If you practice Tracy Kenpo at your school, what forms make up your cirriculum?

If you practice Tracy Kenpo at your school, what forms make up your cirriculum?


I don't practice them all anymore, but here is what I learned, up to first black:

Short 1, 2 and 3
Long 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5
Mass Attack
Tiger and Crane
part of the Two Man Set
Staff Set 1 and 2
Finger Set

I think that's it...

I have a question on the two man set, is that an EPAK set or a Tracy set? I just learned that set and the Parry set so i am just wondering.

I have a question on the two man set, is that an EPAK set or a Tracy set? I just learned that set and the Parry set so i am just wondering.

I believe it was one of the first sets Mr. Parker was working with, and the Tracys were still with him at this time. I don't know if EPAK still keeps it, but Tracys does.

Anyone know which Staff Set is the one developed by Chuck Sullivan and is there anywhere I can see both of them for comparison?

Anyone know which Staff Set is the one developed by Chuck Sullivan and is there anywhere I can see both of them for comparison?


I believe what is referred to as Staff Set 1 is what was developed by Mr. Sullivan, altho I think he may have borrowed it from another source, and Mr. Parker made some more changes to it... It uses primarily a middle grip, utilizing both ends of the staff.

Staff Set 2 is done more like a spear. The staff is held at the end, and the long range is used in primarily thrusting and "slashing" movements.

I believe there is a Staff Set 3, as well as Spear Sets, which I have not seen.

One of the versions I learned had a "pole-vault" style side kick in it.

One of the versions I learned had a "pole-vault" style side kick in it.

I could see where that is. We just planted the staff and threw the side kick keeping one foot on the ground. But I could see doing it "pole-vault" style for extra flair in competition, or something.

I could see where that is. We just planted the staff and threw the side kick keeping one foot on the ground. But I could see doing it "pole-vault" style for extra flair in competition, or something.

Yeah that was back in the day when my mind was elsewhere and my body could do it! :)

I noticed the same things on the karate connection website.

http://www.karateconnection.com/video_kenpostaffset.htm

SGM Sullivan learned the original staff set from Mr. Parker, and cut it down by more than 50% eliminating weaker and repetitious movements, and demonstrated it to SGM Parker. SGM Parker approved and sanctioned the cut down version as the official Kenpo Staff Set for the IKKA.

Info taken from SGM Sullivan's response email I posted in this thread:
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35999&page=2

If you practice Tracy Kenpo at your school, what forms make up your cirriculum?

1. Kipon #1
2. Short #1 (Four Shields)
3. Kipon #2
4. Kipon #3
5. Long #1 (Shield and Mace)
6. Short #2 (Cat Set)
7. Kipon #4
8. Long #2 (Continuous Set
9. Short #3 (Single Escape Set)
10. Kipon #5
11. Long #3 (Double Escape Set)
12. Panther Set (Book Set)
13. Pinan #1
14. Long #4 (Definitive Set)
15. Pinan #2
16. Darkroom Staff (#1 Staff)
17. Mass Attack (A & B)
18. Tiger & Crane
19. Pinan #3
20. Pinan #4
21. Skylight Staff (#2 Staff Set)
22. Long #5 (Transition Set)
23. Pinan #5
24. Skylight Spear
25. Little Tiger
26. Long #6 (Weapon Set)
27. Tensho
28. Sanchin
29. Two Person Set
30. Long #3 Staff
31. Japanese Sword Set #1
32. Long #7 (The Continuing Set)
33. Tai Chi (Yang Style Short Form)
34. Earth & Sky
35. Finger Set
36. Moving Finger Set
37. 8 Point Spear
38. Basic Butterfly
39. Tam Tui (Springing Thigh Set)
40. Wong's Shaolin Hand Set
41. Iron Butterfly
42. Circular Spear
43. Long #8 (The Twin Set)
44. Chinese Saber
45. 18 Section Punching Set
46. Chinese Set
47. Chinese Spear

Wow, Dave

Is all this considered part of Tracys? I see some things that were definitely imported, the Pinans and Sanchin and stuff that I don't recall seeing listed on Tracys website. The CHinese stuff I have seen listed there, but not the Japanese stuff. And what are the Kippons?

How do you keep up with all these?

Wow, Dave

Is all this considered part of Tracys? I see some things that were definitely imported, the Pinans and Sanchin and stuff that I don't recall seeing listed on Tracys website. The CHinese stuff I have seen listed there, but not the Japanese stuff. And what are the Kippons?

How do you keep up with all these?

Quite a bit is imported. The kipons and pinans were taught to me by Kyoshi Roger Greene, who holds a 9th dan in Tracy's, a 9th in TKD, and an 8th under Joe Lewis. Tensho and Sanchin are from my goju days.

The only way to keep up with them is to teach them. They are in my curriculum primarily because I like them and did not want to lose them. By making them available, and even requiring some of them, then I am forced to keep up with the material.

Pinan 1-5
Bassai Dai
Naihanchi Shodan
Rohai
Saifa
Hangetsu

Pinan 1-5
Bassai Dai
Naihanchi Shodan
Rohai
Saifa
Hangetsu

Saifa was a favorite of mine. Unfortunately, it is one that I don't remember well anymore.

Quite a bit is imported. The kipons and pinans were taught to me by Kyoshi Roger Greene, who holds a 9th dan in Tracy's, a 9th in TKD, and an 8th under Joe Lewis. Tensho and Sanchin are from my goju days.

The only way to keep up with them is to teach them. They are in my curriculum primarily because I like them and did not want to lose them. By making them available, and even requiring some of them, then I am forced to keep up with the material.


Oh ho! well, if we are listing everything that we do, in addition to Tracys, then here goes...

Lok Lik Kuen (six power fist, in 5 variations, Tibetan White Crane)
Chut Yap Bo Kuen (in and out/back and forth fist, Tibetan White Crane)
Dae Sat kuen (ground spirit fist, Tibetan White Crane)
Chut Yap Bo and Dae Sat together as one long set (origninal version)
Bak Hok kuen (white crane fist, Tibetan White Crane)
Fay Hok Dan Dao (flying crane broadsword,Tibetan White Crane)
Dripping Water Staff (Tibetan White Crane)
Lok Hop Kuen (Shaolin family of arts, I think...)
Fu Hok (Tiger and Crane, Hung Gar style, Kwok Wing Lam lineage)
Lohan #1 (shaolin)
Lohan #3 (Shaolin)
lien bo (shaolin)
Raise Blocking Spear (shaolin)
Two-Handed sword (preying mantis)
Guan Bo Tai Chi
Yang Style tai chi 10 posture form
Sun Style tai chi, long form
Chen Style tai chi, 12 posture form
Chen Style tai chi, 24 posture form
Chen Style tai chi 38 posture form
Chen Style tai chi two man form
Chen Style tai chi San Shou Pou Choi (old style Chen)
Chen Style tai chi, Eight Powers sword
Chen Style tai chi, Broadsword
Yang Style tai chi 16 posture sword
Yang Style tai chi, 18 posture sword
Yang Style tai chi, 24 posture sword (two variations)
Yang Style tai chi, 8 basic "mini" forms, sword
Liang Yi, Fu Style tai chi, bagua, xing-i "fusion"
Li Zhi Ming Bagua, 8 linking palms
Siu Num Tao "Little Idea", Wing Chun set #1
Chom Kiu "Bridging", Wing Chun set #2
Bil Gee "thrusting finger", Wing Chun set #3

I had also learned some stuff from the "Shao-Lin Do" system, headed by Sin The, headquartered in Lexington, KY. It was taught to me very quickly, and I think I did not learn it very well. I have doubts about it's quality as a system, and given that I don't feel I learned it well, I have let it all drift away. There was a pile of stuff in here as well, tho.

Oh ho! well, if we are listing everything that we do, in addition to Tracys, then here goes...

Well, the question was..."If you practice Tracy Kenpo at your school, what forms make up your curriculum?"

So I listed the whole thing. Not all of my curriculum is Tracy's Kenpo, but it supplements it nicely.

I had also learned some stuff from the "Shao-Lin Do" system, headed by Sin The, headquartered in Lexington, KY. It was taught to me very quickly, and I think I did not learn it very well. I have doubts about it's quality as a system, and given that I don't feel I learned it well, I have let it all drift away. There was a pile of stuff in here as well, tho.

Were you in Lexington? I am very familiar with Sin The' and his system. For most of my childhood, people did not say, "I take karate." They said, "I take Sin The'." Took some lessons from Bill Leonard, Eric Smith, and a couple of classes from Hiang The'.

[quote=KenpoDave;641580]Well, the question was..."If you practice Tracy Kenpo at your school, what forms make up your curriculum?"

So I listed the whole thing. Not all of my curriculum is Tracy's Kenpo, but it supplements it nicely.

Ah... good point, and yes, I find that it all works together well. I have had "ah-ha" moments with both my White Crane and Wing Chun, where I felt I got a sudden insight on some kenpo stuff.

Were you in Lexington? I am very familiar with Sin The' and his system. For most of my childhood, people did not say, "I take karate." They said, "I take Sin The'." Took some lessons from Bill Leonard, Eric Smith, and a couple of classes from Hiang The'.

No, I was never in Lexington. I ran into someone when I was in college in Minnesota, who was part of that group. I think he might have also studied under Bill Leonard, at least the name is familiar to me... He didn't have a formal school, just worked out by himself on campus, as his wife was part of the faculty. I stumbled into him, and he just started showing me stuff. It was my first introduction to any Chinese stuff, I was still strictly kenpo at the time. I knew they were headquartered in Lexington, and wondered if Mr. Tracy had any kind of relationship with them.

There are some other threads here about that group, if you are interested look around.

While I am not a Tracy's practitioner, I did start out leanirg from one of Jay T. Will's Black Belts. I also lived outside of Lexington for seven years. I hadn't heard the name of Sin The brought up in years. Considering his reputation in teh Lexington/Central Kentucky Martial Arts Community, I would be very surprised if Mr. Tracy had any dealings with him, other than being cordial if they met.

Brian Jones

While I am not a Tracy's practitioner, I did start out leanirg from one of Jay T. Will's Black Belts. I also lived outside of Lexington for seven years. I hadn't heard the name of Sin The brought up in years. Considering his reputation in teh Lexington/Central Kentucky Martial Arts Community, I would be very surprised if Mr. Tracy had any dealings with him, other than being cordial if they met.

Brian Jones

That was my suspicion...

While I am not a Tracy's practitioner, I did start out leanirg from one of Jay T. Will's Black Belts. I also lived outside of Lexington for seven years. I hadn't heard the name of Sin The brought up in years. Considering his reputation in teh Lexington/Central Kentucky Martial Arts Community, I would be very surprised if Mr. Tracy had any dealings with him, other than being cordial if they met.

Brian Jones

I am certain they have never met. Sin The's rep varies depending on who you talk to. For a while, after the condemining of the Wave Pool/Spa/dojo, he got pretty hard core. Last time I walked in, the training was hard, the sweat was pouring.

I for one, don't take his lineage tales as being credible, but the few guys I have worked out with knew some good stuff. Tim Kelly in particular.

Mr.KenpoDave,

Sir do I understand you correctly? Do you teach Tracy's Kenpo System, and do you require your kenpo students learn all of those katas? If so, how do you break them down into the grading levels? Thanks for your time.

Mr.KenpoDave,

Sir do I understand you correctly? Do you teach Tracy's Kenpo System, and do you require your kenpo students learn all of those katas? If so, how do you break them down into the grading levels? Thanks for your time.

Yes, I teach the Tracy System. I do not yet require all of those forms, but eventually, I will. New students learn them all, others are grandfathered in until an appropriate place to pick them up. A breakdown of the levels at which they are taught/offered is on my website.

If you practice Tracy Kenpo at your school, what forms make up your cirriculum?

Well, I am more fundamental in Tracy System. To me more is not necessarily better. That being said, I teach and advocate the following: Short 1, Long 1, Short 2, Long 2, Short 3, Long 3, Long 4, Mass Attack, Panther Set, Tiger Set (I do not teach Crane), Finger Set, 5 Cuts, Darkroom Staff, Skylight Staff, Skylight Spear. I teach White through Green Belt core, Brown based on individual normally 25 techniques and variations per level. Healing Art is required of Black Belt level.

Well, I am more fundamental in Tracy System. To me more is not necessarily better. That being said, I teach and advocate the following: Short 1, Long 1, Short 2, Long 2, Short 3, Long 3, Long 4, Mass Attack, Panther Set, Tiger Set (I do not teach Crane), Finger Set, 5 Cuts, Darkroom Staff, Skylight Staff, Skylight Spear. I teach White through Green Belt core, Brown based on individual normally 25 techniques and variations per level. Healing Art is required of Black Belt level.


Hi Dave,

Is there any particular reason why you don't do the complete system? Given you rank and experience, I am sure you know it all.

Personally, I always felt Long 5 was an awkward set, oddly put together, and I never liked it much. that's just me, tho.

I could see where that is. We just planted the staff and threw the side kick keeping one foot on the ground. But I could see doing it "pole-vault" style for extra flair in competition, or something.


This would be our Kata 8 taught when working towards 3rd degree brown. Did you have a shorter version? The first 1/3, or so we teach a belt lower as Kata 7.

My first Kenpo instructor tells the story that when he and some others were young and foolish they did the plant with the staff and the flying sidekick. One fellow went so far to put a rubber stopper ( like the end of a crutch) to the end of his staff for better grip. All went fine until while he was in mid air his staff broke and he came very close to impaling himself on the broken staff. Mr. Will put and end to this pretty quick and for his schools the "plant with a side kick" became more standard.
Brian Jones

My first Kenpo instructor tells the story that when he and some others were young and foolish they did the plant with the staff and the flying sidekick. One fellow went so far to put a rubber stopper ( like the end of a crutch) to the end of his staff for better grip. All went fine until while he was in mid air his staff broke and he came very close to impaling himself on the broken staff. Mr. Will put and end to this pretty quick and for his schools the "plant with a side kick" became more standard.
Brian Jones

I truly prefer to keep my feet in the ground. I just appreciate having a staff to keep me from falling down. :uhyeah: