Who is the heaviest hitter in the UFC...

[lll000000lll]

who do u think is the heaviest hitter in the UFC and or Pride?

i remember seeing Tank Abbot Level some dudes, but that was years ago.

since then i've seen some great elbow strikes from David "the crow" Loiseau.

[terryl965]

The Iceman Chuck Liddell

[Perpetual White Belt]

Liddel

[Stillelman]

Fast & Hard = Belfort

[MJS]

who do u think is the heaviest hitter in the UFC and or Pride?

i remember seeing Tank Abbot Level some dudes, but that was years ago.

since then i've seen some great elbow strikes from David "the crow" Loiseau.

Although he never won a title, which really didn't seem to matter to him, Tank never seemed to turn down the chance to throw down! Currently though, I'll have to go with The Ice Man!!

[Brian R. VanCise]

Clearly it is Chuck Liddel. He consistently lays out people with his punching power.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com (http://www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com)

[Grenadier]

I'd say Chuck Liddell or Vitor Belfort.

Chuck, simply because he knows how to take advantage of the slightest slip in your guard, and when he sees that opening, he rarely misses.

I still remember Vitor Belfort, who was barely 200 lbs, snapping back the heads of people the likes of Tank Abbott and Scott Ferrozo, both of whom weren't exactly small men. These were done with straight jabs.

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Currently -- The Ice Man
Middle Years of UFC -- Belfort
Classic years -- Tank

[trevorama]

Sounds like a lot of UFC-only responses here.

On the Pride side of things Wanderlei Silva cannot be ignored at Chuck's weight class. They don't call him the "Axe Murderer" for nothing. If/When these two guys fight, it's not going to be pretty.

And let's not forget Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic.

[Rook]

Sounds like a lot of UFC-only responses here.

On the Pride side of things Wanderlei Silva cannot be ignored at Chuck's weight class. They don't call him the "Axe Murderer" for nothing. If/When these two guys fight, it's not going to be pretty.

And let's not forget Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic.

He did ask who the heaviest hitter in the UFC was...

As for the UFC, Arlovski and Liddel would seem to be the top two. In PRIDE, I would say Fedor and Mark Hunt, with Cro-Cop having the most powerful single strike in the form of his high kick, and Silva being their best 205, and arguable the best striker at 205 in the world of MMA.

[terryl965]

Sounds like a lot of UFC-only responses here.

On the Pride side of things Wanderlei Silva cannot be ignored at Chuck's weight class. They don't call him the "Axe Murderer" for nothing. If/When these two guys fight, it's not going to be pretty.

And let's not forget Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic.

I would have put in pride but the thread ask for UFC.
Terry

[trevorama]

He did ask who the heaviest hitter in the UFC was...

Yah, but in the content of his actual post he does ask about Pride as well. Have a look-see. :mst:

He also mentioned David "The Crow" Loiseau. More like David "The Cro-Magnon" Loiseau -- Rich Franklin literally "devolved" him in their last fight and gave him that primitive forebrow. I vote that he change his name accordingly.

But seriously, Loiseau doesn't necessarily have devastating hits, he just practices slicing with the tips of his elbows so that his opponents get cut and they have to stop the fight. Seems like the easy way out to me.

[FuriousGeorge]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Tim Silvia, He's had his share of brutal knockouts. Pound for pound I have to go with Chuck, but I think Arovski and Silvia probably hit harder overall. I'm sure Chuck could bang with them though, I don't think I could bet against him in any circumstance.

[trevorama]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Tim Silvia, He's had his share of brutal knockouts. Pound for pound I have to go with Chuck, but I think Arovski and Silvia probably hit harder overall. I'm sure Chuck could bang with them though, I don't think I could bet against him in any circumstance.

Well we just may get to find out how Chuck would do against those formidable heavyweights. After he beats Tito again, and if they can't get Wanderlei Silva in to fight him, he's seriously considering moving to the heavyweight division for some tougher challenges. He mentions that in an interview I recently saw on Sherdog.com.

[Jesse]

Honestly I want someone to take the title from Liddel.

I don't see much skill from the guy, all he has is his big hits, no technical skills. Whenever he gets a guy to the ground he makes them stand back up so he can knock them out.

This is just my opinion, I know he's a tough guy and has worked hard for it, but I'm starting to get alittle turned off of the whole paying for pay per view when his fights only last 30 seconds. Not really what I call a good fight.

Just alittle boring. But thats just an observation.

[crushing]

Honestly I want someone to take the title from Liddel.

I don't see much skill from the guy, all he has is his big hits, no technical skills. Whenever he gets a guy to the ground he makes them stand back up so he can knock them out.

This is just my opinion, I know he's a tough guy and has worked hard for it, but I'm starting to get alittle turned off of the whole paying for pay per view when his fights only last 30 seconds. Not really what I call a good fight.

Just alittle boring. But thats just an observation.


Not much skill in his fights that last only 30 seconds? I'm not sure what to say about that, but it does make me smile. :)

How about this, "Well, at least you're bored for only 30 seconds."

I'll agree that it's not a good fight for the PPV spectators paying $39.95.

[Jesse]

Not much skill in his fights that last only 30 seconds? I'm not sure what to say about that, but it does make me smile. :)

How about this, "Well, at least you're bored for only 30 seconds."

I'll agree that it's not a good fight for the PPV spectators paying $39.95.


Don't get me wrong, obviously the faster you get it done, the faster he can go for beers... Its just for once I would like him to try something new. He's had the title for long enough now that maybe he should try a grapple or a tap out. Come on show alittle variety.
I know if its not broken, don't fix it. But when he gets interviewed by Joe Roggin at the end all he cares about is telling people where everyone's meeting up for beers after the fight.
Obviously he's a good "boxer" since no one has been able to get away from his hay-makers.

Just my two bits.

[gardawamtu]

Don't get me wrong, obviously the faster you get it done, the faster he can go for beers... Its just for once I would like him to try something new. He's had the title for long enough now that maybe he should try a grapple or a tap out. Come on show alittle variety.
I know if its not broken, don't fix it. But when he gets interviewed by Joe Roggin at the end all he cares about is telling people where everyone's meeting up for beers after the fight.
Obviously he's a good "boxer" since no one has been able to get away from his hay-makers.

Just my two bits.

Is the purpose of a fight to give a show, or to win? I really can't blame him for sticking to his strength. And there's not much commentary needed when you knock out a guy in the early seconds of a fight. It's the job of his challengers to make him do something else.

[Rook]

Liddel is a very skilled technition - his punches are fast, powerful and accurate. Notice that he rarely misses and that few of his punches are without effect. His one-punch knockout power is rare in his weight class and probably unmatched. His takedown defense, while it appears simple, is actually very nuanced and precise - not to mention the most sucessful one in all of MMA.

[trevorama]

Is the purpose of a fight to give a show, or to win? I really can't blame him for sticking to his strength. And there's not much commentary needed when you knock out a guy in the early seconds of a fight. It's the job of his challengers to make him do something else.

Well put. Jesse's comments remind me of all those fans who started booing Tito after he knocked Ken Shamrock silly in 20 seconds during the last UFC. When a fighter dominates another fighter, that is something to be admired, and respected. The short fight is disappointing to be sure, but it's not the winner's fault, or the referee's for that matter.

Chuck Liddell is an extremely skilled fighter. To think otherwise, is to expose your ignorance of the sport. He also has superb ground skills. He just uses these abilities to get back up to his feet, where he can get a knockout. That's his signature... and it's also what fans love to see. And ultimately isn't standing up the best way to fight if you were out on the street?

[Jesse]

I no doubt won't underestimate that he's a very powerful man and has explosive power in his punches. And he must be hitting the precise spots in order to make a man thats been fighting almost all his life to fall flat on their face, definately has skill.

But to the average PPV subscriber that has just paid $40 to watch it and they've been advertising the "main event" I think they're paying for it to see if the iceman might fall this one time. Yet its another 30 second fight.

I see a great future in a fighter like Diago Sanchez even though he's just began his career in the UFC, I can only see things moving up for him, he's skilled on the ground and on he's working on his standing. Whereas with a guy like Lidell making it seem like its no big deal and all thats on his mind is the beer, I donno.

Obviously let the best man win. I guess I'm just looking for that one fight where he shuts up and says "Wow that was a close one, I better smarten up"

Just a thought.

[trevorama]

Obviously let the best man win. I guess I'm just looking for that one fight where he shuts up and says "Wow that was a close one, I better smarten up"

Good response Jesse. I feel your pain. I was secretly hoping for a Sobral victory myself. Here's something that will help soothe the sting of the $40 price tag. Chuck Liddell is not unbeatable...

(It takes a while to load, so you have to be patient)

November 9, 2003
Chuck Liddell vs. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson (One of the top Pride Fighters)
http://www.fighttips.com/core/fight-videos/pride/chuck-liddell-vs.-rampage-jackson-20060814473/

[Jesse]

Good response Jesse. I feel your pain. I was secretly hoping for a Sobral victory myself. Here's something that will help soothe the sting of the $40 price tag. Chuck Liddell is not unbeatable...

(It takes a while to load, so you have to be patient)

November 9, 2003
Chuck Liddell vs. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson (One of the top Pride Fighters)
http://www.fighttips.com/core/fight-videos/pride/chuck-liddell-vs.-rampage-jackson-20060814473/ (http://www.fighttips.com/core/fight-videos/pride/chuck-liddell-vs.-rampage-jackson-20060814473/)

Nice Post Trevorama!!! See thats what I like to see, even if he would of not got that uppercut and actually took out Jackson, he would of walked away and thought "ya that was kinda close."
I notice Lidell doesn't have the gut that he does now, when did this fight take place?

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I no doubt won't underestimate that he's a very powerful man and has explosive power in his punches. And he must be hitting the precise spots in order to make a man thats been fighting almost all his life to fall flat on their face, definately has skill.

But to the average PPV subscriber that has just paid $40 to watch it and they've been advertising the "main event" I think they're paying for it to see if the iceman might fall this one time. Yet its another 30 second fight.

I see a great future in a fighter like Diago Sanchez even though he's just began his career in the UFC, I can only see things moving up for him, he's skilled on the ground and on he's working on his standing. Whereas with a guy like Lidell making it seem like its no big deal and all thats on his mind is the beer, I donno.

Obviously let the best man win. I guess I'm just looking for that one fight where he shuts up and says "Wow that was a close one, I better smarten up"

Just a thought.

Yeah, I guess you just want Liddell to lose or face stiffer competition. The problem is you're blaming him and not the competition. The Champ doesn't change tactics unlesss someone makes him, that's how it's always been. "To be the man you have to beat the man." Not only is no one beating him lately, no one is even coming close. Why change anything? Personally I pay $40 for the whole fight card and the "main event" is just one of the fights to me. I don't pay $40 for one fight. Seems to me that while you initially posted about "no technical skill" you changed it to he "definitely has skill" because your real issue is that you're just not entertained by quick fights. I can respect that, but I respect someone beating a trained fighter quickly and decisively a lot more.

[Jesse]

Yeah, I guess you just want Liddell to lose or face stiffer competition. The problem is you're blaming him and not the competition. The Champ doesn't change tactics unlesss someone makes him, that's how it's always been. "To be the man you have to beat the man." Not only is no one beating him lately, no one is even coming close. Why change anything? Personally I pay $40 for the whole fight card and the "main event" is just one of the fights to me. I don't pay $40 for one fight. Seems to me that while you initially posted about "no technical skill" you changed it to he "definitely has skill" because your real issue is that you're just not entertained by quick fights. I can respect that, but I respect someone beating a trained fighter quickly and decisively a lot more.

I understand that and totally agree with you. Maybe in my first posts I was alittle harsh by saying he's not a technical fighter. Yet he is a scraper. His style is definately one of a kind, seeing as most of the other fighters will adapt to ground fighting were as he will adapt to get out of the hold and get back on his feet.
I too buy the PPV for the other fights, if it wasn't for the other fights I don't think UFC would be as popular to the "everyday" viewer. People that arn't in martial arts and don't have the technical eye see it as it is. A man looking for that button on the left/right side of the other guy's chin.

I agree with what everyone has said about him being the best fighter. (Obviously he is if he's been with the title for so long) I'm just saying his attitude towards winning is lacking. He see's it as just another reason to party.

[trevorama]

I notice Lidell doesn't have the gut that he does now, when did this fight take place?

Chuck's fight against Rampage Jackson took place November 9, 2003. It was the second fight of a Pride elimination contest. Chuck's first fight was against Alistair Overeem 3 months earlier. If Chuck had beaten Jackson, he would have faced Wanderlei Silva in the finals later that same evening. As it turns out, Silva ended up winning the tournament by demolishing Jackson.

If you're interested in seeing the best fighters in the world at the light-heavyweight/heavyweight division, I would check out the Pride Pay Per View this Sunday. It's literally a dream matchup (and elimination bout) between four of the best fighters in the world (including Wanderlei Silva).


I agree with what everyone has said about him being the best fighter. (Obviously he is if he's been with the title for so long) I'm just saying his attitude towards winning is lacking. He see's it as just another reason to party.

Oh I dunno. I suspect I'd feel like celebrating too after such a convincing win. I mean, did you see some of those hotties that were cheering for him? Seems like motivation enough for me.:)

[MMA_Fanatic]

I find it interesting that it seems to escape peoples notice that Chuck Liddell (in addition to having a seriously hard punch) is also a very good wrestler, which is one of the reasons why he has beaten fighters such as Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz, Jeremy Horn, Babalu Sobral etc.

[Odin]

Wanderlie silva has to be one day given an award for the master of knockout.weather it is his knee his fist or his shin they all go down!!!

Mirko also has incrediable knock out power, could he have the most effect left foot in the world???

and to put it bluntly i dont think anyone right now is a match for Fedor, he has proven time and time again that he is possiably the greatest MMA fighter right now and proberly be for a while to come.

[Shogun]

In a recent interview in grappling, Andrei arlovski and Jeff monson claimed Tim Sylvia is the hardest hitter in the UFC. but then again, he is 6'8" 250 lbs. . . .

so do we factor in weight....? if so, then spenc fisher and sam stout have heavy hands. for welterweight and lightwegiht respectively

[trevorama]

In a recent interview in grappling, Andrei arlovski and Jeff monson claimed Tim Sylvia is the hardest hitter in the UFC. but then again, he is 6'8" 250 lbs. . . .

Well that explains why he just danced around him, instead of trying to close the distance, in their last fight.

I still think Chuck Liddell has the heaviest hands in MMA -- regardless of weight. He's the only one that throws punches the way he does (with an unconventional full-follow-through style, like a rope being swung with an iron ball attached to the end of it)... And he has the accuracy of marksman.

[FearlessFreep]

OK, maybe off-topic or maybe not but what does it take to have 'heavy hands'? How do you train to become a heavy hitter? What technique or raw strength is there in it that can be developed or improved?

[Rook]

OK, maybe off-topic or maybe not but what does it take to have 'heavy hands'? How do you train to become a heavy hitter? What technique or raw strength is there in it that can be developed or improved?

The big thing with boxing style punches (also true of karate punches btw) is using your hips to generate power. The main way people practice for power is doing single strikes or simple combos on a heavy bag. You should watch technique, make sure to use the hip fully, don't stop striking, and don't use long combos.

[trevorama]

The big thing with boxing style punches (also true of karate punches btw) is using your hips to generate power. The main way people practice for power is doing single strikes or simple combos on a heavy bag. You should watch technique, make sure to use the hip fully, don't stop striking, and don't use long combos.

Well technique is definitely part of it. But one thing you have to consider is that a specific boxing technique may not be giving you the full power.

At a Chuck Liddell seminar I attended last year, he told us that his knock out power comes from the fact that he doesn't utilize proper boxing technique for his hooks. Boxers throw a hook so that it will penetrate a couple of inches, stop, and then retrace its path back to the starting point. Chuck isn't concerned with regaining proper form right away after his punch. Instead he's swinging all the way through. The only thing that's going to stop his fist/arm from completing a full swing is his opponent's head.

He's "swinging for the fences." He's not trying to score points. Imagine how many fewer home runs would be hit if batters stopped their swing right after they hit the ball and then immediately brought their bat back to the starting position.

[thetruth]

OK, maybe off-topic or maybe not but what does it take to have 'heavy hands'? How do you train to become a heavy hitter? What technique or raw strength is there in it that can be developed or improved?

Being relaxed when you are striking also has a lot to do with the power output of your strikes. That is why BJ Penn has a lot of power in his strikes. I would have to say Chuck is the hardest hitter currently but pound for pound I reckon BJ would atleast match him.

Lastly, apart from the follow through on Chucks punches he also throws strikes from odd angles making his punches harder to defend thus they get through more hence more knock outs.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

[zDom]

Penetration is very important — hitting into the target, not just at the surface plane.

And a big part of achieving penetration is bridging the gap, getting close enough to the opponent that you can strike two or three inches behind the surface plane.

I see a lot of fighters who try to land punches while leaning their shoulders way out past their hips instead of moving in closer so they can REALLY extend far enough into their opponent.

Another key element is actually keeping your eyes on the opponent as you strike. Those who drop their head and eyes as they swing are essentially attacking blind. Hard strikes are, literally, blind luck in these cases.

[matt.m]

I would have to say BJ Penn as well. zDom made an outstanding observation that needs to be remembered.....When striking, strike through the target. Don't just hit it.

[Shogun]

I still think Chuck Liddell has the heaviest hands in MMA -- regardless of weight. He's the only one that throws punches the way he does (with an unconventional full-follow-through style, like a rope being swung with an iron ball attached to the end of it)... And he has the accuracy of marksman.
also chuck has some of the oddest timing in MMA. his strikes are not only at odd angles, but almost all boxing training practices timing drills. Chuck's training (like franklin's as well) uses a broken rythym and makes it hard to judge when exactly the punch is gonna land,. so many fighters block, the drop their hands to throw a strike THEN get hit by the punch...

[FuriousGeorge]

OK, maybe off-topic or maybe not but what does it take to have 'heavy hands'? How do you train to become a heavy hitter? What technique or raw strength is there in it that can be developed or improved?
I think this has to do with body mechanics and relaxation...with bad body mechanics a lot of the strike's energy dissapates. A relaxed and well grounded strike can feel really hard without a lot of raw power behind it, whereas you can throw everything you have into a strike and if you have bad body mechanics it won't do anything.

[Cujo]

Gotta go with the iceman! Weird timing and he throws that hybrid hook/cross punch with um, determination.

Cujo

[zDom]

They always talk about him as a grappler, and that does appear to be where he is most comfortable, but I've gotta say, Matt Hughes has some of the best striking I've seen in the UFC. He has solid technique.

Watch how Hughes keeps his eyes locked on his opponent, even when he is getting hit. Watch his accuracy: Hughes doesn't waste many punches, rarely if ever throwing a wild punch. Watch how he keeps his shoulders over his hips, for the most part.

He doesn't get the "big hits" very often (probably because he doesn't overcommit his weight behind any one punch) but I think he is one of the most accurate strikers in the UFC and has a decent amount of juice on them as well.

[trevorama]

They always talk about him as a grappler, and that does appear to be where he is most comfortable, but I've gotta say, Matt Hughes has some of the best striking I've seen in the UFC. He has solid technique.

Ummm... Am I missing something? In 40 some odd fights, I don't believe Matt Hughes has never knocked anyone out with a punch. (On Sherdog.com it shows that he KO'd someone back in 2001 -- but it doesn't say how.)

Being a competent striker and having good technique is not the same thing as being one of the heaviest hitters. You actually have to knock people out... at least sometimes.


Watch how Hughes keeps his eyes locked on his opponent, even when he is getting hit.

And here I was thinkin' that was because he was too slow to move out of the way.


Watch his accuracy: Hughes doesn't waste many punches, rarely if ever throwing a wild punch.

If he were accurate, and a heavy hitter, he'd at least have scored a couple knock-outs by now -- perfect punch or otherwise.


Watch how he keeps his shoulders over his hips, for the most part.

My cat sometimes stands on her hind legs with her shoulders over her hips. That doesn't make her a heavy hitter.


He doesn't get the "big hits" very often (probably because he doesn't overcommit his weight behind any one punch) but I think he is one of the most accurate strikers in the UFC and has a decent amount of juice on them as well.

I'm gonna use some Spock logic and your own statements to drive this one home:

If "Big hits" = Heavy hitter
...then...
No big hits = NOT a heavy hitter
...therefore...
If Matt Hughes has no big hits
...then...
Matt Hughes has my cat's standup power

You really can't argue with that logic. :)

[zDom]

Ummm... Am I missing something? In 40 some odd fights, I don't believe Matt Hughes has never knocked anyone out with a punch. (On Sherdog.com it shows that he KO'd someone back in 2001 -- but it doesn't say how.)

Being a competent striker and having good technique is not the same thing as being one of the heaviest hitters. You actually have to knock people out... at least sometimes.


If he were accurate, and a heavy hitter, he'd at least have scored a couple knock-outs by now -- perfect punch or otherwise.


Re-read my post. I didn't say he was a "heavy hitter." Ever.

I just thought it might be a good place to mention he has really good technique — better than "competent." Maybe I should have started another thread for this comment on Hughes: my bad, I guess.

And didn't he win both his last two fights by TKOs? A total of 14 TKOs. Not bad, if you ask me. The cumulative effect of a series of hard punches can be just effective, if not as dramatic, as one hard punch.

Fact is, I agree: Hughes is NOT a "heavy hitter." But I think he has better punching technique than some of the heavy hitters listed above.

Kind of like how Babe Ruth hit more home runs, but also had the most strikeouts, too. Swinging for the fences has its drawbacks.




And here I was thinkin' that was because he was too slow to move out of the way.

That may explain why he gets hit, but it doesn't change the fact that keeping your eyes on your opponent will make you a better striker, not to mention keep you from getting knocked out by an unseen punch or kick.






My cat sometimes stands on her hind legs with her shoulders over her hips. That doesn't make her a heavy hitter.

I'm gonna use some Spock logic and your own statements to drive this one home:

If "Big hits" = Heavy hitter
...then...
No big hits = NOT a heavy hitter
...therefore...
If Matt Hughes has no big hits
...then...
Matt Hughes has my cat's standup power

You really can't argue with that logic. :)


Actually, it is easy to refute logic like that.

First of all, to review, I didn't say Hughes is a heavy hitter, so no straw men for me, thanks.

Secondly, how does "no big hits" get you to "has your cat's standup power"?

Power is a continuum, not a binary "strong or weak" situation. I would submit that Hughes has less power than a "heavy hitter" and considerably more than your cat, unless, of course, you own a pet tiger. ;)

Please review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy before attempting to "drive home" a point with Spock-like logic. ;)

Again: my apologies for taking off on a tangent. I should have started new thread for this.

Then again, I might argue that, for his weight class, he IS a heavy hitter. Is there anybody else in that weight division who IS getting one-punch knockouts?

[LegLockGuy]

Not Liddell. Liddell faces grapplers with barely any standup so it makes him look like a heavy hitter. Wanderlei would lay him out. (as Rampage Jackson did)

I'd have to say Arlovski. Even though the guy lost twice, he throws heavy bombs, and I'm hoping everybody remembers Arlovski vs Buentello.

[Odin]

They always talk about him as a grappler, and that does appear to be where he is most comfortable, but I've gotta say, Matt Hughes has some of the best striking I've seen in the UFC. He has solid technique.

Watch how Hughes keeps his eyes locked on his opponent, even when he is getting hit. Watch his accuracy: Hughes doesn't waste many punches, rarely if ever throwing a wild punch. Watch how he keeps his shoulders over his hips, for the most part.

He doesn't get the "big hits" very often (probably because he doesn't overcommit his weight behind any one punch) but I think he is one of the most accurate strikers in the UFC and has a decent amount of juice on them as well.


..umm I dont know about that Matt Hughes stand up is average at best...I would even go as far as saying it could be his weakness.

........He's good at strikes that set up takedowns though I must say.

The most accurate striker in the UFC is Liddel no contest..its either that or he has thee luck of the gods when he Punches.

[Shogun]

Not Liddell. Liddell faces grapplers with barely any standup so it makes him look like a heavy hitter. Wanderlei would lay him out. (as Rampage Jackson did)

I'd have to say Arlovski. Even though the guy lost twice, he throws heavy bombs, and I'm hoping everybody remembers Arlovski vs Buentello.

I have to disagree just slightly with this. He may have faced grappling-dominant fighters, but some of them have also been VERY good strikers. Babalu, couture, metzger, and Ortiz are good strikers. esp babalu. but the main reason I disagree is 2 names in particular: Vitor Belfort, and Vernon white. chuck beat them both.

on the subject of good, solid technique. I believe Sherk has really good boxing abilities. he gave up about 4 or 5 inches to Pierre and didn't d half bad.