I have to ask....why does it seem that the more I look at some of the "founders" or "leaders" of various well known systems (no, I'm not naming names), they tend to be quite obviously out of shape? I don't mean a little paunch around the middle as old age sets in, I mean Budda like.

I mean no disrespect but, how can someone who is a leader of an art, who I presume is activly training, allow themselves to "puff-out" like that?

And what happens to their credibility when they do the seminar circuit?

I do martial arts to get in shape...good healthy shape...not round...i'm there now. :) Just hard to be inspired sometimes, I guess. :(

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I have to ask....why does it seem that the more I look at some of the "founders" or "leaders" of various well known systems (no, I'm not naming names), they tend to be quite obviously out of shape? I don't mean a little paunch around the middle as old age sets in, I mean Budda like.


At the last George Dillman seminar I attended he used precisely that phrase ("Buddha-like") and stated that it was to protect the lethal pressure points just under the rib cage that are attacked by upward blows under the floating ribs.

I am somewhat skeptical of this answer.

Wow, I gotta remember that line as an excuse to ignore my beer storage down below ;)

I do like that line. Do you really think people will buy it however ? Kinda insulting. You know I have seen many people who will never be "cut" or have that typical inshape look as genetically it's impossible for them. My first Kali Instructor was like this. Infact due to it I thought twice about training with him, until I saw him move. To this day he is unreal. He will aslo do as many conditioning Thai rounds as anyone else.
Just the way things are. Look for reality in their movement

Some are fat but have done this for so long they have been able to keep up with others just based on learning how to do the stuff so well they don't need to be in shape.

Some are just fat and lazy and coasting on prior accomplishments.

You decide.
:boing1:

Its just that we base so much on initial impressions. The "fat" guy may move like lightning once he gets going, but how many folks walk in, see a "fat" guy, and leave, unimpressed?

I've trained with individuals who definately know their stuff, and are "out of shape", but sadly, I still wonder if the art is that good, why aren't they in better shape? I dunno...just, not inspired I guess. :(

Arnisador -

One of the funniest things I've read in a long time!! And I'm sorry to disagree with you IFAJKD, but no one has a genetic beer gut! Now, some people will show 4 abs with a washboard, some 6, some people would have to go to extreme measures to get "ripped", but no one hangs over their belt due to genetics.

I also agree with Gou, that it is not necessary to be a physical speciman to be a great martial artist. However, if it's your full time job, I would think you would try to be presentable.

My wing chun teacher was about 6', 300 pounds, and a baad man, but maybe he'd still be around if he kept his weight down.

Icepick,
Thats my point...its 1 thing if you do it part time, as a hobby, but when youre the founder of a system, supposedly training hard, doing the seminar circuit, its another thing totally. A little paddings fine, but looking like youre about to give birth to twin sumo's???? GAHHHHHH!!!!!!!

:shrug:

:asian:

Well, I hear ya but I do believe that there is a genetic factor. Some people have thicker lower legs due to heart problems and some people have an impaired metobolic rate that doesnt burn fat and carbs effeciently. Having worked with and lived with (wife) an exercise physiologist, we have discussed all of these things. eating disorders (over eating type) that are not genetic but psychological etc. there most certainly is a genetic factor for many. No not the beer gut ones, obvisously not. You can see the ones that are. I try not to be too judgemental about some of these people. Then again as I stated earlier, they really can be surprising.

These guys working the eminar circuit may seem to have it real easy, but think about it really. You plan a seminar, there goes training time, they have families so plan the seminar has to come out of training time instead of family time. Then there is sitting around in airports waiting for flights, thats more training time wasted. The flight takes time, usually a meal or 2 in travel with out any time to burn it off. You need time to rest when you arrive. Then it is time to do the seminar, followed by an opulent meal, do you work off that meal. No you have a few beers to wash it down. The next day it is back to the airport to head home or to the next seminar. Travel really takes a lot out of a body and a work out is not always a reality when a person is on the seminar circuit.

I think we try to turn thes e Senior Martial Artists into more than they are. They are men and women just like the rest of us. They are also a little older than most of us. Let us see how often we want to be out on the floor when we hit out late 50's early 60's. We can all say that I will alsways want to be on the floor, but realistically we have no idea what our lives will be like when we are at those ages. These guys have paid their dues, they are out there for us. It is wrong for us to be disrespectful to them because of their weight.

I say if a person has a real problem with the size of one of these guys let them say it to that persons face.

Rob...spunky reply... I like it. No kidding the seminar stuff is a real drag. I can only imagine how it would be at their level. One kool thing stening to Dan Inosanto. Look at him and he is in better shape now than when he was 30. He said he attributes this to ground fighting. Man he just gets better and better. when training in a sensitivity art you just get better and better rather than more and more crippled from all the intense contact stuff. Dan would say that he can't fight a great 10 round anything but today he can fight the best first round he ever has. He and many others will have my respect.

I got no problem with fat guys but a fat guy at the front of the class yelling for me to get a move on when he can't even do what he's asking me to do just ain't right.
:angry:

Gou I agree, I don't mind the Big Guys. But one stuffing a ham down his throat as he tells me to working harder, toasts my nuggets. I respect these big guys that go out do the stuff right along with ya. The other guys ain't worth the time. There are also so thin guys who do the same thing but for some reason no one gets on their case.

See, I understand about the challenges with travel...but I also know most hotels have a gym. Or if you're staying with a friend or associate, I'm sure you're welcome to an extra half hour at their facilities. I dunno...I can give em the extra couple of pounds, but I've seen a few folks...ick..the 1 guy was very obviously over the 350# mark....it wasn't an image that inspired me. I understand the paying of the dues, old age, etc. But still...when I hear of guys like Buddy Rogers (pro wrestler) who was still in ring shape in his late 70's... it shouldn't be too hard (I think) for a 40ish MA guy to not look like a sumo.

Then again...I may be letting my visual sence prevent me from an excelent learning experience. :(

A little of the thread, but after 1 seminar with Burton Richardson, we took him out to an Italian place to eat. He had his own salad in a tupperware bowl, with a bottle of fat free dressing in his bag. Must come from life in California. ;)

When I was in a hospital sponsored hotel when my daughter was sick, I still found time to use their gym. Unfortunately, the WaveMaster bag they had wasn't a good idea on the top floor of the building. Every time I kicked that thing, it's echo throughout the building. Not only did I get to keep in shape a bit, it helped put my mind off seeing my baby girl with all those wires and tubes sticking out of her.

I seem to recall Bruce Lee being asked about aging. He said something to the effect that, when he was in his 60's or 70's, there wouldn't be another 60 or 70 year old that could touch him :)

I agree with the others on here who've basically stated that how large a person is doesn't matter as long as that person can perform. Now, if an instructor is sitting in a lounge chair and expects me to do some strenuous workout while he's eating a tub of Cheetos, he's got another think coming. However, I've seen plenty of big fellas who could put a mean hurting on me. Basically, I give them the benefit of the doubt. If they can put up, I shut up. If they can't put up, then they'd better shut up :)

Cthulhu
back to my usual babbling

No disrespect to anyone here but ....

Would you be talking in such a way if said "Over Weight Masters" were part of the membership?

Until you walk in someones shoes, I don't think you should be so disrespectful. :shrug:

I happen to know one of those "Over Weight Masters", and I hope he never sees this string. (I won't be informing him) I wonder how willing any of them would be to assist people on these this or any forum, if they did.

But then again, it is very much your right to speak your mind and that I do respect.

I honestly mean no disrespect towards any of them. I'll be the first to admit, I know nothing of their situations.

I guess what really bothered me about the 1 individual, is I saw pics from 10 years ago, and he was in great shape...now, he really looked sad, and it bothered me.

I know from experience that looks are deceiving...my Wing Chung Sifu could run rings around me despite giving the appearence of being out of shape. I wish I could track him down as I was finally enjoying martial arts again when various situations (my eye surgury for 1) caused us to lose track of each other. :(

I had this fat little tai chi teacher a few years back who moved quicker than I can follow (all that video game eye training considered). He was like lightning...just very Budda like in shape. ;)

And..in all honesty..I know how hard it is to drop a few pounds when you have a hecktic schedule and poor eating habbits.

If they were to visit, and say to me "you don't understand. Theres reasons, and they are good" I'd say "I understand. I forgot the Tao". But if they just got that way because they got lasy, or complacent, I don't think I'd have the same feeling.

I'm human..I want my teacher to be the best, always. To be Superman. Sometimes, you forget they are human too.

I think there are a few of us who haven't really said anything terribly negative. Basically, if that person, like anybody else, can do the stuff, it doesn't matter.

I do see your point, though...there have been some rather negative comments.

Cthulhu

For understanding my point. I doo understand there was no true disrespect intended. More just a matter of thinking through what you are putting on a "Public Forum", for who knows to read.

I would like to add though. Is it a matter of the Master being able to "do" what he "teaches"? Is it not a matter that he can "teach" good quality skills and techniques? Can a football coach go out on the field and rumble with the big boys? I would say the majority can't. Even boxing, some of the really great coaches, uses other more experienced students to give examples while he "tweaks" the skills to perfection.

Circumstances in an individual’s life changes day to day. Who's to say what the reason for a persons decline, as long as they continue to teach "Good Quality Skills".

But then again that's just my opinion, I do tend to be biased on the subject. :asian:

Way to go Dot, give em hell. These "out of shape Masters" are just people like the rest of us. They do have lives outside of training regardless of how appalling this may seem to some people. We must also take into consideration the body breaks down over time, and serious injuries do happen. If this happens then the person usually packs it on.

Ditto. The Age Thing does catch up with us all. However, when we are young those things are not considered. It is a defensive mechanism we use to rationalize our youthful foolishness. :)

Who said that youth is wasted on the young?:shrug:

ok now you're into another area. Fat people not training and eating big ol hams in front of a clas yelling to work it. Ok I get it.. No. yuk:eek: but putting that person aside, I have seen many over weight people do amasing things. Priorities are such that one trains for what they find important. If physical looks are not high on the list so be it. They still condition, train for skill and CAN do it. I weight train and my first Kali Instructoir did not he could move unlike many I have seen yet. Again. some people will never look as if they train yet they do as hard or harder than many others that look great, Others still will be unable to look different as genetically they cannot do as much about their lot in life.

I will however stay away from the ham eater in a seminar.:D

The gentleman in question and I have spoken on numourous occasions regarding his weight. He is capable of many things and is a fine teacher. He however does not push his students and not do anything himself. SO HE DOES NOT FALL INTO THIS CATAGORY. However I have told him many times that I fear for his life because of his weight. I think of him as a friend and would hate to lose him. He himself is aware of it and working on losing some weight. Anything he does however is NOT dependant on his size, with the possible exception of his power. He himself will say this.

Okie dokie, here comes the rant.
:D

It sounds like a lot of people here and elsewhere are trying to find way to justify their size. That's it's ok to be that big. Fine, if you want to belive that that's ok. But if you think that your body does not suffer from carrying excess weight then you're just fooling yourself.

Why am I so pissed about this? I'm not a heavy guy. It's not because I'm not heavy that I'm pissed it's because everyone whines that I shouldn't pick on heavy guys. Hey, you know what? It seems it's a-ok to make fun of the smaller slim guys. Earlier you yourself made jokes about my lack of girth. It seems it's ok to make fun of people who are slim. But you know what? I HAVE to work out to keep my weight on. It's been a constant struggle to keep the weight I have on now. Yet it's a laughing riot to make fun of the size of people who are slim. So while you're all whining and complaining how hard it is to lose weight for some of us it's hard to put that weight on. You might have no clue that some of us have to work at that because when we get sick we don't have the weight to get better faster. But because people are so PC it's not ok to say to someone "you're fat," but it's ok to laugh about how skinny people are. I spent a lot of work building up to my size that I am now. That's why I never make fun of heavier people because you never know if they may have just lost a lot of weight. They should be congratulated for it.

As for not saying anything to anyone, well you know I have no problem saying these things to anyone's face. If someone wants to roll up to me and joke about how skinny I am then they better be prepared to hear back how much of a fat chunk I think they might be. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. Otherwise I am quite content to keep my mouth shut and accept people how they are.

My whole beef is with people who ask you to do things while they themselves are waaay out of shape. It doesn't mean they are bad teachers. Good teachers will ask you to push yourselves anyway. There are thin teachers who are just as bad. But don't try to shame me into silence or think it's ok to make pokes but not get poked.

Alrighty. I said my piece. Keil...here I come.
:soapbox:

Gou I believe that is whay I was saying when I mentioned the skinny guys in my earlier comment. You just said it much more passionately. Size should not be an issue. But unfortunately it does come into play. What is really important is whether the person has the knowledge.

I don't know if anyone is trying to justify their weight. so hold on sparky. I am 5'11" and 195 I train hard to keep this too. but alas, the older I get the less it wants to stay without more effort. You made a good point on both ends. There is this bizzare standard that everyone seems to think they should fall into. real women vs models and hollywood males vs real men. VanDamn is like a small guy but couldn't tell from the movies. Add martial arts to the equation and more expectations on how a "warrior" should look. Who the hell cares. If you like your life style and conditioning then cool. if you don't...change it. Get to the level you are able to get to and #$@K em. If you can't change what you have been delt then learn to accept it and take up mindful walking:asian:

My only rebuttal, would be to say that my teasing you earlier, was in reply to an amusing picture I saw of you. This string was of a more serious vein and I needed to make a comment. That's all, I was not speaking to any one individual, but the group.

I understand your feelings, and I agree with what you have said. It doesn't matter who you are, jokes and teasing about a persons size be they small or big, hurts. I apologize if my teasing earlier, irked you. :(

Dot

Actually, Gou made a valid point...the thin are just as 'judged'. How many times have you seen a really thin person and thought "he's not an athlete"...but somehow, he's got more endurance than any 10 guys. :) (wish it was me, I get tired sleeping) ;)

I honestly never looked at it from that angle...definately eye opening.

Thank you.
:asian:

I just want to keep my size so I don't have to buy more clothes. I loathe clothes shopping :)

I think IFAJKD touched on a point that I'll elaborate on a bit. In North America, the general public has an image of what a martial artist should look like, which unfortunately comes from film, TV, etc. They expect martial artists to look like Bruce Lee, VanDummy, Jackie Chan, and Chuck Norris. So, your average Joe Shmoe may have second thoughts of training at a school where the head instructor may appear to be overweight. Unfortunately, by and large, we are a culture of first impressions based on physical appearance. Joe Shmoe may not stick around to find that that instructor happens to be very knowledgeable and an excellent instructor. That is unfortunate. It's also Joe Shmoe's loss.

I think the martial arts community should be less prejudiced in this regard. How many of us have seen tiny little men and women, or bigger, overweight instructors do some amazing things? I'm pretty sure most of us have seen this directly, or have heard of it secondhand at least. Therefore, we know not to judge a person's abilities by physical appearance alone. However, the general non-martial arts public hasn't had that experience to shake off this mentality.

Cthulhu
my train of thought derailed, so excuse me if this post ended abruptly :)

Regarding 'skinny' people.

Look at Bruce Lee. I think at his heaviest, he was around 145lbs, maybe 5'7". With the exception of a few large muscle groups (his lats, pecs, forearms, and abs), he was very skinny. Yet he could generate unbelieveable power from his small body. He performed feats that many body builders couldn't match.

On a similar note, I used to lift weights with my drummer long ago (again, all photos and recordings have been destroyed, and the photographers and recording engineers murdered :)). He was incredibly skinny, and didn't have a lot of muscle. He could eat and eat, but wouldn't gain weight. However, he could always bench more than me, though I outweighed him by about 50lbs. That's always amazed me. And pi$$ed em off :D

Cthulhu
if there's a point buried in the post, would someone point it out to me? :)

I think you nailed it there. We should look beyond, but dont.

I wasn't offended. Just didn't know any other way to get my point across. I don't care if someone is skinny or fat. Just get on the floor and have fun. You know that about me. I could care less what people look like, on the floor is where it counts. Just wanted to show that for every ying there is a yang we might never see. Opposites and reverses.

Besides, I could never be offended. I have a big dinky, I know how to use it, and that goes a long way for the ego.
:rofl:

If people want to see an amazing "big guy" the should watch Sammo Hyung. This guy is definitely overweight but can move like nobody's business.

Gou - too much information....:eek: :erg: :idea: :hammer: :boing2:

Rob - again, another good point...he's a trip to watch too. :)

Sammo Hung is amazing. However, I think the general public would rather see a VanDoofus, or Jackie Chan, rather than someone like Hung. Us martial artists know better :)

Even so, even Hung appears to have lost weight. This could be just for his health, but I can see the network bigwigs having a say, in order to make Sammo more 'marketable' to the North American viewers.

Again, it all stems from society in general, and even possibly from inherent instictual crap encoded in our genes, but let's not get into a zoological/anthropological/biology discussion, eh? :D

Cthulhu

If you really stop to think about it, these "Masters" have earned their position, one way or another. If they have proper credentials, and have been awarded the position as an instructor, then does it really matter what size they may be? If a overly large instructor is telling you to get on the floor and give him 50 push-ups, then what should be stopping you? Just because he is no longer able to do this, has no bearing on what you will gain, by accomplishing this. If push-ups or whatever are used as a means of correcting an error, who's error was it?
I'm sure if a "master" has earned this position, he has already put in, his share of being in same position, and learning from it.
Did you join martial arts to watch what others are capable of? Or did you join to excell and see what you are capable of? How is it going to benefit you, by having your instructor on floor doing the push-ups, or excersises, or seeing what he is still capable of doing physicaly? If he has the knowledge and the know-how to teach you properly and direct you, then it is YOU who must be working on it. If you truly are questioning a master, soley based on his weight, then I would suggest you "empty your cup" before going in, forget about this judgement, and look with an open mind and heart, to what they truly have to offer and whether you are willing to learn from them, in a respectful, open minded, and loyal way.
I can see an issue, if the instructor is so out of shape that he is not able to critique and supervise properly. Or if his weight should pose serious health conditions and interfers with your training on a regular basis.. But just remember, ones weight, does not determine, ones knowledge.! Isn't it the knowledge of our founders and masters, what we are actualy seeking to learn?
Too many people have forgotten about the "true martial way". Many times, the best fighting techniques learned, do not come from our physical training in the Dojo.. It comes from experience and learning how to be a better and stronger person, inside and out. No matter how strong you get on the outside, it is your learning and knowledge on the inside that will carry you through and bring you the greatest rewards.. You can become ill and lose your muscle abilities, but unless you are brain dead, you will always have that knowledge.. Knowledge is our first and best weapon. Not our fighting skills and power.. Take the time to learn from everyone, no matter their size, shape, disability, or whatever.. It can only make you a better martial artist.
On a final note; One of my favorite "teachers" was a man in a wheelchair, who had been in car accident and left paralyzed from waist down, had spastic muscles, and a speech impediment. And he just happen to weigh around 350 pounds.. He taught me some things, that actualy ended up, saving my life, during a hard battle with an illness.. I guess it goes to show everyone, you never know what you got in front of you, till you are willing to be open enough to seek out it's true lessons. And everyone, no matter what their weight, has something to offer..
Victoria
:asian:

I can agree with everyone on this subject. I have been on both sides of the weight issue. I have never been small, but for a brief moment in time I was in good shape. As time went by and life issues came about I ballooned up closed to 400 pounds. I never lost the respect from my class mates, but I found myself limited in what I loved to do. If it was'nt for a good balance of good humor, and just blunt humor I would still be a very large guy. So, I think this thread is really productive for those people who are struggling with either of the extremes.
The interesting benefit to being so big or skinny is that potential situations are diffused really quickly because your abilities that you have refined are disguised by your outer exterior, and when the person who may take issue with you see you move they tend to think twice about pursuing the matter.
I have learned a lot people from both extremes. I have met, the in shape, the skinny, the large and the downright fat and have learned a heck of lot from everyone, the first impression was was overruled by their display of love for the arts.............
And why were at it, lets not forget about those short little girls who us large guys always underestimate, I have learned a couple of good lessons from them too. :) :) :) :) :)
Bob

Bravo Victoria

That was very well put. I too agree with your way of looking at it. If they are wearing that rank and are respected by their peers, then who am I to question them.

Bob said

As time went by and life issues came about I ballooned up closed to 400 pounds. I never lost the respect from my class mates

But don't let him kid you, he could still move like a cat on his feet and moving Bob was like trying to move a mountain around? Very fast hands and extremly good knife man that is why his nickname is "Knife Bob" around here. He is a brother!

Pappy Geo

If I hear one more person tell me the "True Martial Way" I'm gonna scream. Keep it to yourself.
:soapbox:

Gou, dude, sit Ubu sit.
We need to have people that look at the more evolved aspects of martial arts or we just become ground and pounders. as far as the "true martial way" that is a personal journey. I believe there are many "martial ways" but for many this is the reason they train.
Personally martial arts are war arts simply......As weme proficient in any aspect of these and fear becomes less powerful we, in the absense of that controlling fear (or use your own word if anyone has issues with the word fear) we become less self absorbed and more in tune with not having to prove anything, with others, with the world around us and with life in general. Isn't that a "martial way" You strive for a balance between physical, spiritual, psychological, emotional and for some metaphysical,. If you don't you burn out and fade away. the ones who remain here tomorrow have this balance.
Maybe in some people, physical skill can be transcended. ? maybe ?
It's early and these thoughts are not fully developed and I may have gone astray but I will hit the submit button any way and let the groans fall where they may.

Bow wow!

:cuss::D

scratch, scratch, kibble anyone::rofl:

General Choi, Hong Hi of Taekwon-Do fame is now 84 and teaching.

There is no sign of a beer belly on this Grand Master

i've only been in karate for less than a year. But putting up with some of the uh... poop.... that our teachers have to deal with (from politics to conflicts to students like myself) would convince me that popping back a few after instruction is not only comfort, but an absolute necessity.

If they need a few beers after the trauma of trying to instruct the tots class, who am I to point fingers?:rolleyes: :drinkbeer

Originally posted by brianbarton
General Choi, Hong Hi of Taekwon-Do fame is now 84 and teaching.

There is no sign of a beer belly on this Grand Master

And your point is? Certain people have a predestination to be large. Just because Choi, Hong Hi doesn't have a gut, does that mean all the Korean masters don't have guts.

Yeah, I've heard big boned before. If that's the case....

Why haven't we ever seen a fat skeleton???

>:O

Texas in the united states of america was declared the fattest spot on earth in a recent survey.

In looking to see what people's had the largest population of overweight persons, texas was declared the "fattest" state in the union. The united states was declared the fattest country globally.

Apparently everything is large in texas.

I have never seen a fat skeleton either, but it is not the skeleton that holds fluids. It is our tissues and fat that hold liquids, and therefore weight. People are predestined to be fat or thin. If a person like these "out of shape master" as it is are ok with their bodies, who is to say anything. They have been there, they have done all the workouts back in the day when karate was very hardcore and there wasn't 5th degree 12 yr olds. Someone wants to say something about these guys I just say, "Say it to their face", one of us with respect will help pick you up off the the floor when it is all over.

In the words of Dan Inosanto....."I may not be able to go 12 rounds very well anymore, but I will fight the best 1st round I ever have in my life". :asian:

Ok. Let me first say that some of the best trainers could not do the art they train others for. This I have no problem with. Ali once said that he only knew about him fighting and couldn't train anyone worth a lick.

Inosanto is NOT out of shape. He's also quite possibley the end all be all of the martial arts world today as far as living instructors go.

I think the issue is that teaching skills aside a lot of these guys are out of shape. Not that it reflects on their ability to convay material. However there are those guys who fall into the catagory of yelling at students to do things they themselves are not and probably were not capable of. having some fat guy screaming at me to do a zillion push ups when he can't do one isn't heart warming. It's not like I'm walking around telling every martial artist they're a fat slob. I'm saying that I can't do spinning tornado kicks, so I don't make others do them and flip out if they can't.

Most instructors worth their salt admit to their state of their fitness and usually their skill allows them to get away with it.

So if I have a problem with a guy I will tell them so. Hopefully those guys who have "respect" (or possible no balls to say anything) can pick me up after I say it. Unless of course I start running and the guy drops dead after 20 feet because he can't catch me and his heart stops, or his knees blow out. Then you can pick him up.

I can't believe the lengths people go to in an effort to justify being fat and out of shape!!! It's very politically correct. When someone weighs 2 times a regular person and is twice the size and gets on a plane why shouldn't they be charged 2 seats? But noooooo! Let's complain that our dignity is crushed, our human rights are being trampled. Sometimes it goes too far. Let's stay in reality.

p.s. - I think the woman who sued mcdonald's because she spilled her coffee in her lap is a moron too!

SPINNING TORNADO KICK Everyone can do those!!!!!!
Dan Is the alpha and omega of MA as far as I am concerned too. Point is people age and yet the arts live on. I say just mix it all up train for life and love it. from that....who really cares how someone looks. If I find myself having a problem with it. I will go somewhere else. There is always something to learn and places to grow. see ya

Befor we get carried away lets remember that
some may have medical reasons for being in the
shape they are in. Do we practice with someone because they are in shape or because they have knowledge that we would like?
I have known a few masters and even two (legit)grandmasters tthat could have been considered way out of shape but they had worlds of knowledge that I would not have been privy to anywhere else. And yes they moved with grace and beauty in their deadly dance.
Shadow

I agree with you IFAJKD.

As for shadow, I am not speaking of those who have great knowledge being unable to share it because of their size etc. Most of them are pretty open about their condition, be it good or bad, and explain how their art has helped them.

This one seems to be a tough hurdle to get over for many people. Seprate people, seperate!

This reminds me of the argument that size doesn't matter in martial arts.

Hey man!! I RESEMBLE that remark!!! But check out Sammo Hung- he's a fat boy who can rock-n-roll (no pun intended)!

We have a technique in Kenpo called "Bowing to Buddha". Makes me think...

What do you call an grayed hair, pot belly nearly 60 years old Combative Arts instructor? Maybe stealth?

Pappy Geo

"Bowing to Buddha".??

Isn't that the one where ya get nailed in the jewels? >_<

Pappy Geo wrote:

What do you call an grayed hair, pot belly nearly 60 years old Combative Arts instructor? Maybe stealth?


I would say, "Sir."

Yes Bowing to Buddha is the techniques hwere you are down on one knee, you block his kick or kneewith a hammerfist, followed by a backfist to the other thigh making his hips buckle outward, so his groin is exposed, then fore knuckle strike downward into the groin as the other hand comes up to the groin.

The though of it makes my jewels want to crawl in the intestines and hide.

My girlfriend (brown in Amer. Kenpo) "really" likes that one....

as a matter of fact, when they were learning it..her and a friend (1st black) kept giggling manically while "practicing".

I felt, uneasy.....
so did the rest of the guys in class...

We felt very glad we weren't working with them.

Women have that ability to make grown men cringe like little waifs. It just isn't fair.


I also bet it was a woman who invented the drinking straw. No matter how masculine you are you can never look tough drinking thru a straw.

No comment. :)

man, we're drifting here....

<richard simmons voice> "Back on topic people...back on topic" </rich>

:D

Here's a quote from Kondo sensei, Soke Dairi of Daito ryu, that I thought you all might find interesting ;)

"Physically speaking, it is better to be slim than overweight. However, spirtually speaking, it is better to be fat than thin."

Man going through airport turnstyle sideways going to bangkok.

It seems to me that the kenpo senior vary greatly in size and shape. Tom Kelley is a monster. Joe Palanzo is pretty small. There are lots of other examples (SGM Parker was certainly not a little guy). I've seen plenty of people who deserved their rank (and plenty who, in my opinion, did not) but size and shape didn't seem to have much to do with it.

Jim

Fat instructors may not be so fast but you´ll certainly know it if they fall on you. Any Sumos on this messageboard? Must count as a Martial Art.