TKD Weapons

[Cloud]

What weapons does TKD utulize? I remember when I was younger the TKD school I went to had nunchaku's that I bought from them because they decided they didn't want to teach those anymore.

I am starting TKD again this week(After nearly 13 years of absence) and was just curious to see if their were any hand to hand weapons used.

Thanks

[Danny]

No weapons in TKD. Sorry.

[arnisador]

http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=857

[Angus]

Yep, I've seen a couple schools teach 4 and 5 foot staff, but that's it. Other than that, the only weapon really taught is the leg.

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Angus

Yep, I've seen a couple schools teach 4 and 5 foot staff, but that's it. Other than that, the only weapon really taught is the leg.
Not really the leg so much.

If you look at full-contact sparring, the leg is used a lot less than in Olympic sparring or other tournament sparring. If I have to say what attack is used the most, I'd have to say the jab.

Remember, TKD isn't just all kicking. Many schools emphasize kicking but do not exclude locks and manipulations, some grapples, and lots of arm strikes, elbows, knees. In the West, I've seen schools where all they do is kick.

TKD is a fairly new sport (name-wise). The Korean arts emphasize a lot of the bow and arrow. Medieval Koreans were one of the most accurate people with the bow and arrow, not to mention they also assimiliated Mongol tactics, especially of the Magudai.

The sword was also a big part, kinda a Japanese katana style with Korea's own touch and yes, they are renowed blades.

The bo staff is also taught in military schools as well as short sticks.


Some schools nowadays have knife training although it wasn't traditionally a part of the training program.

Some schools also use nunchaku but again, it's not a traditional weapon.

[MartialArtist]

Not that the bow and arrow are practical nowadays. It looks good if you know how to use it, but it's not a person carries a composite bow and a longbow for safety purposes.

[Bagatha]

TKD by its very name means hand to hand combat. The only schools I have seen with TKD and weapons were TKD+ a different style.

[DJDragon]

At my friends TKD school they had a bit of weapon training as well as a few Judo throws. So its not uncommon for dojangs to interbreed styles.

They learnt mainly traditional Korean weapons like the sabatoh. (sp?)

[Angus]

Martial Artist: probably 90% of the schools, if not more, focus on the kicking in Tae Kwon Do. Probably even more of the schools do not focus on full contact fighting. I'm not talking about what Tae Kwon Do initially was or how it should be practiced, I was just talking about what I've seen practiced in the 20+ schools around here, plus the numerous schools I've visited when travelling. I was just speaking from my experience.

[Langdow]

Traditionally, there are no weapons involved in TKD, however there are schools and instructors that do teach weapons, typically started at 1st dan. The weapons training is usually based on another art that the instructor has trained in. Hope that helps :)


If you look at full-contact sparring, the leg is used a lot less than in Olympic sparring or other tournament sparring. If I have to say what attack is used the most, I'd have to say the jab.

Oh and martial artist, you asked me to check with the different type of kyrogi. . . . I have, and I think that you also need to understand that Olympic TKD is full contact. You are not the only one who does practice full contact . . . you may practice NHB which is the difference. When I kick someone in a tournment I don't hold back and neither do they, when I punch someone in a tourney (yes there is punching) I still don't hold back, but the difference is there are rules, after all it is a sport, and all the players know that. :wink2:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Langdow

Traditionally, there are no weapons involved in TKD, however there are schools and instructors that do teach weapons, typically started at 1st dan. The weapons training is usually based on another art that the instructor has trained in. Hope that helps :)



Oh and martial artist, you asked me to check with the different type of kyrogi. . . . I have, and I think that you also need to understand that Olympic TKD is full contact. You are not the only one who does practice full contact . . . you may practice NHB which is the difference. When I kick someone in a tournment I don't hold back and neither do they, when I punch someone in a tourney (yes there is punching) I still don't hold back, but the difference is there are rules, after all it is a sport, and all the players know that. :wink2:
Olympic TKD is full contact? Have you ever seen Olympic TKD? Full-contact is also in sparring. However, full contact means ALL OUT and almost NO limitations. Plus, you can use elbows, knees, and grapple. That is not Olympic TKD. It says it's full-contact in the rules but it's anything but. If you know how it goes, it's by a point system. Full-contact sparring, the winner is determined by submission or a KO. KO's rarely did happen if at all in the last Olympics.

Olympic Sparring = Playing tag with the feet

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Angus

Martial Artist: probably 90% of the schools, if not more, focus on the kicking in Tae Kwon Do. Probably even more of the schools do not focus on full contact fighting. I'm not talking about what Tae Kwon Do initially was or how it should be practiced, I was just talking about what I've seen practiced in the 20+ schools around here, plus the numerous schools I've visited when travelling. I was just speaking from my experience.
I've lived in the Washington area and I can say that it is true.

Even in Korea, there are a lot more schools focused on sport now than just 10 years ago.

Best place IMO is Pusan, South Korea.

[Damian Mavis]

Ya Weapons training is not part of the traditional curriculum. I train my students in weapons but it doesn't have a thing to do with TKD. (bo staff, kali sticks and knife)

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[karatekid1975]

We do bo staff (red belt) and knife at BB. And yes, we learn a "inter-breed" TKD style :P LOL

[Langdow]

Olympic TKD is full contact? . . . . .Olympic Sparring = Playing tag with the feet

:soapbox:

Once again . . . WHAT?! Yes olympic TKD is full contact in the ring. I am there to kick and punch as hard as I can, if I can score a knockout I'll take it. I've never played a game of tag in the ring ever unless it is while helping a color belt train sparring. Full contact is full contact striking. I am kicking them as hard as I can, I am punching them as hard as I can. Once again I will reiterate, because it is a sport there are rules. Rules such as there are no elbows, knees, joint locks, punching to the face, eye gouging, headbutting, kicking the groin, and a host of others. Same thing with professional boxing, there is none of that, but it looks like they are fighting pretty full contact to me. The rules do not prevent me from striking with full force.


It says it's full-contact in the rules but it's anything but. If you know how it goes, it's by a point system

Yes it is a point system, at least we agree on that. Do you know how points are scored. It isn't just by touching the other player one the pretty dots on their chest. There are certain criteria, as quoted from Article 12 section 2 paragraph 1 of the WTF rule book


Points shall be awarded when permitted techniques are delivered accurately and powerfully to the legal scoring ares of the body. . . .

Please take note of the "powerfully" and the "legal" We are not playing tag. Under the new rules, which I am unable to quote because my new rule book hasn't arrived yet. Scoring to the body is a point (+1), scoring to the head is two points (+2) an additional point shall be awarded if there is a standing eight count given because of a valid technique. Now that you understand the scoring a little better, how does one win

Article 16 section 1 Decisions

1. Win by K.O.
2. Win by Referee Stop Contest (RSC)
3. Win by score or superiority
4. Win by withdrawal
5. Win by disqualification
6. Win by referee's punitive declaration

I see knockout in there, and I also see withdrawal (ie giving up)

Once again I'd just like to say, we can't use the knees and elbows, and grapple, like you may be used to. Those are against the sporting rules, but that does not mean we play tag. They way you may spar has no rules thus it equals no holds barred sparring, which is not what we do (Have I said that yet
:rolleyes: ) Please keep an open mind about what full contact is. What you practice is full contact, what I practice is full contact. The difference, there are rules in one. What you do is what you do, and there is nothing wrong with that. What I do is what I do, and there is still nothing wrong in that. It is two different worlds.
The lack of knockouts you saw at the olympics again doesn't mean that the kicks aren't landing hard, maybe the competitiors didn't score a good shot, or maybe the other player got out of the way I really don't know because or television coverage was, well none :idunno:
This is all I have to say about this in this thread as it is about weapons not about sparring. The quotes from the WTF referee rulebook is a little out of date, this was a revision before the olympics, 2 years ago so there may be a couple changes. (BTW I am a ref as well)

Okay now I'll apologize for the manner this was brought forth, I get a little fired up about this because I have some karate friends from the local school that give me a hard time about this too ;)

Cheers :asian:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Langdow



I see knockout in there, and I also see withdrawal (ie giving up)

Once again I'd just like to say, we can't use the knees and elbows, and grapple, like you may be used to. Those are against the sporting rules, but that does not mean we play tag. They way you may spar has no rules thus it equals no holds barred sparring, which is not what we do (Have I said that yet
:rolleyes: ) Please keep an open mind about what full contact is. What you practice is full contact, what I practice is full contact. The difference, there are rules in one. What you do is what you do, and there is nothing wrong with that. What I do is what I do, and there is still nothing wrong in that. It is two different worlds.
The lack of knockouts you saw at the olympics again doesn't mean that the kicks aren't landing hard, maybe the competitiors didn't score a good shot, or maybe the other player got out of the way I really don't know because or television coverage was, well none :idunno:
This is all I have to say about this in this thread as it is about weapons not about sparring. The quotes from the WTF referee rulebook is a little out of date, this was a revision before the olympics, 2 years ago so there may be a couple changes. (BTW I am a ref as well)

Okay now I'll apologize for the manner this was brought forth, I get a little fired up about this because I have some karate friends from the local school that give me a hard time about this too ;)

Cheers :asian:
Oh please, Olympic sparring is A JOKE. Have you even watched it on the Olympics? They did NOT practice full contact. Yet, there were no 100% kicks at all. Reason why? It would be a waste of energy. You don't need a lot of power to score. You try to limit wasted motions and energy that won't get you nowhere. What they did in the Olympics (seeing if you're in the Canada, you would've have to stayed up till 2-3 AM) was bring their leg up and use a few pushing kicks, a few roundhouses, and a few back kicks. Did you see the championship matches? There was one specific championship match where an American won. Guess what they did...

The purpose isn't to KO. It is to win by the rules. Nobody is going to fight standing on one leg with the other one chambered for a kick when the guy moves in.

And oh yeah, I was a judge in Korea and I hope I knew the rules then and still am a judge for today's interstate tournaments.

[Damian Mavis]

You're a WTF judge?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Bagatha]

Now how could he possibly be a judge without belonging to an orginization? hmmm?

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

You're a WTF judge?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Not for major national championships but interstate tournaments between 6 or so close-knit schools.

But you're forgetting the fact that most schools aren't true members of the WTF or the ITF but rather affiliates.

I got my black belts from the WTF after my formal training in Korea. You really can't get accepted with a private instructor unless you're selected and chances are you are not going to get selected as a beginner to the art.

I am a forms judge and a corner judge.

As you forget, I'm a self-defense instructor and since the friend of my father's cousin was on the original council that helped organize the 1st official TKD tournament...

I haven't gotten a new belt since '82 since my concern is no longer belts. But you DO NOT have to be a member to be a judge to be a judge or a referee. You DO have to be a TRUE member to be a judge or a referee at national and international events hosted by the WTF.

[Damian Mavis]

Interesting.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Langdow]

The purpose isn't to KO. It is to win by the rules

Once again I will send you to that article I quoted from the WTF rule book. The Section entitled decisions, the first way to win is by knockout. How can you say to win by the rules isn't to win by KO, when it is specifically in the handbook?

[Bagatha]

Ya another name for those tournaments is "open" tournaments lol.

[fissure]

Oh please, Olympic sparring is A JOKE. Have you even watched it on the Olympics? They did NOT practice full contact. Yet, there were no 100% kicks at all. Reason why? It would be a waste of energy. You don't need a lot of power to score
I have personnaly fought two former Olympic team members.I have taken gold at state, and twice made quater finals at USTU nationals.
Your statements are wrong.For a tech. to score it must produce "trembling shock' to the opponent. K.O. is the # 1 thing on a national level competitors mind during a fight. Only when one is "up" near the end of the third round does playing defence become a usable stratagy - this is no different than a boxer "running" in the last round to take a win on points.


However, full contact means ALL OUT and almost NO limitations. Plus, you can use elbows, knees, and grapple. That is not Olympic TKD. It says it's full-contact in the rules but it's anything but. If you know how it goes, it's by a point system. Full-contact sparring, the winner is determined by submission or a KO. KO's rarely did happen if at all in the last Olympics.
Full contact simply meens hitting with all of ones power.Elbows, knees and grappling make the sparring 'no holds barred', no one to my knowlegde has ever made the claim that Olympic TKD was no holds barred fighting.
Indeed there is a point system in place.This again is no different than boxing or MT. If K.O. doesn't occur, then a win is awarded by points - does this somehow make the contact less?


The purpose isn't to KO. It is to win by the rules. Nobody is going to fight standing on one leg with the other one chambered for a kick when the guy moves in.
This is a method often seen in point ( no contact) stlye of tournaments.It has never been a method used in WTF/USTU type sparring. Is it possible that you have been refering to ITF competition?
It should go with out saying that to compare a sport, wether it be point sparring or contact ( to what ever degree) sparring with a self defence only type style is pointless.They are totally different activities.Self defence takes up approx. 50% of my classes. Sparring, poomse and such are the other 50 %.Many dojang offer no self defence at all, this is ( to me at least) - not a good thing. You offer no tournament competiton at all.If your students like it this way -great! I have found many people like to be offered both, I don't see a problem with this!