Are these goals really attainable for the average Joe?

[cfr]

I put this in the general section because I want unbiased opinions, not just hose of JKD practitioners. For those of you who don't know, JKD is a "strong side forward" style. Meaning that if you are right handed, you fight like a lefty, with your right foot/ hand closest to the opponent. The logic being that your strongest weapons are up front. Also for those who dont know, "interception" is a big goal of JKD. Trying to "beat someone to the punch", or "don't block, just hit" are common practices for JKD'ers.

I've had some injuries and needed to take time off lately. The above goals are hard enough when practicing continuously, let alone sporadically. It got me thinking, "are these goals really attainable for a guy like me"? By "a guy like me" I don't just mean good looking, funny, intelligent, etc. like most of you are thinking. :wink: I mean someone who only trains 2 - 3 times per week, 1 - 1.5 hours at a shot. How realistic are these goals?

[Flatlander]

Well, I guess you don't want to hear from me, then. :P

I'll wait until we've got some non-JKD responses in here....

[Rook]

Well, I should point out that the majority of Chinese arts are also strong-side forward. I don't think that the goal is unrealistic - however, you have to think about personal fighting strategy. I'm still very much trying to pin mine down, but you should consider your strong points and weak points. Depending on your body type and prefered tactics, developing the strong points of JFGF might not be the best way to achieve your goals (I don't know what your goals are, so I can't help much there).

You've probably heard these points before but Bruce Lee's personal JKD, what we now call Jun Fan Gung Fu, was largely based around his personal speed - he was always freakishly fast and he built an art that did its best to absolutely maximize the use of speed - one where stright lines and short lines allowed him to use his speed to its greatest extent. The modified fencing stance is built for speed more than striking power or takedown defense or throws. The stright right that is a staple of JKD striking theory is probably one of if not the fasted punch out there.

A normal person might not think of his speed as his greatest advantage - especially someone who has many other things going on in life and can't afford pylometrics-related injuries and such.

[hongkongfooey]

The vast majority of people that do martial arts train just like you do. With work/ school and family life, it is hard to train every day for hours at a time. You have to ask yourself, what do I want out of my training? I look at it this way. Training a few hours a week is better than never training at all. Make the most out of your time. If you are having trouble with those concepts, then work them the most. You'll never be the caliber of a professional fighter, by traing a few hours a week, but you'll be ahead of the average Joe

[cfr]

Well, I guess you don't want to hear from me, then. :P

I'll wait until we've got some non-JKD responses in here....

Of course everyone is welcome to reply, I just didn't want responses purely from JKD guys.

[Touch Of Death]

You get out of it what you put in.
Sean

[still learning]

Hello, One of the reasons "Bruce Lee" learn to fight strong side up front is because he had one leg longer than the other. Plus many chinese styles fight this way too.

Each of us will find we like one side more, it depends on your body and what works for you....there is no right answer here. Think about it...does it matter strong side has to be in the front? ....in a real fight..total chaos..anything goes....fist/kicks and everything else coming at you real quickly...you will be moving around alot...maybe evening changing stances?

The best fighter/sports people are the best...because they train harder than anyone else...not because of with leg is in front!

I like to keep a leg in front...sometimes two...sometimes keep them running fast........Aloha

[Hand Sword]

I put this in the general section because I want unbiased opinions, not just hose of JKD practitioners. For those of you who don't know, JKD is a "strong side forward" style. Meaning that if you are right handed, you fight like a lefty, with your right foot/ hand closest to the opponent. The logic being that your strongest weapons are up front. Also for those who dont know, "interception" is a big goal of JKD. Trying to "beat someone to the punch", or "don't block, just hit" are common practices for JKD'ers.

I've had some injuries and needed to take time off lately. The above goals are hard enough when practicing continuously, let alone sporadically. It got me thinking, "are these goals really attainable for a guy like me"? By "a guy like me" I don't just mean good looking, funny, intelligent, etc. like most of you are thinking. :wink: I mean someone who only trains 2 - 3 times per week, 1 - 1.5 hours at a shot. How realistic are these goals?

Yes, with enough time and practice, you will be able to attain those goals. Everyone is different though, some pick it up quicker than others. Don't worry though, I bet you're already better than when you first started. This process will continue for you. You will face a lot of frustration at times, but, Hang in there, and keep at it. Good Luck!

[pstarr]

Still Learning is right... Lee had one leg longer than the other.

But speed isn't necessarily the thing to focus on. Lee had a gift insofar as speed goes and most of the rest of us don't. And speed is something to develop when you're young because as you get older, no matter how hard you try, your speed will begin to decline.

But timing can only get better with age. That's one of the reasons the oldsters could often defeat younger opponents. They weren't necessarily faster - their timing was much, much finer.

There are various training drills that can help develop this skill to a very high degree. And that's attainable by anyone who wants to put in the time and effort-

[Rook]

There are various training drills that can help develop this skill to a very high degree. And that's attainable by anyone who wants to put in the time and effort-

Are these art-specific drills you have in mind? If they are not, maybe we can start some threads on them.

[pstarr]

No, they're drills that can be used by any art...but they have to be practiced and studied a lot.

[Cirdan]

Training as the average Joe can get one pretty far. The thing is not to put the art completely out of your mind when you go home. Doing a just few minutes of practice on days you otherwise don`t train can help tremendously. A hundered punches a day, for instance, really adds up. http://www.kampforum.com/forum/Smileys/extended/boxing.gif (http://www.kampforum.com/forum/Smileys/extended/boxing.gif)

[Carol]

There is an addage that has been quoted by many MA instructors -

Q: How long does it take the average person to get a black belt?

A: Average people don't get black belts


Can training 2-3x per week enable you to accomplish your goals as a martial artist? It can, but much of the impetus comes from you, and whether you are pushing yourself to get as much out of your training as you can. You are the best judge of your own ability...do you see yourself progressing or do you find that you are plateauing out? Reaching a plateau is natural, staying at the plateau is not.

[Hand Sword]

Reaching a plateau is natural, staying at the plateau is not.


Great!! Just when I was getting comfy with that excuse. Thanks! http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Cirdan]

Actually I think the average Joe trains less than 2-3 times a week. At a large Karate club here in town the average member trains 1 1/3 times a week, 1 1/2 hr classes. Even tough the club has classes every day. The reason most people don`t make black belt is simply that they quit. Keep working at it, don`t skip too many classes and you will reach far.

The only difference between the possible and the impossible is one's will. - Hironori Ohtsuka Sensei

[searcher]

If you answer a question for me I might have a response to your original post. I have a limited knowledge of JKD, I have only read Tao Of Jeet Kune Do, with no hands on. Is not the purpose of JKD to set the system more for the individual and not for a set way of doing something? What I am saying is, should you not "alter" the system to what your needs are? If you think it is un-attainable in your opinion then you should adapt it to make it work.

[Shotochem]

Just about any MA goal is attainable. It just may take longer. I can't see why someone taking classes 2-3 days a week can't make BB. Eventually.

Lets face it a 18 yr old who trains 5 days a week in the dojo will get to BB a lot faster that a 40 yr old 3x a week.

I'm not 18 anymore and there is no way my body can handle going to class 5-6 days a week and working FT with a wife and kids. I prefer the 4 class a week schedule train 2 off 1 train 2 off 1 ect with daily stretching and body weight excerscise.

[hongkongfooey]

Just about any MA goal is attainable. It just may take longer. I can't see why someone taking classes 2-3 days a week can't make BB. Eventually.

Lets face it a 18 yr old who trains 5 days a week in the dojo will get to BB a lot faster that a 40 yr old 3x a week.

I'm not 18 anymore and there is no way my body can handle going to class 5-6 days a week and working FT with a wife and kids. I prefer the 4 class a week schedule train 2 off 1 train 2 off 1 ect with daily stretching and body weight excerscise.


But will that 18 year old kid understand the material better than the 40 year old person. When I was 19, I started Kenpo. I trained for a few years, then was away for a long time. I recently re-started about a year ago, in the same system. I now understand things better at 34, than I did at 19. I guess there is something to that whole age and wisdom thing afterall. LOL! I just wish I could heal as fast as I did when I was 19! Damn elbows.

[Hand Sword]

Amen to that!

[michaeledward]

Hello, One of the reasons "Bruce Lee" learn to fight strong side up front is because he had one leg longer than the other. Plus many chinese styles fight this way too.


I think one of the other issues related to the choice of Bruce Lee fighting strong side forward (if he did - I know very little about Mr. Lee). Is that he was a little guy. I understand that he weighed about 130 pounds soaking wet.

Mass Matters. There is a reason boxing has weight divisions. Put a 250 pounder with backup mass executing a proper punch, and a little guy is not going to be able to effectively block that punch. He may be able to parry it. But the block would collapse in on him.

Because of this, it was probably essential that a person like Bruce Lee would need to put his best weapons forward, and work speed.

Maybe?

[Hand Sword]

I think he said it was about having your strongest, most accurate weapons closest to the target.

[Flatlander]

I think he said it was about having your strongest, most accurate weapons closest to the target.Indeed.

I believe that if you're training twice a week, and you continue to work on things in your spare time, such as shadow boxing, stretching, hitting the bag or mook jong or whatever you have around, you can get to where you want to be. However, your aptitude for learning, and your athleticism will factor into how long it will take until you're satisfied with your progress. Ultimately, I think that it's important to remember that you'll never progress if you give up. Because you're kind of "stuck" with the schedule that you have with regards to how much time you can commit, you need to accept that and continue to train as you can.

I don't want to come off as arrogant or appear egotistical, but I am satisfied with my progression, and I train very little these days. I think that speaks to what another poster said regarding what you want to get out of your training. I wouldn't perhaps win any competitive championships, but I'm comfortable with my ability to handle my own should I ever be called upon to do so, using the skills that I have been taught in the way I've been taught.

Aside from that, I don't understand how the art specific details should change one's ability to learn them - whether you're trying to improve your JKD, trying to improve your boxing, or your TKD, or whatever. You'll progress at the same rate if you put the same amount of time and effort into it. I don't think that the strong side forward and interception focus influences any of that. Why would it?

[Shotochem]

But will that 18 year old kid understand the material better than the 40 year old person. When I was 19, I started Kenpo. I trained for a few years, then was away for a long time. I recently re-started about a year ago, in the same system. I now understand things better at 34, than I did at 19. I guess there is something to that whole age and wisdom thing afterall. LOL! I just wish I could heal as fast as I did when I was 19! Damn elbows.

Probably not in as much debth as us old farts, but a lot more than the 10-15 yr old range. IME, the youngsters do not have the same amount of evil in them as the adults. Ie...we have no inhibitions about useing the nastiest or dirtiest maiming techniques to end it quick. At our age its a different ballgame. The young guys dont have as much world experience and tend to not be as viscious.

[cfr]

I don't think that the strong side forward and interception focus influences any of that. Why would it?


Strong side forward, easy enough. But to me it's much easier to block a punch than to intercept it.

[Adept]

Strong side forward, easy enough. But to me it's much easier to block a punch than to intercept it.

I would actually go so far as to contend there is no such thing as a block. Or rather, that the mechanics of a block are not only vastly different from those of a parry or deflection, but also different than many people imagine when they use the term.

A parry is where the incoming blow is diverted.

A block is where the blow is absorbed by the recipient.

Now, the purpose of a strike or blow is to deliver force to the target. When you block a strike, you are still taking all (or at least most) of the force. You're just choosing the target, rather than the attacker. Obviously some parts of the body are more resistant to force than others (such as the forearms or shoulders as opposed to the jaw or neck) but the end result is that by blocking an incoming strike, you still have to absorb that energy, and in some cases it simply isn't feasable. There is no way Bruce Lee could have blocked a strike from George Foreman, or even a guy swinging a crowbar. You have to deflect/parry something like that.

[still learning]

Hello, In many boxing matches and other street fights....it is not always the stronger hand or kicks that takes someone down and out.

One police officer only uses a slap to knockout the bad guys for 20 years..(retired and he share his story).

How many of you got hit in training from someone less stronger side? or less powerful hits, but almost got knock-out.

You cannot always depend on your best hit/kicks or stronger side. Ever got hit with a spinning fist? ...hurts yea!

....Just keep training...the whole idea is awareness,humbleness, and NEVER ever get into a fight! Prepareness is enough to live a longer time...Aloha

[Flatlander]

But to me it's much easier to block a punch than to intercept it.Just building on Adept's post there, let's replace block with parry. You indicate that you believe that it's easier to parry a strike than to intercept it. I disagree. It's merely a more conservative strategy. An intercept is, by nature, a more aggressive strategy. That doesn't make it more difficult, it just makes it riskier. However, I believe that if you have enough skill to duck, weave, and parry, and enough skill to apply your line to the target, you can intercept. You just need feel out the line. More drilling should help with that.

[Robert Lee]

First you parry only if you have to hit any time you can. Parry to intercept Such as lin si lin di dar. But Any person in a fight will get hit how often depends on your skill. Strong side forward puts your strongest hitting tools closer to the target. That makes them a faster delivery and perhaps a better chance to intercept/ stop hit. You never know how a fight will go. But as you train you bring your level of skill to deal with the different option to a higher level. As an adult Sometimes a stronger understanding will give more leverage then a 18 year old would have. In anything its how much you put into it as to how you become better. 2 3 times a week improves you. Now you can do your home work and improve much more A person learning should find time each day to get at least a small work out in. You have to get your mucsle responce training in tune More mind and body training. Then the tools start working. After you may not need to train as hard But will be slightly rusty but still decent on delivery. Its been shown nowdays Age times skill can still get the job done. As for JKD You think hit hit The more any person blocks the more they will get hit. Blocks just slow down how often you get hit But you can hit if you can block. And remember a slip gives way for an entry to hit. JKD is not so much a defencesive art as it is offencesive But You will do both in a fight just think of the fast gun idea the person goes to hit you hit back faster so your tool lands first. Its not easy as it sounds as you have to build your skill level HOW much do you want it ask yourself that want it enough you will get much better if not well you will just make do.

[Phoenix44]

cfr: You described some of the features of JKD, but you really didn't articulate what your personal goals are. If your goal is to be a world class professional competitive fighter, then obviously, you'd need to train harder and more frequently. But if your goal is to be a skilled, dedicated amateur (like most of us) then what you'll need to do is train consistently--even if it's only a few times a week--with an eye to the long term and an appreciation for the process, not some arbitrary endpoint. Judge your progress over years, not from week to week or month to month. Sure, you'll get good.

[cfr]

cfr: You described some of the features of JKD, but you really didn't articulate what your personal goals are. If your goal is to be a world class professional competitive fighter, then obviously, you'd need to train harder and more frequently. But if your goal is to be a skilled, dedicated amateur...

Im too old, fat, and injured for number 1. I definately fall into the number 2 category.
:boing2:

[CuongNhuka]

anything is attainable. and everything is possible. it's just a matter other whether or not it is probable. your's is very probable.