What about the clothing that a woman may be wearing? Not to say that someone in a skirt deserves to get attacked, but it seems to me that a bad guy would be more likely to go after someone in a skirt and high heels than someone wearing a gymsuit. The skirt would make it difficult to kick esp in the heels. I don't know about grappling in skirt and heels -- never tried it. Any thoughts?

Good food for thought. It's been my experience that a joint lock will work regardless of what clothes are being worn. But to address your concerns...

The skirt would make it difficult to kick esp in the heels.
Since Ive never worn heels (but have seen my fiancee stumble around in them at times) my comments should be taken from that perspective. I think kicks where your plant leg has to pivot would be especially difficult depending on your heels and your comfort level with kicking. Your foot would already be in a natural position (ball of foot down heel up) to move. However, high high heels would make it difficult to lift your heel that much higher to get the heel of the shoe off the ground.
I think it would also depend on the skirt. How tight/short it is would probably limit your movement but in a situation like this, I would imagine, your concern would be to get away and not whether you've lifted your skirt up too high. See below also.

I don't know about grappling in skirt and heels -- never tried it.
Maybe you should try it. Get some people you really trust and work on some "real world" self-defense scenarios in your skirt and heels. See what gets in the way and what problems arise with grappling and kicking. Try it with different skirt/shoe combinations.
You should never have to change your wardrobe because you fear an attack but its good to recognize that what you wear may get in the way.
Good luck.
:asian:

I have conducted classes in street clothes. Since my preferred mode of attire is jeans/dockers and cowboy boots, I am familiar with wearing some type of heal. It gives some insight when teaching women. As far as a skirt goes, you can try having them work our in a hakima as it as close as standard training clothes are going to get.(IMHO)

Okay, coming from a females point of view being in a skirt w/heels is not that difficult. As for kicking, heels can make it harder, I prefer the platform style dress shoes more than I do heels anyways. Skirts can be challengeing if you kick. But if my life is in danger, I'm prepared to kick and have my skirt rip, the skirt is replaceable. The shorter/lose skirts are probably the easiest to kick in, the harder ones are the long/tight skirts w/no slits on the sides. It really does depend on the type of skirt and whether the woman wearing the skirt thinks that it is just an object that can be replaced. I have tried to kick with a skirt on, it's not much different, but I learned the hard way not to kick with a long skirt on, my favorite and the side seam ripped, thank goodness for moms that sew.

Also another thing to remember is that you don't have to kick. There are plenty of hand techniques and variations of targets and weapons. The knee is also just as effective. Like Seig said he's had us all come in in street clothes and that is always fun. I can normally kick guys 6 ft. in their heads with my gi pants, it's a different story though in my jeans, but I and others in class have learned to adapt. That's what we're taught is to adapt to our surroundings, you can't possibly be in your gi's all the time.:asian:

Anyone else remember the kicking jeans they used to sell (and maybe still do)? I actually bought a pair in the 70s (or mor elikely convinced my mother to buy them for me).

Originally posted by arnisador

Anyone else remember the kicking jeans they used to sell (and maybe still do)? I actually bought a pair in the 70s (or mor elikely convinced my mother to buy them for me).

Oh yeah, I had a pair, took alot of coaxing on my part to get my mom to buy them, but I liked them. I had several pair after that. Whenever I try on pants, I do a like 3 or 4 kicks in the dressing room just to make sure I can extend a bit in them. I'm probably just a weirdo though.


7sm

Originally posted by arnisador

Anyone else remember the kicking jeans they used to sell (and maybe still do)? I actually bought a pair in the 70s (or mor elikely convinced my mother to buy them for me).
Century Martial Arts Supply has them again, they are marketing them as Billy Jack jeans. It's in their fall/winter catalog.

just a thought...that was the first thing my instructor always addressed when teaching women's self-defense. he taught women to take the heels off. make it instinctive. they become great weapons when held in the hands!! whit a skirt...don't know - i've never worn one;) but, if you wear that a lot, work out that way! practice low kicks to the knee, shin, and top of foot. hehe...make 'em regret attacking you!!

:samurai: :samurai:

Originally posted by 7starmantis



Oh yeah, I had a pair, took alot of coaxing on my part to get my mom to buy them, but I liked them. I had several pair after that. Whenever I try on pants, I do a like 3 or 4 kicks in the dressing room just to make sure I can extend a bit in them. I'm probably just a weirdo though.


7sm

I think a lot of martial artists test their jeans as its the main choice for casual wear. People generally wear these to the bar or other places more likely for confrontations to occur. However, I have done this in suits, khakis and slacks. You just never know where a confrontation will occur and what you will be wearing. :asian:

My memory of the gusseted jeans are from the 80's when Chuck Norris was promoting them and there was a picture of him kicking with the focus on his crotch on the cover of the Century catalog. I still have nightmares. :)

Trying to kick in skirt and high heels... no thanks...
Lucky for me I rarley wear that kind of cloths :rolleyes:

Originally posted by LittleGirl

Trying to kick in skirt and high heels... no thanks...
Lucky for me I rarley wear that kind of cloths :rolleyes:
Guys,
to get the feel for what it may be like. Try it in a kilt! Granted that is very loose, but.......

I could do a sidekick in my prom dress.

really.

I checked.


when I do wear heels I always make sure they are the pump or sandal kind. nothing with an ankle strap. If I need to run, the shoes come off. Frankly, if you have to run more than a block or two, you're probably gonna get caught anyway, because you were someplace you ought not to have been. If you're more than a block or two away from safety, which basically equals any other human being, because no criminal wants a witness, reconsider your location. lol.

However, whenever I'm dressed up, I'm never alone, so having to run or defend myself would probably not be an issue, since criminals tend to target people who are by themselves.

usually, I do not wear clothing that I can't defend myself in. I like to dress up, but when I wear a short dress, it is always made out of a stretchy material or something loose or slit, so I can move. When I wear a long dress, it has to be slit up the side, or I won't even try it on. those sheath style dresses are problems waiting to happen. you can't even walk in a full stride, much less run or kick if you need to.

I don't think they make mens jeans out of this fabric, but for the ladies (or gentlemen with interesting and unusual wardrobe habits), they have stretch denim. Your jeans can look skin tight if you want them to, but you can move in them just like in leggings or a gi. I can sidekick over my head and not worry about tearing them.

I always check to make sure I can move in my clothing before I buy it. I must have really confused the guys monitoring the security cameras... they were probably wondering why the heck I was doing sidekicks in the dressing rooms!

haha, that sounds like me! I'll be trying on a suit, or dress pants, and I'm doing all sorts of kicks. My system doesn't focus on high kicks so its not as bad, but I'm sure people are wondering why I'm doing inside crescent kicks in the dressing room. I just feel more comfortable if I know I can move in my clothes, regardless of the style, dress or casual!

7sm

I will never have to worry about kicking in a skirt\dress...
I loath them... I feel to vunerable in them.. so.. I make it easy on myself and stick to pants and shorts...
If anyone has ever seen a pic of me in a dress... its my body double.. trust me!! LOL (only wore like 3 dresses in my life.. only cuz i was standing up in weddings.. and I hated it like HELL!!)
Bleck... i don't even like dressing me up.. hell if i die tomorrow. .bury me in jeans and my red wing jersey.. or better yet.. my Dobok (ghee):D

Every once in a while I ask the class to come in dresses in suits and dresses(skirts).
I make sure to tell the ladies to wear bathing suits or shorts under their dresses.
THe workout is basicly the same as always with the exception of doing situps and leg lifts. WE do our blocks, kicks, spareing,etc. Its a good idea to know what you can and can not do in varrious clothing.
Shadow

Here's something I got from my first instructor, a very short woman: look at the kenpo techniques, "Reversing Mace," and "Repeating Mace," and look at the mechanics of the downward looping roundhouse kick.

Thanks.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Whenever I try on pants, I do a like 3 or 4 kicks in the dressing room just to make sure I can extend a bit in them. I'm probably just a weirdo though.


don't feel singled out...I do the same thing. I always make sure I go into the...er...ahem...handicapped changing room, tends to have a bit more space, and I throw a few kicks in a new pair of jeans as well. I never buy a pair of pants that I can't get my leg up in. maybe I'm a weirdo, too...

None of you are strange for kicking before buying. You're all very smart. I wish I thought of it. I will kick before buying pants and skirts from now on.

I very rarely wear skirts/dresses, when I need to dress up I'm far more comfortable in a nice women's cut suit. I also don't wear really tight clothing. I'm all for loose comfy clothes that allow me full range of motion.

One small warning about the heels though. They do make great weapons but possibly too good. It really doesn't take that much pressure to do serious damage to the human body (ie. the skull only takes something like 8 lbs/sqare inch or something I think.) Something like a spike heel makes a very concentrated point of impact so it is possible to do more damage then you meant to.

Just a breif point of caution.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't do everything you can to save yourself from attack. I fully plan to use everything available to me if I ever get attacked, just pointing out something I would never have thought of if someone else hadn't brought it to my attention.

Just kidding, but some of us "secure" kinda lads, do have and wear a kilt. I know I could defend myself in it, if I had to. Plenty of room, and the show might drive the other assailants off.

But seriously, practice in what you normally wear, or tailor and practice techniques that work in the attire you wear:

1. Most of the time; and
2. Are most likely to be wearing in higher risk situations.

Specifically, if you like short, tight, little black dresses on a Friday night, and are going dancing with a bunch of girlfriends and plan on staying out late, you need to make sure that whatever system you study, has techniques that are effective in those circumstance. Taekwondo is great for smaller individuals (or long legged persons) who rather pit the strength of their legs against an assailant pawing, grabbing or trying to molest or assualt you. However, given the tight black dress and heels, can you get rid of the shoes fast and hit they guy or girl with them? Do you have a strong repetoire of techniques for elbows, heel palms, throat strikes, etc. (we are not talking boxing or sparring here?) If not re-evaluate your style, you may not need to leave it, but you may need to supplement it with some hours in a boxing gym or some nice tame Kenpo classes (ok so I am biased, at least I admit it.)

Just one opinion, there are lots out there.
Oss,
-Michael

Originally posted by thesensei
just a thought...that was the first thing my instructor always addressed when teaching women's self-defense. he taught women to take the heels off. make it instinctive. they become great weapons when held in the hands!! whit a skirt...don't know - i've never worn one;) but, if you wear that a lot, work out that way! practice low kicks to the knee, shin, and top of foot. hehe...make 'em regret attacking you!!

:samurai: :samurai:

I agree that taking off the heels can turn them into effective stabbing weapons.

However, while keeping your heels on, do not doubt the effectiveness of a heel stomp to the top of the attacker's foot.

A quarter of all the bones in the human body are located in the feet which means that there are a lot of small ones that break relatively easily. A heel stomp with a high heel shoe can focus your entire body weight through the pointy heel of your shoe.

This can set up a double-impact attack to the head (eg. an inward elbow) from the attacker's natural reaction of bending forward. It can also stop him from chasing you as it's sorta hard to run after someone when you've got a freshly broken foot.

Just a suggestion.

now I have only worn heals once (I was in a play in 3rd grade) and they were a little big for me, so the question of the comfort of the shoe comes to mind, I'm talking about the ones with pointy toes, can you realy fight in em or are your toes to tightly packed?

Originally posted by sweeper
now I have only worn heals once (I was in a play in 3rd grade) and they were a little big for me, so the question of the comfort of the shoe comes to mind, I'm talking about the ones with pointy toes, can you realy fight in em or are your toes to tightly packed?

I'd say that pointy toes could be good for groin kicks but couldn't say for sure.

There is a great scene from a Jackie Chan movie - 'Who Am I?' where he fights using shoes very effectively.

yeah but that's a movie, have you ever put your foot in one of those things? they aren't very comfortable ;-) not to mention you get no grip, it would be next to imposable to sprint in them and probably would be hard to kick (maintain balance)

I duno, maybe if you get used to them it would be easyer.

you get great grip if you do what I do...

paint the bottoms of your heels with rubber cement. You get the same kind of traction you'd get in a tennis shoe then.

Perhaps all you ladies should ask your instructor to do a class wearing a long skirt and heels.

I would guess even doing forms might be a different experience, let alone techniques.

Les

Originally posted by Les
Perhaps all you ladies should ask your instructor to do a class wearing a long skirt and heels.

I would guess even doing forms might be a different experience, let alone techniques.

Les

Thinking Seig would look pretty strange in a long skirt.. oops that's not whatcha meant eh Les.. *G*

Gee one of our visiting BB's wears his Hakama pants and he's always getting his legs tied up when sparring.. kicking and such.. so maybe we should try a sparring class in skirts :)
I, myself don't wear dresses or skirts unless I'm forced to.. keep me in comfy kickable clothes and I'm happy.. :)

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Thinking Seig would look pretty strange in a long skirt.. oops that's not whatcha meant eh Les..

Actually Tess, thats exactly what I meant. :)

Not that I've tried it myself, but it's easy to stand there and say 'Well, you could do this, you could do that'. But if you haven't been there you are only talking theory.

I encourage my female students to give me feedback as to what will or won't work when they're 'dressed to the nines'

Les

Originally posted by Les
Actually Tess, thats exactly what I meant. :)

Not that I've tried it myself, but it's easy to stand there and say 'Well, you could do this, you could do that'. But if you haven't been there you are only talking theory.

I encourage my female students to give me feedback as to what will or won't work when they're 'dressed to the nines'

Les

Oh Ok Les.. *chortles.. we have street clothes night once in awhile.. most come in what they wear when they go out for the evening.. tight jeans are the most prevalent dress code and 99% of our student body is college students.. luckily none have shown up in those dreadful baggy .. crotch of the pants hanging to the knees things~!!

I have worn everything from baggy pants, to tight pants, to kilts. I have trained and fought in cowboy boots(as close as I will get to heels). The clothes can restrict you to a point. IF they do, alter your attack to fit the situation. Nothing wrong with a low level kick.

so maybe we should try a sparring class in skirts



I'd like to see the look on the prospective student's face who wandered into class that day :p

Being told that every once in a while we would be having class in street clothes really caught my attention. I feel that it is really great and benificial to the student. Especially for younger students. It makes them realize that your uniform/gi is not what makes you a martial artist and that you are just as capable of defending yourself in a uniform as you are in high heels and a skirt, or cowboy books. Putting on a uniform all the time is almost "brain-washing", not literally but you think differently when you're first starting out about what makes you able to defend yourself. I find that when we have new students come in and see us once out of a blue moon in street clothes they are like "wow, you can actually kick in those pants." I love their expressions, then that makes them interested too.

I was more specifically referring to the idea of a class being held where both men and women were wearing skirts.

For the record I do really like the idea of training in street clothes.

Anyone here get a psychological boost from your gi/training cloathing?

I know for some reason I play soccer better when wearing cleats and soccer shorts.. Kinda funny ;) but I'm not that way with sparring gear.

Originally posted by sweeper
Anyone here get a psychological boost from your gi/training cloathing?

Over the years I have noticed that beginners always seem to get a boost when they first get their uniform. (My beginners start wearing loose comfortable clothing)

I feel that it is a mental feeling of actually 'belonging' to the group when the are dressed the same as them.

They also seem to get a boost of motivation as well.

Les

Let's revisit this thread..:)

In our courses, i get students that wear skirts often to train in them, most techniques are possible, but skirts will be damaged and your modesty maybe put on show, which can ihbibit some from performing certain techniques, but if your life is on the line, do what is necessary

In our courses, i get students that wear skirts often to train in them, most techniques are possible, but skirts will be damaged and your modesty maybe put on show, which can ihbibit some from performing certain techniques, but if your life is on the line, do what is necessary


Modesty be danged. Just wear a good pair of bike shorts or workout outfit, under the skirt.

This way, modesty does not come into play during pratice.

I've always wondered how I'd fare in my work clothes, which do unfortunately include skirts and pantyhose, also, I'm usually carrying a bag. I generally wear flats, though, and the shoes I wear to class are the same or very similar to the ones I wear to work. But I think the skirt and hose and my hair being loose rather than braided might constrict my movements. The few times I didn't braid my hair but just tied it back into a ponytail, it wound up getting accidentally pulled quite a bit.
I would like to try it but I don't know how my classmates would feel about it, to tell you the truth, I'd be a little embarrassed. I mean, I could wear shorts underneath my skirt and I guess it would be no different than when I wear shorts in the summertime but I still would feel strange showing up for class in my work clothes. The guys hardly recognize me the few times I've had to come straight from work.
Well, it's definitely something to consider and maybe discuss with my instructor.
Regards,
Rachel

Anyone else remember the kicking jeans they used to sell

I do..Does that make me old??

Modesty be danged. Just wear a good pair of bike shorts or workout outfit, under the skirt.

This way, modesty does not come into play during pratice.


I actually ment in a situation, it still happens


the girls that wear skirts all wear leggings or cycle shorts underneath when training

To truly be able to defend yourself, you must be able to apply the techniques you learn in class to real-life situations - that means in your accustomed clothing and shoes, not just in workout gear.

I've never tried self-defense in a skirt... but then, I go to work in jeans and sneakers, and I can't remember the last time I wore a skirt; it's been at least several years, so for me, it's not generally relevant. Still, between my safety and my modesty - modesty will go out the window.

As far as heels go, well... it's been longer since I wore heels than since I wore a skirt (if I must wear a skirt, I wear flats), but there are some advantages - if you are wearing dress sandals, kick them off; if they stay on, stamp on your attacker's instep with the spike heel... just be prepared for the possibility that the heel may break off - if you're lucky, it will break off in your attacker's foot.

well, does showing off count? lol i was at church in a skirt and i found out that one of the other members did TKD and we were showing off and playing around tap/tag sparring kind of, and he made the comment that he thinks he could kick higher hten me and so i said ok go for it and he kicked, i kicked and i ripped out my skirt ..like right up to my butt ...so practicing in skirts may not be so great unless oyu have afew to spair, but kicking and ripping out the hem wasnt that difficult, nor was moving around when we where tagging eachother