I am curious to the proper breathing and ways to develop it.

As I understand it, an exhale should be performed when executing a strike. I also try to do this short exhale when delivering the blocks as in Delayed Sword.

I have a tendency to hold my breath as noted by my testing panel during my Yellow belt test.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


Jeremy Nelson
Yellow AKKI

Not to worry my friend, You've just recieved your yellow these things come with time.

Your are correct that an exhale sound or something similar should be delivered when you strike someone, the same is also applied while blocking, you should breathe out anytime you are exerting your body.

Im not sure if you have begun to spar yet but proper breathing is highly important in everything martial arts related, whenever you are hitting or being hit you should exhale, it helps absorb a good amount of the impact.

My philosiphy on it:
Anytime i want my body to do something I exhale.
If I want my body to throw a punch I exhale while throwing the punch.

If i want my body to take a punch i exhale while taking the punch, I dont even feel punches to the ribs/stomach anymore unless the person gets their location just right.

I know that each school or system teaches their own method of how and when to breath but most seem to say exhale on each block and attack. You just have to practice and practice to get it to the point where it becomes automatic.

It depends on the style of kenpo which would use striking specifically on the exhale. There are internal aspect's of other styles; particularly those teaching 5 or more animal variations. Any snake motion would be striking on the inhale with chi controling the physical effect of the strike. While crane motion would strike on the inhale and block on the exhale and vise-versa. Dragon motion would use striking and blocking on the inhale & exhale. Tiger and Leopard would use more striking and blocking using standard breathing or exhaling, etc, etc. Most of these kenpo/chu'an fa/quanfa styles incorporate stationary and moving hard & soft qi gong breathing, meditation, and martial gong exercises.
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!

Thank you so much for replying.

In my practice at home I have been attempting to exhale with my strikes. I think it is coming along nicely. But I have a question, If every strike is a block and every block a strike, when do we inhale?

Chiduce, I greatly appreciate your explanation, but I am a bit lost. With some of the animal styles. I have read bits in places on the internet about some of these but I am a bit limited in my martial arts experience.

Thanks

JD

Originally posted by JD_Nelson

Thank you so much for replying.

In my practice at home I have been attempting to exhale with my strikes. I think it is coming along nicely. But I have a question, If every strike is a block and every block a strike, when do we inhale?

Chiduce, I greatly appreciate your explanation, but I am a bit lost. With some of the animal styles. I have read bits in places on the internet about some of these but I am a bit limited in my martial arts experience.

Thanks

JD From my understanding the breathing associated with the animal styles all had their own respective stationary and moving hard and soft qi gong exercises. The Crane did double and single wing flying qi gong; iron arm gong etc,. The other animal styles followed suite with various hard and soft gong exercises which included standard breathing (blocking and striking on the exhale) and reverse abdominal breathing ( blocking and striking on the inhale). Most martial arts systems of karate use standard breathing for blocking and striking. Yet, most styles of kung fu use a little of both types of breathing. I personally, agree that kenpo is a hard/soft martial style. This statement safely assumes the combining of both circular and linear motion, no matter what particular style of kenpo is being practiced. This is what makes most chinese oriented kenpo styles fluid, dynamic, and streetwise. As for the okinawan styles; this chinese conceptual method toward motion is discovered in the bunkai of the respective style kata. It is said that train hard style, then eventually soft; train soft style then eventually hard. This saying also refers to external and internal style training. So, breathing for so called hard style animal systems would tend to use standard breathing, while breathing for the so called soft style animal systems use reverse abdominal breathing. Thus, the so called hard/soft and soft/hard styles like dragon and crane would use both breathing tools for health, fitness, meditation and in failing an attacker. Since the kenpo arts (ch'uan fa) fit into this category, then it would be safe to say that depending on the animal style being taught, if one or styles, if several, which breathing (standard, reverse abdominal or a little of both) within the overall kenpo system would create the core foundation. Advanced studies would then expound upon areas which were not included in this core!
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!

exhale on your strike.

breathe from your diaphragm, not your chest. when you take a deep breath, your shoulders should NOT move. put your hand on your stomach, just below your ribs, and when you breathe in, your hand should move away from your body. If you need help, take a singing lesson from a decent voice teacher, because singers HAVE to have great breath control, so its an integral part of singing, and has helped me greatly when it comes to breathing in martial arts. a voice teacher could teach you how better than I can explain it online.

"If every strike is a block and every block a strike, when do we inhale?"

After the exhale.... :D !!!!

All joking aside, you'll learn through experience. As you continue to progress through the system you will begin to see, more clearly, the difference between major and minor strikes.

As an example, we'll look at alternating maces. If you "kiai," or exhale completely with every move then you won't be performing at an optimum level and the technique will be sluggish and ineffective. You should try to examine what the strikes are doing. The first two inward blocks are striking to the radials (if possible), but their function is to redirect the incoming push so you don't eat it. These first two blocks roll rather quickly and end with the back-knuckle. The motion is similiar to the one congo line dancers make with their hands, or the same motion as the one made when singing "roll the gospel chariot along" from bible camp (whichever helps you learn it best). You can use a timing phrase like, "bud - da - Whaaack" for the first three movements of the technique. It not only gives you the timing, but the point of emphasis as well. By actually saying it while doing the technique your following the right breathing pattern.

Make a phrase for the last part of alternating maces, then see if you can make up your own for the other techniques. If you don't feel comfortable saying it, then just change it to some type of groan or noise that you would feel comfortable doing, but give it a shot it will help you with your breathing.

p.s. Depending on what technique I'm doing, I'll inhale after recoiling from a major strike, but most of the time I can do the techniques on one breath. By the way are you one of John Haag's students?

bud-a-whack!!!!

I have considered phrasing a way to assist with timing, but did not think about it being a breathing aid! I think the light bulb has come on with this to a point.

I used to train with John Haag, I have not seen him in about 3 months!!! Scheduling conflicts mostly, we are both injured to a point, he just be me to surgery!!! Yeah I am one of his students in wichita. I just hope he will keep letting me come. My place may be taken due to my lack of attendance!!!

If I may ask how do you know Mr. Haag? Feel free to drop me an e-mail to discuss further!!

Kind Regards,

JD

And your email address is.......

Systema works alot on proper breathing.

I used to breathe like a boxer would when I would work out, short exhale on every hit. When I started doing Systema I was shown that I should try to breathe normally on everything, punching, kicking, blocking whatever. It's still hard for me to do but I find I don't get as winded when breathing this way and it's easier to not hold my breath when doing things.



:asian:

Hello, I also exhale with short breaths as I kick or punch. I am curious as to what the systema breathing technique actually is. I used to play trumpet so I have no problem with breathing from the diaghpram. Any info would be greatly appreciated

Try to stay relaxed and breathe normal when punching or kicking. The Russians figure your more relaxed when you breathe this way instead of always trying to exhale on every punch or kick.

I'm still new to it so I have a long ways to go to get it down.


:asian:

Totally, Vlad taught me ways to breath where I just don't get tired.

Boxing helped a lot too as many Kenpoists start to figure out how to breath from boxing. Many Kenpoists just don't spend the time trying to learn it. They should.

Originally posted by GouRonin

Totally, Vlad taught me ways to breath where I just don't get tired.

Boxing helped a lot too as many Kenpoists start to figure out how to breath from boxing. Many Kenpoists just don't spend the time trying to learn it. They should.

Ask Doug he knows... If it eats, breathes, drinks, pees, or even craps Kenpo, he's seen it!!! He's the consumate authority on what Kenpo people are doing everywhere. Now I know that I'm doing it wrong!

Gou Ronin is my hero!!! :moon: :moon: :moon:

Heck if you would have just asked me.........

In goes the good air .........
Out goes the bad...........
repeat often.....
:D

:asian:

So the good air goes in one end, and the bad air comes out the other? Please explain how you do it! I fear that I might still be doing this wrong! At least, by Kenpo Standards anyway.


:fart: :fart: :fart:

Why won't anybody work out with me?!?!

True to Kenpo Tradition.........
there is always one that streatches the intrepertation.

I was talking about in the nose and out the mouth............ but.............

I can see....... Billy has enlightened us to yet the other possibilities........


BILLY,,,,,,,,,
Why fart and smell.. when you can burp and taste?


Never mind.......
:shrug:

I remember another thread on the topic of breathing.

Damn, look at that! What are the chances that someone would find it?!?!

REVERSE ABDOMINAL BREATHING, by Chiduce (http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=958&perpage=15&pagenumber=2)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
He's the consumate authority on what Kenpo people are doing everywhere.

It's not my fault that Kenpo is fast becoming the north american version of TKD. I bet the koreans are cr@pping their pants hoping it doesn't spead over there.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by GouRonin



It's not my fault that Kenpo is fast becoming the north american version of TKD. I bet the koreans are cr@pping their pants hoping it doesn't spead over there.
:rolleyes:

Your just mad because there isn't a Kenpo school in your area that is willing to put up with your rebellious attitude and non-traditional ways. Jeeze, I wish I could go work out in a nurses uniform like you! :kiss:

A sure sign of a good student is that they keep asking questions and seeking new insights!

Kenpo_Yahoo had some good pointers. Biggest thing I'd have to say is that there is an eccentric and concentric motion w/in any motion. Breathe out on the concentric (motions moving away from your body) and in on the eccentric (toward your torso) motions. THERE IS NO HARD and FAST RULE!!!! Golden rule of Kenpo= there is no golden rule of Kenpo!

Experience, trial and error.
#1: Don't restrict your breathing as it would restrict the blood flow (oxygen) to your brain and muscles, leading to antagonistic tension... making you fatique 10X faster.

#2: Breathe naturally. Kenpo movements should become natural and follow natural paths of action... so should the breathing that 'carries' them. If it is unnatural... it will fight you.

#3: Something my sensei taught me when I was a child.... concentrate on a spot 2 inches below your navel and breathe from there... put your mind there and your breath... makes a diffeference.

Talk to you later!
See you on ICQ

Your Brother & Instructor
John

That was a good post Brudda John. Thanks! :asian:

Originally posted by Brother John



#3: Something my sensei taught me when I was a child.... concentrate on a spot 2 inches below your navel and breathe from there... put your mind there and your breath... makes a diffeference.



I've heard that spot called the tan tien. My old Kenpo instructor (Mr. Michael Abedin), back in the mid 80's said it was where your life force is located. At the begining of class we would mediate and breath to that point.

Sigung LaBounty has updated his site and it has some info on breathing and the kiai.

www.thesigung.com (http://www.thesigung.com)

jb:asian:

You said:
"where your life force is located."
Yes, according to esoteric thought the individual's life force emanates from this one point. In Yoga it is the point of life that one breathes through in order to 'bring in more life'. In almost every culture, breath is equated with life it's self. In Hebrew the word 'spirit' is Ruach, its the same word for wind or breath. In Greek gneuma means spirit and breath. In Hindu, prana means energy, life and breath. It's a very common thought. To the Chinese it is called the Tan-Tien, or 'lower furnace'... the 'heat' (aka; life) is churned and cultivated through the breath. This is the spot located roughly where I indicated before. In Japanese it is called the hara, and is said to be where the spirit (Kami, which also means wind) of an individual resides. This is the same as in the word 'hara-kiri', kiri meaning to cut and/or release, hara being the seat of the soul.

But it gets more basic than that for our use. If you like the esoteric stuff, great...run with it. But I'm talking here of it's practical application. To focus on the hara is to focus our attention on the pressure derived by the diaphram in its downward contraction. This contraction lowers the center of gravity, to aproximately the indicated area. In the martial arts we often speak of generating power with the hips. It is very effective. So if we concentrate on our 'hara', the point 1-2 inches below the navel, then we are:
1. Concentrating on our center of gravity to be sensitive to weight distribution, stability and power generation.
2. Being mindful or our breathing patterns.
3. Removing our 'attentive' mind off of the matter of fighting and toward a mundane foci (the hara). This serves to tap into our subconscious/ingrained reactions instead of relying on our slow and faltering ego/mind to 'choose'. The subconscious ACTS, our conscious mind 'chooses and decides'.

Something to think about!
Your Brother
John

Originally posted by Brother John

You said:
"where your life force is located."
Yes, according to esoteric thought the individual's life force emanates from this one point. In Yoga it is the point of life that one breathes through in order to 'bring in more life'. In almost every culture, breath is equated with life it's self. In Hebrew the word 'spirit' is Ruach, its the same word for wind or breath. In Greek gneuma means spirit and breath. In Hindu, prana means energy, life and breath. It's a very common thought. To the Chinese it is called the Tan-Tien, or 'lower furnace'... the 'heat' (aka; life) is churned and cultivated through the breath. This is the spot located roughly where I indicated before. In Japanese it is called the hara, and is said to be where the spirit (Kami, which also means wind) of an individual resides. This is the same as in the word 'hara-kiri', kiri meaning to cut and/or release, hara being the seat of the soul.

But it gets more basic than that for our use. If you like the esoteric stuff, great...run with it. But I'm talking here of it's practical application. To focus on the hara is to focus our attention on the pressure derived by the diaphram in its downward contraction. This contraction lowers the center of gravity, to aproximately the indicated area. In the martial arts we often speak of generating power with the hips. It is very effective. So if we concentrate on our 'hara', the point 1-2 inches below the navel, then we are:
1. Concentrating on our center of gravity to be sensitive to weight distribution, stability and power generation.
2. Being mindful or our breathing patterns.
3. Removing our 'attentive' mind off of the matter of fighting and toward a mundane foci (the hara). This serves to tap into our subconscious/ingrained reactions instead of relying on our slow and faltering ego/mind to 'choose'. The subconscious ACTS, our conscious mind 'chooses and decides'.

Something to think about!
Your Brother
John



Hey, what happened to the funny stuff? There I am, scrolling down the page, getting a kick out of the Jr. High humor, and BAM! I get hit right between the eyes with Yoga/Hebrew/Hindu/Chinese/Japanese life-center philosophy.

Sean

ps-is there an 's' in Nietsche??

It's an old story, but a friend who attended confirmed:
At Harvard, in the building where most of the philosophy and theology courses are taught there is a mens bathroom toilet stall with these words etched/scratched onto the inside:
"God is Dead" Nietsche

lower down it reads
"Nietsche is Dead" God
:rofl:

I always liked that one!

Sorry to disapoint you Sean. Mayhap I should throw in a few fart jokes to keep you coming back. :toilclaw:

Your Brother
John

PS: For those of you that don't know (and that's most of you) Sean (Pheonix) and I are BEST friends. So we kid...

Also Also Wik:
"Burt Bakarach? There's no 'S' in Burt Bakarach!"
"But there is in Carol Bayasaga, Carol does the lyrics, Burt Just writes the tunes..."


"Waiter!!! This conversation isn't very good!"










Sean: we could keep them guessing for a long time.
You game?

mutha :viking3:

Originally posted by Brother John


PS: For those of you that don't know (and that's most of you) Sean (Pheonix) and I are BEST friends. So we kid...

Also Also Wik:
"Burt Bakarach? There's no 'S' in Burt Bakarach!"
"But there is in Carol Bayasaga, Carol does the lyrics, Burt Just writes the tunes..."


"Waiter!!! This conversation isn't very good!"










Sean: we could keep them guessing for a long time.
You game?

mutha :viking3: [/B]

Hawaiin cuisine in an authentic dungeon atmosphere!

What about the kind of breathing that I hear just about every kenpo senior doing, the kind that sounds like they are ripping or tearing something?? I've heard Ed Parker do it, Larry tatum, Paul Mills, Frank Trejo, Tim Bulot, and the list goes on and on. I've played with it and besides the fact that I sound so f'n cool like all the big guys, the only thing that I can tell is that it really compresses your exhalation. I almost get the feeling like I'm breathing in and out at the same time, like the aborigines who play the didjerydo. I realize this post may sound silly, but I really do wonder if anyone has heard of any benefits of this method.

I have heard it too! My instructor picked it up from his (Mr. Mills) and uses it on me every chance he gets. It does many things for the practitioner... and I won't pretend to know them all, or even many. I know that it does help in generating and maintaining force thoughout a continuous flow of motion. It does sort of sound like a tearing, or like they have to clear their throat and hiss at the same time. The psychological effect of having it done on you is great, but it gets worse with time!!! The first time you hear it you kinda think "what the heck.." the split second before you really get smacked and smacked and whaked!!! Then you begin to hear it a second time....followed by the heat of the dragon, then again...
After a while I hear it and want to turn to run.
It also has a psychological effect on the one using it. Whenever Mr. Taylor does it and really rips off a 1000 strikes from as many angles and finishes... (if you wana call it that) its as though he now has more energy than when he began. Infact, I don't fear the technique that he uses it on nearly as much as I worry about the one that he does next.... with that energy that he just cultivated.
Spooky skill!
Working on it myself.
Your Brother
John
:bomb:

didjerydo????
didjerydo?????????
YOU actually used "didjerydo" in a sentence???

:roflmao:

...think I've got a new hero...


:boing1:
Your Brother
John..
...who has never played a didjerydo, yet.

There is a video clip with sound of Mr. Mills executing this particular sound. Sorry not to post it here, but I have not taken the time to ask if i could "Borrow it". So here is the link


http://www.akki.com/lasVegas/videos/mov02202.mpg

Best Regards

Jeremy