenpo. Parker at some point realized that weapons were not actually a part of kenpo, and moved more into designing his own weapons sets. Mr. Tracy had already put in years of research and liked them, so he continued.

He is one of two men in the US given permission by the deceased system head to teach Bok Fu (White Tiger Staff). I believe that Richard Lee (bok fu kenpo) is the other. If my memory is correct, our first two staff sets, Darkroom Staff and Skylight Staff, are Al Tracy creations based on some of the 18 forms of that style. There is a White Tiger Staff form on one of the videos, but not required for the system. He also learned the Wong Family Shaolin Hand Set from a man in Chinatown, San Francisco, who claimed it was the major form of his family's art.

According to Mr. Tracy, Ed Parker had him study weapons forms to fill a perceived gap in kenpo. Parker at some point realized that weapons were not actually a part of kenpo, and moved more into designing his own weapons sets. Mr. Tracy had already put in years of research and liked them, so he continued.

He is one of two men in the US given permission by the deceased system head to teach Bok Fu (White Tiger Staff). I believe that Richard Lee (bok fu kenpo) is the other. If my memory is correct, our first two staff sets, Darkroom Staff and Skylight Staff, are Al Tracy creations based on some of the 18 forms of that style. There is a White Tiger Staff form on one of the videos, but not required for the system. He also learned the Wong Family Shaolin Hand Set from a man in Chinatown, San Francisco, who claimed it was the major form of his family's art.


Thanks, Dave.

I always appreciate the historical context of things, and I had sort of been wondering about these things since I first noticed them on Tracys website.

I have spent the last 8 or 9 years studying Chinese arts here in San Francisco, and have acquired a fair bit of material (some I do better than others), so I know how that goes. When you are always curious in what's out there, you suddenly end up with a lot of things on your plate.

Thanks, Dave.

I always appreciate the historical context of things, and I had sort of been wondering about these things since I first noticed them on Tracys website.

I have spent the last 8 or 9 years studying Chinese arts here in San Francisco, and have acquired a fair bit of material (some I do better than others), so I know how that goes. When you are always curious in what's out there, you suddenly end up with a lot of things on your plate.

I certainly know that feeling.

I believe they were brought in by James Woo and are mostly from Wing Chun and Hung Gar kung fu.

Are either of those two staff sets (Darkroom and Skylight) the same as the EPAK staff set?

Are either of those two staff sets (Darkroom and Skylight) the same as the EPAK staff set?

What I learned as "#1 Staff Set" is very close to the one taught in EPAK, close enought that I believe it is the same. Whether or not that is also known as Darkroom or Skylight staff, I don't know. I never knew those names until I wandered onto Tracys website.

No they are three different forms.

Brian Jones