Final Fu

[hongkongfooey]

After seeing this show I can now understand why people don't take the martial arts seriously. The McDojo trend has ruined the MA's in america, this show doesn't help.

[evenflow1121]

I watched that XMA guy on Friday perform a half assed attempt at both a Drunken Form and what I guess he thought he was performing some Monkey style, I thought to myself there is no way my Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut buddies could watch this crap sober.

[MMAfighter]

isn't XMA suppose to be made for entertainment??

[Shaolinwind]

I watched that XMA guy on Friday perform a half assed attempt at both a Drunken Form and what I guess he thought he was performing some Monkey style, I thought to myself there is no way my Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut buddies could watch this crap sober.

Aren't drunken forms generally something a martial arts master learns? I've never heard of intermediate/advanced drunken forms.

[painstain]

all they are doing is fighting traditional point sparring, i don't see why you think thats bad. its safe and allows veiwers to see clean technique. whats wrong with that. sure its not spikes ultimate fighter. it allows people to see what we actually do. i really don't see why people here don't like it.
people act like a forth dan is a big deal, on the show, the forth dan is the most uncontrolled. i seen drunken boxing. monkey stylekung fu. good tkd and hapkido... what don't you like. is it too soft...

[evenflow1121]

Aren't drunken forms generally something a martial arts master learns? I've never heard of intermediate/advanced drunken forms.

From my understanding no, Choi Lay Fut has Joi Baat Seen Kuen and I believe that is one of the rarest forms in the system. Other systems however do incorporate the drunken sets at lower levels. Hung Gar, believe it or not, depending on the lineage can have some monkey in it. You prob know more about this since you practice Kung Fu, I only crosstrained in Southern Kung fu Briefly for about 3 years or so.

all they are doing is fighting traditional point sparring, i don't see why you think thats bad. its safe and allows veiwers to see clean technique. whats wrong with that. sure its not spikes ultimate fighter. it allows people to see what we actually do. i really don't see why people here don't like it.
people act like a forth dan is a big deal, on the show, the forth dan is the most uncontrolled. i seen drunken boxing. monkey stylekung fu. good tkd and hapkido... what don't you like. is it too soft...

I am not particulary critical of the sparring, yes the sparring is too soft for my taste, but to each his own. I am however critical of people making a mockery of systems they do not understand, sort of like I start doing back flips in the middle of a competition and acting like some Hollywood Ninja and calling it Ninjutsu. To anyone that has never seen a drunken form I am sure that looked well like to what most people are exposed to that read about them in magazines or play video games or what not, but to anyone that has seen someone actually perform it, all I can tell you is that what that dude did was not drunken boxing, sorry if I am being too blunt.

[painstain]

i see what your saying however i don't get the point. they have rules to follow, thats why its soft. who here can't follow rules. when i watch ufc, i don't see any style other than a slug fest with some sloppy kicks. when i watch pride its the same. so i would rather see point sparring and tell the diff between styles than watch a couple of guys hit each other with no technique what so ever. well a little tech in stance, but other than that i think the "final fu" is closer to most martial arts than we all would like to admit

with respect,
painstain

[painstain]

I watched that XMA guy on Friday perform a half assed attempt at both a Drunken Form and what I guess he thought he was performing some Monkey style, I thought to myself there is no way my Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut buddies could watch this crap sober.



i'd like to see how they do in a controlled enviroment like point sparring. what do you think?
i'm sure they are skilled otherwise you would not have mentioned them. seems to me most on this site can't control themselves in point sparring. just my opinion though.



with respect,
painstain

[hongkongfooey]

all they are doing is fighting traditional point sparring, i don't see why you think thats bad. its safe and allows veiwers to see clean technique. whats wrong with that. sure its not spikes ultimate fighter. it allows people to see what we actually do. i really don't see why people here don't like it.
people act like a forth dan is a big deal, on the show, the forth dan is the most uncontrolled. i seen drunken boxing. monkey stylekung fu. good tkd and hapkido... what don't you like. is it too soft...


I am not seeing the same things that you are. I see sloppy basic techniques by people fighting from a side horse stance, while their hands are hanging at their sides. Keep your hands up! Others dancing around with their leg in the air hoping their opponet will run into it for a point.

Stop of the darned kiai nonsense with every little movement. Breathe.

Whats with all of the screaming before the sparring matches?

Why not punch to the head? There is headgear they could wear that would absorb pretty hard blows, like good leather boxing head gear.
There is safety gear available today that makes hard contact training easier for all involved. All of the I'm too deadly to spar hard contact way of thinking is pure McDojo.

The XMA guy is too egotistical for his own good. I hope he knows that Vegeta and Goku are just characters from Dragon Ball Z. He doesn't need to have the hair and the little arm bands to partake in the LARP(live action role playing).

One of the girls said that it was too dangerous to punch high. Nonsense. Though, I can see why she said that. She kept her hands tucked neatly at her midsection the whole time she was sparring. No need to protect your head when you know there is no chance of a blow coming anywhere near it.

This type of show is just another nail in the coffin of martial arts in America. All the show needs now is Michelle Krasnoo in her halter top(that she had to remove for er own safety) and a 10 year old 8th dan with a glow in the dark staff.

Pure McDojo, nothing else.

[tradrockrat]

Somebody help this uninformed fool to understand - what are we talking about?

I take it this is some TV show that I've never heard of. When and where is it on?

Thanks for the info. - Trad

[Brandon Fisher]

It is a pure joke. Ernie Reyes Jr. has such a great background I can't figure how he got wrapped up into this. Same thing with Matt Mullins. At first I thought this isn't as bad as I thought so I watched it again the next day and watched it closer and my opinion changed.

[hongkongfooey]

The show is on MTV2 on cable or satellite.

[FearlessFreep]

I thought to myself there is no way my Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut buddies could watch this crap sober.

That brings up the idea of watching the show with some sorta "Final Fu Drinking Game" or giving it the MST3K treatment....because it's really too silly to watch with any seriousness. \

Like I said in another thread, the winner of the round seems to end up being the one who first figures out that you can rack up mucho points by just rushing in and slapping as fast as you can. (At one point in one match I had a sudden realization.."It's Dexter and Mandark!!!")

[evenflow1121]

i'd like to see how they do in a controlled enviroment like point sparring. what do you think?
i'm sure they are skilled otherwise you would not have mentioned them. seems to me most on this site can't control themselves in point sparring. just my opinion though.

with respect,
painstain

I mentioned it because I saw what he was trying to attempt, and as far as skills go, like i said there is nothing in XMA that incorporates Monkey or Drunken Form, he has no skills when it comes to that. Another thing, you seem to assume that all point sparring is like this, or that this is more of a realistic approach to modern sparring. You are wrong on both accounts, in most point sparring matches hits to the face are allowed, second please do not assume how everyone else approaches tourneys. Coming from a striking art, primarily I ve never done pt fighting, and neither have many of the people here, like wise, most of the ones that do on this site are allowed to hit the face as well. That Final Fu is a game of tag. I ve never been in a tournament where people drop their guards, keep their hands down, hold their pants with their hands, then again, all they have to worry about is covering the body, and most of them can not even do that right. I ll give Brian some credit, the TKD guy that went up against Matt at least his kicks seem to have some power in them when executed, sure he got disqualified that stuff happens, the rest of it however is pure nonsense.

[painstain]

your right. i was making dumb assumptions based on others remarks. and these paople on the show are not the best representation of their system. but i like it because its not like ufc or pride. there are enough of those out there. not every sparring match looks great i agree. but there were a few that looked decent to me but i've only seen the show three times so you all know more about it than me anyways. what i did see was kind of refreshing to me. the system i'm in allows hard contact and head punches but we are required to wear gear. we also train with children and elderly and are forced to practice control. thats the part i like about the show, those who can control themselves and aren't just running in and throwing flurries. its hard to spar with so many restrictions but its good training in my own opinion. i just wouldn't be so judgemental and count all those people out. they have to hold back but i'm sure a lot of them are great martial artists. i try to see myself there and how i would act and fight and do the challenges.

with respect,
painstain

[evenflow1121]

Thats a great point, and I never said you were making a dumb assumption, your opinion and interpretation is as valid and as good as mine or any body else's.

Regards,

[Brandon Fisher]

I know a guy who fights with his hands down or low where head and face contact is allowed but this guy is way fast. But he would tear these people apart.

[funnytiger]

I found the show disappointing based on its lack of diverse fighting styles. Everyone on there takes some form of tae kwon do or karate. I would of liked to see some CMA or MT etc...

evenflow1121: Although I don't take Hung Ga myself, it is a sister style to the one I do take. I have never heard of any monkey in Hung Ga, not saying it doesn't exist, but where did you take Hung Ga and who was your Sifu? My exposure to pure Hung Ga is limited, mind you. Most of what I know is based on our systems interpretations and my association with folks who do take it.

Any info would be much appreciated!


- ft

[Marginal]

all they are doing is fighting traditional point sparring, i don't see why you think thats bad. its safe and allows veiwers to see clean technique.

Still doesn't explain the no head kicks rule. In traditional point sparring systems, that's usually allowed. "Clean technique" to me doesn't mean slapping someone 32 times on the belly button.

[Brandon Fisher]

I haven't seen that clean of technique.

[AceHBK]

Thread is also located here..

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36412

[seal]

Wow, this show is REALLY awful. The fighting is laughable. Who would fight like this in a real fight? This is why people dont' take martial arts seriously and I can't blame those people.

[wowzer77]

I despise this show completely. It makes Martial Arts look like a joke.

[Fluffy]

As I mentioned on the other thread. I have stopped watching it, and I'll recommend my students do the same. Vote with your TV's and give'm some bad ratings.

On the show itself: Good concept, very bad execution.

[ronin_warrior_j]

I dont see everybodys problem with the show. With so many Martial Arts schools having to close down due to lack of students. I think its great that theres a show that will peak the interest of the demagraphic it was ment for, thus upping enrollment rates due to new found interests in the martial arts. I can remember being 14 years old in 1993 and taking Kachido Aikijitsu class in a school that taught alot of other arts. The Power Ranger boom had just hit and i ended up having to help out with the karate classes due to the enormous sizes. What im trying to say is that these shows are ment for entertainment not as a guide to the martial arts.

[Kempojujutsu]

As for the show it self, I find it intersting. I think it helps promote martial arts in general. At least to the young adults who would be watching it on MTV. As for the sparring, there are many things I wouldn't be doing. I would like to see them allowed head contact. These are adults sparring, not young kids (5-12). Put some head gear on and put boxing gloves on and have semi contact. Tonights show has a Kempo guy fighting. I would like to see his fighting skills and how he would fight someone who does TKD.

If you are a school owner and someone came into your school to sign-up. They wanted to do martial arts because of this show on MTV. Would you like the show then? And like Ronin Warrior said
these shows are ment for entertainment not as a guide to the martial arts. You have to be able to seperate entertainment from what would happen in a real fight.

[Fluffy]

As I said, it was a great concept. But there are many parts of the show that are not a great testimony of these martial artists. From bad ego's, to bending and even breaking rules (calls to the integrity of the individual) and some very sloppy techniques from some who have skill, but the show has to many issues to be a good example of martial arts.

I'm a school owner, I was a part of the Karate Kid influx of students (1985) and I remember the turtles and the rangers: big impact from positive shows. I love to see more students. But not at the expense of my values, and this show teaches little but Jr. loves a winner; no value at all.

Sport - Sport - Sport; is all I see, no tenants, just points - and allot of them wins the prize.

Great concept, badly executed.

[ronin_warrior_j]

As I said, it was a great concept. But there are many parts of the show that are not a great testimony of these martial artists. From bad ego's, to bending and even breaking rules (calls to the integrity of the individual) and some very sloppy techniques from some who have skill, but the show has to many issues to be a good example of martial arts.

I'm a school owner, I was a part of the Karate Kid influx of students (1985) and I remember the turtles and the rangers: big impact from positive shows. I love to see more students. But not at the expense of my values, and this show teaches little but Jr. loves a winner; no value at all.

Sport - Sport - Sport; is all I see, no tenants, just points - and allot of them wins the prize.

Great concept, badly executed.

Yeah there is rule breaking, but there is also repercussions for the broken rules. To me that shows a young kid that may be watching that you cant be an a**hole and be honorable at the same time. Im not saying that the show is perfect. I hate the no head contact thing, but in a way thats kind of good because it shows the viewers that you have to have restraint in certiant areas of the martial arts. Maybe this show is more well designed than we all think.

[AceHBK]

They need to put on some head gear and start making some contact. This looks terrible. Entertaining to a point but yes it looks sloppy at times and if they are MAists then put on some head gear and take a shot.

[Odin]

Aren't drunken forms generally something a martial arts master learns? I've never heard of intermediate/advanced drunken forms.

I thought drunken forms were made up.....after the film.

[AceHBK]

I will say that people say that there isnt any good technique in the matches but in how many sparring matches do u really see "great" technique executed effectively? Technique can look great when u practice alone but against another person it is a different matter.

[matt.m]

I think the fight last night was pretty decent. Night before is about the same. You have to look at this show for what it is, just flashy commercialisation.

I am sure everyone on the show has talent, I like the challenges during the show. I think the show is just trying to promote MA, however they are doing it differently than the UFC.

[RevIV]

Ok, i was looking way to far into the heading, being out of it i guess i have been reading all of these threads going to myself -- well what am i missing here? what is the title of this show? this makes no sense. I thought you were making a joke useing the title "Final Fu" i kept seeing "Final F.U." and you was like wow they are mad at this. But no, that is the title. def. makes me laugh, i will have to catch the show sometime
In Peace,
Jesse

[Andy Moynihan]

I've only ever watched part of one episode. It's as an earlier poster very aptly said, I couldn't stomach watching it sober.

It doesn't help my opinion of these shows that at least one of them is hosted on MTV.

It doesn't help my opinion of these shows that I am of the belief that the subject of martial arts is strictly and only for students thereof, and not the intellectually bankrupt, idly curious or voyeuristic( that is to say almost the entire Television-Viewing United States).


It doesn't help my opinion of these shows that I don't believe martial arts are for children, and certainly that the duty of any martial arts school is to train its students in *all* philosophical/physical/combative aspects of whatever art is taught. NOT to serve as an overglorified day care center.

It does not help my opinion of these shows that they popularize the image of Martial Arts in the public mind that we ought to be endeavoring to destroy( that of the McDojo syndrome).

McDojo's have ruined the reputation of Martial Arts in this country. These shows do nothing but worsen it.


Better that the martial arts should die out completely than be reduced to this.

[painstain]

i watched tonight and was not impressed.
and in response to someone elses response, i would teach to anyone for free if i wasn't in the system i'm in. perhaps to some people, the poor don't deserve a full rich life of martial arts. maybe its because the way they dress or smell or act that some don't think its ok to teach for an affordable price to all, but i think if people like what they see they may actually join martial arts. and i love to teach, i don't care about money i care about enriching the lives of others. i'll be one of the starving instructors that beleives people can change their life through martial arts. maybe itsbecause it happened to me. i don't know. many would be very surprised by what i pay for my two oldest sons and wife and i to train as many days in a week that we want. sorry i went off the subject

with respect,
painstain

[AceHBK]

Tonight's last match was the best that I have seen so far since the show started. Excellent technique by far. Karate vs. TKD and Karate won. Both put on a seminar on how to execute excellent kicks in a sparring match.

[AceHBK]

i watched tonight and was not impressed.
and in response to someone elses response, i would teach to anyone for free if i wasn't in the system i'm in. perhaps to some people, the poor don't deserve a full rich life of martial arts. maybe its because the way they dress or smell or act that some don't think its ok to teach for an affordable price to all, but i think if people like what they see they may actually join martial arts. and i love to teach, i don't care about money i care about enriching the lives of others. i'll be one of the starving instructors that beleives people can change their life through martial arts. maybe itsbecause it happened to me. i don't know. many would be very surprised by what i pay for my two oldest sons and wife and i to train as many days in a week that we want. sorry i went off the subject

with respect,
painstain

Funny u bring that up. I went into a TKD dojang today and they wanted $1800/month for lessons. 2x a week. Owner said they do 4months, 8 months and 12 months. Of course shorter the commitment more money it costs.

$1800/MONTH!!! lol 5 Dan teaching the class was very damn good, but not $1800/month damn good.

[Fluffy]

Funny u bring that up. I went into a TKD dojang today and they wanted $1800/month for lessons. 2x a week. Owner said they do 4months, 8 months and 12 months. Of course shorter the commitment more money it costs.

$1800/MONTH!!! lol 5 Dan teaching the class was very damn good, but not $1800/month damn good.

That's a new high for me! Are you sure he was not offering 1800 for 6 months? And that's still high at 300/month. My wife does not believe you......:whip:

[painstain]

agian sorry this is not on the subject.

where i started it was ten a month per student. my wife and two sons and i do it for 35 a month and have access to classes every day of the week.
almost can't wait to see what others think of that.

with respect,
painstain

[matt.m]

That's a new high for me! Are you sure he was not offering 1800 for 6 months? And that's still high at 300/month. My wife does not believe you......:whip:

Geez, that is ridiculous. My school cost 40 a month for tae kwon do. 50 if you take hapkido as well.

[matt.m]

Oh sorry, I watched tonight as well. The core training challenge was cool

[Hand Sword]

http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif Tournament point fighting has better, more realistic fights.

[AceHBK]

That's a new high for me! Are you sure he was not offering 1800 for 6 months? And that's still high at 300/month. My wife does not believe you......:whip:

lol..yup 1800/12 months.
There wasnt too much left to say after that.

[Ignignokt]

I am not seeing the same things that you are. I see sloppy basic techniques by people fighting from a side horse stance, while their hands are hanging at their sides. Keep your hands up! Others dancing around with their leg in the air hoping their opponet will run into it for a point.
I agree.
It seems like their only defense is keeping their arms closely pressed against their chest while trying to keep their distance and they usually completely drop their defense while attacking. "Keep your arms out and move in as your opponent kicks!!!!" Basic stuff.
And when someone uses the same move over and over and over...ad infinitum, their opponent never seems to catch on.
I feel sorry for the contestants on this show because all of their training was obviously a waste.

[cpoints]

I don't care if it's an insult or not.I think it's fun to watch.I cheer for my favs and yell at the T.V. like everyone else!!!

[JasonASmith]

I just got finished watching a few of the shows(a marathon, I guess), and I must say that I am somewhat sick to my stomach right now...
This show goes against everything that I view M.A. to be, but hey, if you like it, go ahead...
As for me, I'm done...

[evenflow1121]

I really like the way Ernie Reyes Jr. says "Final Fu" I mean he says it so seriously. Almost reminds me of "You are the weakest link..Good Bye". .

[matt.m]

I watched the one last night (Friday). You know tournament point fighting is so much cooler. To me it takes so much away when you take feet to the head away.