What would you do?

[Shoto Tiger]

It's nearing the end of the month and you've got no cash left to go out with. All your mates have gone out and you decide to stick with some good old-fashioned Monday night TV. While you're laughing your head off at "Frasier" you hear a noise that sounds like someone is trying to break in. Do you:

1) Scream frantically hoping to scare them away?

2) Open the door and act like Jackie Chan in an attempt to tackle the burglar to the floor and claim your hero's medal later in the year?

3) Hide under the covers of the bed - it might not work but it always helped as a child?

4) Your input?

[tmanifold]

I go looking. Mainly because my wife is Hiding underthe covers and won't come out until I do:D. I figure if I am proactive and find somebody it is better than him fining me unawares.

Tony

[Aegis]

4) Stand idly by while the burglar robs you blind, only moving to follow the TV.

5) Take a few pictures of the burglar trying to get in, then disappear down to the local police station.

6) Smash an empty bottle over his head.

[Despairbear]

Call the police and grab a gun, Waiting calmly.



Despair Bear

[Qasim]

Give address to 911, lay in wait and take him out with the 7 iron.

[lvwhitebir]

Call 911, turn on the lights, then tell the burgler that the police are on the way and that you're armed. Wait for the police to arrive to handle it.

Since you don't know how many there are and if they're armed, you're better off not handling it yourself.

WhiteBirch

[Nightingale]

well, my solution was to get the heck out of the house. I heard a window break on the other side of the house, so I went out through my window.

[Blindside]

Grab the nearest weapon, which would either be the gladius on the bookcase, or the broadsword on the pellet stove (they are both "real" swords) then try to get to my pistol (bedroom). I'll ignore the warhammer thats also sitting on the pellet stove. I live in BFE so the cops aren't really a solution (nearest cop is 40 miles away.) If my wife is in the house, I tell her to get out and head for the neighbors (they are good friends, and both are federal LE officers), and I gaurd her to the door. Then I wait in a darkened room for someone to come snooping in.

This is MY castle!

Lamont

[KennethKu]

Grap your heaviest cast iron fry pan. Wait patiently at a dark corner. Then give the thief a heafty whack across the face!! :asian:


But seriously, nightingale has the best advice. Unless, you have a shotgun.

[Nightingale]

things can be replaced.

Its better to get out of the house, so your family doesn't have to adjust to life without you. A frying pan may not do a whole lot of good against a gun.

[kenpo12]

Call 911, load the gun, and let my dog have his way with the burgler.

[bscastro]

I think it depends.

If I am alone, try to get out of the house. If I can't, grab something (heavy stick or frying pan perhaps) and wait. I don't think I'd confront them if I didn't have to. Don't know if they have a gun or whatnot.

If my wife is around, against try to get out of the house with her. If we can't, I'd tell her to lock herself in a room (hopefully to call 911), I'll wait around and guard the door.

It's a tough situation. My "manly" side says go and kick some butt. My "smart" side says it's not worth the risk. I'm willing to put up more risk to protect my family, but if that's not a factor, I'll leave the heroics for the heroes.

However, if they touch my computer, they're dead!! ;)

Bryan

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

well, my solution was to get the heck out of the house. I heard a window break on the other side of the house, so I went out through my window.

As I am in a 3rd floor apartment, escape through the window is not an option. I do have a "Ed Parker Kenpo Knife" in my nightstand, though it's not there for protection just storage, and I would hesitate to pull it out as I am not properly trained in the use of a knife. And thinking about this situation I don't really have anything else in the room to use as protection (i.e. bat, 9 iron etc.. ) with the exception of the telephone.

So I would probably make a run for the bathroom with the wireless phone, lock myself in and call 911.

[Nightingale]

Kenpogirl -

I would highly suggest that you invest in an emergency escape ladder. I now live in a second floor apartment, and my parents insisted on getting one for me. Basically, its a roll up rope or chain ladder, or a telescoping steel ladder that has hooks that anchor it to a window sill.

http://www.safetycentral.com/kid15ftemfir.html

Good to have incase you need an alternate exit because of a fire or an intruder.

-N-

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

Kenpogirl -

I would highly suggest that you invest in an emergency escape ladder. I now live in a second floor apartment, and my parents insisted on getting one for me. Basically, its a roll up rope or chain ladder, or a telescoping steel ladder that has hooks that anchor it to a window sill.

http://www.safetycentral.com/kid15ftemfir.html

Good to have incase you need an alternate exit because of a fire or an intruder.

-N-

Yes I have considered it over the last few years. Just never got around to purchasing it. In the case of fire, I'd risk a broken leg and jump. there is grass below so hopefully injury would be minimal.

[Damian Mavis]

"Grab the nearest weapon, which would either be the gladius on the bookcase, or the broadsword on the pellet stove (they are both "real" swords) then try to get to my pistol (bedroom). I'll ignore the warhammer thats also sitting on the pellet stove"

HA! That's awesome. I'm more prone to his idea. Anyone that is invading my home is threatening the lives of my family and is going to be subject to lethal force as far as I'm concerned. The goal isn't to kill but I'm not going to look out for the safety of a potential murderer of my family.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Kong]

Anyone that is invading my home is threatening the lives of my family and is going to be subject to lethal force as far as I'm concerned
True that, this is where I would break out the Gurkha, or the chucks. I don`t own a gun, you would have to be a member of a gunclub to do so where I live (among other strict criteria), but I do have a small arsenal of traditional weaponry that would definately come to use in a situation like this.
I`ll have to invest in one of those warhammers though, they sound real bad,,,imagine some junkie burglars reaction when you come raging towards him, screaming and wielding a damn battleaxe!

[Bod]

Grap your heaviest cast iron fry pan. Wait patiently in a dark corner. Then offer to cook the thief breakfast?

[Blindside]

Well, unless the guy is wearing hard body armor, a warhammer really isn' t the weapon of choice, thats why I chose my bladed weapons.

If you are in the market MRL has pretty good prices on their hafted weapons, I would pass on their swords. Look under axes, maces, and polearms.

http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.storefront

Medievel weapons are cool....

Lamont

[hubris]

Ward off left. No, single whip. Wait a minute - wave hands like clouds. Tai chi is a martial art, you know.

;)

[Hansson]

Actually something like that happened to me a few years ago.

I was standing in the middle of my one-room apartment late one night, watching tv (probably was on my way to the bathroom or something).

The building I lived in was just opened up after some renovation work and most apartments were empty. Valuable tools were left in the building and on two occasions earlier the same month things were stolen.

All of a sudden I feel something is wrong and I see how the doorhandle is being pulled down slowly... I freeze! The door was locked thank god... but it was very creepy anyway! I went to the door and smashed it loudly and also did sort of a kiai... then I heard how someone was running away in the corridor.

I called the police but of course they had more important things to do... :rolleyes:

[feintem]

Id find out what black talons do to human fleash.I had it happen to me at 11:00 at night. I herd some guys in my backyard so I grabed my 9mm and ran down stairs to do some target practice but to my disapointment they were gone. But now that I have my sons in my life. I would even take it with greater coviction. If they get past me my boys have to much to loose their lifes.









Any fight worth fighting must be worth dieing for!!!!

[Damian Mavis]

"Oh those silly, primitive Thais. They are so backward as to think that learning to fight is merely a matter of training hard and hitting hard. Where are the pressure points, the forms, the grandmasters, we ask. It is fun to laugh at their childlike understanding, but not if there is an actual Thai boxer present."

HA! I think I peed my pants......damn

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[J-kid]

Then pick up my base ball bat and hide around the corner then when he walks past me scream in a blinding rage swinging the baseball bat at him then tackle and stab and chock , when the cops come you say he attacked you first .

[J-kid]

I could dig a ditch in my house in the middle of my hall like in the cartoons and he will fall in and then there will be a capault he will land in then get shot threw a sky light, That is the best way to handle it. TnT works just as well but not as cool.:lasma:

[Kenpo Wolf]

Originally posted by Blindside
Grab the nearest weapon, which would either be the gladius on the bookcase, or the broadsword on the pellet stove (they are both "real" swords) ,,,,,,,,,,
Lamont

I would grab both and make like a ninja turtle:)

Seriously, I'd make sure my wife was safe before I'd even think about confronting the burglars, if at all, with the baseball bat and airhorn I keep by my bed. This has actually happened to me and the airhorn did a great job of getting the varlet out of my house

[7starmantis]

I know that alot of peple in here are being funny, but some are not, and I truly hope that your MA has increased your intellegence to the size that you would not grab some weapon and try to overtake someone. If your in danger, call the police! Ther eare situation that differ, but get out! What that you own is worth your life? If you can't get out, defend yourself, but why perposly put yourself at risk?


7sm

[Damian Mavis]

I think alot of people are talking about defending their family not their posessions. To me if someone invades my home it's because they want to rape and murder my wife... not steal my stereo. Why live life assuming that people won't do their worst only to be shocked when they do? I never understood that about most people.

So bottom line, someone invades my home I will treat them as the worst kind of criminal that wants to torture and kill my family. I will take them out and hopefully not kill them in the process.

P.S. plenty of people die in the time it takes for the cops to arrive. Counting on your call to the cops to save you is like an ostrich putting his head in the sand when danger approaches.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[kenposcum]

I guess I'd pop in the SFX CD, turn up the volume, and play track #47, "shotgun being racked." If that failed, I'd run like hell, because that means he probably has a gun.
Of course, if he came in by way of my room, I'd fight to kill. Or incapacitate. I'd mess him up so bad he'd have to take his pants off to blow his nose. Or I'd die. You can never tell, but judging from the fact that he is a criminal punk, I'd be willing to bet I could take him. This is not a statement of bravado, by the way.
:asian:

[7starmantis]

If you have a house full of family, of course, thats why I said there are different situations. But I did not mean to call the police and sit and wait for them. If you can get out, call them and get out, you won't be killed waiting for them if your not in the situation.


7sm

[Damian Mavis]

Yes I agree, but I live in a Condo.... so theres only one way in or out. I would have no choice.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

Yes I agree, but I live in a Condo.... so theres only one way in or out. I would have no choice.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Yeah thats the same for me, thats the reason I own a gun. I'm not going to pick up a baseball bat and go after him, he's not goign to make it that for in the house! I just think people get too caught up in beating the guy to death rather than running. Having worked with people who are adicted to things like PCP, you really don't want to take a baseball bat after them, you will just break the bat on their head and then get the crap kicked out of you!


7sm

[Blindside]

I can't say I like to rely on the police. Like I said before I live a long way from the cops, but I grew up in the Seattle area and there isn't any promise that their reaction time would be any faster. Am I supposed to wait on my front lawn for the guy to get finished? Maybe go running of into the night, stumbling over sagebrush?

Regardless, am I supposed to surrender all my possessions to some guy who is invading my home, to take stuff that I worked my ass of to own? This isn't just about possessions, it is about ownership, security, and self-confidence. Why are we waiting for the cops? Because its THEIR job? Because THEY have the training, the badge, and the gun? What about your training? I am confident in my unarmed skills, feel pretty good with a knife or shortsword in my hand, and I'm a better pistol shot than half the cops I know. Why should I abdicate the responsibility of protecting my home to strangers? In my case, I won't do it.

Lamont

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Blindside

I can't say I like to rely on the police. Like I said before I live a long way from the cops, but I grew up in the Seattle area and there isn't any promise that their reaction time would be any faster. Am I supposed to wait on my front lawn for the guy to get finished? Maybe go running of into the night, stumbling over sagebrush?

Regardless, am I supposed to surrender all my possessions to some guy who is invading my home, to take stuff that I worked my ass of to own? This isn't just about possessions, it is about ownership, security, and self-confidence. Why are we waiting for the cops? Because its THEIR job? Because THEY have the training, the badge, and the gun? What about your training? I am confident in my unarmed skills, feel pretty good with a knife or shortsword in my hand, and I'm a better pistol shot than half the cops I know. Why should I abdicate the responsibility of protecting my home to strangers? In my case, I won't do it.

Lamont
Wow man, calm down, you have this whole Rage Against the MAchine thing going on. First, if the person breaking in has a gun, your unarmed skills mean precisly dick. I propose that if your possessions are more important than your life, you need to re-evaluate your life. Nothing is more precious than life. I never said wait for the cops, I said call them and remove yourself from the danger. The reason? Order, peace, government, law. Choose one, because thats why we have police.


7sm

[Shoto Tiger]

WOW! I am impressed with the response...very!

How about we change the scenario a little...

They have come in and you have incapcitated them and called the police...however...

You didn't notice the other one until he grabbed you! He's extremely upset that you have incapacitated his mate! He has your head in a one arm armlock and you can't see what is in his other hand (if anything)....the wife/familly are no longer there...just yourself now...oh and this is all happening in the hallway - so you're not near any particular lethal weapons. The average joe knows how to apply an armlock...but is this person average?

[Blindside]

Wow man, calm down, you have this whole Rage Against the MAchine thing going on.

Not really, I'm raging against people breaking into my house.:rofl:

[J-kid]

Call 911 scream in phone hang up and when they call back hang it up fast , Cop car will be at your house faster then you can grab your bat and confront the guy.

[Damian Mavis]

hmmmm... now how would you know that Judokid? haha stop playing with the poor police!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[ace]

Grab the closest Wepon.
Grab the Phone .

But 1st make sure it is not your kids
Sneaking in after Sneaking Out:D

This hapen to me once & while the phone is great to put to your head it is not good when Your Mom does .


:D

[Nightingale]

Last time I called 911, it took them ten freakin' minutes to pick up the phone! I'd witnessed a pretty nasty looking car accident on the 91 freeway...one of those crashes where you just know that somebody has to be hurt at the very least. I was the only other car on the road at that time, so I figured I'd better call just in case the people in the car weren't able to.

Frankly, when I was in a situation like the one described, I got out first, and called 911 from my cell phone once I was safely in the car with my cell phone and the cat (who was asleep on the foot of my bed and got snatched up hastily as I exited).

[Kenpo Wolf]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

Call 911 scream in phone hang up and when they call back hang it up fast , Cop car will be at your house faster then you can grab your bat and confront the guy.

ROFLMAO:):):) Are you speaking from the experience of making crank calls or are you just trying to be funny?

[KennethKu]

I can assure you that is true. My friend knocked off my phone once and hit the speed dial to 911. She just put it back. 2 squat cars showed up within minutes and they were ready to breakdown the door! Sheeze!

[ace]

Remember Never Yell Help no one comes to help
Yell Fire Everyone comes to Fire.

Sometimes The Police come Quick
Sometimes hey are slower than turtles.

But it's worse when they dont come at all!!

I know they are not perfect, no 1 is.

[sammy3170]

If you've got a family and can't get them out safely, fine, confront the bastard and kick his ass. Make sure you can tell if he has a weapon. If you seriously hurt him and he's unarmed you could be in some trouble. Where I train we have the ABC's of self defence with A being Avoid a potentially dangerous situation. If you can get out, do so; no TV or DVD is worth anyones life including the burglars and you'll very quickly know if he's a burglar or has more sinister motives in which case that all changes.

Just some thoughts
Cheers
Sammy

[Kenpo Wolf]

Sammy, I'm curious as to what the B AND C are of what you're talking about. It seems interesting.

[Damian Mavis]

A = avoid and B & C are beg and cry respectively.

OMG I'm sorry but I had to do that, I'm laughing at my own stupid joke like you wouldnt believe!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[KennethKu]

ROFLMAO :D :D

You are a freakin comedian! :D

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

A = avoid and B & C are beg and cry respectively.

OMG I'm sorry but I had to do that, I'm laughing at my own stupid joke like you wouldnt believe!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

It goes further than B & C but they are just ways of remembering how to act before, during and after a conflict.
B is Breathe and be calm
C is Walk and act with Confidence
D is Don't put yourself in a worse situation than you're alredy in
E is Be aware of your Environment
etc etc
They're just mnemonics really, a way of remembering to do certain things and act in a certain way.
Cheers
Sammy

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by sammy3170

If you can get out, do so; no TV or DVD is worth anyones life including the burglars and you'll very quickly know if he's a burglar or has more sinister motives in which case that all changes.

Just some thoughts
Cheers
Sammy

That's why I suggest you call 911, turn on lights, then tell the burgler that you've called the cops.
1) If it's your kids I think they'll let you know about now before someone gets hurt accidentally
2) If it's just a burgler, they don't want attention and trouble so they'll beat it out of there quick
3) If they intend more harm, they'll stick around. At that point, the 911 operator is on the line and is recording all of the sounds. You can defend yourself with all means necessary because you gave the "thief" reasonable notice to escape and you're back into a "corner". No jury in the world would convict you of anything.

If you just stormed out swinging, someone would probably get killed and someone would have to answer for it. I don't want to be on a witness stand telling them I'm sorry but I had to leave the safety of my room because it's a new stereo.

WhiteBirch

[kenposcum]

"If he's got a gun, your unarmed skills mean precisely dick."

Not so. First of all, not everyone who gets shot, dies. Second of all, your training will help you to not freeze after recieving a slug. Third of all, if you're in close quarters (he's in your house/condo/apartment/dorm/hut, remember?), and if you rush him, he should be able to get ONE shot off before you engage and get the weapon pointing away from you. Fourth of all, your training has probably made you better equipped to withstand shock than the average person, thus what incapacitates Joe Six-Pack won't incapacitate you. Fifth, this is tied into the rest, he's probably not packing fed- spook- and cop- only Black Talon-exploding tip- super demolishing wadcutter rounds...he's probably got regular slugs, which make what's called temporary wound channels (like when you stick your finger into gelatin, slurp, it closes right up), which aren't as lethal as the aforememtioned evil frangible mega rounds of death that the good guys (another, later debate) pack. And sixth, if you see the weapon, you'll move, as a result of your training, meaning a potential killshot could be converted into a less lethal "flesh wound," or maybe even a miss. Seventh, statistically speaking, this guy (or gal) is unlikely to be the Night Stalker, and probably has the gun for intimidation and expects you to wilt and piss yourself when you see it, thus eliminating the need for him to use it.

Okay, that having been said, unarmed vs. a gun, or any weapon for that matter, is a losing proposition. Run if at all possible, natch. That a gun can kill you goes without saying, but my whole point here is that the unarmed skills that we hone are hardly "worth precisely dick."
And on a related note, I'd rather get shot than stabbed, because again, if he's got a gun, he's shooting me ONCE before I engage...yeah, I might die, but statisically speaking, probably not. But a knife...man, that's like rape. In and out and in again...brrrr...

[MartialArtist]

I hear those noises all the time. If he happens to cut the alarm, then I'd hide myself and grab my DE loaded with .50 AE if I can and wait after calling the police. No Jackie Chan risk taking, it would be foolish as you probably don't even know if he's armed. But it's easy to say things and I would probably act differently in real life but I don't know as I fortunately haven't experienced it.

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by kenposcum

"If he's got a gun, your unarmed skills mean precisely dick."

Not so. First of all, not everyone who gets shot, dies. Second of all, your training will help you to not freeze after recieving a slug. Third of all, if you're in close quarters (he's in your house/condo/apartment/dorm/hut, remember?), and if you rush him, he should be able to get ONE shot off before you engage and get the weapon pointing away from you. Fourth of all, your training has probably made you better equipped to withstand shock than the average person, thus what incapacitates Joe Six-Pack won't incapacitate you.
I know that alot of MA train against opponants with wooden guns and rubber knifes, but it develops what you are showing here as a "superman complex". Have you ever been shot? As someone who has worked in level 1 trama center ER's in a few of the largest cities in the nation, and someone who has been shot themselves, I would have to disagree with your "statistics". I'm not sure where you pulled that if you get shot only once you are statisticaly goign to make it. There are organs, arteries, all kinds of things one shot could very easily put you down with. How do you propose that MA training, or any physical training will make you be able to take a shot and continue? Unless you are shooting yourself in your training, which I doubt, this doesn't hold its merrit. And like I've said, and any ER doctor in the world would say, ONE shot can most deffinatly kill you. Do you want to take that gamble? The stakes are high, its your life, but if your a gambling person than maybe, just remember, you don't come back from it if you lose. Shock is not physical, you can't train yourselve to not go into shock, thats not true. People think if they are in shape it will help them not to go into shock, that is absolutely untrue.


Originally posted by kenposcum
Fifth, this is tied into the rest, he's probably not packing fed- spook- and cop- only Black Talon-exploding tip- super demolishing wadcutter rounds...he's probably got regular slugs, which make what's called temporary wound channels (like when you stick your finger into gelatin, slurp, it closes right up), which aren't as lethal as the aforememtioned evil frangible mega rounds of death that the good guys (another, later debate) pack. And sixth, if you see the weapon, you'll move, as a result of your training, meaning a potential killshot could be converted into a less lethal "flesh wound," or maybe even a miss. Seventh, statistically speaking, this guy (or gal) is unlikely to be the Night Stalker, and probably has the gun for intimidation and expects you to wilt and piss yourself when you see it, thus eliminating the need for him to use it.
Again, this is a big gamble, "well, he probably isn't carrying hollow tips, so I can take a shot and still get him". Thats not intellegent. If you have ever seen what a gunshot can do to a person you wouldn't be so flipantly expectant of taking a gunshot and being ok. Even a regular 9mm slug can do damage that can at its least leave you paralized, is that worth it to you for your TV ? Also, I truly hope you don't believe you can "dodge bullets" as you said in your statment about moving and causing a miss! Remeber, you have to move out of the sight of the gun, he only has to move his finger a few centimeters.


Originally posted by kenposcum
Okay, that having been said, unarmed vs. a gun, or any weapon for that matter, is a losing proposition. Run if at all possible, natch. That a gun can kill you goes without saying, but my whole point here is that the unarmed skills that we hone are hardly "worth precisely dick."
And on a related note, I'd rather get shot than stabbed, because again, if he's got a gun, he's shooting me ONCE before I engage...yeah, I might die, but statisically speaking, probably not. But a knife...man, that's like rape. In and out and in again...brrrr...
I don't see how someone standing 14, 15 feet away with a gun pointed at your chest is going to be overtaken by you and your amazing skills. Regardless of your training, give and live. Give him the money, the stuff, and live. Thats using your brain, just cause you can use your body doesn't mean you can't use your brain.

[Damian Mavis]

"give and live" I hear too many examples of people trying to appease their muggers/robbers only to be killed anyway for no reason... I don't know if I could risk NOT doing something.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[superdave]

I would select one of my firearms that have a bayonet. Then I would sink the bayonet into the SOB and pull the trigger.

Seroiusly though, if someone is in your home they are a threat to you or your family. This is not about your tv or stereo. Someone tried to enter my apartment about 2 years ago. Took the cops almost an hour to get to my place. The police station is only 10 minutes from my home. After that I made sure that there is a loaded firearm near.

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

"give and live" I hear too many examples of people trying to appease their muggers/robbers only to be killed anyway for no reason... I don't know if I could risk NOT doing something.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Well this is where you are supposed to use your god given brain. If the situation is not improving by giving them what they want and it deteriates to the point where they are going to hurt you anyway, then of course you would protect yourself. There is no set rules, you HAVE to have intelegence enough to determine when the attacker is being appeased and when he/she is not. If you have family in the house and the attacker isn't looking to steal anything, um...I would hope you would protect yourself then. What I'm saying is, if the situation can be ended without bloodshed on either side, you should do it. If not, you have to take the chance, but you know that your most likely going to get hurt regardless if you "win" or not.


7sm

[Nightingale]

well, when Grandmaster Parker was asked why he carried a gun, he held up his hands and said "These don't work from ten feet away."

Please remember that. If a grandmaster didn't think he could disarm someone in time from ten feet away, what makes you think you can do it?

[Damian Mavis]

Ya I live my life by that motto... "only use violence if you are completely sure you have to". It's a good motto for more than just home invasion....... sometimes I have to chant the words to myself when dealing with rude clerks..... HA!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[7starmantis]

HAHA, sometimes I wish I could develop a system of MA that worked through the phone too!!! Man, wouldn't that be great!!


7sm

[kenposcum]

Okay, 7sm, you got me. I've never been shot. But I've known (or at least made their acquaintance) a few people who have been shot, and even the guy who took a .32 through the leg was able to run away. And while one shot can most definitely kill you, it's not for sure. One of my students was in Vietnam, and he took an AK-47 slug to the gut but still functioned, and was able to return fire, until he was evacuated. I've seen what a gunshot wound can do, both at the time and in the aftermath, and I resent the assertion that I was being in any way flippant. Sure, it's a gamble, sure, you might get killed, but if somebody gets into this situation, I don't want them to freeze just because Mr. Bad Guy has a pistol. Awareness of the risks, not

[kenposcum]

[something goofy just happened with this message thing and deleted half my post]
...not over-fear. If one is too cautious, too fearful of the risks, well, one will freeze at which point one will die.
Oh, what was I saying? Yeah, the stats on gunshots not killing the majority of gunshot victims are from a police training text ("The Tactical Edge"), Jim Cirillo's "Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights," a book by Rex Applegate (I can't remember, but I think it was "Kill or Get Killed,") and research done by Fairbarn, who facetiously suggested that a bullet three inches in diameter would be necessary to guarantee a killshot. As for the training I have engaged in, one of my best friends is a federal LE agent for the Dept of Health and Human Services. He bought us a box of Simunition, so we could practice gun defenses. Even though the powder load is lighter, it still hurt like hell (and the paint, which washed out, was still freakin' embarrassing)so it's not as though I only practice with "wooden guns and rubber knives." (how dare you! ;)

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by kenposcum

Okay, 7sm, you got me. I've never been shot. But I've known (or at least made their acquaintance) a few people who have been shot, and even the guy who took a .32 through the leg was able to run away. And while one shot can most definitely kill you, it's not for sure. One of my students was in Vietnam, and he took an AK-47 slug to the gut but still functioned, and was able to return fire, until he was evacuated. I've seen what a gunshot wound can do, both at the time and in the aftermath, and I resent the assertion that I was being in any way flippant. Sure, it's a gamble, sure, you might get killed, but if somebody gets into this situation, I don't want them to freeze just because Mr. Bad Guy has a pistol. Awareness of the risks, not

I wasn't trying to imply that you were being flipant, I just think that people need to understand what it involves. I bet you if you ask any of the people you know who have been shot, they have some type if problem or issue with where they were shot. It doesn't leave you the same as before, and what is worth that? Your life, definatly, your familys life, most definatly, many other things, probably not. Thats all I'm saying.

7sm

[kenposcum]

[sorry, AGAIN]
Oh, where was I? Ah, yeah! To reiterate and finish up, I wasn't trying to show off my "Superman complex" (it's really more like a Woody Allen complex, anyway) with my post, I was trying to state that if he's got a gun, one's unarmed skills mean a whole hell of a lot more than "dick." People get shot and live. Some people get shot a lot, and live (witness LA gangbanger Bloodhound, shot 23 times and still committing crimes). If you're in a position where running is just not an option, like if you're living with your invalid grandmother, you have kids on the other side of the house, your wife has a broken leg and can't run for it, etc, etc, then you will have to fight, regardless of what you're up against. It's not like the movies, where every shot is fatal, every bullet opens a crater in flesh, guns have a magnetic attraction to the target...no. Oh, and one last thing, I wasn't saying that one can dodge bullets, what I SAID was that with some moving and juking, one can convert a potential killshot into a flesh wound (which DO exist, 7sm). Admittedly, one could also convert a flesh wound into a kill shot, admittedly, if the stakes aren't high, run for it, admittedly, we can all die, but MY POINT WAS THAT UNARMED FIGHTING SKILLS ARE WORTH MORE THAN DICK EVEN WHEN ONE IS FACING A GUN!!!!! Thanks. :asian:

[kenposcum]

Just read your post, after I posted mine. Gotcha.:asian:

[7starmantis]

Yeah, I think we agree basically, its this dang interent communication that is killing us! ;) Yeah, if you can run, get to running!! If you can't, yes your unarmed skills I guess will give you an advantage, but luck better be on your side too!!

Anyway, point taken....


7sm

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by kenposcum

People get shot and live. Some people get shot a lot, and live (witness LA gangbanger Bloodhound, shot 23 times and still committing crimes).

That line puts me in mind of the story of the first casualties from the "peace keeping" incident in East Timor, a few years back. An Indonesian sympethizer(sp?), thought he'd be ok to ambush a group of Australian Soldiers on patrol. He was unlucky enough to pick on SAS soldiers. His first shot hit one of the soldiers in the throat. He returned fire, killing the SOB, and then stitched his neck up whilst his offsider drove him to a field hospital.
Man, if I ever get shot, I hope I can be that tough!!

--Dave
:asian:

[kenposcum]

So the last thing I want to say about the gun, is of course SGM Parker was right, you can't disarm someone from ten feet away. So (again, if you can't run, duh) close the gap. I think we can all agree that doing Twisting Rod on an opponent ten feet away would be pretty silly!;)